There is something seriously wrong with society!!

MrPoker

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/family-left-devastated-as-12yearold-girl-takes-own-life-3306534.html

Didn't see at thread on this so I thought I would draw attention to it.

Like wtf is going on? This is the latest instance of a young life lost through suicide in the last couple of weeks. I don't know if this is the right forum to bring it up but it is the busiest forum in the country and suicide is a serious growing issue which needs attention. I think the rise of social media along with the lack of proper mental health care channels in the country is proving deadly and lives are being lost by the week. The Government need to take notice ASAP!!

This latest case is shocking. 12 years old ffs!! Way too young. Looking after our citizens has to be the Governments first priority. We cant brush this stuff under the carpet.

cuana

Its becoming all to common, its very disturbing RIP

kfallon

I don't use social media like FB, Twitter etc but I'm wondering if it should be made illegal for people under 16 or 18!
Maybe include it in those Family Filter/Parental Control things that you can set up on your internet access.

These cases would break your heart!

RobbieTheRobber

MrPoker wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/family-left-devastated-as-12yearold-girl-takes-own-life-3306534.html

Didn't see at thread on this so I thought I would draw attention to it.

Like wtf is going on? This is the latest instance of a young life lost through suicide in the last couple of weeks. I don't know if this is the right forum to bring it up but it is the busiest forum in the country and suicide is a serious growing issue which needs attention. I think the rise of social media along with the lack of proper mental health care channels in the country is proving deadly and lives are being lost by the week. The Government need to take notice ASAP!!

This latest case is shocking. 12 years old ffs!! Way too young. What ever about paying our debts to IMF/EU looking after our citizens has to be the Governments first priority. We cant brush this stuff under the carpet.

The death of a 12 year old child is and always will be a very sad event no matter how it occurs!

Please however I urge not to turn this tragic death of a young girl into something its not.

The IMF debt stuff has nothing to do with this case so please leave it out of this discussion.

seamus

Social media didn't cause these suicides, they were simply tools of the bullies. Teenagers committed suicide from bullying before the internet, and yes they did it in huge numbers like they do at the moment.

There is something of a blind spot in technology at the moment as many parents are too clueless about it to know how to keep tabs on their child's access and control it, but I don't think it's making the issue of mental health worse or causing more suicides.
It could equally be said that access to the web and social media may be helpful in providing a social outlet for those kids who might otherwise have been isolated and lonely pre-internet.

The only thing to be done here is to teach parents to cop the fnck on. Anyone under 16 should not have a phone with unfettered web access and should not have access to a web-enabled computer in their bedrooms or other private areas.
Parents should be vigilant to block, log and review what their children are doing online.

gobnaitolunacy

MrPoker wrote: »

12 years old ffs!! Way too young. .

It's not ok at any age.

freddiek

when i was 12 suicide wouldnt have even been considered in my age group. It was something that adults did. very sad that life is so tough for kids of that age these days that they are looking for a way out

MrPoker

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

The death of a 12 year old child is and always will be a very sad event no matter how it occurs!

Please however I urge not to turn this tragic death of a young girl into something its not.

The IMF debt stuff has nothing to do with this case so please leave it out of this discussion.

Sorry about that. That was not my intention. I just feel that overall young and old there is a major problem at the minute in society. Having lost a family member and friends in the last couple of years and currently dealing with a family member who has threatened on numerous occasions with two attempts over the past year its hard to find proper information or proper mental health care around.

My name is URL

I hate how the internet is automatically blamed for this stuff. Nobody knows what sort of state the girl's head was in.. and it's not the fault of 'society' either if a few knobheads take to bullying a person.

There's plenty of help for people out there, but you can't force them to avail of it.

Mr. Manager

This might seem like an 'out there' question and I mean no disrespect but has it been stated how this girl took her own life?

It's mind boggling to think a person at the age of 12 would even have suicidal thoughts.

Condolences to her family and friends.

