Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

PRAF · 29-11-2012 05:54PM

Melion wrote: »

Sorry but Johnson, Agger and Sterling are essential in this team.

Disagree with you on this point Melion. Sterling is raw potential. Lots of good performances, looks a very bright talent, but not enough end product right now. That will come in time. However, I don't think he is an 'untouchable' as the Special One might say

opr · 29-11-2012 05:57PM

billybudd wrote:

This is the thing after AF,AW & DM leave or move on then that is the future, out of all the teams of EPL today who is there more than five year? Managers do not have time anymore and that wont change, i will say that BR has from now till this time next year to save his job.

This is why I argued so vehemently about putting the proper footballing structures in place above Rodgers. Managers should have little control apart from coaching the first team because in the kind of setup which is required to bring a certain kind of vision with a similar philosophy throughout a club they're often transient for the early part of the project. Swansea have really shown the way and how this model works so well.

I remember you saying earlier in the season Melion that you thought Swansea would really struggle without Rodgers. He deserves great credit for his time coaching with them but he's a tiny part of why that club is doing so well. Pretty incredible how well they're doing this season considering they also lost two of their best players from last season along with the manager.

Opr

PRAF · 29-11-2012 05:59PM

Melion wrote: »

And ill ask yet again. Who fills in for Sterling?

Wisdom or Kelly at right back, fine with that.
Coates or Carra in the centre, fine with that.
Downing or Cole on the wing in place of Sterling, no siree, i am not ok with that.

Who can fill in for Sterling? How about Gerrard (moving from his DM / AM spot), Borini (when he returns from injury), Suso (although not his best position, he could do a job there), even the much maligned Joe Cole who performed well there recently in the EL.

Don't get me wrong, Sterling is one of our best performers this year, but I think we could give him some bench time and not have any impact on our results or team performances

Leiva · 29-11-2012 05:59PM

opr wrote: »

This is why I argued so vehemently about putting the proper footballing structures in place above Rodgers. Managers should have little control apart from coaching the first team because in the kind of setup which is required to bring a certain kind of vision with a similar philosophy throughout a club they're often transient for the early part of the project. Swansea have really shown the way and how this model works so well.

I remember you saying earlier in the season Melion that you thought Swansea would really struggle without Rodgers. He deserves great credit for his time coaching with them but he's a tiny part of why that club is doing so well. Pretty incredible how well they're doing this season considering they also lost two of their best players from last season along with the manager.

Opr

here here .

joe123 · 29-11-2012 06:02PM

mike65 wrote: »

Maybe I'm a glass half full type, but I'm patient about this club and why its taking time, I never saw any great breakthrough to much better results this season so I'm not downbeat about it, Lucas back WILL make a difference to the balance of the side and obviously a striker or two won't hurt either. When I look I'm looking beyond the results even beyond the current squad, there is so much good happening at LFC but if people get fixated on each games scoreline they probably don't see most of it.

Speaking of the future, this lot should have thumped Dortmund by six.

Short but sweet but you make a whole lot of sense. I wish more fans, including a few on here had the same sort of outlook.

PRAF · 29-11-2012 06:04PM

opr wrote: »

This is why I argued so vehemently about putting the proper footballing structures in place above Rodgers. Managers should have little control apart from coaching the first team because in the kind of setup which is required to bring a certain kind of vision with a similar philosophy throughout a club they're often transient for the early part of the project. Swansea have really shown the way and how this model works so well.

I remember you saying earlier in the season Melion that you thought Swansea would really struggle without Rodgers. He deserves great credit for his time coaching with them but he's a tiny part of why that club is doing so well. Pretty incredible how well they're doing this season considering they also lost two of their best players from last season along with the manager.

Opr

Please elaborate on these footballing structures? Is there a DoF in there that I don't know about? You could also argue that Martinez started them on the road to attractive, effective football and that Rodgers moved it on a few notches. Laudrup is reaping the benefits of the work of Martinez and Rodgers and is just tinkering around the edges.

On the other hand, Rodgers is picking up the pieces left for him by KD, RH, Rafa, and H&G.

T-K-O · 29-11-2012 06:09PM

West Brom have a solid structure in place. Despite loosing managers like there's no tomorrow the club still moves forward.

There is one guy in particular at the club and apparently all the top teams are trying to poach him

joe123 · 29-11-2012 06:17PM

From reading through some of the posts, one thing is clear.

