Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

Leiva · 29-11-2012 12:08AM

mike65 wrote: »

Why so pessimistic?

Maybe I'm a glass have empty guy but every week that passes those two points of hope get grasped on by more and more fans, as the results don't come in.
I'm not one of them, and I can't see any major changes from this til seasons end? If anything they could get worse (eg) Suarezs goals dry up . We are fooked and scarly fooked.

whatawaster · 29-11-2012 12:09AM

Are we a better team than last season? Overall, the points tally would say no. But that can't be appropriately judged until we have played every team twice.

But we are a better team than we were in the second half of last season.

With or without Rodgers, we have an excellent foundation of young players to move forward over the next few years. I don't think that would have ever happened under Dalglish, but that's just my view.

Yes, short term Dirk Kuyt and Craig Bellamy would likely have us a few points better off this season. But sooner or later we had to look long term (not that those players wanted to be here though)

K-9 · 29-11-2012 12:10AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

What has any of the above to do with:

- playing Gerrard in a deep lying role when anyone paying a small bit of attention knows it's not his best position and will hamper the very style the manager wishes to implement;
- knackering Sterling;
- playing Downing at left back;
- playing Borrini out wide;
- describing tonight's performance as "magnificent", "outstanding" and "relentless";

?

Time to face up to your boy's handling of team affairs. 24 competitive games under the belt now...

Your boys wasting of a £100 Million is a disgrace to this club.

Lucas injured, Dalglish never thought of covering that area, deployed Spearing instead.
Lucas is injured, Spearing and Adam was the Dalglish choice.
Nope, Sterling is young, Dalglish never played him in the Carling Cup.
I suppose we've to try and find a purpose for a £20 Million pound dud.
Kenny always supported the team, Suarez anybody you can support a team too much alright. Seems that line is a lot stronger for Dalglish?

Rodegers looks as astute as Kenny on the sidelines, which isn't saying much.

mada999 · 29-11-2012 12:11AM

daithijjj wrote: »

Hope FSG are watching..........

yup been the same since Hodge, Kenny and Brendan were about...........

LuckyLloyd · 29-11-2012 12:11AM

mada999 wrote: »

I asked you what can he do with the players he has, Mr. Alan you can chip in too if you want.

About lowering of expectations, Hodgo started that and Kenny continued that in the league*

LuckyLloyd what formation and team should we play?

Robinson would be higher in my LB depth chart (Downing wouldn't be in it!!)
Gerrard would be no deeper than behind Suarez
Sterling would be more protected
Borrini wouldn't be playing where he was played
I would have left more striking depth in place last summer

these are the really obvious bugbears that seem so instantly fixable.

doc_17 · 29-11-2012 12:12AM

I have taken a bit of flak for giving out about Joe Allen in a previous few match threads. I don't care. He is a nice little player. That's about it.

LuckyLloyd · 29-11-2012 12:14AM

doc_17 wrote: »

I have taken a bit of flak for giving out about Joe Allen in a previous few match threads. I don't care. He is a nice little player. That's about it.

Paid over the odds, as I said at the time.

doc_17 · 29-11-2012 12:14AM

We've won 3 from 14. Shocking.

Kess73 · 29-11-2012 12:14AM

Not sure why the first 14 games from last season are being used as the comparison for the first 14 games this season.

Seems more logical to compare the last 14 league games last season to the first 14 games this season in order to see what got better/worse.

First 14 league games under Rodgers

Won 3
Drew 7
lost 4

Points 16

Last 14 league games under Kenny

Won 4
Drew 1
Lost 9

Points 10

So if looked at, our form has actually improved on how it became under Kenny, but the improvement to date has been a long way from being good enough.

We are currently better in the league than the shambles we became in the second half of this season, but Rodgers really needs a good second half to the league campaign, and he can only get a fair crack at that, imho, if the owners pull their fingers out and back him in January. Until then I think this team is going to p1ss and fart it's way towards the transfer window.

I stand by the post I made after the Swansea game about our midfield and how I think that even with Lucas back we need another quality midfielder in.