Nick_oliveri

Here we go again with the hysterics - " Oh, the government should put up a firewall, Social media should take responsibility, We should just ban parenting"

Suicides have been prevalent among young people for a long time and even though it seems to be getting worse what we should be doing is investigating why and educating rather than a ****ing knee jerk reaction/ daily mail solution for everything.

hooradiation

MrPoker wrote: »

I think the rise of social media along with the lack of proper mental health care channels in the country is proving deadly and lives are being lost by the week.

Well, you're half right.

Not that terrible shit happening is a phenomenon unique to these times - but the myth to the contrary can probably fester up an entire thread all on it's own.

steddyeddy

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

The death of a 12 year old child is and always will be a very sad event no matter how it occurs!

Please however I urge not to turn this tragic death of a young girl into something its not.

The IMF debt stuff has nothing to do with this case so please leave it out of this discussion.

Well not this case maybe but I would find it extremely hard to believe that financial difficulties on Ireland today dont have a massve negative impact on the mental health of familes and thier kids. I would be extremely skeptical that finances havent played a massive part in the increase in suicide in this country of late.

HeyThereDeliah

Some kids are on FB because parents let them lie about their age to sign up. I'm not saying its all parents but some need to educate themselves about the Internet and stuff kids are looking at. Sites they are visiting etc.

No point in blaming society when we don't know what happened. There is plenty suicide awareness helplines available. These young teenage suicides are increasing but blaming bullying is not the answer, it is possible to turn the computer off and ignore these people.

Parents should be more aware of what's happening in their kids lives.

steddyeddy

As was said above it isnt social media it's bullying. The diminishment of another person. This is just simply another tool for the bully. I would also estimate we dont have the correct figures for suicide in this country and that a lot of stories dont make the media.

Grimebox

seamus wrote: »

Social media didn't cause these suicides, they were simply tools of the bullies. Teenagers committed suicide from bullying before the internet, and yes they did it in huge numbers like they do at the moment.

There is something of a blind spot in technology at the moment as many parents are too clueless about it to know how to keep tabs on their child's access and control it, but I don't think it's making the issue of mental health worse or causing more suicides.
It could equally be said that access to the web and social media may be helpful in providing a social outlet for those kids who might otherwise have been isolated and lonely pre-internet.

The only thing to be done here is to teach parents to cop the fnck on. Anyone under 16 should not have a phone with unfettered web access and should not have access to a web-enabled computer in their bedrooms or other private areas.
Parents should be vigilant to block, log and review what their children are doing online.

I think this is just unrealistic in this day and age

Zillah

I always find it annoying and unfortunate when people focus on technology after a tragedy. A guy goes on a shooting rampage -> rants about Halo and Modern Warfare. Trust me, if your son got an assault rifle and started firing blindly into a crowd then he has problems way above and beyond computers. Your daughter gets bullied into suicide online? Stop talking about the god damn website and focus on the bullies and the school. Jesus. If someone makes threatening phonecalls no one talks about this dangerous new telephony device we've invited into our homes.

HeyThereDeliah

Grimebox wrote: »

I think this is just unrealistic in this day and age

I don't think so, parents want their kids to have everything now, all this they need the Internet to do homework, no they don't.
Kids in primary school with phones, no need when parents should still be dropping them to school and picking them up.

Parents indulge kids way too much.

TURRICAN

Policy needs to be brought into schools etc to deal with bullies and how it affects people.

Bullies are in effect silent killers , probably
unknown to themselves and realise when it's too late!

kfallon

Zillah wrote: »

I always find it annoying and unfortunate when people focus on technology after a tragedy. A guy goes on a shooting rampage -> rants about Halo and Modern Warfare. Trust me, if your son got an assault rifle and started firing blindly into a crowd then he has problems way above and beyond computers. Your daughter gets bullied into suicide online? Stop talking about the god damn website and focus on the bullies and the school. Jesus. If someone makes threatening phonecalls no one talks about this dangerous new telephony device we've invited into our homes.

These sites make it easier for the bullies with Private Messages/Chats etc. Only the victim will see these unless they are strong enough to stand up to them or show somebody else.

