are some people just not fit to be parents?

goodie2shoes

i decided to wait until polling in the referendum was closed before starting this thread, as i thought it might be highjacked by the Yes or No side, or both.

we tend to skirt around this issue, because it's not PC to say some people just should not be allowed to have kids. we would rather turn a blind eye to the awful abuse that's happening than be seen to be so non PC.

some folk i wouldn't let look after my dog, never mind a child.

am i a right-wing fascist to believe these things?

Geekness1234

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i decided to wait until polling in the referendum was closed before starting this thread, as i thought it might be highjacked by the Yes or No side, or both.

we tend to skirt around this issue, because it's not PC to say some people just should not be allowed to have kids. we would rather turn a blind eye to the awful abuse that's happening than be seen to be so non PC.

some folk i wouldn't let look after my dog, never mind a child.

am i a right-wing fascist to believe these things?

No,it's just they have never had good parents themselves.
Quite depressing really.

squod

What kind of dog?

Conmaicne Mara

goodie2shoes wrote: »

am i a right-wing fascist to believe these things?

If you are, would you mind sending me on party registration forms please as I'd like to join.

Rothko

I think this should answer your question
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81542344

RustyNut

goodie2shoes wrote: »

i decided to wait until polling in the referendum was closed before starting this thread, as i thought it might be highjacked by the Yes or No side, or both.

we tend to skirt around this issue, because it's not PC to say some people just should not be allowed to have kids. we would rather turn a blind eye to the awful abuse that's happening than be seen to be so non PC.

some folk i wouldn't let look after my dog, never mind a child.

am i a right-wing fascist to believe these things?

You are dead right.
Top of the list of those who should be baned from caring for kids would be the Irish state, IMHO.

Spiritual

It's just a vicious circle, bad parenting leads to bad parenting. Social factors are a big influence and I believe that children's allowance has contributed to it. People having kids as a means of income where the children are not seeing any of the money.

I know of a lot of cases where the children's allowance day is party day on the estate.

Pottler

I'd say if we could get to a point where every person asked themselves wether they were fit to be parents, that might be better. The chances of some outside body influencing the quality of some peoples parenting is probably about as high as the chance of it influencing their drinking habits, or their drug habits, or any other personal failing you'd like to name. People tend to be people, and some are dumb, others are cnuts and some are dumb cnuts. Nothing much is ever going to change that.

keith16

RustyNut wrote: »

You are dead right.
Top of the list of those who should be baned from caring for kids would be the Irish state, IMHO.

I agree, why should the state have to care for kids?

squod

Suas11 wrote: »

I think this should answer your question
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=81542344

That baby really racially abuse and attack a stranger?



mind=blown

goodie2shoes

RustyNut wrote: »

You are dead right.
Top of the list of those who should be baned from caring for kids would be the Irish state, IMHO.

i knew the No side were very likely to try and high-jack this thread.
Depressingly predictable.:(

Pherekydes

Geekness1234 wrote: »

No,it's just they have never had good parents themselves.
Quite depressing really.

Where does personal responsibility begin and end?

I suppose it goes back in an infinite regression to the stone age or beyond.

marozz

RustyNut wrote: »

You are dead right.
Top of the list of those who should be baned from caring for kids would be the Irish state, IMHO.

I agree, which is the main reason I voted no in the referendum.

flutterflye

Is it un-pc to say people who abuse kids are unfit parents??
That is a fact, not an opinion.

Nomatter what the reason for abuse, neglect etc... the fact of the matter is that those parents are unfit parents - that's not to say that they may become fit parents at some point in the future eg a heroin addict getting clean and looking after their kids properly.

I can't imagine that there is anyone out there who believes all parents out there are fit parents tbh.

All parents make mistakes, all parents fcuk up from time to time - that is normal and does not make a person unfit.
But there are far too many people out there who just should not be responsible for raising kids.

Tasden

I wouldn't have thought anyone would disagree with the fact that some people aren't fit to be parents. And I didn't think this was non-pc either.

Flutterflye got there before me!

Conmaicne Mara

keith16 wrote: »

I agree, why should the state have to care for kids?

