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are some people just not fit to be parents?

  • 11-11-2012 12:00am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭


    i decided to wait until polling in the referendum was closed before starting this thread, as i thought it might be highjacked by the Yes or No side, or both.

    we tend to skirt around this issue, because it's not PC to say some people just should not be allowed to have kids. we would rather turn a blind eye to the awful abuse that's happening than be seen to be so non PC.

    some folk i wouldn't let look after my dog, never mind a child.

    am i a right-wing fascist to believe these things?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Geekness1234


    i decided to wait until polling in the referendum was closed before starting this thread, as i thought it might be highjacked by the Yes or No side, or both.

    we tend to skirt around this issue, because it's not PC to say some people just should not be allowed to have kids. we would rather turn a blind eye to the awful abuse that's happening than be seen to be so non PC.

    some folk i wouldn't let look after my dog, never mind a child.

    am i a right-wing fascist to believe these things?

    No,it's just they have never had good parents themselves.
    Quite depressing really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    What kind of dog?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    am i a right-wing fascist to believe these things?

    If you are, would you mind sending me on party registration forms please as I'd like to join.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,931 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    I think this should answer your question
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81542344


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭RustyNut


    i decided to wait until polling in the referendum was closed before starting this thread, as i thought it might be highjacked by the Yes or No side, or both.

    we tend to skirt around this issue, because it's not PC to say some people just should not be allowed to have kids. we would rather turn a blind eye to the awful abuse that's happening than be seen to be so non PC.

    some folk i wouldn't let look after my dog, never mind a child.

    am i a right-wing fascist to believe these things?

    You are dead right.
    Top of the list of those who should be baned from caring for kids would be the Irish state, IMHO.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Spiritual


    It's just a vicious circle, bad parenting leads to bad parenting. Social factors are a big influence and I believe that children's allowance has contributed to it. People having kids as a means of income where the children are not seeing any of the money.

    I know of a lot of cases where the children's allowance day is party day on the estate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,073 ✭✭✭Pottler


    I'd say if we could get to a point where every person asked themselves wether they were fit to be parents, that might be better. The chances of some outside body influencing the quality of some peoples parenting is probably about as high as the chance of it influencing their drinking habits, or their drug habits, or any other personal failing you'd like to name. People tend to be people, and some are dumb, others are cnuts and some are dumb cnuts. Nothing much is ever going to change that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    RustyNut wrote: »
    You are dead right.
    Top of the list of those who should be baned from caring for kids would be the Irish state, IMHO.

    I agree, why should the state have to care for kids?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    Suas11 wrote: »
    I think this should answer your question
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81542344

    That baby really racially abuse and attack a stranger?



    mind=blown


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    RustyNut wrote: »
    You are dead right.
    Top of the list of those who should be baned from caring for kids would be the Irish state, IMHO.

    i knew the No side were very likely to try and high-jack this thread.
    Depressingly predictable.:(


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,197 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    No,it's just they have never had good parents themselves.
    Quite depressing really.

    Where does personal responsibility begin and end?

    I suppose it goes back in an infinite regression to the stone age or beyond.


  • Registered Users Posts: 222 ✭✭marozz


    RustyNut wrote: »
    You are dead right.
    Top of the list of those who should be baned from caring for kids would be the Irish state, IMHO.


    I agree, which is the main reason I voted no in the referendum.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    Is it un-pc to say people who abuse kids are unfit parents??
    That is a fact, not an opinion.

    Nomatter what the reason for abuse, neglect etc... the fact of the matter is that those parents are unfit parents - that's not to say that they may become fit parents at some point in the future eg a heroin addict getting clean and looking after their kids properly.

    I can't imagine that there is anyone out there who believes all parents out there are fit parents tbh.

    All parents make mistakes, all parents fcuk up from time to time - that is normal and does not make a person unfit.
    But there are far too many people out there who just should not be responsible for raising kids.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden


    I wouldn't have thought anyone would disagree with the fact that some people aren't fit to be parents. And I didn't think this was non-pc either.

    Flutterflye got there before me!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    keith16 wrote: »
    I agree, why should the state have to care for kids?