Bringing back Kenny was one of the worst things to happen when it ends up in a sacking. Its really divided alot of the fans and having hired an unproven manager with alot of potential hasnt helped.

You have the likes of Alan,LL and Daijthii attacking everything and anything regards rodgers. As stated in a previous post, attacking the stuff they defended last season.

Both sides are guilty of this too, sad to see.

Vicxas · 29-11-2012 06:20PM

We're all just pissed off the way things are going. No one ever said this would be an easy transition.

We just have to believe we're on the right path.

PRAF · 29-11-2012 06:23PM

joe123 wrote: »

From reading through some of the posts, one thing is clear.

Bringing back Kenny was one of the worst things to happen when it ends up in a sacking. Its really divided alot of the fans and having hired an unproven manager with alot of potential hasnt helped.

You have the likes of Alan,LL and Daijthii attacking everything and anything regards rodgers. As stated in a previous post, attacking the stuff they defended last season.

Both sides are guilty of this too, sad to see.

Thankfully Jen Chang is no longer at the club so Alan,LL and Daijthii don't have to worry about dog sh1t being flung into their letterboxes

LuckyLloyd · 29-11-2012 06:29PM

joe123 wrote: »

From reading through some of the posts, one thing is clear.

Bringing back Kenny was one of the worst things to happen when it ends up in a sacking. Its really divided alot of the fans and having hired an unproven manager with alot of potential hasnt helped.

You have the likes of Alan,LL and Daijthii attacking everything and anything regards rodgers. As stated in a previous post, attacking the stuff they defended last season.

Both sides are guilty of this too, sad to see.

If Louis Van Gaal had been brought in I'd be a lot less concerned and far more willing to take things on faith.

We got a guy with limited achievement and experience who is waffling on about 'his philosophy' every opportunity he gets. The best thing he could do is win football matches. Instead, he's won 3 from 14 in the league.

slingerz · 29-11-2012 06:29PM

Vicxas wrote: »

We're all just pissed off the way things are going. No one ever said this would be an easy transition.

We just have to believe we're on the right path.

Liverpool are on the right path but its not an instanteous transformation. Players are required to be added to the squad. That will allow for the protecting of Sterling or not seeing Downing at left back or Gerrard in the middle of the field.

Player additions are badly needed the squad is too small and too short of quality to compete as people desire. Rodgers hands are tied in this regard. If he's had 4 to 6 transfer windows to work with then fair enuogh it would be right to chastise him.

If Liverpool added the alleged targets of Sturrdige and Walcott in January for example then a front 3 of Walcott, Suarez, Sturridge would be an imposing threat that would score goals. This allows Sterling to be rotated/rested/dropped whatever as cover. Same goes for Gerrard in the middle. The return of Lucas should free up the likes of Allen, Sahin, Gerrard, Shelvey to be rotated with success.

Liverpool werent terrible last night by any means but they are learning and improving as time goes on.

The return to good form could never have been instantaneous

opr · 29-11-2012 06:40PM

PRAF wrote: »

Please elaborate on these footballing structures? Is there a DoF in there that I don't know about? You could also argue that Martinez started them on the road to attractive, effective football and that Rodgers moved it on a few notches. Laudrup is reaping the benefits of the work of Martinez and Rodgers and is just tinkering around the edges.

On the other hand, Rodgers is picking up the pieces left for him by KD, RH, Rafa, and H&G.

Huw Jenkins is kind of like a DOF. He has other good people around him at that club. We should be on a different scale to them considering the relative size of the club but we probably currently lag behind. The point is you surround yourself with footballing knowledge within the club. It seems we still have two owners learning about football as they go calling the shots. In fairness to them they did want to put certain structures in place which were knocked back at the time apparently for Rodgers.

Swansea isn't just something that happened overnight or when Brendan took over the club. They have been consistently promoting a certain football philosophy for years. They have promoted this throughout the club, through the age groups and at all levels. They have hired managers who believe in the philosophy and have carried on those ideas.

Taylor

Taylor said: "At Swansea the whole club is set up in the same way as Barcelona. We have basically mimicked their way of doing things. The last three managers have had the same idea of how the game should be played and it is working.

It started way back with Kenny Jacket as manager who promoted a style of football that focused on retaining possession. That was built upon by Sousa, Martinez, Rodgers and now Laudrup. What I'm trying to point out is that the coach isn't the important thing but the structures which allow them to only employ managers who play a certain way who have little influence other than coaching. They are just a cog in a huge wheel.

