Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

keano_afc · 11-11-2012 01:49PM

https://twitter.com/ScottyDavisAFC

Have a read through his timeline from about 18 hours ago. Its a bit of a rant but spot on.

emergingstar · 11-11-2012 02:12PM

keano_afc wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ScottyDavisAFC

Have a read through his timeline from about 18 hours ago. Its a bit of a rant but spot on.

http://t.co/djF6OEwP

Here is a blog he wrote about the rant
Nail on the head

MaxPower89 · 11-11-2012 02:37PM

Good article here on the managers reluctance to be more flexible in terms of team formation, adapting to the opposition etc.

1nildown2oneup.net/never-mind-give-us-our-old-arsenal-back-we-need-our-old-arsene-back

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 11-11-2012 02:50PM

tayto lover wrote: »

My problem with Wenger is that --

2. He is too slow to address signings (we need a keeper badly, he didn't sign a proper DM to replace Song. Teams having more chances against us is down to this in my opinion)

.

Apparently we tried to sign Cesar in the summer, http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/165/8241699/cesar-claims-arsenal-talks

He would have been great back up.

tayto lover · 11-11-2012 02:53PM

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

Apparently we tried to sign Cesar in the summer, http://www.sportinglife.com/football/news/article/165/8241699/cesar-claims-arsenal-talks

He would have been great back up.

Yes but i'm surprised we didn't move for someone else when he went to QPR.
The problem still existed and certainly still does now.

wonga77 · 11-11-2012 04:49PM

emergingstar wrote: »

http://t.co/djF6OEwP

Here is a blog he wrote about the rant
Nail on the head

Excellent read, Agree completely with every single word. A read that probably sums up the thoughts of 99% of the clubs fans

Galvasean · 11-11-2012 04:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The Arsenal's in the blood and it'll always remain, but it's tough to call myself an "Arsenal fan" these days. I find myself not rushing home or to the pub to watch us play anymore. Maybe it's also age creeping up on me, because I find they're not on my list of prioritis anymore.

Kinda sad.

I feel the same. I no longer watch Arsenal matches with excitement. It feels more like a sense of duty.

emergingstar · 11-11-2012 07:28PM

Jenks is after signing a 5 yr deal

tayto lover · 11-11-2012 07:34PM

The only good thing from the weekend is that Spurs didn't widen the gap.

batistuta9 · 11-11-2012 08:03PM

Galvasean wrote: »

I feel the same. I no longer watch Arsenal matches with excitement. It feels more like a sense of duty.

you should have plenty of experience with that thank's to the ROI :pac:

batistuta9 · 11-11-2012 08:06PM

tayto lover wrote: »

The only good thing from the weekend is that Spurs didn't widen the gap.

& Giroud got a couple, 6 in his last 8 i read

+ at least we equalized, could've bottled it completely.

keano_afc · 11-11-2012 08:24PM

tayto lover wrote: »

The only good thing from the weekend is that Spurs didn't widen the gap.

Well, not until they beat us next weekend.

Genuinely, can you see us winning?

emergingstar · 11-11-2012 08:31PM

keano_afc wrote: »

Well, not until they beat us next weekend.

Genuinely, can you see us winning?

Actually yes with jack getting the winner

KINGVictor · 11-11-2012 09:11PM

I actually suffered a bout of depression after that match against Fulham and I completely understand the criticism leveled against Arsene and the Board. However, I still feel that some positions and comments against Wenger is a bit unfair because I think he is doing the best he can given the circimstances, being the man that he is- tight lipped, diplomatic and all that, we may not know the extent of the challenges he is facing at the moment.

Some posters keep talking about the amount of financial resources he has at his disposal- but is this actually true? I dont think he will purposely let go of his best players because he refuses to negotiate higher wages and/or prefered positions with them. There has to be some explanations for all these mess and my suspision is he doesnt have that freedom that coaches like Alex Ferguson enjoys at United i.e. the ability to put names forward and the club management go to every length to sign the players OR more relevantly the ability to ensure that our best players are kept at all cost e.g. the Rooney case of 2010. Dont get me wrong, I am not absolving him of blame here; the reality is that he has practically turned to the spokesman of the board which is quite unfortunate to be honest and might come across as maintaining or sustaining his personal selfish interests. I am actually questioning his commitment to the club but I know he is very competitive and would not allow the club to fall into utter disarray. Arsene's fundamental philosophy of encouraging youth development is well intentioned and worked well for the likes of Ajax, Barcelona and even Arsenal in the 90s but the current reality is that clubs have to spend money to get quality players to remain competitive.