    Who else will if the parents won't? The church? :eek:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    Tasden wrote: »
    I wouldn't have thought anyone would disagree with the fact that some people aren't fit to be parents. And I didn't think this was non-pc either.

    Flutterflye got there before me!

    indeed, but a friend of mine believes there are people who should be sterilized.
    is that non-PC?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    No,it's just they have never had good parents themselves.
    Quite depressing really.

    Not true.

    I had very good parents, who made sure I got a good education, made sure I had plenty of good holidays, were very supportive, ensured I was the first in my family to go to college, I got to do any sports and extra curricular activities I liked, and was encouraged to learn to express myself outside of holding opinions my parents had.

    Yet, I cannot abide the thoughts of having a child, and if I were forced to do so, would find it very difficult.

    Reason? I'm selfish, very focused on work and getting ahead, and not willing to take on the responsibility of having a child.

    Nothing to do with my parents


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,166 ✭✭✭Tasden



    indeed, but a friend of mine believes there are people who should be sterilized.
    is that non-PC?

    Does it matter if it is?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭keith16


    Who else will if the parents won't? The church? :eek:

    I don't know. Maybe I'm too naive mate. Can't comprehend how a parent couldn't or wouldn't take care of their child :(


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    Stheno wrote: »
    Not true.

    I had very good parents, who made sure I got a good education, made sure I had plenty of good holidays, were very supportive, ensured I was the first in my family to go to college, I got to do any sports and extra curricular activities I liked, and was encouraged to learn to express myself outside of holding opinions my parents had.

    Yet, I cannot abide the thoughts of having a child, and if I were forced to do so, would find it very difficult.

    Reason? I'm selfish, very focused on work and getting ahead, and not willing to take on the responsibility of having a child.

    Nothing to do with my parents

    that's not necessarily selfish. that's being responsible.
    (word of advice. if you're female get some eggs frozen before you hit 35!)


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    that's not necessarily selfish. that's being responsible.
    (word of advice. if you're female get some eggs frozen before you hit 35!)
    I'm close to hitting forty and female, no regrets :)

    helps having a youngest brother 20 years my junior and nieces and nephews by the bucket load!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    Stheno wrote: »
    I'm close to hitting forty and female, no regrets :)

    helps having a youngest brother 20 years my junior and nieces and nephews by the bucket load!

    good for you, but i know women who start to hit menopause and then panic.
    i'm a belt 'n braces type of guy.

    some folk are very happy to be childless and that's perfectly fine, despite what some segments (often male & celibate) of society would have us believe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    Stheno wrote: »
    I'm close to hitting forty and female, no regrets :)

    helps having a youngest brother 20 years my junior and nieces and nephews by the bucket load!

    I have to admit that my honest gut reaction is to feel sorry for women who never had kids - whether they wanted them or not.
    An opinion that I'm going to work on to change though. It's quite smug and patronising really.
    Why shouldn't a woman live her life without kids and be perfectly happy?
    Just hard to grasp.
    Logically I understand. But emotionally and biologically, I don't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    Sterilizing part of the population will never happen, but a big campaign to implant implanon in 15 year old girls (or younger) would really help. Children do tend to make bad parents...

    and yes OP, I agree some people are simply unfit to be parents, especially at certain stages of their life.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    I have to admit that my honest gut reaction is to feel sorry for women who never had kids - whether they wanted them or not.
    An opinion that I'm going to work on to change though. It's quite smug and patronising really.
    Why shouldn't a woman live her life without kids and be perfectly happy?
    Just hard to grasp.
    Logically I understand. But emotionally and biologically, I don't.

    my mum had 10 kids.
    we always found it amusing (my mum less so) that the RC church (supposedly celibate) encouraged her to procreate.

    oh! what a fuucked country we were.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,700 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    I have to admit that my honest gut reaction is to feel sorry for women who never had kids - whether they wanted them or not.
    An opinion that I'm going to work on to change though. It's quite smug and patronising really.
    Why shouldn't a woman live her life without kids and be perfectly happy?
    Just hard to grasp.
    Logically I understand. But emotionally and biologically, I don't.

