P.T. Anderson's "The Master" (2012)

Banjaxed82 · 19-11-2012 1:06pm

I saw it last night. Thought it was really good. Unbelievable acting all round. Devoid of a solid spine to grasp on to, which is its primary failing with a mainstream audience.

There was a MASSIVE walkout at the point where Hoffman said something to the affect of "...that will be in my 2nd book". It was as if some signal went off and people from different parts of the cinema just upped and left. Creepy out.

I can understand in a way. The mass audience wants a structure that's tangible and a story that makes sense, because life doesn't. They want a happy ending because life doesn't have them - only happy moments but no "freeze frames". The mass audience wants people to change over the course of the film because most people don't change in real life.

Yet to see any of the Twilight films but I can understand why the mass audience prefer those films, especially anybody under 16.

e_e · 19-11-2012 1:25pm

^This is why I tend to go to such films on a weekday afternoon in an independent cinema, little chance of somebody else spoiling the experience just because it's not what THEY paid to see and want to go out of their way to prove that fact to everyone else in the audience. :rolleyes:

Although when I saw it there was some jackass sighing in a passive aggressive way throughout the movie. To the extent where it almost added to the film's discordant soundtrack. :pac:

Da Shins Kelly · 19-11-2012 1:53pm

I really don't understand why anyone who went to see this film would walk out. I mean, you only have to read one review or even a synopsis to know that it's not going to be your run of the mill, easy-going film. I haven't even seen it yet, and I know it's going to be a challenge. Surely people would have realised this before paying to see it?

snausages · 19-11-2012 2:19pm

Kinski wrote: »

"I've got this script about a guy who returns from the war in the Pacific, suffering from PTSD, with a propensity for violence, and an addiction to drinking paint thinner. Oh, he's also kind of a sexual deviant. He falls under the spell of a charismatic cult leader, and what unfolds is a rambling, episodic, almost plotless meditation on the traumatic affects of war, substance abuse, religious mania..."

"Stop right there, son. I don't need to hear more. This is exactly the sort of film today's easy-to-please teen audience can relate to. Let me get the studio's massive cheque book out. Will $200m be enough? I've got a feeling this is going to be bigger than Transformers!"

Is he not talking about pseudo-intellectual early 20s types? I haven't seen it yet and I'm greatly interested in checking it out but I'm not sure he's talking about the average, brain-dead teenager.

Sounds right up my street anyway. I enjoy a challenging film even if it doesn't fulfill many of its pretensions. Might check it out on my ownsome though.

S.M.B. · 19-11-2012 3:03pm

A lot of people wouldn't know the firs thing about reviews and Joaquin Phoenix is a big enough name to get a few arses on seats.

Similar situation to the Tree of Life/Brad Pitt furore of last year.

johnny_ultimate · 19-11-2012 5:25pm

I think the Tree of Life is the perfect comparison here - there's only a handful of distinctive films like this that manage to get into multiplexes due to the casting, director etc... This is easily one of the strangest and most experimental films made anywhere this year - albeit with a bigger budget and some names that are easy to slap onto a poster (on that note, I absolutely love the Rorschach blot poster for this). Yes, it's very easy to get depressed at the dreck filling up screens in place of this (and I'm sure even plenty of suitably prepared viewers won't be fond of this), but alas wider audiences just aren't interested in lengthy, obtuse arthouse films like this or Tree of Life. In an ideal world, they of course would be, but an ideal world it isn't. And The Master is still going to make lots more money than most of its independent / world piers - PT Anderson is a relatively big directorial name. I guess it's simply our duty as film fans to support, promote and discuss films like it however we can.

Miguel_Sanchez · 19-11-2012 5:37pm

I'm looking forward to this one.

Although I saw someone declare on Facebook that it was a boring film (possibly a fair point - haven't seen it yet) and it wasn't an arthouse film because it was easy to understand (say wha?)

Kinski · 19-11-2012 6:08pm

snausages wrote: »

Is he not talking about pseudo-intellectual early 20s types? I haven't seen it yet and I'm greatly interested in checking it out but I'm not sure he's talking about the average, brain-dead teenager.

He said:

an easy-to-satisfy youth market that doesn’t care what it’s watching as long as the projectors keep running

Doesn't sound like "pseudo-intellectual early 20s types" to me, and even if that was what he meant, they aren't the primary target market for Hollywood movies - teenagers are.

He's just in rant mode, and clearly talking out of his rear.

Handsome Bob · 20-11-2012 9:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolutely disgusted that a number of cinemas arent screening this bit have the newest Twilight on three or four screens. I asked in my local cinema why there was only two screenings a day, the answer "no one has any interest in pretentious artsy crap like that". Kinda made me die a little inside.

Seriously? I hope you made a complaint, if I got such a response I wouldn't be wasting any time in telling them that I won't be visiting their cinema ever again.