If you are being bullied in school you may be saved by a 3rd party identifying what is going on be it a teacher or another student. However if you are logging into a website every day in the confines of your own bedroom that you only know the username/password etc it could be far more difficult for someone on the 'outside' to pick up on what is happening.

kunst nugget

TURRICAN wrote: »

Bullies are in effect silent killers , probably

Really? I thought it was my brother's farts…

kfallon

kfallon wrote: »

These sites make it easier for the bullies with Private Messages/Chats etc. Only the victim will see these unless they are strong enough to stand up to them or show somebody else.

If you are being bullied in school you may be saved by a 3rd party identifying what is going on be it a teacher or another student. However if you are logging into a website every day in the confines of your own bedroom that you only know the username/password etc it could be far more difficult for someone on the 'outside' to pick up on what is happening.

Same with phones when nobody else can hear

crusher000

Another wasted life.

We can't blame the internet and social media for this, but it is just another tool for bullies to use. Also the fact that you don't have to be face to face with a person to bully them can make it easier for some people to do. For example what we say behind peoples backs, we may nver confront them with our views, same with social media people that normally wouldn't say something to a persons face will find it easier to blurt it out on social media without seeing the person they are insulting reactions. Again social media not to blame but a tool to bully. If a bully confronts you face to face you can walk away or choose not to put yourself in a position where you meet them head on. Socail media gives the bully 24 hour access. Again not social medias fault.Children should be thought that the words they sprout out on the internet can have a harming affect on the person it is intended for. Adults need to keep an eye on their children, have to become withdrawn? Have they stopped doing activities they used to love ? If so investigate, better to invade their privacy on the phone or pc than to have the situation end like this.

kfallon

bluewolf wrote: »

Same with phones when nobody else can hear

Tbh I don't really think a 12 year old should have a phone either!

crusher000

kfallon wrote: »

Tbh I don't really think a 12 year old should have a phone either!

Ah, they have them alot younger. I coach 8 year olds and some of them have phones. One of the must get items with communion money.

kfallon

crusher000 wrote: »

Ah, they have them alot younger. I coach 8 year olds and some of them have phones. One of the must get items with communion money.

Oh I know they have them but I certainly don't think they need them!

crusher000

kfallon wrote: »

Oh I know they have them but I certainly don't think they need them!

Tell their parents that. "Ring me when training is over love." "If I'm not back by the end of training, ring me as I'll be up town love". This is of the point though.

Really disgusting how media outlets and supposed awareness groups will try and create controversy and make links where there are none. There has been no evidence that thus was in any way linked yo any social networking site but hey, don't net the facts get in the way of a story.

Suicide amongst teenagers is not some recent phenomenon, its been occurring every year since as far back as anyone can remember. What has changed is the way the media covers these events, by linking each of these isolated incidents they can create a much bigger and interesting story.

kfallon

crusher000 wrote: »

Tell their parents that. "Ring me when training is over love." "If I'm not back by the end of training, ring me as I'll be up town love". This is of the point though.

God be with the days when your parents knew what time the training was over at and they'd be there waiting!!

kfallon

kfallon wrote: »

God be with the days when your parents knew what time the training was over at and they'd be there waiting!!

Or training/school/etc finished early for some unpredictable reason and you were standing around in the rain for an hour, great.

kunst nugget

crusher000 wrote: »

We can't blame the internet and social media for this, but it is just another tool for bullies to use. Also the fact that you don't have to be face to face with a person to bully them can make it easier for some people to do. For example what we say behind peoples backs, we may nver confront them with our views, same with social media people that normally wouldn't say something to a persons face will find it easier to blurt it out on social media without seeing the person they are insulting reactions. Again social media not to blame but a tool to bully. If a bully confronts you face to face you can walk away or choose not to put yourself in a position where you meet them head on. Socail media gives the bully 24 hour access. Again not social medias fault.Children should be thought that the words they sprout out on the internet can have a harming affect on the person it is intended for. Adults need to keep an eye on their children, have to become withdrawn? Have they stopped doing activities they used to love ? If so investigate, better to invade their privacy on the phone or pc than to have the situation end like this.

