HMV closing (again)

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Well Its not a Film thread as such but this is bad news for some

I am one who likes to have a physical copy of a film, I have them all on display

So the only retailers to sell Blu Rays/ DVDs are Tower Records, and Xtravision

Does anyone buy online using Amazon,Play?

Anyway a linky to the source - LINKY


Update July 2016:

They are closing again. See this post.

Rabidlamb

Sad to see jobs go, difficult to survive when your main product can be got so easily for free.
I'm as much to blame as any consumer can be for opting for the free model.

There was a track years ago which played when Mark Greene died in ER, it was a ukelele version of Somewhere Over The Rainbow.
My girlfriend at the time loved it & wanted a copy, HMV charged me €22 for the CD which was filler crap except to this one track.
I swore that day I'd never be rodded like that again.

The staff have my sympathy, hope nobody is left high & dry with vouchers.

RobertFoster

flowrider04 wrote: »

Does anyone buy online using Amazon,Play?

Amazon are good. Play.com, however, will be closing in March.

It'll be sad to see HMV go.

DjFlin

Never shopped in HMV myself, but people losing jobs is always sad.

Amazon is where I go for my blu rays. They're usually good value. Free shipping most of the time too.

Scar Tissue

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Sad to see jobs go, difficult to survive when your main product can be got so easily for free.
I'm as much to blame as any consumer can be for opting for the free model.

The staff have my sympathy, hope nobody is left high & dry with vouchers.

I'd almost blame those daylight robbery prices as much as the digital downloads.

While I don't have a source, someone told me UK staff were told not to accept vouchers from today onwards.

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Scar Tissue wrote: »

I'd almost blame those daylight robbery prices as much as the digital downloads.

While I don't have a source, someone told me UK staff were told not to accept vouchers from today onwards.

I have also heard that too luckily I spent my last voucher on Saturday.

Sad that over 300 jobs could be gone

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DjFlin wrote: »

Never shopped in HMV myself, but people losing jobs is always sad.

Amazon is where I go for my blu rays. They're usually good value. Free shipping most of the time too.

If you buy a few and they are dispatched from Amazon, do they come in one box or multiple boxes?

maximoose

flowrider04 wrote: »

If you buy a few and they are dispatched from Amazon, do they come in one box or multiple boxes?

There's an option at checkout to have everything dispatched together.

DjFlin

flowrider04 wrote: »

If you buy a few and they are dispatched from Amazon, do they come in one box or multiple boxes?

You'll be given the following options when you're at the checkout:

*Group my items into as few shipments as possible
or
*I want my items faster. Ship them as soon as they become available


So yeah, you can have sent in the one box. The second option is generally for if one of the products you're ordering is out of stock, and you want the other ones ASAP. Obviously, the second option will end up costing more, because you'll have to pay for shipping.


When you're buying on Amazon, try to buy from Amazon themselves, not a third party seller. That way, if your order is over £25, you get free Super-Saver Shipping.

Sad Professor

Amazon won't be so good if they get a monopoly. The demise of Play is particularly bad news in this regard since Amazon price matched with them. There's all the smaller online retailers, but I can't see them being able to stand up to Amazon. Of course, there's limits to how much Amazon can increase prices without pushing customers to piracy, but whatever way you look at this is bad news for people who buy films.

Anyway, it's important to point out that going into administration is not the same thing as closing down. Someone may step in and buy HMV or some of it. The place where I work went into administration a couple of years ago as well. It's still here and I still have a job.

Tipsy McSwagger

I only ever use Amazon. It's funny because they have so much competition in the US but hardly any in the UK/ROI. They are actually a decent company and I don't expect a big increase in prices.

Theboinkmaster

I buy all my stuff either on play or hmv so disappointed about this. No way will i ever shop in Tower Records. Dark Knight Rises was €27 on blu there before xmas, while €17 in Tesco.

Lack of options will actually push more people to piracy perhaps?

juan.kerr

Tipsy McSwagger wrote: »

I only ever use Amazon. It's funny because they have so much competition in the US but hardly any in the UK/ROI. They are actually a decent company and I don't expect a big increase in prices.

I use amazon very regularly, prices are competitive, this scaremongering sbout amazon increasing prices is ridiculous. I doubt HMV are even on their radar, they had become that irrelevant.

blue note

Scar Tissue wrote: »

While I don't have a source, someone told me UK staff were told not to accept vouchers from today onwards.

