There is something seriously wrong with society!!

kunst nugget · 27-11-2012 08:40PM

jasonmcco wrote: »

Bullying seems to be one of these and we know without doubt that sexual abuse is the biggest.

We do? Can you tell me how you know this?

laoch na mona · 27-11-2012 08:44PM

how about we as a nation get together and kick the ****e out of the bullies

kunst nugget · 27-11-2012 08:46PM

laoch na mona wrote: »

how about we as a nation get together and kick the ****e out of the bullies

Because that is a fúcking stupid idea.

jasonmcco · 27-11-2012 08:48PM

I think a big thing is to show children that they really matter and have a voice and that we care.

Judging by the figures which show child abusers face very little chance of being convicted and jailed in ireland has to give our children the wrong impression and also how we have dealt with church abuse scandal won't convince our children that we care enough about them either.

Our kids have eyes and ears and see how we are letting them down.

If our children don't believe we cherish them they will continure to feel we won't miss them if they are gone.

Blaming the internet well it just won't cut it in the eyes of our children.
We need to engage with the children and ask them to help us in finding answers.

woodoo · 27-11-2012 08:50PM

12 is very very young. Very sad. Was she being bullied i haven't seen much in the media?

jasonmcco · 27-11-2012 09:06PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

We do? Can you tell me how you know this?[/QUOT

I read the available info. i am not gonna try convince you that sexual abuse is a big problem for the children in ireland because in the same way i would not waste time trying to convince a person the earth is round and not flat.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=441

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=14649

I always wonder about the people who find it difficult to accept sexual abuse as a big problem for irish children when the statistics show it is.

kunst nugget · 27-11-2012 09:17PM

jasonmcco wrote: »

kunst nugget wrote: »

We do? Can you tell me how you know this?[/QUOT

I read the available info. i am not gonna try convince you that sexual abuse is a big problem for the children in ireland because in the same way i would not waste time trying to convince a person the earth is round and not flat.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=441

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=14649

I always wonder about the people who find it difficult to accept sexual abuse as a big problem for irish children when the statistics show it is.

I never said that child sexual abuse isn't a major problem. You stated that the biggest factor in suicide was without doubt sexual abuse and nothing in the articles you've linked would suggest that. Psychological disorders such as depression and bipolar would seem to be the main factors. These could have a wide range of causes, including among them sexual abuse, but to say that it is the leading factor in suicide would seem to be untrue. So less of the stupid 'arguing that the earth is round' statements. If you're going to make an assertion, back it up with facts. To do otherwise is to make insinuations about the reasons why people committed suicide that are baseless.

lazeedaisy · 27-11-2012 09:36PM

My name is URL wrote: »

There's plenty of help for people out there, but you can't force them to avail of it.

no way is there - the HSE do feck all to help those in need and i am talking of two cases of personal experience, the second, was told.... blah blah blah cutbacks....... blah blah blah cant do anything -

Personally - they took the person into hospital - medicated them and sent them home - told them to do cbt that they have no facilities to do it in house - sent them to god awful group therapy and that is that - hands washed conscience clear

meanwhile - lets talk about mental health - run ads on the tv, and pretend,

no one cares and people are afraid they can catch a suicide gene!

as for bullies - they can be anyone so how can you find them - look around on a daily basis and see it

there is no help for people who try to commit suicide and are unsuccessful, no money - no staff

lazeedaisy · 27-11-2012 09:38PM

am i naive in thinking its the parents who need to parent their children instead of crying for legislation on someone else monitoring them

donegal_road · 28-11-2012 02:03AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Then what ate you saying? We should stop kids listening to bands that make obvious references to suicide but not songs that do it in a less obvious way?

Im saying that people can find meaning in songs that maybe less obvious to other people. Be aware of what your children's influences are

hatrickpatrick · 28-11-2012 02:12AM

The way bullying is "dealt with" is an absolute joke.
I was bullied briefly in school and what always utterly p!ssed me off was the incredible injustice of getting in trouble for defending yourself. This whole PC crap of coming down equally hard on everyone involved in any fight instead of finding out who actually instigated it and dealing with them extra harshly absolutely hammered my confidence for a long time - you're effectively supposed to just let people walk all over you or risk getting in trouble yourself.
It's a bit like Boards' policy of telling people to report posts to mods instead of getting involved in flame wars. That's ok because the mods do their jobs and deal with it. Telling teachers / principle does absolutely nothing at all.

How hard is it to bring in a zero tolerance policy to bullying, particularly physical bullying where it's very obvious that it's happening? If you're caught starting a fight once you get suspended, three times and you're gone. End of story.