However, putting all these into perspective, I share the views of posters who say that replacing Wenger would not solve the problem; I think it will make it worse- almost to a diasater level! Let us not forget,we dont have a coaching problem-far from it- Arsene is a magician! ( If you doubt it, please have a look at how we came 3rd last season), the issue is institutional mismanagment and an acute lack of vision mixed with misplaced financial objectives. Their stated objective is to continually qualify for the Champions league to attract players- what happens if we dont qualify fot the Championship this season? Years ago that possibility might have sounded as an absurdity or impossibility but it is increasingly looking that way. While we have retrogressed, Tottenham under incompetent AVB are not particularly performing badly, Everton looks the business and Newcastle with nearly a quarter of our budget are doing relatively well. We have got to the stage where even teams like Sunderland, Norwich, Fulham are not overwhelmed by playing Arsenal and are actually looking for wins against us- Frightening!

Arsene will leave in the near future and I pray he is succeded by a passionate ex- player with the required qualification like Dennis Berkamp. We dont need to spend too much on a manager like Pep in my opinion- waste of resources. Until that happens, I think the anger and frustration should directed at the board of managment who clearly do not share our passion for success- Arsene does.

tayto lover · 11-11-2012 09:19PM

keano_afc wrote: »

Well, not until they beat us next weekend.

Genuinely, can you see us winning?

No I can't to be honest. The Internationals this week will undoubtedly result in some players being injured or unfit to play. As someone already said Cazorla will be at the other side of the world on Wed and with all the travelling might not be available. We have the bare bones of a team at the moment and our bench showed that on Sat. We are leaking like a sieve at the back too.
Very happy with Giroud at present. He is settling in nicely, is intelligent and could be one of the best in the EPL by season's end.

Sergio · 11-11-2012 09:25PM

KINGVictor wrote: »

I actually suffered a bout of depression after that match against Fulham and I completely understand the criticism leveled against Arsene and the Board. However, I still feel that some positions and comments against Wenger is a bit unfair because I think he is doing the best he can given the circimstances, being the man that he is- tight lipped, diplomatic and all that, we may not know the extent of the challenges he is facing at the moment.

Some posters keep talking about the amount of financial resources he has at his disposal- but is this actually true? I dont think he will purposely let go of his best players because he refuses to negotiate higher wages and/or prefered positions with them. There has to be some explanations for all these mess and my suspision is he doesnt have that freedom that coaches like Alex Ferguson enjoys at United i.e. the ability to put names forward and the club management go to every length to sign the players OR more relevantly the ability to ensure that our best players are kept at all cost e.g. the Rooney case of 2010. Dont get me wrong, I am not absolving him of blame here; the reality is that he has practically turned to the spokesman of the board which is quite unfortunate to be honest and might come across as maintaining or sustaining his personal selfish interests. I am actually questioning his commitment to the club but I know he is very competitive and would not allow the club to fall into utter disarray. Arsene's fundamental philosophy of encouraging youth development is well intentioned and worked well for the likes of Ajax, Barcelona and even Arsenal in the 90s but the current reality is that clubs have to spend money to get quality players to remain competitive.

However, putting all these into perspective, I share the views of posters who say that replacing Wenger would not solve the problem; I think it will make it worse- almost to a diasater level! Let us not forget,we dont have a coaching problem-far from it- Arsene is a magician! ( If you doubt it, please have a look at how we came 3rd last season), the issue is institutional mismanagment and an acute lack of vision mixed with misplaced financial objectives. Their stated objective is to continually qualify for the Champions league to attract players- what happens if we dont qualify fot the Championship this season? Years ago that possibility might have sounded as an absurdity or impossibility but it is increasingly looking that way. While we have retrogressed, Tottenham under incompetent AVB are not particularly performing badly, Everton looks the business and Newcastle with nearly a quarter of our budget are doing relatively well. We have got to the stage where even teams like Sunderland, Norwich, Fulham are not overwhelmed by playing Arsenal and are actually looking for wins against us- Frightening!

Arsene will leave in the near future and I pray he is succeded by a passionate ex- player with the required qualification like Dennis Berkamp. We dont need to spend too much on a manager like Pep in my opinion- waste of resources. Until that happens, I think the anger and frustration should directed at the board of managment who clearly do not share our passion for success- Arsene does.