    Totally agree.
    Wasn't feeling a bit maternal/broody for ages myself, and could totally understand then, now after kids it's different. Still understand logically, but hard to not feel a pinch for ladies who decide it's not for them.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    good for you, but i know women who start to hit menopause and then panic.
    i'm a belt 'n braces type of guy.

    some folk are very happy to be childless and that's perfectly fine, despite what some segments (often male & celibate) of society would have us believe.

    I guess in a weird way life turned out well for me, I met my partner a few years ago and he has two adult children (late teens/early twenties) so between them and the younger generation of my family I've plenty to care for etc.
    I have to admit that my honest gut reaction is to feel sorry for women who never had kids - whether they wanted them or not.
    An opinion that I'm going to work on to change though. It's quite smug and patronising really.
    Why shouldn't a woman live her life without kids and be perfectly happy?
    Just hard to grasp.
    Logically I understand. But emotionally and biologically, I don't.

    See my post above, I've ended up with possibly the perfect compromise.

    I've also a dreadful phobia of pregnancy (not that unusual)

    I have 10 siblings, all younger than me, and I spent a lot of my childhood surrounded by the necessities/restrictions of small children, which probably formed my opinions.

    You could ask yourself the same of a man, why would they be happy without kids?

    Possibly the same reasons. They don't want the responsibility, I travel a lot in a job I am very happy in and struggle to meet my current familial commitments as a result, I can't stand the idea of being constrained to minding and being responsible for another being 24 hours a day, or asking another to do so, and I also feel that parents should be hands on, I'm not going to have a child and hand it over to nannies/boarding schools to accommodate my life.

    Were I to have children, I'd probably be quite a cold parent to them, which I think is probably if not more damaging to a child than one who is physically abusive.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    Stheno wrote: »
    I guess in a weird way life turned out well for me, I met my partner a few years ago and he has two adult children (late teens/early twenties) so between them and the younger generation of my family I've plenty to care for etc.



    See my post above, I've ended up with possibly the perfect compromise.

    I've also a dreadful phobia of pregnancy (not that unusual)

    I have 10 siblings, all younger than me, and I spent a lot of my childhood surrounded by the necessities/restrictions of small children, which probably formed my opinions.

    You could ask yourself the same of a man, why would they be happy without kids?

    Possibly the same reasons. They don't want the responsibility, I travel a lot in a job I am very happy in and struggle to meet my current familial commitments as a result, I can't stand the idea of being constrained to minding and being responsible for another being 24 hours a day, or asking another to do so, and I also feel that parents should be hands on, I'm not going to have a child and hand it over to nannies/boarding schools to accommodate my life.

    Were I to have children, I'd probably be quite a cold parent to them, which I think is probably if not more damaging to a child than one who is physically abusive.

    again like i say that's a very responsible attitude, unusually so.
    most women go and have kids 'cos it's what society expects of them and they are "made" to feel somehow lacking if they do not.
    if only everybody gave it a fraction of the consideration you have ...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    good for you, but i know women who start to hit menopause and then panic.
    i'm a belt 'n braces type of guy.

    some folk are very happy to be childless and that's perfectly fine, despite what some segments (often male & celibate) of society would have us believe.

    I do not understand what you mean when you say women start panicking about having children when they start to hit the menopause, at that stage you are well aware that having children is not an option.


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    again like i say that's a very responsible attitude, unusually so.
    most women go and have kids 'cos it's what society expects of them and they are "made" to feel somehow lacking if they do not.
    if only everybody gave it a fraction of the consideration you have ...

    I've had to deal with plenty of "what's wrong with you that you don't have kids" comments, to the extent that in one work situation I reported someone who constantly harassed me about it.

    And it's not so much consideration as an understanding of what makes me happy, what my partner and I both want etc

    If everyone were like me, we'd have no humans on the planet in a few generations :)

    There's a happy balance out there :)

    And don't forget abusive situations where women have no choice?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Spiritual wrote: »
    I know of a lot of cases where the children's allowance day is party day on the estate.