The reason bullying is so rampant is because everyone who does it knows that schools will do absolutely nothing meaningful about it. I'm sure there are exceptions, but this seems to be very much the rule.

enda1 · 28-11-2012 10:45AM

Is suicide actually a growing issue though? Or is the cause becoming more apparent because of the inevitable trail associated with internet usage? In the past I imagine a lot of suicides would have been difficult to fathom, but now all the evidence is available.

laoch na mona · 28-11-2012 11:29AM

donegal_road wrote: »

Im saying that people can find meaning in songs that maybe less obvious to other people. Be aware of what your children's influences are

i listen to music way darker then BVB and im not suicidal or depressed in fact everyone I know who has done away with themselves listened to more "normal" music such as rihanna and swedish house mafia

a similar thing happened in England and the daily mail accused a "emo" band MCR as being leaders of a suicide cult

blaming music is just a handy escape route

kunst nugget · 28-11-2012 11:39AM

laoch na mona wrote: »

i listen to music way darker then BVB and im not suicidal or depressed in fact everyone I know who has done away with themselves listened to more "normal" music such as rihanna and swedish house mafia

a similar thing happened in England and the daily mail accused a "emo" band MCR as being leaders of a suicide cult

blaming music is just a handy escape route

He's obviously trolling. I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of a reply.

donegal_road · 28-11-2012 12:26PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

He's obviously trolling. I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of a reply.

having a look at some of your comments makes you as much a 'troll' as me in that case.

@locha google 'music blamed for suicide'

sorry I bothered

kunst nugget · 28-11-2012 12:47PM

donegal_road wrote: »

having a look at some of your comments makes you as much a 'troll' as me in that case.

@locha google 'music blamed for suicide'

sorry I bothered

Okay I'll bite. I had presumed with the link you provided for the Black Veil Brides which was borderline retarded and your mixing up of the information about Mark Chapman that you were trolling but maybe I'm wrong. You said:

thats not what Im saying at all. Who knows what meaning people derive from a few lines of a song. Mark Chapman found his reason for killing
John Lennon in the lyrics of the Beatles's song Helter Skelter

No he did not. Charles Manson believed that Helter Skelter and other songs on the White album were coded messages from the Beatles. Helter Skelter he believed was a message about an imminent race war. Piggies by George Harrison on that album seems to have been the more direct influence on the Sharon Tate murders. Mark Chapman claimed his inspiration from the book 'The Catcher in the Rye' writing in the copy of the book he was holding the night he shot John Lennon 'This is my statement.'

So we should now ban books as well as music.

28-11-2012 01:09PM

It's nothing new in my opinion. Ok some apps allowing anonymity etc maybe contributing to added bullying and therefore depression but suicide in young members of society has always been there.

Now we have social media, papers etc sensationalising things further. But what was the case 10 years ago when such an incident happened? A 12 year old takes his/her life? It was sad, devastating even but people got on with it in the local community.

I even remember one tragic incident where someone was found, it was in the news (RTE namely) but later that day as it transpired the story was taken down, maybe and my opinion out of respect, wishes of the family etc.

Not anymore though.

jasonmcco · 28-11-2012 03:09PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

jasonmcco wrote: »

I never said that child sexual abuse isn't a major problem. You stated that the biggest factor in suicide was without doubt sexual abuse and nothing in the articles you've linked would suggest that. Psychological disorders such as depression and bipolar would seem to be the main factors. These could have a wide range of causes, including among them sexual abuse, but to say that it is the leading factor in suicide would seem to be untrue. So less of the stupid 'arguing that the earth is round' statements. If you're going to make an assertion, back it up with facts. To do otherwise is to make insinuations about the reasons why people committed suicide that are baseless.

Please re-read .I did not say sexual abuse was the leading cause of suicide.
Said it was biggest problem facing our children.

And i still believe it and i don't need links to prove it at this stage on this island.

Was wondering did your study into depression and bipolar disorder throw any light on causes for these 2 leading causes of suicide or did study just evaluate that they exist.

And another huge problem is our unwillingness to tackle the issue and i deduce that from our low conviction rate for sex offenders on this island.

So please don't put words in my mouth

donegal_road · 03-12-2012 02:14AM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Okay I'll bite. I had presumed with the link you provided for the Black Veil Brides which was borderline retarded and your mixing up of the information about Mark Chapman that you were trolling but maybe I'm wrong. You said:

No he did not. Charles Manson believed that Helter Skelter and other songs on the White album were coded messages from the Beatles. Helter Skelter he believed was a message about an imminent race war. Piggies by George Harrison on that album seems to have been the more direct influence on the Sharon Tate murders. Mark Chapman claimed his inspiration from the book 'The Catcher in the Rye' writing in the copy of the book he was holding the night he shot John Lennon 'This is my statement.'

So we should now ban books as well as music.