I imagine they have been told not to sell vouchers from today onwards. They'd be lynched if they were still operating and not accepting vouchers.

Sad news for the employees for sure. And also, I liked popping in for a browse. I don't enjoy browsing as much at home on the PC. I also think it takes an element of the randomness out of what you'll stumble upon, which is not a good thing.

Fysh

I'm kind of surprised to see nobody's mentioned Zavvi - they're not as good as Play or Amazon (by a good bit) but they're still a sizeable contender and an alternative option to Amazon once Play close down their retail option.

I feel sorry for anyone with vouchers, that's why I bloody hate the things.

I havent bought anything there in years. I get Blurays from Amazon mostly, Zavvi or Play the odd time when they're cheaper.

Zavvi sometimes have good value, I got some Bluray triple-packs for €8.10 shipped just before xmas, less than €3 per movie. Good ones too, Casino, Carlitos Way, Green Zone etc. At that kind of price i'll buy something even if i've already pirated it.

Paddytheman

blue note wrote: »

I imagine they have been told not to sell vouchers from today onwards. They'd be lynched if they were still operating and not accepting vouchers.

Sad news for the employees for sure. And also, I liked popping in for a browse. I don't enjoy browsing as much at home on the PC. I also think it takes an element of the randomness out of what you'll stumble upon, which is not a good thing.

Not actually accepting vouchers already, how the hell can a company operate if refusing?!?

I'd be walking in selecting my purchases and dropping my voucher on the counter on the way out, ridiculous!

Sad Professor

Paddytheman wrote: »

Not actually accepting vouchers already, how the hell can a company operate if refusing?!?

I'd be walking in selecting my purchases and dropping my voucher on the counter on the way out, ridiculous!

Let us know how that works out for you.

airplane1

flowrider04 wrote: »

Well Its not a Film thread as such but this is bad news for some

I am one who likes to have a physical copy of a film, I have them all on display

So the only retailers to sell Blu Rays/ DVDs are Tower Records, and Xtravision

Does anyone buy online using Amazon,Play?

Anyway a linky to the source - LINKY

It's sad to see hmv go, does anyone know
If anyone will take over.

Mickeroo

blue note wrote: »

I imagine they have been told not to sell vouchers from today onwards. They'd be lynched if they were still operating and not accepting vouchers.

Sad news for the employees for sure. And also, I liked popping in for a browse. I don't enjoy browsing as much at home on the PC. I also think it takes an element of the randomness out of what you'll stumble upon, which is not a good thing.

Yeah surely they have to accept vouchers still? Otherwise they've essentially stole money off people.

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Mickeroo wrote: »

Yeah surely they have to accept vouchers still? Otherwise they've essentially stole money off people.

HMV have confirmed NO Vouchers will be accepted.

http://www.newstalk.ie/HMV-confirms-they-will-not-accept-gift-vouchers

phasers

HMV definitely aren't accepting vouchers, there's a thread in Consumer Issues about it.

Will they still have an online presence like Zavvi I wonder? I feel bad for the staff but their prices just aren't competitive, especially on new release titles.

InchicoreDude

I'm a fan of HMV. I have picked up a lot of good movies for 3.99 in there down through the years. Most of these movies have been films that I did not intend to buy, but just came across while browsing. Something that I would not have bought by shopping online. When I buy things online, it is when I am looking for something specific.

Piracy is so easily obtained now by the average person, that it is going to eventually affect the quality of shows being produced. I am 29 and buy most products. But I see the interns in my workplace at the moment who are around 20-21. And they never buy these things. Downloading all the way for them. Quite simply, if you dont pay for it, how can you pay the actors / writers etc.? They dont come up with money out of thin air for these things. The internet is a great thing, but the piracy on it is the worst part of it. It should be clamped down on more to ensure the survival of places like HMV.

Mickeroo

flowrider04 wrote: »

HMV have confirmed NO Vouchers will be accepted.

http://www.newstalk.ie/HMV-confirms-they-will-not-accept-gift-vouchers

Wow, sounds illegal to me.

maximoose

InchicoreDude wrote: »

It should be clamped down on more to ensure the survival of places like HMV.