I agree with most of your points and think the board have an awful lot to answer for but maybe its time for change in the boardroom and on the pitch with a new management team coming in and for us to start with a clean slate.I just have no confidence in the current setup.

ugsparky · 11-11-2012 11:07PM

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

You make a lot of good points but I disagree with the first and second last paragraphs which are overly dramatic. I really don't see the attendance dropping that low, sure even today was a 'sell out' on tickets sold. And we are a big club, obviously not as big as the likes of United, Barca, Real but still a very stable club with a huge following and great financial potential when we get over the stadium hangover fully.

Sorry but you seem to miss my point. I'm suggesting that if we no longer:

compete top 4,
do not play in the Champions Lge,
continue to sell our best players to our biggest rivals,
Arsene decides not to try and win either the FA Cup or League Cup

and continually charge the highest prices in the Premiership to watch players who would fail to get into any of the Premiership's/Europe's biggest clubs, then our gates will fall. That's proven historically back in the seventies and early eighties when Arsenal were outside of the top 10. I know this because I got tickets to go and see these games - I still have the ticket stubbs.

Secondly - the Emirates was built as a platform to achieve success and to enable us to compete with Europe's biggest clubs, as Highbury did not generate enough income due to it's crowd limitations. This has often been stated as a principle reason for leaving Highbury and the Ashburton Grove development. If our crowd capacity were to fall to 45 - 50,000 that in effect means we are only operating at three quarters capacity - maybe not even the lucrative corporate financing three quarters capacity. As well as loss of revenue from Champions Lge, Premiership and TV, we will struggle to attract players and keep hold of those we have - as we have witnessed already. We could very quickly find ourselves mid-table. That my friend is not comparable to United, Barca or Real.

My main point was that whilst we made huge profit on players we bought for modest sums, the Board of Directors decided not to re-invest these profits back into the team. Instead they were happy to see us finish top 4 and watch Arsene buy more players at bargain prices knowing that inevitably we would sell these players for even more profit. Fine if you're running a business - not too good if your trying to win silverware or build a fanbase.

Just as an aside - do you think that all the lucrative Far East, South American and Middle East/Arabic markets will see Arsenal FC as a desirable brand to associate with ... or do you think that Barca, Real, Man U, Chelsea and Man City have now become a more marketable product ? Bearing in mind that our Board of Directors aspire to capturing a share of these markets to finance our development towards success. I think we're way behind our rivals ... the old saying "success breeds success" ... we're not even competing at the moment.

TheBa · 11-11-2012 11:29PM

ugsparky wrote: »

If our crowd capacity were to fall to 45 - 50,000 that in effect means we are only operating at three quarters capacity - maybe not even the lucrative corporate financing three quarters capacity.

.

We'd actually still be at about 90% capacity if we filed most of our corporate areas of the stadium.

But you make some good points.

I believe if we can scrape top 4 this year, we'll start competing again, in the transfer market at least. Looking like we'll have a nice, juicy £25m a year on the way from Adidas, roughly double what we get from Nike. And I'msure we'll secure a good shirt sponsor of similar value to that.

ugsparky · 11-11-2012 11:45PM

Agree 100% with KingVictor - I believe Arsene is operating under constraints imposed by the Yanks. PHW has shown himself to be totally out of sinc with the majority of Gooners. I'd say he views the corporates who eat and drink in the plush restaurants to be the "true" Arsenal fan - supporting the club financially and committing to high priced retainer ticketing.

Arsene has said himself that someday the full truth of his tenure will be known. Bear in mind that this is a man who values loyalty, has never broken a contract, has witnessed corruption that enabled Marseille to win a title against his Monaco team, and has been continually let down by players who have broken contracts. Undoubtedly he has flaws - but I don't belive too many could manage the situation at Arsenal as well as he does. I think most of our problems lie at Boardroom level.

I asked about this before on different forums and also of contacts I have/had within the club ... "Why could Kroenke not loan us money at low interest rates to enable us to compete for signings such as Aguerro, Hazard, Oscar, Goetze, Reus, etc ? " ... it was expected he would introduce some financial injection. I'm afraid that the answer looks like he will use Arsenal as a financial platform for his other interests. I don't think we can blame Arsene Wenger.

ugsparky · 12-11-2012 12:02AM

TheBa wrote: »

We'd actually still be at about 90% capacity if we filed most of our corporate areas of the stadium.

But you make some good points.

I believe if we can scrape top 4 this year, we'll start competing again, in the transfer market at least. Looking like we'll have a nice, juicy £25m a year on the way from Adidas, roughly double what we get from Nike. And I'msure we'll secure a good shirt sponsor of similar value to that.