I just spotted your reply. Many years back, in the days before the internet, I remember hearing how Mark Chapman had received hidden messages in Beatles music, particularly the White Album, as was Charles Manson like you said. I thought I remember hearing reference to Helter Skelter in particular, but maybe it was a dream. I knew Chapman was carrying a copy of The Catcher in the Rye on the night he shot Lennon.
Anyways, the whole Chapman - Manson White Album hidden messages issue is in here

03-12-2012 02:26AM

donegal_road wrote: »

Im saying that people can find meaning in songs that maybe less obvious to other people. Be aware of what your children's influences are

So basically kids should not be allowed to listen to any music as some nutter may hear a ding such as Carry On My Wayward Don or Dancing in the Moonlight and think that the song is telling them to kill themselves are harm others. The whole music made them do it defence is pure and utter bull and if you as a parent blame your child's actions on a song or band then the case generally is that your child may be mentally ill or you are just a terrible patent unable to accept responsibility.

donegal_road · 03-12-2012 02:37AM

Deleted User wrote: »

So basically kids should not be allowed to listen to any music as some nutter may hear a ding such as Carry On My Wayward Don or Dancing in the Moonlight and think that the song is telling them to kill themselves are harm others. The whole music made them do it defence is pure and utter bull and if you as a parent blame your child's actions on a song or band then the case generally is that your child may be mentally ill or you are just a terrible patent unable to accept responsibility.

Im not for a minute suggesting that music alone is to blame for a young person harming themselves. It could be the catalyst for such an event, but not the sole cause.
Would it be fair to say that certain types of music would put an person in a negative frame of mind? Some music will calm you down, other music will make you angry, and there is music that is depressive.

03-12-2012 02:41AM

donegal_road wrote: »

Im not for a minute suggesting that music alone is to blame for a young person harming themselves. It could be the catalyst for such an event, but not the sole cause.
Would it be fair to say that certain types of music would put an person in a negative frame of mind? Some music will calm you down, other music will make you angry, and there is music that is depressive.

So what are you suggesting? That kids should only listen to happy life affirming music? No Tom Waits till kids are 18?

Music does not lead people to harm themselves or others. It's just an easy target for parents to pass the buck. If your child slits their wrists abd bleeds out while listening to Shiny Happy People by REM do we blame the band for the death or do we realise that some people are just troubled.

donegal_road · 03-12-2012 02:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

So what are you suggesting? That kids should only listen to happy life affirming music? No Tom Waits till kids are 18?

Music does not lead people to harm themselves or others. It's just an easy target for parents to pass the buck. If your child slits their wrists abd bleeds out while listening to Shiny Happy People by REM do we blame the band for the death or do we realise that some people are just troubled.

I am not saying this either. Some people are troubled, of course, and it may be the more impressionable and troubled that would find some meaning in such songs as this, and this (the numbskulls in the US marines played this during tours in Iraq, I saw it on some documentary or other)

.

Piliger · 03-12-2012 03:22AM

MrPoker wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/family-left-devastated-as-12yearold-girl-takes-own-life-3306534.html

Didn't see at thread on this so I thought I would draw attention to it.

Like wtf is going on? This is the latest instance of a young life lost through suicide in the last couple of weeks. I don't know if this is the right forum to bring it up but it is the busiest forum in the country and suicide is a serious growing issue which needs attention. I think the rise of social media along with the lack of proper mental health care channels in the country is proving deadly and lives are being lost by the week. The Government need to take notice ASAP!!

This latest case is shocking. 12 years old ffs!! Way too young. Looking after our citizens has to be the Governments first priority. We cant brush this stuff under the carpet.

Such a death is a tragedy I agree. But ranting on about the government is a useless and idiotic thing that doesn't achieve anything except maybe make you feel better.

Firstly there is no mention of Social Media being anything to do with this suicide as others have jumped on. Secondly you don't even mention the responsibilities of the parents or the school. Launching into an anti Government rant just distracts from the ghastly nature of the event.

In the article I see no mention of complaints by the parents or the child to the school, or if the bullying was school based. There is a LOT of information missing, and arriving at a conclusion to the cause and then assigning blame seems mighty premature at this stage.

On the subject of social web sites people need to cop on to the fact that these sites have extensive controls on them them to allow the user to ban individuals, and bullying can easily be avoided with a click of a mouse. Unfortunately parents across the country allow their young children online, unsupervised, without ever bothering their arses learning themselves how to operate these sites and how to protect their children.

03-12-2012 03:28AM

seamus wrote: »

Just to add to my last post, I will admit that technology providers are very slow to provide tools for parents to manage this kind of thing. For example, it should be possible for a parent to set up a Facebook page for the child which gives the child autonomous Facebook access to chat to their schoolfriends and Auntie Joan, but the parent retains full administrative access over the account and can add/delete friends, review all content and private messages, etc. Same should be possible with an email account.
It should be possible to buy a child a PAYG mobile phone and then link that to a paret billpay account, and access logs of who the phone has called and who has called it, and so forth.

These are all painfully simple things which already exist at a business level for managing employee access and such. So a parent in the know can set these up, but for those who don't know technology, the providers are very slow to offer any kind of assistance to parents on controlling their child's communications.

How is that different to a parent just setting up the account in the first place? If they're savvy enough to understand being an admin on an account that someone else uses then I'm sure they could've already thought of setting up an account for the kid. Obviously the kid could just set up another account but they could do that under your plan either. Also I know that if my parents had tried that when I was younger I wouldn't have used the one they set up.

There is something seriously wrong with society!!

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