Gerrard is not up to the deeper CM role. He may well be capable of being very effective in an attacking midfield role or in an even more advanced slot, but until Rodgers starts using him there we are going to see a leggy Gerrard that is no longer physically capable of playing well in CM.

Allen looks knackered at the moment, and really looks like a player that has been playing game after game with ghosts alongside him. He has been doing the workload of two midfielders game in game out and boy is it showing now.

Henderson has shown a huge improvement in attitude this season, and he runs around a lot, but what exactly does he offer in midfield? Poor in an attacking midfield position, poor in a DM position, and pretty much a ghost in a CM, slot. He may be 22 and full of energy, but he is miles behind even a badly faded Gerrard in CM and is totally void of any initiative on the pitch.

Our defence is ok, but there has to be question marks over Pepe (although he is still easily the best keeper at the club) and also over whether we need a quality full back.

Up front we have the usual lack of something. We need at least one more goal threat in the team, and if we could get two then fantastic.

Same old same old though. Every damn season we seem to have glaring gaps in midfield and in the attacking third, and every bloody window we are wondering why those gaps are still there. Kenny tried to fill those gaps and brought in players for the trouble positions, but the pity is that three of the bigger buys turned out to be rubbish purchases in Carroll, Downing, and Henderson. But whether people want to blame Kenny or Comolli (or both) the end result was big wages and big transfer fees for players that are barely squad player level.

Then we had this summer with lots of talk about money to spend and well we know how that ended.

Someone earlier in the thread said somthing along the lines of how we are a better team than our 12th placing in the league suggests. I disagree as the league table is generally accurate and to this point in the season we are where we deserve to be.

January is massive (although how many times has that been rolled out about a transfer window over the past three or four years?) but all we can do between now and January 31st is pretty much bear things and lick our wounds. Told you so and similar comments are pretty useless at this point of the season because at this point last season I reckon nobody saw Kenny leading the team to a complete and utter collapse in the seond half of the season, so it is just as feasible with a good transfer window that we might have a decent to good second half of the season after a horrible start, although one could argue the same rot could just go on.

January, Owners, January, Owners. I feel that one way or the other it really is that simple now.

mike65 · 29-11-2012 12:16AM

Leiva wrote: »

Maybe I'm a glass have empty guy but every week that passes those two points of hope get grasped on by more and more fans, as the results don't come in.
I'm not one of them, and I can't see any major changes from this til seasons end? If anything they could get worse (eg) Suarezs goals dry up . We are fooked and scarly fooked.

Maybe I'm a glass half full type, but I'm patient about this club and why its taking time, I never saw any great breakthrough to much better results this season so I'm not downbeat about it, Lucas back WILL make a difference to the balance of the side and obviously a striker or two won't hurt either. When I look I'm looking beyond the results even beyond the current squad, there is so much good happening at LFC but if people get fixated on each games scoreline they probably don't see most of it.

Speaking of the future, this lot should have thumped Dortmund by six.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkcK76KnLXE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocBKNnqdenA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhC1O251Okc

passremarkable · 29-11-2012 12:16AM

doc_17 wrote: »

I have taken a bit of flak for giving out about Joe Allen in a previous few match threads. I don't care. He is a nice little player. That's about it.

he is just not dirty enough yet, bit too nice but i think tat will come, you need a bit of filth in midfield just to set the tone...but were lacking a bit from midfield up..need more goal scoring options, simple as

K-9 · 29-11-2012 12:17AM

Rodgers is under the same owners as Kenny, and with far more restrictions, so enough wiith the ownership excuses. Same owners, same conditions, well except Kenny got to waste near a £100 Million.

Kess73 · 29-11-2012 12:18AM

mike65 wrote: »

Maybe I'm a glass half full type, but I'm patient about this club and why its taking time, I never saw any great breakthrough to much better results this season so I'm not downbeat about it, Lucas back WILL make a difference to the balance of the side and obviously a striker or two won't hurt either. When I look I'm looking beyond the results even beyond the current squad, there is so much good happening at LFC but if people get fixated on each games scoreline they probably don't see most of it.