Balague has been getting interviewed everywhere this week as he has a new book coming out. I don't like the guy but he has some interesting things to say about Manchester City who showed him round the club last week. They've of course employed Txiki Begiristain recently but along with him he was saying they have head hunted the best for all areas of the club who are proper footballing people with the knowledge and skills to take the club forward. It's a proper long term vision they appear to have there with the needed foresight and planning going on to make them a monster force for many coming years. It includes stuff like community integration with the club to try and build bonds in the area with youth early etc. He said the stuff going on is quite incredible.

The owners of City know they have little to no footballing knowledge so they do what clever people tend to do in surrounding themselves with really well informed smart footballing people to make decisions for them. I want to know that we've the kind of structures in place that if Rodgers gets fired we head hunt a guy to carry on the work. I want to know that we've the best we can get at all areas of the club. I want to see that on a visible level beyond the manager we have more than Ian ****ing Ayre guiding the club and our owners.

Opr

Kingdom · 29-11-2012 07:06PM

@T-K-O: Re: West Brom, England poached him. Dan Ashworth or something like that is his name. With them since 2007.

T-K-O · 29-11-2012 07:10PM

Kingdom wrote: »

@T-K-O: Re: West Brom, England poached him. Dan Ashworth or something like that is his name. With them since 2007.

Thank Zeus, for a moment there I thought I made the entire thing up

Cheer for that

joe123 · 29-11-2012 07:10PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

If Louis Van Gaal had been brought in I'd be a lot less concerned and far more willing to take things on faith.

We got a guy with limited achievement and experience who is waffling on about 'his philosophy' every opportunity he gets. The best thing he could do is win football matches. Instead, he's won 3 from 14 in the league.

There was so much upheaval during the summer in regards playing staff that surely some poor results are to be expected.

Rodgers is trying to implement his own style and is using a lot of youth. He has been given little resources to build a team so again poor results were to be expected.

If you think back then during some of those results, we have played the top sides and should of picked up more points in a lot of the games we played. We are also missing Lucas which is huge.

Off the top of my head, the truly disappointing results/displays were the Arsenal and West Brom match.

The time to properly start judging Rodgers is next year.

daithijjj · 29-11-2012 07:23PM

joe123 wrote: »

From reading through some of the posts, one thing is clear.

Bringing back Kenny was one of the worst things to happen when it ends up in a sacking. Its really divided alot of the fans and having hired an unproven manager with alot of potential hasnt helped.

You have the likes of Alan,LL and Daijthii attacking everything and anything regards rodgers. As stated in a previous post, attacking the stuff they defended last season.

Both sides are guilty of this too, sad to see.

I havent attacked Rodgers on a personal level other than to say he talks too much and is inexperienced. He is merely a symptom of what is truly out of place at the club. Dont know why i have to keep saying this.

Is there anyone who doesnt agree that Rodgers needs to keep closer counsel regards talking about his own fringe players? or the fact he is out of his depth as to previous for achievement or challenging the top 4-6?. What exactly is wrong with pointing these things out?. Is it that people just want to keep their heads in the sand and not hear it or what?.

If someone posted in here 2 years ago, that in 2 years time, we would have a manager who had never managed in the EPL or any top division, given carte blanche with no DOF in place, coupled with miserly sums (fact) being invested, there would be uproar, its that simple and its time to wake up to the bigger picture. What people hope or think they can see in regards the building process is just pipe dreams, 'i can see what he is trying to do', 'if we spend money'. We have taken to the pitch for 14 league games fighting for 42 points, and have 4 more points than Southampton in 18th place.

If i was to not see a tap of football this year and just listen to the club i would think we were going to splash some cash and we were top 6 playing very well. Thats what you call 'spin'.

T-K-O · 29-11-2012 07:28PM

daithijjj wrote: »

I havent attacked Rodgers on a personal level other than to say he talks too much and is inexperienced. He is merely a symptom of what is truly out of place at the club. Dont know why i have to keep saying this.

Is there anyone who doesnt agree that Rodgers needs to keep closer counsel regards talking about his own fringe players? or the fact he is out of his depth as to previous for achievement or challenging the top 4-6?. What exactly is wrong with pointing these things out?. Is it that people just want to keep their heads in the sand and not hear it or what?.