Going to see this tomorrow in my local Odeon anyway. It has a total of 3 viewings, Twilight has.......14. :pac: I understand why they have so many viewings of the latter and they obviously want to get the maximum return out of such a popular franchise, so the only thing that really disgusts me about your post Darko is the attitude you were met with.

e_e · 20-11-2012 9:42pm

It ended up in the top 5 at least. Hopefully it'll be like The Tree of Life in showing up later around the country.

johnny_ultimate · 21-11-2012 12:08am

Film hasn't done too badly here at all TBH: http://www.thisisirishfilm.ie/box_office/ Better per screen average than Madagascar 3, and on par with Argo. Fourteen screens around the country (although probably around 10 of them are in Dublin :rolleyes:) is far, far more than most films of this type receive. We can grumble and moan, but being perfectly honest if your cinema is showing this at all - even if it's just a screening or two a day - that's better than nothing, especially facing competition from a box office machine such as Twilight.

Meanwhile, Amour opened in a frankly insulting two screens. That is a ****ing outrage for the latest film from perhaps Europe's single-most acclaimed director.

On a completely different note, forgot to mention Pierce Brosnan was supposedly in the same screening of this I was at (according to our friend who was waiting outside). Kinda want to know what he thought of it.

Mickeroo · 21-11-2012 12:14am

Didn't even know this was out yet, unlikely i'll et to see it on the big screen.

Neeson · 21-11-2012 8:16pm

I suppose the film was OK but it was terribly bland and in no way entertaining. I suppose not all films are happy films but that just has to be the worst 2.5 hours I've spent in a cinema. I actually nearly fell asleep a few times and I wouldn't have missed much if I took a half-hour nap in between.

LuckyLloyd · 22-11-2012 8:35am

Though it was amazing. Gorgeously shot with two tremendous performances. Scientology is in play here - but the film is more generally about the power of raw charisma and how a post war landscape opens up certain opportunities. I didn't find the pace difficult at all, but there were numerous walkouts and fidgeting.

I'd go and see it again without question.

Da Shins Kelly · 22-11-2012 8:37am

It makes me sad that there are people who get to see it and walked out, and I don't get to see it at all.

Ranelite · 22-11-2012 8:41am

Neeson wrote: »

I suppose the film was OK but it was terribly bland and in no way entertaining. I suppose not all films are happy films but that just has to be the worst 2.5 hours I've spent in a cinema. I actually nearly fell asleep a few times and I wouldn't have missed much if I took a half-hour nap in between.

I had a similar experience.... Phoenix was brilliant - transformed even. However, the film itself is too drawn out.

Handsome Bob · 22-11-2012 6:50pm

I found the film to be very gruelling and punishing. By the final 30 minutes I was willing it to end, whether that was the intention I do not know so I'm not sure what to make of it just yet.

Having said that the film has some of the best scenes of the year, I particularly enjoyed the first processing scene between Lancaster and Freddy. Absolutely amazing stuff from Phoenix and Hoffman.

johnny_ultimate · 22-11-2012 7:09pm

Definitely think it's intentionally grueling, for better or worse. The character battles in the film are hard fought and subtle, and the film needs the space to let those conflicts breathe. Take that brilliant centerpiece processing scene mentioned above - the amount of drama and insight in that scene, and all it really is is ten-fifteen minutes of characters talking (plus a flashback for good measure). The repetition of Dodd's process is punishing for both Freddie and the audience - how it should be.

The most challenging section of the film is definitely around the eighty-ninety minute mark, just prior to

the book launch and motorocycle exodus

. What we learn about the characters in these segments is vital leading up to the resolution, though - the scene of Adams and Hoffman in the mirror, for example.

Can understand the perspective of anyone who thought it was dull or infuriating. Personally I did appreciate the challenge and am looking forward to watching it again in a few months to unpack Anderson's less obvious tricks.

Kinski · 22-11-2012 9:37pm

IMO, the "challenge" of watching this film is being overstated a little. Yes, it is long, and there were a few walkouts during the screening I attended too, but despite the slow pace and lack of action I was thoroughly absorbed. I also found it a quite funny film, for what it's worth...

johnny_ultimate · 22-11-2012 9:55pm

Yes, it is quite amusing indeed, especially the opening sequence which might be the least flattering protagonist introduction imaginable

It's safe to say that a big problem with films like this or The Tree of Life is that more casual audiences will probably be caught off guard. Those of us familiar with PT Anderson's style will of course be aware of what to generally expect - even if it's extremely unrushed and reflective even by his standards (There Will Be Blood did, in contrast, have a rather high body count). Getting caught off guard can be a good thing, but hopefully an audience with general expectations that they're letting themselves in for something non-traditional and uniquely paced will be primed to get the most out of the experience.

e_e · 22-11-2012 11:03pm

Put me in the camp who wasn't bored by a single second of it. It seemed that the film was always just a few minutes away from an amusing outburst (the Jail scene in particular was f'in hilarious) or disturbing revelation about Freddie. Not a wasted moment and I'd go so far as calling it one of the more entertaining that I've seen all year. It's also exciting to see a relatively mainstream film that's this unique and adventurous.

stealinhorses · 24-11-2012 11:43pm

Definitely a very strong film, with massive performances from Phoenix and Hoffman.