Who else will if the parents won't? The church? :eek:

goodie2shoes

Tasden wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought anyone would disagree with the fact that some people aren't fit to be parents. And I didn't think this was non-pc either.

Flutterflye got there before me!

indeed, but a friend of mine believes there are people who should be sterilized.
is that non-PC?

Stheno

Geekness1234 wrote: »

No,it's just they have never had good parents themselves.
Quite depressing really.

Not true.

I had very good parents, who made sure I got a good education, made sure I had plenty of good holidays, were very supportive, ensured I was the first in my family to go to college, I got to do any sports and extra curricular activities I liked, and was encouraged to learn to express myself outside of holding opinions my parents had.

Yet, I cannot abide the thoughts of having a child, and if I were forced to do so, would find it very difficult.

Reason? I'm selfish, very focused on work and getting ahead, and not willing to take on the responsibility of having a child.

Nothing to do with my parents

Tasden

goodie2shoes wrote: »

indeed, but a friend of mine believes there are people who should be sterilized.
is that non-PC?

Does it matter if it is?

keith16

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Who else will if the parents won't? The church? :eek:

I don't know. Maybe I'm too naive mate. Can't comprehend how a parent couldn't or wouldn't take care of their child

goodie2shoes

Stheno wrote: »

Not true.

I had very good parents, who made sure I got a good education, made sure I had plenty of good holidays, were very supportive, ensured I was the first in my family to go to college, I got to do any sports and extra curricular activities I liked, and was encouraged to learn to express myself outside of holding opinions my parents had.

Yet, I cannot abide the thoughts of having a child, and if I were forced to do so, would find it very difficult.

Reason? I'm selfish, very focused on work and getting ahead, and not willing to take on the responsibility of having a child.

Nothing to do with my parents

that's not necessarily selfish. that's being responsible.
(word of advice. if you're female get some eggs frozen before you hit 35!)

Stheno

goodie2shoes wrote: »

that's not necessarily selfish. that's being responsible.
(word of advice. if you're female get some eggs frozen before you hit 35!)

I'm close to hitting forty and female, no regrets

helps having a youngest brother 20 years my junior and nieces and nephews by the bucket load!

goodie2shoes

Stheno wrote: »

I'm close to hitting forty and female, no regrets

helps having a youngest brother 20 years my junior and nieces and nephews by the bucket load!

good for you, but i know women who start to hit menopause and then panic.
i'm a belt 'n braces type of guy.

some folk are very happy to be childless and that's perfectly fine, despite what some segments (often male & celibate) of society would have us believe.

flutterflye

Stheno wrote: »

I'm close to hitting forty and female, no regrets

helps having a youngest brother 20 years my junior and nieces and nephews by the bucket load!

I have to admit that my honest gut reaction is to feel sorry for women who never had kids - whether they wanted them or not.
An opinion that I'm going to work on to change though. It's quite smug and patronising really.
Why shouldn't a woman live her life without kids and be perfectly happy?
Just hard to grasp.
Logically I understand. But emotionally and biologically, I don't.

Mountainsandh

Sterilizing part of the population will never happen, but a big campaign to implant implanon in 15 year old girls (or younger) would really help. Children do tend to make bad parents...

and yes OP, I agree some people are simply unfit to be parents, especially at certain stages of their life.

goodie2shoes

flutterflye wrote: »

I have to admit that my honest gut reaction is to feel sorry for women who never had kids - whether they wanted them or not.
An opinion that I'm going to work on to change though. It's quite smug and patronising really.
Why shouldn't a woman live her life without kids and be perfectly happy?
Just hard to grasp.
Logically I understand. But emotionally and biologically, I don't.

my mum had 10 kids.
we always found it amusing (my mum less so) that the RC church (supposedly celibate) encouraged her to procreate.

oh! what a fuucked country we were.

Mountainsandh

flutterflye wrote: »

I have to admit that my honest gut reaction is to feel sorry for women who never had kids - whether they wanted them or not.
An opinion that I'm going to work on to change though. It's quite smug and patronising really.
Why shouldn't a woman live her life without kids and be perfectly happy?
Just hard to grasp.
Logically I understand. But emotionally and biologically, I don't.