Speaking of the future, this lot should have thumped Dortmund by six.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkcK76KnLXE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocBKNnqdenA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhC1O251Okc

Was watching that on Eurosport. They made a good young Dortmund team look ordinary.

Lot of sense in the rest of your post also.

LuckyLloyd · 29-11-2012 12:20AM

Over this first 14 games we've put little or no effort into Cup runs, the focus has been on the league. We had no European football before Christmas last year either.

Over the last 14 league games we were embroiled in two emotional cup runs that went the distance. People keep ignoring this, but it was definitely a factor in our poor league performances, and it makes it reasonable to look a year back to see progression / regression.

doc_17 · 29-11-2012 12:20AM

Kess73 wrote: »

Not sure why the first 14 games from last season are being used as the comparison for the first 14 games this season.

Seems more logical to compare the last 14 league games last season to the first 14 games this season in order to see what got better/worse.

First 14 league games under Rodgers

Won 3
Drew 7
lost 4

Points 16

Last 14 league games under Kenny

Won 4
Drew 1
Lost 9

Points 10

So if looked at, our form has actually improved on how it became under Kenny, but the improvement to date has been a long way from being good enough.

We are currently better in the league than the shambles we became in the second half of this season, but Rodgers really needs a good second half to the league campaign, and he can only get a fair crack at that, imho, if the owners pull their fingers out and back him in January. Until then I think this team is going to p1ss and fart it's way towards the transfer window.

I stand by the post I made after the Swansea game about our midfield and how I think that even with Lucas back we need another quality midfielder in.

Gerrard is not up to the deeper CM role. He may well be capable of being very effective in an attacking midfield role or in an even more advanced slot, but until Rodgers starts using him there we are going to see a leggy Gerrard that is no longer physically capable of playing well in CM.

Allen looks knackered at the moment, and really looks like a player that has been playing game after game with ghosts alongside him. He has been doing the workload of two midfielders game in game out and boy is it showing now.

Henderson has shown a huge improvement in attitude this season, and he runs around a lot, but what exactly does he offer in midfield? Poor in an attacking midfield position, poor in a DM position, and pretty much a ghost in a CM, slot. He may be 22 and full of energy, but he is miles behind even a badly faded Gerrard in CM and is totally void of any initiative on the pitch.

Our defence is ok, but there has to be question marks over Pepe (although he is still easily the best keeper at the club) and also over whether we need a quality full back.

Up front we have the usual lack of something. We need at least one more goal threat in the team, and if we could get two then fantastic.

Same old same old though. Every damn season we seem to have glaring gaps in midfield and in the attacking third, and every bloody window we are wondering why those gaps are still there. Kenny tried to fill those gaps and brought in players for the trouble positions, but the pity is that three of the bigger buys turned out to be rubbish purchases in Carroll, Downing, and Henderson. But whether people want to blame Kenny or Comolli (or both) the end result was big wages and big transfer fees for players that are barely squad player level.

Then we had this summer with lots of talk about money to spend and well we know how that ended.

Someone earlier in the thread said somthing along the lines of how we are a better team than our 12th placing in the league suggests. I disagree as the league table is generally accurate and to this point in the season we are where we deserve to be.

January is massive (although how many times has that been rolled out about a transfer window over the past three or four years?) but all we can do between now and January 31st is pretty much bear things and lick our wounds. Told you so and similar comments are pretty useless at this point of the season because at this point last season I reckon nobody saw Kenny leading the team to a complete and utter collapse in the seond half of the season, so it is just as feasible with a good transfer window that we might have a decent to good second half of the season after a horrible start, although one could argue the same rot could just go on.

January, Owners, January, Owners. I feel that one way or the other it really is that simple now.

10 from 14 was poor. So is 16 from 14. This isn't necessarily critical of the manager, but of the club as a whole. Investment is vital. Other clubs will not stand still in January yet many are holding out for a striker to boost our position. The owners need to step up here.

mada999 · 29-11-2012 12:20AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Robinson would be higher in my LB depth chart (Downing wouldn't be in it!!)
Gerrard would be no deeper than behind Suarez
Sterling would be more protected
Borrini wouldn't be playing where he was played
I would have left more striking depth in place last summer

these are the really obvious bugbears that seem so instantly fixable.