Piracy is an issue, but it was never the only one affecting HMV. Sure they had plenty of €1.99 bargains now and then - but they had a LOT of massively overpriced crap, ridiculous prices on TV box sets, inconsistent prices between stores, no online shop for Ireland, and regards to film were hardly ever the cheapest for new releases. If they can't compete on price, they were never gonna survive.

The only thing I'll miss if the stores close is their games dept, seemed to be going a good job there.

krudler

Fcuk! I have a 50 quid one

melekalikimaka

Mickeroo wrote: »

Wow, sounds illegal to me.

not if you read the t&c on the vouchers sadly, perfectly legal

max life

They should have given customers a few days to use up their vouchers when they went into administration

Sad Professor

It doesn't work like that. Secured creditors come first. Gift card holders just have to get in line. However if the vouchers were purchased with credit card get onto your bank and they can do a charge back.

Kinski

Like a lot of people, I enjoy browsing there more than buying there, which is the sad reality faced by high-street retailers of these sorts of products. Lately, whenever I find myself in these stores I inevitably whip out the phone to find out not if the same product is cheaper online, but by how much.

It could yet be bought out and survive a few more years, but in the longer term the likes of HMV are doomed anyhow.

Sad Professor

HMV's prices have improved a lot recently, though. They have an excellent selection of titles in their 5 for €35 deal, which works out far better value in most cases than buying online. Their exchange rate seems pretty good as well, less in many cases than the UK price.

johnny_ultimate

A lot of hysteria about vouchers and the like - a temporary freeze is pretty par for the course when it comes to administration. It's hard to call what way its going to go - I know I'd be very surprised with instantaneous closure or liquidation - but I'd wait a few days or weeks to see how the situation plays out before going in and robbing stuff from the shelves as remuneration. Actually, I wouldn't advise doing that at all even if the ultimate HMV firesale is announced. I'd say they'll try and make the business more efficient first and foremost - like Game, HMV in the UK particularly would be guilty of having multiple stores in the same high streets / shopping centres just to keep their high-profile presence. I can see them lasting a few more years if they close some of the more redundant or less profitable stores.

Barring the occasional impulse buy, I'd have to concede its been a while since HMV were my main source of DVD purchases - largely because its world and independent sections tend to a) cater to a very specific type of 'niche' and b) to be overpriced compared to their mass-purchased & dirt cheap titles (plus a familiar selection of popular world titles). That's inevitable, really - Amazon's catalogue is much vaster for titles that wouldn't be profitable in the limited retail space of HMV in the same way 3.99 copies of Step Brothers would be. Still, they remain competitive for new releases, and 5 for 35 Blu-Ray deals and the like offered something even online retailers don't. A company can't live off impulse buys, though.

More than anything, its a shame for gamers, as HMV are by far the most attractively priced retailer in that area. Smyths are decent too, but having already overpriced Gamestop as the only major games retailer left on major shopping streets is a tad worrying.

Sad Professor

In the case of the company being liquidated, I'd imagine stock will be going back to suppliers. It's very unlikely HMV own most of it under current agreements. So no closing down sale.

DjFlin

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Piracy is so easily obtained now by the average person, that it is going to eventually affect the quality of shows being produced. I am 29 and buy most products. But I see the interns in my workplace at the moment who are around 20-21. And they never buy these things. Downloading all the way for them. Quite simply, if you dont pay for it, how can you pay the actors / writers etc.? They dont come up with money out of thin air for these things. The internet is a great thing, but the piracy on it is the worst part of it. It should be clamped down on more to ensure the survival of places like HMV.

Yes piracy is an issue, but not the only one. Or even the biggest one.

The business model is changing, and its getting harder for brick & mortar stores to keep up.

I used to love going to HMV to get the bargin 3.99 DVD's, but now Netflix has most of those movies for €7 a month on demand. Its hard to stick with HMV for that.

Then we get to the pricier products. Last time I was in HMV i was looking at the Lord Of The Rings blu ray box set. It was €45, Amazon had it for 12 Pounds (So about €16). Its hard not to go with Amazon.