However, I did feel it lacked a final punch to it, something drastic a la "There Will Be Blood".

Some parts I didn't get at all, and would have to rewatch the film to fully understand. For example -

the scene where all women in the room gradually become naked. Also, all scenes with songs and references to Doris. Just couldn't really gauge the impact of her character on Freddie in comparison with Dodd's influence on his life after the war.

Definitely up for a re-watch in a few months.

Chancer3001 · 25-11-2012 1:06am

saw it tonight. Id give it 1/10 The one being for Phoenix's amazing acting job.

But, its a terribly drawn out story, very slowly paced, nothing concrete to keep the attention, numerous walkouts again and overall is just a dull film.

Wouldnt go to see it again if you payed me

fruvai · 25-11-2012 1:12am

Chancer3001 wrote: »

saw it tonight. Id give it 1/10 The one being for Phoenix's amazing acting job.

But, its a terribly drawn out story, very slowly paced, nothing concrete to keep the attention, numerous walkouts again and overall is just a dull film.

Wouldnt go to see it again if you payed me

It can't be that bad - what about the cinematography and the score?

Neeson · 25-11-2012 2:54am

fruvai wrote: »

It can't be that bad - what about the cinematography and the score?

I'd agree about it being drawn out and the performance being good, etc.

I suppose the cinematography might have been good, I couldn't tell you. But as a man going to a film and wanting to be entertained, I wasn't. It doesn't have to be a happy film with a nice little ending to be entertaining. It doesn't have to have a really simple story either. But something that by the end of the film you know pretty much most of what was going on.

For this show you're still sitting there after two hours waiting for something significant to happen. You just want it to finish because you know nothing of note is going to happen between this point and the end.

Probably in the top 3 or 4 worst film I've seen in the past decade. A chick flick would be a better watch. Even if it had a storyline similar to dozens of other films.

e_e · 25-11-2012 3:27am

Neeson wrote: »

But something that by the end of the film you know pretty much most of what was going on.

What was so confusing to you about it? It's a pretty disorienting experience alright (much to the film's credit imo) but I think narratively it's very straightforward.

johnny_ultimate · 25-11-2012 1:37pm

Hyperbolic accusations like '1/10' IMO should be reserved for films that don't even have the decency to be shot in focus, like The Expendables 2

But yes, while individual scenes in The Master are puzzling and left up to the viewer to decipher - a trait which should only be encouraged in a world where poorly written exposition force-feeds us explanations to an almost condescending level - the story is at its core just two characters engaged in a strange and dynamic power struggle, full of mini-defeats and mini-victories. Underneath all the unconventional pacing and peculiar tangents, the story is simple and engaging.

Someone above mentioned the score. After four major films scored by Greenwood I still am unsure what to think of his very particular style. His collaborations with Anderson have clearly been the most fruitful - definitely gelling with the director's weird, distinctive sense of storytelling. But the whole discordant music trick wore much thinner with Norwegian Wood, actively damaging the film if anything, and I wonder if he's basically a one-trick pony? Still, some very memorable and haunting compositions in The Master, particularly the one featured prominently in the trailers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SwGs96-s_I

Da Shins Kelly · 25-11-2012 1:59pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Someone above mentioned the score. After four major films scored by Greenwood I still am unsure what to think of his very particular style. His collaborations with Anderson have clearly been the most fruitful - definitely gelling with the director's weird, distinctive sense of storytelling. But the whole discordant music trick wore much thinner with Norwegian Wood, actively damaging the film if anything, and I wonder if he's basically a one-trick pony? Still, some very memorable and haunting compositions in The Master, particularly the one featured prominently in the trailers.

I've only heard the music on the trailers, and I thought it sounded great. I loved the music on There Will Be Blood too. It's kind of unsettling music, but it still compliments the film, rather than seeming intrusive. I haven't heard his other compositions, but his partnership with Anderson seems pretty perfect.

e_e · 25-11-2012 2:21pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hp-4pkCfg0

This may be my favorite piece of film music ever.

Cactus Colm · 26-11-2012 11:30am

Saw this yesterday morning in Cineworld. Not a big crowd there, and didn't notice any walkouts.

Thought it was absolutely brilliant, the interactions between Phoenix and Hoffman were captivating. Amy Ryan was great in it too.

P.T. Anderson's "The Master" (2012)

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