Computers do tend to depersonalise things and I know myself I've probably said things online to people in arguments or discussions that I probably wouldn't say face to face and people have done the same to me. But I'm in my thirties and I can understand and deal with that. I think it's a very different kettle of fish for teenagers and kids who are still learning how to deal with different kinds of emotions. I don't think there's any one answer that's going to tie all this up neatly. I think parents need to foster open and honest relationships with their kids so that the kid will feel comfortable coming to them if they have a problem. Also parents need to educate themselves on bullying and the possible effects it can have on children. I think it can be hard for parents to understand and differentiate between what is general teenage moodiness and depression but like I said if you have an open relationship with your kids they can hopefully communicate these feelings to you.

seamus

Grimebox wrote: »

I think this is just unrealistic in this day and age

Nope. Smartphones can be configured to disable web access over 3G/GPRS and only allow connections to specific WiFi networks.
WiFi networks can be configured with a man-in-the-middle gateway that logs all accesses, even over secure connections.
Parents of younger teenagers should make a point of looking at the child's phone every now and again to see what they're at. Older teenagers can be given more leeway.

There will always be ways around it, like going to a mate's house, but provided that this stuff doesn't happen on your watch, it'll be mostly fine.

Spiritual

When I was younger, there were no social networks. You had your friends, there was a natural attrition of these as you grew older and developed your personality. Now everywhere is awash with information and chit chat, friends on something like FB became a status symbol but truly how many of these can be classed as friends.

I do not envy kids trying to fit in these days in is a bloody minefield. I have spent many an hour with a crying child, trying to explain that not everyone is a friend because of being upset by a mean comment. The challenges that seem to be there with kids were not as prevalent as they are today. It is all about wanting to fit in.

Society has contributed greatly with it's consumer lifestyle, the message that you have to be "cool". Also the non stop bombardment of the live's of the nouveau rich that kids seem to hold as the only way to live. Kids trying to be adults before their time, I am shocked at some of the behaviours that I see from kids in my town, they are little scummers once away from their own doorstep. Long gone are the days that you would get a boot up the arse and another one at home when you arrived home to complain.

Also I have nieces and nephews and it seems to be the nieces that have the problems with bullying, primarily from other groups of girls. Girls can be right little bitches and unbelievably vindictive towards each other.. It is scary some of the things that they are dealing with.

Keep an eye on your kids.

lounakin

As far as bullying in school goes, if more kids dared to help, support those they see are being a target, there would be much less despair amongst the victims. I remember in school there always been one child that was abused by a group on a daily basis and all the other kids just standing by, I find that repulsive and just as bad. I would always try to help but I was one person and we needed more. It's the same with cyber bullying, I'm sure it doesn't go unnoticed and people do stand there and ignore it.

TURRICAN

seamus wrote: »

Nope. Smartphones can be configured to disable web access over 3G/GPRS and only allow connections to specific WiFi networks.
WiFi networks can be configured with a man-in-the-middle gateway that logs all accesses, even over secure connections.
Parents of younger teenagers should make a point of looking at the child's phone every now and again to see what they're at. Older teenagers can be given more leeway.

There will always be ways around it, like going to a mate's house, but provided that this stuff doesn't happen on your watch, it'll be mostly fine.

Please show what your talking about.
Thanks.

kunst nugget

Spiritual wrote: »

When I was younger, there were no social networks. You had your friends, there was a natural attrition of these as you grew older and developed your personality. Now everywhere is awash with information and chit chat, friends on something like FB became a status symbol but truly how many of these can be classed as friends.

I do not envy kids trying to fit in these days in is a bloody minefield. I have spent many an hour with a crying child, trying to explain that not everyone is a friend because of being upset by a mean comment. The challenges that seem to be there with kids were not as prevalent as they are today. It is all about wanting to fit in.

Society has contributed greatly with it's consumer lifestyle, the message that you have to be "cool". Also the non stop bombardment of the live's of the nouveau rich that kids seem to hold as the only way to live. Kids trying to be adults before their time, I am shocked at some of the behaviours that I see from kids in my town, they are little scummers once away from their own doorstep. Long gone are the days that you would get a boot up the arse and another one at home when you arrived home to complain.