On top of that, I've alway kind of disliked HMV because of how they tend to sell used games at almost the same price as new. But thats not just HMV, GameStop (and Game when they were still around) are just as guilty of that.

wampyrus77

its sad to HMV to see them go, Its was my favourite music and games retailer, its was cheaper for games then gamestop,
the music was cheaper there then tower records and Golden Discs

Now where am I going to go to figure out what movies to download next?

wampyrus77

the best place to buy Wii u console

FloatingVoter

It was an out of date business model that failed to compete with the times. Easons is full of people buying books despite those being readily downloadable. HMV had overheads that Amazon and iTunes simply don't need to worry about.
Having the physical copy of the music made no sense once vinyl went to the grave - the cover art used to be good. Overcharging lost them customer loyalty. I'm sorry for the staff involved in this mess. As somebody on this or another thread said hold onto those vouchers as they may be worth something if a new owner is found. They will want to attract you all back.

InchicoreDude

It was an out of date business model that failed to compete with the times. Easons is full of people buying books despite those being readily downloadable. HMV had overheads that Amazon and iTunes simply don't need to worry about.

I agree about Amazon & iTunes. But the comparison with Easons is somewhat unfair. The music / film industry indutry is completely different to the books industry. Watching / listening to a film / song online is pretty much the same as buying it for real. Reading a book on an e-reader is essentially a different experience to reading a paper book.

DirkVoodoo

Guy above hit the nail on the head.

Piracy is not to blame, the changing marketplace is.

If you're going to blame piracy, you might as well blame Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, Steam, etc.

HMV, Game, etc. were always going to go to the wall unless they came up with something innovative. It's sad that people will lose their jobs and a well known brand might very well disappear if a buyer can't be found.

Digital media has replaced the need for physical stores, by and large. Of course people will jump at me and say "I still buy CDs and DVDs!", but they are a shrinking minority. Most people either buy their physical media online and shop around for the best deals, or want an entirely digital collection that won't be outdated when the next technological leap comes around (I have a case full of VHS that we no longer have the means or want to play).

Look back over history and see how technology has replaced jobs, created new ones. It's only more apparent now because rather than a factory out in the middle of nowhere closing down, it will be a noticeable brand on the highstreet.

FloatingVoter

InchicoreDude wrote: »

I agree about Amazon & iTunes. But the comparison with Easons is somewhat unfair. The music / film industry indutry is completely different to the books industry. Watching / listening to a film / song online is pretty much the same as buying it for real. Reading a book on an e-reader is essentially a different experience to reading a paper book.

Agreed. Holding the physical copy of the book is the same as getting a vinyl copy, appreciating the cover art, reading the liner notes and putting it on your shelf. When that went - the game was up.

Oh, and listening to it.

Shinaynay

HMV are a DISGRACE for not taking vouchers. Christmas was less than a month ago they would have known about this & shouldnt have taken peoples money. Theyve been supported by us Irish people for years even in tough times & would have been closed years ago if they hadnt. . I dont have vouchers or anything but it really is shocking

johnny_ultimate

Shinaynay wrote: »

HMV are a DISGRACE for not taking vouchers. Christmas was less than a month ago they would have known about this & shouldnt have taken peoples money. Theyve been supported by us Irish people for years even in tough times & would have been closed years ago if they hadnt. . I dont have vouchers or anything but it really is shocking

Its keeping with insolvency and administration law, no-one's rights are being denied (plus it may well be a temporary call). It's happened with countless major stores in the past, and will happen again, although HMV is obviously a more popular choice for gift vouchers than most. It would actually be very damaging to HMV to say "we're no longer selling vouchers" before administration was announced - administration is a last-ditch call of desperation, and while the warning signs have been there for years, it was still hoped HMV could overcome their financial problems through less drastic measures and keep trading as normal. They had hoped, for example, that they'd be bailed out by the film studios, music labels and game companies.

Further evidence, though, that gift vouchers for specific stores are increasingly an uncertain call.

Loughc

Shinaynay wrote: »

HMV are a DISGRACE for not taking vouchers. Christmas was less than a month ago they would have known about this & shouldnt have taken peoples money. Theyve been supported by us Irish people for years even in tough times & would have been closed years ago if they hadnt. . I dont have vouchers or anything but it really is shocking

I'm not defending HMV in the slightest I think it's disgusting that they're not accepting vouchers.

I can only think they thought they might have been able to steady the ship with the Christmas trade, and that's why they kept selling the vouchers and perhaps Christmas takings were less than what they had budgeted and they had no alternative but to go into administration.