Totally agree.
Wasn't feeling a bit maternal/broody for ages myself, and could totally understand then, now after kids it's different. Still understand logically, but hard to not feel a pinch for ladies who decide it's not for them.

Stheno

goodie2shoes wrote: »

good for you, but i know women who start to hit menopause and then panic.
i'm a belt 'n braces type of guy.

some folk are very happy to be childless and that's perfectly fine, despite what some segments (often male & celibate) of society would have us believe.

I guess in a weird way life turned out well for me, I met my partner a few years ago and he has two adult children (late teens/early twenties) so between them and the younger generation of my family I've plenty to care for etc.

flutterflye wrote: »

I have to admit that my honest gut reaction is to feel sorry for women who never had kids - whether they wanted them or not.
An opinion that I'm going to work on to change though. It's quite smug and patronising really.
Why shouldn't a woman live her life without kids and be perfectly happy?
Just hard to grasp.
Logically I understand. But emotionally and biologically, I don't.

See my post above, I've ended up with possibly the perfect compromise.

I've also a dreadful phobia of pregnancy (not that unusual)

I have 10 siblings, all younger than me, and I spent a lot of my childhood surrounded by the necessities/restrictions of small children, which probably formed my opinions.

You could ask yourself the same of a man, why would they be happy without kids?

Possibly the same reasons. They don't want the responsibility, I travel a lot in a job I am very happy in and struggle to meet my current familial commitments as a result, I can't stand the idea of being constrained to minding and being responsible for another being 24 hours a day, or asking another to do so, and I also feel that parents should be hands on, I'm not going to have a child and hand it over to nannies/boarding schools to accommodate my life.

Were I to have children, I'd probably be quite a cold parent to them, which I think is probably if not more damaging to a child than one who is physically abusive.

goodie2shoes

Stheno wrote: »

I guess in a weird way life turned out well for me, I met my partner a few years ago and he has two adult children (late teens/early twenties) so between them and the younger generation of my family I've plenty to care for etc.



See my post above, I've ended up with possibly the perfect compromise.

I've also a dreadful phobia of pregnancy (not that unusual)

I have 10 siblings, all younger than me, and I spent a lot of my childhood surrounded by the necessities/restrictions of small children, which probably formed my opinions.

You could ask yourself the same of a man, why would they be happy without kids?

Possibly the same reasons. They don't want the responsibility, I travel a lot in a job I am very happy in and struggle to meet my current familial commitments as a result, I can't stand the idea of being constrained to minding and being responsible for another being 24 hours a day, or asking another to do so, and I also feel that parents should be hands on, I'm not going to have a child and hand it over to nannies/boarding schools to accommodate my life.

Were I to have children, I'd probably be quite a cold parent to them, which I think is probably if not more damaging to a child than one who is physically abusive.

again like i say that's a very responsible attitude, unusually so.
most women go and have kids 'cos it's what society expects of them and they are "made" to feel somehow lacking if they do not.
if only everybody gave it a fraction of the consideration you have ...

LETHAL LADY

goodie2shoes wrote: »

good for you, but i know women who start to hit menopause and then panic.
i'm a belt 'n braces type of guy.

some folk are very happy to be childless and that's perfectly fine, despite what some segments (often male & celibate) of society would have us believe.

I do not understand what you mean when you say women start panicking about having children when they start to hit the menopause, at that stage you are well aware that having children is not an option.

Stheno

goodie2shoes wrote: »

again like i say that's a very responsible attitude, unusually so.
most women go and have kids 'cos it's what society expects of them and they are "made" to feel somehow lacking if they do not.
if only everybody gave it a fraction of the consideration you have ...

I've had to deal with plenty of "what's wrong with you that you don't have kids" comments, to the extent that in one work situation I reported someone who constantly harassed me about it.

And it's not so much consideration as an understanding of what makes me happy, what my partner and I both want etc

If everyone were like me, we'd have no humans on the planet in a few generations

There's a happy balance out there

And don't forget abusive situations where women have no choice?