    This sounds like they are spending all their money on drink and drugs.

    Might it not be true that dole day is the 1 day of they week they have the money for life's little luxuries like a nice 24 pack, its not dear.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 967 ✭✭✭HeyThereDeliah


    No,it's just they have never had good parents themselves.
    Quite depressing really.

    I don't necessarily think this is true, having crap parents can make some people good parents when the time comes.
    If your childhood was crap then you can make sure not to make the same mistakes your parents did.
    No one knows how good a parent they will be until they have a child.
    Its possible for good parents to have crap kids who turn out really bad and it's nothing to do with the upbringing.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Totally agree.
    Wasn't feeling a bit maternal/broody for ages myself, and could totally understand then, now after kids it's different. Still understand logically, but hard to not feel a pinch for ladies who decide it's not for them.

    There could be an element of the role of long term contraception here?

    I use one which means I don't have periods, can't remember the last time I did, so I've almost forgotten it?

    However in 20 years of being regularly at christenings etc and surrounded by small children, I've never felt the "yearning" to have one of my own.

    Rather strangely small children seem to be attracted to me like flies, I get on incredibly well with them, but am very happy to hand them back :) My Oh and I are well known in my family for being the ones to bring treats for the kids to family occasions, so much so, it's become a joke.
    I do not understand what you mean when you say women start panicking about having children when they start to hit the menopause, at that stage you are well aware that having children is not an option.

    I do to be honest, I've plenty of friends/acquaintances in their early forties who regret not having children/are doing everything they can to have children having put it off in the expectation that medicine will help them conceive long past what would be classed as geriatric pregnancy. There are some women who put childbearing on the long finger and then to their eternal regret discover they have left their dream too late to be realised.

    OT: For AH, this has turned into a very serious discussion!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    I do not understand what you mean when you say women start panicking about having children when they start to hit the menopause, at that stage you are well aware that having children is not an option.

    some women keep putting it off, but only when the realization that menopause is about to "start" (say in the next few years), that their mind really focuses on the issue.
    by then it's often too late.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    some women keep putting it off, but only when the realization that menopause is about to "start" (say in the next few years), that their mind really focuses on the issue.
    by then it's often too late.

    TO give you an idea of my belief in not wanting kids, I've discussed being sterilised with my gynaecologist, who is happy to arrange it based on my age and history, so that option is there for me.

    I know what you are talking about though, have seen it a fair bit.

    I've also seen the flip side, women wanting to have it all, and it not working out for them at all..


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    Stheno wrote: »
    TO give you an idea of my belief in not wanting kids, I've discussed being sterilised with my gynaecologist, who is happy to arrange it based on my age and history, so that option is there for me.

    I know what you are talking about though, have seen it a fair bit.

    I've also seen the flip side, women wanting to have it all, and it not working out for them at all..

    so this brings us to the question.
    does society still view women's role as primarily child bearing/rearing?
    i guess the answer is yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    I do to be honest, I've plenty of friends/acquaintances in their early forties who regret not having children/are doing everything they can to have children having put it off in the expectation that medicine will help them conceive long past what would be classed as geriatric pregnancy. There are some women who put childbearing on the long finger and then to their eternal regret discover they have left their dream too late to be realised.

    OT: For AH, this has turned into a very serious discussion![/QUOTE]

    I agree there are some women who put it off and regret it, but most of the women I know are well aware from a young age how their body works, its not like you wake up one morning and say right I am going to have a baby.

    Most women I know who are trying to concieve at that late stage have had ongoing fertility problems throughout their lives and it is a last ditch effort for them.

    I would seriously hate to think that there are lots of women out there who do not understand their bodies. :(


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    so this brings us to the question.
    does society still view women's role as primarily child bearing/rearing?
    i guess the answer is yes.

    Yes absolutely, and from that perspective, I feel sorry for women who cannot conceive due to difficulties that they or their partner suffer from.