When you say corporate do you include Season ticket holders, Silver and Red members + home/overseas fan clubs ? I doubt that we are at 90% capacity from corporate attendance. I mean the big hitters, - those who are paying big money to dine upstairs in the Diamond restaurant and who are still quaffing the Brandy 5 minutes after the second half has kicked off - proportionately they are adding the big bucks to the gate revenues. However - do you think they will still attend during following seasons if we start finishing 8th, 9th or 10th ? Just as importantly, will the "ordinary" Joe Punter Gooner go to see Arsenal v Wigan/Stoke/Reading/Villa and stump up €80 a ticket ? Red Membership and Silver Memberships are down on previous seasons, as are applications for Season tickets. I was told that this year there has been a significant decline in membership renewals. Undoubtedly a lot do with the financial climate ... but also to do with high ticket costs and a percieved decline in our teams success. Time will tell I guess, we'll know come April or May.

TheBa · 12-11-2012 12:09AM

Sorry, I meant that the revenue would still be up around 90% if the 10,000 empty seats were 'regular seats'.
And also, I was just using that for 2013/14 if we missed out on CL once. If it was the beginning of a slide, we'd surely be in trouble.

I guess the best comparison is Liverpool. They've slipped away from regular CL football, but their attendances, albeit just a 45k stadium, are still very good. I'm sure if attendances started to drop, the ticket prices would come down to nearer to the average Premiership prices e.g. current Liverpool levels.

Anyway, hopefully things will pick up very soon. A win on Saturday would be just the tonic, especially as I'll be in the North Bank for it

jordainius · 12-11-2012 12:22AM

ugsparky wrote: »

Agree 100% with KingVictor - I believe Arsene is operating under constraints imposed by the Yanks. PHW has shown himself to be totally out of sinc with the majority of Gooners. I'd say he views the corporates who eat and drink in the plush restaurants to be the "true" Arsenal fan - supporting the club financially and committing to high priced retainer ticketing.

Arsene has said himself that someday the full truth of his tenure will be known. Bear in mind that this is a man who values loyalty, has never boken a contract, has witnessed corruption that enabled Marseille to win a title against his Monaco team, and has been continually let down by players who have broken contracts. Undoubtedly he has flaws - but I don't belive too many could manage the situation at Arsenal as well as he does. I think most of our problems lie at Boardroom level.

I asked about this before on different forums and also of contacts I have/had within the club ... "Why could Kroenke not loan us money at low interest rates to enable us to compete for signings such as Aguerro, Hazard, Oscar, Goetze, Reus, etc ? " ... it was expected he would introduce some financial injection. I'm afraid that the answer looks like he will use Arsenal as a financial platform for his other interests. I don't think we can blame Arsene Wenger.

Some people are losing sight of this at the moment. A new manager would have to operate under the same constraints placed on Wenger right now. Any manager we get will have to get the best out of a squad that is capable of finishing 3rd/4th at most- Wenger has pretty much gotten the best out of the squad in the last few years, United, Chelsea and City are out of our reach.

I really hope Wenger writes an auto-biography when he retires. It will be a sad day when he does leave.

emergingstar · 12-11-2012 12:31AM

See zaha is in the England squad, everywhere I read says he is coming to us in jan

batistuta9 · 12-11-2012 12:32AM

emergingstar wrote: »

See zaha is in the England squad, everywhere I read says he is coming to us in jan

him and £30mil Cavani :pac:

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 12-11-2012 01:50AM

ugsparky wrote: »

Sorry but you seem to miss my point. I'm suggesting that if we no longer:
compete top 4,

do not play in the Champions Lge,

continue to sell our best players to our biggest rivals,

Arsene decides not to try and win either the FA Cup or League Cup

and continually charge the highest prices in the Premiership to watch players who would fail to get into any of the Premiership's/Europe's biggest clubs, then our gates will fall. That's proven historically back in the seventies and early eighties when Arsenal were outside of the top 10. I know this because I got tickets to go and see these games - I still have the ticket stubbs.

Secondly - the Emirates was built as a platform to achieve success and to enable us to compete with Europe's biggest clubs, as Highbury did not generate enough income due to it's crowd limitations. This has often been stated as a principle reason for leaving Highbury and the Ashburton Grove development. If our crowd capacity were to fall to 45 - 50,000 that in effect means we are only operating at three quarters capacity - maybe not even the lucrative corporate financing three quarters capacity. As well as loss of revenue from Champions Lge, Premiership and TV, we will struggle to attract players and keep hold of those we have - as we have witnessed already. We could very quickly find ourselves mid-table. That my friend is not comparable to United, Barca or Real.