Downing at left back - very poor positioning for the goal, maybe robbo should be given a chance. But apart from the goal there was not threat, it could of have happened to Robbo too.

Gerrard - agree with you there his legs are gone and should be played further up the pitch

Sterling, was he not being protected by our best right back? or do you mean he should play less, if so who should drop in?

Borini - looks like a dud alright, but our previous managers bought duds for more dosh

Striking depth - do you mean we should keep AC £35m bought by our previous manager in the team? or do you mean FSG should give us more dosh to buy attacking talent

it's a tough one, but i think it boils down to FSG putting more money in and our managers buying sensibly with no more mistakes.

K-9 · 29-11-2012 12:21AM

[QUOTE=Leiva;81985575
That paragraph posted earlier (from Rawk I think) was spot on-why are we always looking forward?
Look at the now and 16 from 42 points is disgraceful for the players available to Rodgers no matter how thin the squad is.
He is under performing and to say otherwise is deluded ( hate using that word!)[/QUOTE]

Stop reading RAWK.

whatawaster · 29-11-2012 12:22AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Over this first 14 games we've put little or no effort into Cup runs, the focus has been on the league. We had no European football before Christmas last year either.

Over the last 14 league games we were embroiled in two emotional cup runs that went the distance. People keep ignoring this, but it was definitely a factor in our poor league performances, and it makes it reasonable to look a year back to see progression / regression.

Yeah . . . and last year Dalglish had loads of money to spend and was allowed to maintain a huge wage bill. This year, Rodgers hasn't

Last year Dalglish had Lucas for the first 14 games. This year Rodgers hasn't

Factors.

mike65 · 29-11-2012 12:22AM

Kess73 wrote: »

Was watching that on Eurosport. They made a good young Dortmund team look ordinary.

Weird game really, LFC were never in top gear, never needed to be yet it was Dortmund, who were better placed to advance in the competition, who didn't really ever get going. Coady and Morgan wasted at least one good scoring chance each. Ibe is really promising I have to say, the full backs were great as well but they weren't under any real pressure tonight.

missingtime · 29-11-2012 12:23AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

The excuses being bandied about for Rodgers performance in the job this far are quite incredible.

He is performing appallingly in his job, there's no other way to dress it up.

But what's he supposed to do Alan? He can't put the ball in the net for them. We didn't take our chances and we don't have enough quality to score. We needed Gareth bales face to get us a goal.

I for one second dont think that Brendan is the messiah but this evening we had plenty of chances, maybe that was spurs sitting back, but at least we were attacking.

Same as last year with Dalglish.

And if we are placing our bets on moving Gerrard, someone who's obviously so tired, then we really are ****ed.

No one knows what to do.

murpho999 · 29-11-2012 12:24AM

Really getting fed up with the same posts here after every game.

We are at the start of rebuilding process as the squad has been in serious decline for the last 3 years, beginning in Rafa's last season and culminating in serious transfer errors under Kenny and Comoli.

How people expect that to be turned around after a new manager has had one transfer window, which he was let down in, and 14 league games is beyond me it really is.

Have to be in this for the long haul and realise that it's going to take time and there will be pain along the way.

It doesn't mean that standard's have dropped or being average is acceptable but it just all has to be done in small steps.

Leiva · 29-11-2012 12:25AM

K-9 wrote: »

Stop reading RAWK.

I don't it was posted in here but quoted from Rawk and it made sense. To me in anyways.

I am very annoyed by the result tonight because I know it will have season long consequences, as i said earlier there are certain games that seasons turn on and i think that was one of them

my worry is that rodgers will continue to deliver all the feelgood propoganda, so much so that the fans will be duped into thinking midtable is acceptable

my further worry is we will be continuing to wait and wait and wait for success as more midtable seasons follow as rodgers continues to bang on about long-term goals until 3 or 4 years down the line we are in exactly the same position

something needs to change, either the management improves the results of the team drastically or fsg make big money available - if neither of those things happen then liverpool will continue their descent to midtable team status and fsg and rodgers will have failed us - at the moment they are failing us

Mr Alan · 29-11-2012 12:25AM

Kess, that is total bull**** re: last 14 games for Kenny being the ones to compare to Rodgers first 14 games. Total bull****. Games towards seasons end are often dull & pointless affairs when there is nothing on the line in them, as there was for much of the games you're referring to. Same cant be said for Rodgers run of games.