    In the case of the person I reported, my conflict with him ended when I told him after multiple conversations that I was unable to have kids, at which point he turned into a blubbering mess. (I don't know if I can or cannot, but the fact I'd to resort to such a response says a lot)

    I would seriously hate to think that there are lots of women out there who do not understand their bodies. :(

    I think it's more hope springs eternal to be honest, they know they have a low chance of conceiving but look at the stats and see rising ages of first time mothers and skew them in their favour?

    The old lies, damned lies and statistics? SHure it's fine, I'm forty didn't x up the road have her 20th last year at 45? Why whouldn't I have my first at 44.5?

    Bit of an exaggeration there, but same sort of thinking? I've a colleague who just had her second at 43


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    I have several female friends in their 40's now who regret not trying for children earlier(having gone through failed IVF etc) and some who are still under the illusion that at 43 are going to magically conceive, no hassle, for the first time!

    I wonder have women adopted some form of "Brainwashing" for want of a better expression because we have tried to AVOID pregnancy for most of our lives until the "time is right" ?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Smidge wrote: »
    I have several female friends in their 40's now who regret not trying for children earlier(having gone through failed IVF etc) and some who are still under the illusion that at 43 are going to magically conceive, no hassle, for the first time!

    I wonder have women adopted some form of "Brainwashing" for want of a better expression because we have tried to AVOID pregnancy for most of our lives until the "time is right" ?

    It's a combination of lack of willingness to understand when the time is right, and in the case of successful women a fallacy that "when I want it, it will happen to me" that is the problem with such women in my opinion.

    Optimum time to be/get pregnant is before 35, earlier as it can take years, the time when women very focused on careers are most likely to be working on their careers and putting off life changing decisions.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Stheno wrote: »
    It's a combination of lack of willingness to understand when the time is right, and in the case of successful women a fallacy that "when I want it, it will happen to me" that is the problem with such women in my opinion.

    Optimum time to be/get pregnant is before 35, earlier as it can take years, the time when women very focused on careers are most likely to be working on their careers and putting off life changing decisions.

    And tbh honest I don't think that a lot of women get the difficulties health wise with late pregnancies.
    I get the optimism though, where there is life there's hope and all that.

    I think we have gone completely off topic though:o


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Smidge wrote: »
    And tbh honest I don't think that a lot of women get the difficulties health wise with late pregnancies.
    I get the optimism though, where there is life there's hope and all that.

    I think we have gone completely off topic though:o

    Not really, you could ask if such women who have put it off for so long, and are only doing it after years of delaying it, are suitable as parents?

    How are they better than a 25 year old in a modest career who has always dreamed of being a mother and nothing greater, and willing to put life outside of mother hood aside to bring up her children?

    Now there has to be a balance, women have to have both opportunities, but from practical experience in my working life, it's very very hard to achieve.

    Lots of it down to Irish society, poor childcare, over expectations of how much time people are willing to commit to work etc.

    A fundamental shift would be required to achieve it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    Smidge wrote: »
    I have several female friends in their 40's now who regret not trying for children earlier(having gone through failed IVF etc) and some who are still under the illusion that at 43 are going to magically conceive, no hassle, for the first time!

    I wonder have women adopted some form of "Brainwashing" for want of a better expression because we have tried to AVOID pregnancy for most of our lives until the "time is right" ?

    Your empathy knows no bounds.;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Stheno wrote: »
    Not really, you could ask if such women who have put it off for so long, and are only doing it after years of delaying it, are suitable as parents?

    How are they better than a 25 year old in a modest career who has always dreamed of being a mother and nothing greater, and willing to put life outside of mother hood aside to bring up her children?

    Now there has to be a balance, women have to have both opportunities, but from practical experience in my working life, it's very very hard to achieve.

    Lots of it down to Irish society, poor childcare, over expectations of how much time people are willing to commit to work etc.

    A fundamental shift would be required to achieve it.


    Lord Chiiiillllll
    Yo is preachin to the choir :D
    Had my first very early 20's (special needs) so we waited until the time was right(for the child and us)to have another.
    Guess what??
    Number two was special needs as well :pac:

    I have two friend in particular who are "trying" at the min, both great jobs etc but what would they do if they get "my luck"????