Myrddin

melekalikimaka wrote: »

not if you read the t&c on the vouchers sadly, perfectly legal

The t&c on the vouchers say that the voucher scheme can be stopped at any time provided HMV give adequate notice in the form of messages in store & on their website. I didn't see either of them...

Sad Professor

InchicoreDude wrote: »

I agree about Amazon & iTunes. But the comparison with Easons is somewhat unfair. The music / film industry indutry is completely different to the books industry. Watching / listening to a film / song online is pretty much the same as buying it for real. Reading a book on an e-reader is essentially a different experience to reading a paper book.

Not really. Words are just words, whether they are on a Kindle or a piece of paper. You might have an attachment to the paper and holding the book in your hand, but the actual experience of the story being told in the book is the same. However, at the moment, digital downloads of films don't come close to the quality of Blu-ray. Cinema is a visual medium so quality matters a lot.

Kinski

InchicoreDude wrote: »

Watching / listening to a film / song online is pretty much the same as buying it for real. Reading a book on an e-reader is essentially a different experience to reading a paper book.

Not really, unless the book contains pictures, diagrams or similar. The words are the same in an ebook as a physical copy, but the downloadable equivalent of CDs and Blu-Rays are often inferior thanks to the popularity of outdated formats like MP3.

There are some small trade-offs in terms of character-sharpness, but advances in technology are rapidly closing the gap on the printed word.

Technocentral

The best way to think of it (like any business or service) is why would I go there? If you were looking for a CD, vinyl, book, game, or gadget all could be got much cheaper on the net or if you wanted it the same day in other shops in town. I only buy vinyl records, I haven't bought a CD in years (apart from presents for other people or given to me). About 6 months a go I heard that they were selling vinyl again, they had a tiny selection and the prices were shocking (39 euros for an album that was 27 or so in Tower), obviously vinyl wasn't going to save them but what was the point in reintroducing it with that approach? Bad management had to be part of its demise, Tower is still going strong and I hope it always will, great selection of vinyl, magazines, dvds, gadget accessories, a cafe etc, in really tough times for bricks and mortar stores at least they are trying. I feel sorry for the HMV staff though of course.

Fysh

Shinaynay wrote: »

HMV are a DISGRACE for not taking vouchers. Christmas was less than a month ago they would have known about this & shouldnt have taken peoples money. Theyve been supported by us Irish people for years even in tough times & would have been closed years ago if they hadnt. . I dont have vouchers or anything but it really is shocking

Are you seriously trying to suggest that, at a point when the viability of the business is in serious doubt, the foremost concern is making sure that people who've got vouchers lying around that they haven't used in the 3 weeks since Christmas can do so?

I suggest you readjust your perspective - it's probable they will honour existing vouchers if things go well over the next few days, but they have real debts to pay in the meantime and thus the often-ignored-but-nonetheless-binding terms of the voucher get enforced.

I suspect a smart move would be to keep the online presence - they may have been slow to get up and running but they've got a presence currently (uncompetitively priced though it is, in general) so I don't see any reason they couldn't do a Zavvi and transition to a web-only model, at least for now.

The smart move IMO would be to partner up with another company or set of companies who have a physical presence in suitable locations (ideally providers of a service rather than product, since that means they're less immediately vulnerable to the same pressures that have hammered HMV), and offer a combination of limited in-store sales and collection points. The way to drive it would be to provide guaranteed faster delivery to collection points than to home addresses.

johnny_ultimate

For smaller distributors, physical distribution remains the primary revenue source. They can have a presence on digital sites, but their money is by and large made through DVD and Blu-Ray sales.

As long as the likes of Criterion and Masters of Cinema exist, I think its foolish to suggest physical media simply doesn't matter - maybe not for you, but the DVD and Blu-Ray markets still have a hell of a lot to offer. Their extremely high-quality transfers, lavish booklets and supplementary materials have earned them a rightfully sustainable niche with enthusiast consumers who cannot get the same things online. While many viewers don't care about such things - just have to look at how many would be willing to watch a cam-version - I and I'm sure many, many others would be lost if they didn't keep doing such high quality work. They currently complement digital distribution.

Not that HMV sell such titles, but y'know

Sleepy

This has been inevitable for almost a decade really. Hell, Richard Branson spotted the limited lifespan of such stores back when he sold the Virgin Megastores.

The only times I went into HMV over the past few years was when looking for gifts at Christmas or when I was on Grafton Street and had some time to kill.