Also I have nieces and nephews and it seems to be the nieces that have the problems with bullying, primarily from other groups of girls. Girls can be right little bitches and unbelievably vindictive towards each other.. It is scary some of the things that they are dealing with.

Keep an eye on your kids.

Aye, give me the simpler times when you only got oranges at christmas, women could be conveniently locked away in the laundries for shaming themselves and teachers could beat several shades of sh¡te out of kids. And the neighbours would talk to you and everyone was hungry but we all had smiles on our faces and Jesus in our hearts…

Kids have always wanted to be cool to fit in and they always will. Kids have always been bullied and always will. These aren't new conditions, just the media that they use is and parents need to keep themselves up to date on all these things.

seamus

TURRICAN wrote: »

Please show what your talking about.
Thanks.

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1466

Lets you configure your iPhone in a certain way, then lock it down to prevent further changes. The only way for a child to get around this would be to complete a full reset of the device.

WiFi routers come with all sorts of security nowadays. Parental controls (filtering) would be fairly standard, but most will also let you log everything on an external harddrive, and review them at your leisure.

Also straightforward to install keyloggers and similar applications on your PC to capture everything they do there.

Spiritual

kunst nugget wrote: »

Aye, give me the simpler times when you only got oranges at christmas, women could be conveniently locked away in the laundries for shaming themselves and teachers could beat several shades of sh¡te out of kids. And the neighbours would talk to you and everyone was hungry but we all had smiles on our faces and Jesus in our hearts…

Kids have always wanted to be cool to fit in and they always will. Kids have always been bullied and always will. These aren't new conditions, just the media that they use is and parents need to keep themselves up to date on all these things.

I am not saying kids were not bullied before, it just seems to be easier with the advent of social networks.

As for the first part of your post, that is just hyperbolic crap or wishful thinking, I am not sure which.

Gee_G

I just think this is all absolutely awful, all these poor kids. 12,13,14 year old kids should be stressing about stupid, pointless stuff. Ending their lives should not even cross their minds, its unnatural, the poor little things. Don't know how their families will get through it .

kfallon

bluewolf wrote: »

Or training/school/etc finished early for some unpredictable reason and you were standing around in the rain for an hour, great.

I don't ever remember a day when school finished early for some unpredictable reason and we were all turfed out onto the street, the teachers washed their hands of us, closed the school gates and basically said, "Not our problem anymore!"

seamus

Just to add to my last post, I will admit that technology providers are very slow to provide tools for parents to manage this kind of thing. For example, it should be possible for a parent to set up a Facebook page for the child which gives the child autonomous Facebook access to chat to their schoolfriends and Auntie Joan, but the parent retains full administrative access over the account and can add/delete friends, review all content and private messages, etc. Same should be possible with an email account.
It should be possible to buy a child a PAYG mobile phone and then link that to a paret billpay account, and access logs of who the phone has called and who has called it, and so forth.

These are all painfully simple things which already exist at a business level for managing employee access and such. So a parent in the know can set these up, but for those who don't know technology, the providers are very slow to offer any kind of assistance to parents on controlling their child's communications.

kfallon

kfallon wrote: »

I don't ever remember a day when school finished early for some unpredictable reason and we were all turfed out onto the street, the teachers washed their hands of us, closed the school gates and basically said, "Not our problem anymore!"

That's lovely for you, I do

Or parents were delayed for whatever reason and I had no way of knowing was it 5 mins, 30 mins

gobnaitolunacy

Spiritual wrote: »

I am not saying kids were not bullied before, it just seems to be easier with the advent of social networks.

As for the first part of your post, that is just hyperbolic crap or wishful thinking, I am not sure which.

Way easier, it's 24/7 bullying which follows them around after school unlike the physical bullying and namecalling of yore which stopped after school bell rang at days end.

Plus, I guess the bullies don't grasp the impact of what they're doing, being kids after all.

Parents vetting websites/social media is the only way, legislation of sites won't work esp. if they're outside the country. Mobiles without internet access etc.

This might not have anything to do with bullying at all.