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    Smidge wrote: »
    And tbh honest I don't think that a lot of women get the difficulties health wise with late pregnancies.
    I get the optimism though, where there is life there's hope and all that.

    I think we have gone completely off topic though:o

    the reason many women put-off getting pregnant is partly because of the advances in medical science enabling "older" women to conceive, often involving egg donors, surrogacy.
    the other reason is, imo to do with the "i want it now" consumer society we live in, which (through advertising etc.) tells us, if we got the money/education then we can get whatever we want, whenever we want.
    both can be misleading.

    i agree we're way off topic.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    the reason many women put-off getting pregnant is partly because of the advances in medical science enabling "older" women to conceive, often involving egg donors, surrogacy.
    the other reason is, imo to do with the "i want it now" consumer society we live in, which (through advertising etc.) tells us, if we got the money/education then we can get whatever we want.
    both can be misleading.

    i agree we're way off topic.

    Actually G2S I think stheno is right are we are not that way off topic.
    I know you may be talking about people who are neglectful, abusive etc but this is also valid in keeping with the thread title.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,538 ✭✭✭flutterflye


    Stheno wrote: »
    Not really, you could ask if such women who have put it off for so long, and are only doing it after years of delaying it, are suitable as parents?

    How are they better than a 25 year old in a modest career who has always dreamed of being a mother and nothing greater, and willing to put life outside of mother hood aside to bring up her children?

    Now there has to be a balance, women have to have both opportunities, but from practical experience in my working life, it's very very hard to achieve.

    Lots of it down to Irish society, poor childcare, over expectations of how much time people are willing to commit to work etc.

    A fundamental shift would be required to achieve it.

    Yeah, I'm the opposite end - had kids very early, and yet to even get a degree.
    Time is ticking away and I'm afraid I'll never have a career - Well the career I want anyway.
    I'd always choose kids over career, but I'd like to have both.
    So I think taking all aspects into consideration, the best time to start kids would be mid to late 20's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭tan11ie


    Smidge wrote: »
    I have several female friends in their 40's now who regret not trying for children earlier(having gone through failed IVF etc) and some who are still under the illusion that at 43 are going to magically conceive, no hassle, for the first time!

    I wonder have women adopted some form of "Brainwashing" for want of a better expression because we have tried to AVOID pregnancy for most of our lives until the "time is right" ?

    I think a lot of women fall into this, but the fact is that the time is never really right when you put so much thought into it.

    In answer to the OP - some people are not fit to look after pets never mind children...my heart breaks for some of the kids I've have pass through my life over the years, and all they want is the love of their parents....who in turn just don't deserve to be given such a gift.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,690 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    the reason many women put-off getting pregnant is partly because of the advances in medical science enabling "older" women to conceive, often involving egg donors, surrogacy.
    the other reason is, imo to do with the "i want it now" consumer society we live in, which (through advertising etc.) tells us, if we got the money/education then we can get whatever we want.
    both can be misleading.

    i agree we're way off topic.

    Given there is no clear answer from everything I have looked at in terms of nature verus nurture, who is to say we are off topic?

    What is the best type of parent?

    One who will nurture you, provide you with every opportunity they can, while scrimping and saving and supporting you?

    One who packs you off to nannies and boarding schools?

    One who can't be arsed that you are the seventh in seven years and is more interested in the booze?

    Obviously the third is not ideal, but plenty of children rise above such circumstances, just as many in one and two go on not to do well or deviate against societal norms?

    I'd argue that until faced with parenthood, and I came to it late and with late stage teenagers as a step parent, it's about having boundaries, yet allowing a child feel they can talk to you and look to you for guidance.

    If you can't do that you are not fit to be a parent.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 702 ✭✭✭goodie2shoes


    Smidge wrote: »
    Actually G2S I think stheno is right are we are not that way off topic.
    I know you may be talking about people who are neglectful, abusive etc but this is also valid in keeping with the thread title.

    ironic that often those people who put the most thought into having kids cannot, and those that put little or no thought procreate so readily.

    sometimes it's better to follow the NIKE advice on family planning?


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