My main point was that whilst we made huge profit on players we bought for modest sums, the Board of Directors decided not to re-invest these profits back into the team. Instead they were happy to see us finish top 4 and watch Arsene buy more players at bargain prices knowing that inevitably we would sell these players for even more profit. Fine if you're running a business - not too good if your trying to win silverware or build a fanbase.

Just as an aside - do you think that all the lucrative Far East, South American and Middle East/Arabic markets will see Arsenal FC as a desirable brand to associate with ... or do you think that Barca, Real, Man U, Chelsea and Man City have now become a more marketable product ? Bearing in mind that our Board of Directors aspire to capturing a share of these markets to finance our development towards success. I think we're way behind our rivals ... the old saying "success breeds success" ... we're not even competing at the moment.

Ok that's fair enough but is there anything to really suggest that we will consistently fail to do all those things in the near future or that it truley would result in some dramatic reduction in attendances? In all competitions we are still one of the best teams in drawing numbers week in week out despite as you say having the highest ticket prices and not being succuessful in recent years. I don't see how the bottom is suddenly going to fall out now that (a) we're well on the way to paying off the stadium (b) we're due to get plenty more revenue from renewed sponshorship deal etc. (c) FFP will soon be coming in to at least some extent.

I'm not trying to say that everything is rosy and we don't have any worry's or significant problems at the club, however I just don't buy the doom mongering that we are going to fall off the face of the earth if we don't get 4th place one season. The board is obviously holding us back to some extent and Wenger has his problems but we're by no means in the terrible position some people try to make out.

Barlett · 12-11-2012 01:50AM

Actually has Kroenke actually done anything for the club since he became majority shareholder. He can only be in it for the money otherwise he would have at least pumped some money in. I do think there's a lot more going on than we know about and I do look forward to the day Wenger speaks about it...but it still doesn't explain why Wenger has lost that will to win. He really has just changed in the last three years...probably disillusioned, who wouldn't be though?

batistuta9 · 12-11-2012 02:44AM

Fuzzy_Dunlop wrote: »

. I don't see how the bottom is suddenly going to fall out now that (a) we're well on the way to paying off the stadium (b) we're due to get plenty more revenue from renewed sponshorship deal etc. (c) FFP will soon be coming in to at least some extent.

I'm not trying to say that everything is rosy and we don't have any worry's or significant problems at the club, however I just don't buy the doom mongering that we are going to fall off the face of the earth if we don't get 4th place one season. The board is obviously holding us back to some extent and Wenger has his problems but we're by no means in the terrible position some people try to make out.

I think last season arsenal had their fewest number of televised games in the UK meaning less money from the TV pool - one reason the lack of being challengers is effecting the club money wise,

the longer they go on not challenging & what not is going to have an impact on the financial side, money from addidas or whoever for sponsorship is also you'd imagine, not going to be what it could, although it'll be significantly more than now if them figures are true.

Is failing to get 4th not the reason the club have £70mil in the bank? so as if there was no CL money, etc. they'd be able to still pay off debt

greendom · 12-11-2012 08:41AM

emergingstar wrote: »

See zaha is in the England squad, everywhere I read says he is coming to us in jan

That would mean Walcott is gone then I would imagine

AnCapaillMor · 12-11-2012 09:35AM

batistuta9 wrote: »

him and £30mil Cavani :pac:

I laughed when i read that on the rumour mill this morning, the form he's been in the past 2 years and with the stupid money, chelsea, city and psg have been throwing around, 30m wouldn't buy his left boot. Dzeko was also mentioned, which was even dafter.

As for walcott i really don't know, they had him down perfectly with their analysis on RTE's premiership the other night, for every great thing he does, he makes 2 or 3 really bad decisions. If the pool are willing to pay the 100k a week for him fair play to them but i think they'd be crazy.

andrew241983 · 12-11-2012 09:56AM

biggest mistake wenger made this season was taking Jenkinson out as soon as sagna was fit he was flying and has the legs to get up and back all day and has proved brilliant this season...sagna has been great for us but has been lacking in the last couple of games..Fulham's second goal illustrates this point the ball broke down and he was caught ahead of the ball and couldn't get back..

Arsenal Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13 MOD POST #232

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