Children can have mental health problems, but form some reason people cling fiercely to the idea of childhood being a time of innocences and happiness.

To a child the problems they have are the same size as our problems, again people cant seem to accept that.

Perversely talking about suicide and suicide prevention can make suicide seem moe acceptable. Weather we like it or not when suicide was more hidden and shamefull...., the shame might have been enough to stop some people from going through with the action.

The human brain is very complex and despite all our knowledge, how our thought and actions interact is not full understood.

donegal_road

the article mentions that she was a huge fan of this band called the Black Veil Brides, a quick look on Google and I found this


Tragic story, rip





.

donegal_road

donegal_road wrote: »

the article mentions that she was a huge fan of this band called the Black Veil Brides, a quick look on Google and I found this

It is than a bit unhealthy for impressionable young people to be listening to bands that make open reference to such things, imho
Tragic story, rip

Great idea lets ban any song that's about suicide. Mad World, Adam's Song, For You, Quicksand, Hurt, Jimmy Jimmy, Last Goodbye, Let Me In, Hey Hey My My, Hey Man Nice Shot and Today are just a few examples of songs about suicide. There are dozens more great songs but you're right we should stop kids listening topeople like Black Veil Brides and Bruce Sptingsteen as they write songs dealing with suicide. Maybe we should also stop kids listening yo songs that are about sex, violence, feature language etc. After all its music that leads kids to do stupid things, sure didn't Colombine happen because the kids listened to Marilyn Manson.

kunst nugget

Deleted User wrote: »

Great idea lets ban any song that's about suicide. Mad World, Adam's Song, For You, Quicksand, Hurt, Jimmy Jimmy, Last Goodbye, Let Me In, Hey Hey My My, Hey Man Nice Shot and Today are just a few examples of songs about suicide. There are dozens more great songs but you're right we should stop kids listening topeople like Black Veil Brides and Bruce Sptingsteen as they write songs dealing with suicide. Maybe we should also stop kids listening yo songs that are about sex, violence, feature language etc. After all its music that leads kids to do stupid things, sure didn't Colombine happen because the kids listened to Marilyn Manson.

Hey Hey My My is not a song about suicide.

kunst nugget

kunst nugget wrote: »

Hey Hey My My is not a song about suicide.

It's about his Young felt that he was no longer relevant and while its not out and out about suicide it is about feeling like you no longer matter, how the world has left you behind. Somethings that mist suicide victims feel and following Kurt Corbain's suicide Young changed the manned in which he sung the song emphasing the more upbeat elements.

kunst nugget

Deleted User wrote: »

It's about his Young felt that he was no longer relevant and while its not out and out about suicide it is about feeling like you no longer matter, how the world has left you behind. Somethings that mist suicide victims feel and following Kurt Corbain's suicide Young changed the manned in which he sung the song emphasing the more upbeat elements.

Yes it's about Young musing on his relevance with the death of Elvis and the arrival of punk but it's not about suicide. Kurt Cobain chose to completely misinterpret the song.

donegal_road

Deleted User wrote: »

Great idea lets ban any song that's about suicide. Mad World, Adam's Song, For You, Quicksand, Hurt, Jimmy Jimmy, Last Goodbye, Let Me In, Hey Hey My My, Hey Man Nice Shot and Today are just a few examples of songs about suicide. There are dozens more great songs but you're right we should stop kids listening topeople like Black Veil Brides and Bruce Sptingsteen as they write songs dealing with suicide. Maybe we should also stop kids listening yo songs that are about sex, violence, feature language etc. After all its music that leads kids to do stupid things, sure didn't Colombine happen because the kids listened to Marilyn Manson.

thats not what Im saying at all. Who knows what meaning people derive from a few lines of a song. Mark Chapman found his reason for killing
John Lennon in the lyrics of the Beatles's song Helter Skelter

kunst nugget

donegal_road wrote: »

thats not what Im saying at all. Who knows what meaning people derive from a few lines of a song. Mark Chapman found his reason for killing
John Lennon in the lyrics of the Beatles's song Helter Skelter

Haha. Obvious troll is obvious.