If someone posted in here 2 years ago, that in 2 years time, we would have a manager who had never managed in the EPL or any top division, given carte blanche with no DOF in place, coupled with miserly sums (fact) being invested, there would be uproar, its that simple and its time to wake up to the bigger picture. What people hope or think they can see in regards the building process is just pipe dreams, 'i can see what he is trying to do', 'if we spend money'. We have taken to the pitch for 14 league games fighting for 42 points, and have 4 more points than Southampton in 18th place.

If i was to not see a tap of football this year and just listen to the club i would think we were going to splash some cash and we were top 6 playing very well. Thats what you call 'spin'.

We are in the ****ter, nothing we can do about it now.

Do you think the club is spinning us a yarn. FSG have no intention of investing or improving the team ??

They wont see a return unless the club is successful on the pitch.

Mr Alan · 29-11-2012 07:30PM

T-K-O wrote: »

We are in the ****ter, nothing we can do about it now.

Do you think the club is spinning us a yarn. FSG have no intention of investing or improving the team ??

They wont see a return unless the club is successful on the pitch.

My worry is that FSG have fallen for Rodgers spin as it suits them to.

T-K-O · 29-11-2012 07:35PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

My worry is that FSG have fallen for Rodgers spin as it suits them to.

Now we are talking spin.... certain radiio stations love that line.

I do not believe for one second that BR waffled his way into the job.

Brendan going on in the media is the same as every other manager....the difference.....BR comes across well and that is frowned upon.

The press fall all over that stuff when a foreign manager does it...

T-K-O · 29-11-2012 07:36PM

Debating the owners and Brendan Rodger is a waste of time. The proof will be in the pudding, we just need to sit back and wait.

skydish79 · 29-11-2012 07:56PM

Spurs match is on LFCTV at 7pm

looder · 29-11-2012 07:58PM

joe123 wrote: »

From reading through some of the posts, one thing is clear.

Bringing back Kenny was one of the worst things to happen when it ends up in a sacking. Its really divided alot of the fans and having hired an unproven manager with alot of potential hasnt helped.

You have the likes of Alan,LL and Daijthii attacking everything and anything regards rodgers. As stated in a previous post, attacking the stuff they defended last season.

Both sides are guilty of this too, sad to see.

Mr Alan · 29-11-2012 08:10PM

T-K-O wrote: »

Debating the owners and Brendan Rodger is a waste of time. The proof will be in the pudding, we just need to sit back and wait.

At what point is it acceptable to sit forward and discuss?

daithijjj · 29-11-2012 08:12PM

T-K-O wrote: »

Now we are talking spin.... certain radiio stations love that line.

I do not believe for one second that BR waffled his way into the job.

Brendan going on in the media is the same as every other manager....the difference.....BR comes across well and that is frowned upon.

The press fall all over that stuff when a foreign manager does it...

Really?, do you ever wonder how a man who destroyed St Etienne (according to the co chairman there) managed to get full control of footballing matters with Liverpool FC. I will tell you how, he interviews well, speaks well and is a legend on his own CV.

daithijjj · 29-11-2012 08:19PM

T-K-O wrote: »

We are in the ****ter, nothing we can do about it now.

Do you think the club is spinning us a yarn. FSG have no intention of investing or improving the team ??

They wont see a return unless the club is successful on the pitch.

My worry is that they are going down the Randy Lerner route. Why spend x amount on wages and finish 6th when we can comfortably spend half that and finish 12th.

T-K-O · 29-11-2012 08:23PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

At what point is it acceptable to sit forward and discuss?

crying about Rafa and Kenny is futile. Time will tell if BR and FSG are true to their word

Mr Alan · 29-11-2012 08:24PM

T-K-O wrote: »

crying about Rafa and Kenny is futile. Time will tell if BR and FSG are true to their word

Emmmm, you didn't answer my question?

T-K-O · 29-11-2012 08:25PM

daithijjj wrote: »

Really?, do you ever wonder how a man who destroyed St Etienne (according to the co chairman there) managed to get full control of footballing matters with Liverpool FC. I will tell you how, he interviews well, speaks well and is a legend on his own CV.

Speaking of CV's I would imagine FSG have seen quite a few. You give BR too much credit and FSG well not enough

T-K-O · 29-11-2012 08:26PM

daithijjj wrote: »

My worry is that they are going down the Randy Lerner route. Why spend x amount on wages and finish 6th when we can comfortably spend half that and finish 12th.

It's a possibility but there is no money in that

Mr Alan wrote: »

Emmmm, you didn't answer my question?

Well that depends. There is a lot of tripe in this thread. We should move forward and base our discussion on that.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

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