Far more accurate to compare;

1) first 14 games of last season
2) Kenny's first 14 games after arriving

Similarly for those saying "oh Lucas is out so it's not fair to compare", well we've brought 40m odd worth of central midfielders into the squad since last season so it's not surprising to see we are coping a little better with his loss.

Despite all the waxing lyrical about long term, blah blah, yada young players yada....if our results over the next 6 weeks don't improve dramatically, Rodgers may last less time than Hodgson.

K-9 · 29-11-2012 12:27AM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Paid over the odds, as I said at the time.

About the same money as Henderson, I'd take Allen all day long. Allen has brains and looks around him.

passremarkable · 29-11-2012 12:27AM

Alan,
We cant go blame rogers for all this, he has inherited most of this,and afterall the players have to produce bewteen the white lines..no excuses.he has them set up to play nice and create chances its up to them to slot them in..its that simple!

billybudd · 29-11-2012 12:30AM

What is really frustrating is the fact that it is such a inconsistent league this year with no team standing out and with our team and better management then we really should be pushing and battling for fourth and higher.

5starpool · 29-11-2012 12:31AM

passremarkable wrote: »

Alan,
We cant go blame rogers for all this, he has inherited most of this,and afterall the players have to produce bewteen the white lines..no excuses.he has them set up to play nice and create chances its up to them to slot them in..its that simple!

Did we not create loads of chances last season as well but fail to convert them? It's nearly the exact same thing as last year except people are defending the things the attacked last year, and attacing the things they defended.

K-9 · 29-11-2012 12:32AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Kess, that is total bull**** re: last 14 games for Kenny being the ones to compare to Rodgers first 14 games. Total bull****. Games towards seasons end are often dull & pointless affairs when there is nothing on the line in them, as there was for much of the games you're referring to. Same cant be said for Rodgers run of games.

Far more accurate to compare;

1) first 14 games of last season
2) Kenny's first 14 games after arriving

Similarly for those saying "oh Lucas is out so it's not fair to compare", well we've brought 40m odd worth of central midfielders into the squad since last season so it's not surprising to see we are coping a little better with his loss.

Despite all the waxing lyrical about long term, blah blah, yada young players yada....if our results over the next 6 weeks don't improve dramatically, Rodgers may last less time than Hodgson.

Complete Bullshyte Alan.

Rodgers won as many games as Kenny did at home during the second half of last season.

We were high up at Christmas, you telling us Kenny gave up on 4th at Xmas.

Cop yourself on. Kenny knew cup runs was all he had. Not good enough for a sustained run at 4th but put 10 men behind the ball like at City and you might win a Carling Cup.

Worked for Chelsea.

BorneTobyWilde · 29-11-2012 12:33AM

"I thought we were absolutely magnificent. I don't think we can come here and play any better than that," Rodgers said.

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/181450.html

Mr Alan · 29-11-2012 12:35AM

passremarkable wrote: »

Alan,
We cant go blame rogers for all this, he has inherited most of this,and afterall the players have to produce bewteen the white lines..no excuses.he has them set up to play nice and create chances its up to them to slot them in..its that simple!

Total bull****.

The players Rodgers inherited & the players he now has at his disposal should be doing a lot better than they are.

Fair to shirk blame to the players on a short term basis however we're approaching 30 games in charge, much of the 30 playing out in a pretty similar pattern. Focus should be shifted to the manager at this point.

I like Rodgers, I really hope he works out. He's a guy I could definitely believe in, in a romantic football fan kinda way. However when he arrived, a real concern was that he was a flavour of the month riding the crest of a wave he was not responsible for & could play a good PR game, everything we've seen so far this season seems to indicate that this may be the case, which is catastrophic news for the club.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

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