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Do you Speak Irish?

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Comments

  • #392
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    WanabeOlympian wrote: »
    I thought the Irish government spent more money on stationery than the Irish language??
    in the grand scheme of things, spending on the Irish language is well down the list!

    I really doesn’t cost that much to make signs bilingual, the principal costs involved are in the erection of them.


  • #393
    opti0nal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    Deleted User wrote: »
    in the grand scheme of things, spending on the Irish language is well down the list!....I really doesn’t cost that much to make signs bilingual, the principal costs involved are in the erection of them.
    There's more than just signage imposed by the OLA. Online computer systems must be in Irish and Irish-speaking officials must be made available immediately if someone wants a public service in Irish. Even if the area in question is predominantly an English-speaking one. Even if the person who makes the demand is a fluent native English-speaker.

    But, the biggest cost, financially and socially is the 1,500 hours of compulsory lessons imposed without choice on every little boy and girl in the country when all they need is a single sheet of paper with the ten phrases written on it they will ever speak in Irish once they leave school and are no longer obliged to speak Irish.


  • #394
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    opti0nal wrote: »
    There's more than just signage imposed by the OLA. Online computer systems must be in Irish and Irish-speaking officials must be made available immediately if someone wants a public service in Irish. Even if the area in question is predominantly an English-speaking one. Even if the person who makes the demand is a fluent native English-speaker.

    But, the biggest cost, financially and socially is the 1,500 hours of compulsory lessons imposed without choice on every little boy and girl in the country when all they need is a single sheet of paper with the ten phrases written on it they will ever speak in Irish once they leave school and are no longer obliged to speak Irish.
    I'd say that quite a significant percentage of what some people learn at school becomes useless to them, but then again, they chose not to use it rather than it actually being useless!


  • #395
    That username is already in use.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 186 ✭✭That username is already in use.


    Was there seriously someone complaining about the Irish language option on the ATMs? Wow, that's so pathetic! The anti-Irish brigade are no end of amusement for me :D

    Speaking of machines, Tesco just announced that they are going to add an option for Gaeilge on their self-service checkouts. They're also going to review their internal signage policy and make sure that all signs are bilingual in their Republic of Ireland stores.

    Can't wait to hear the anti-Irish brigade complaining about this one :D:D


  • #396
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'd say that quite a significant percentage of what some people learn at school becomes useless to them, but then again, they chose not to use it rather than it actually being useless!


    Em - that point makes no sence whatsoever...?

    If they chose to learn it, you'd have a point, but forcing someone to learn it and then blaming them for not using it is just plain ignorant.
    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    Was there seriously someone complaining about the Irish language option on the ATMs? Wow, that's so pathetic! The anti-Irish brigade are no end of amusement for me :D

    Speaking of machines, Tesco just announced that they are going to add an option for Gaeilge on their self-service checkouts. They're also going to review their internal signage policy and make sure that all signs are bilingual in their Republic of Ireland stores.

    Can't wait to hear the anti-Irish brigade complaining about this one :D:D

    There were, and you're right, but in terms of getting a laugh, you should have been here when An Coilean compalined that she was being force to conduct her buisness in English.

    Regarding Tesco - I thought they already had...?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • #397
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Em - that point makes no sense whatsoever...?

    If they chose to learn it, you'd have a point, but forcing someone to learn it and then blaming them for not using it is just plain ignorant.

    I'm not blaming anyone for not using what they learned in school, after all, if you become a plumber, you'll find all that history you learnt to be of no use at all to you in your work life.

    But on the other hand you may enjoy aspects of history as a hobby, the same is true of learning Irish in school.


  • #398
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm not blaming anyone for not using what they learned in school, after all, if you become a plumber, you'll find all that history you learnt to be of no use at all to you in your work life.

    But on the other hand you may enjoy aspects of history as a hobby, the same is true of learning Irish in school.

    You definitely implied that not using something after school was the fault of the person who chose not to use it.

    Your analogy doesnt work either: your point would be that it is the plumber's fault that the history he learnt is useless, because he chose not to use it.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #399
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm not blaming anyone for not using what they learned in school, after all, if you become a plumber, you'll find all that history you learnt to be of no use at all to you in your work life.

    But on the other hand you may enjoy aspects of history as a hobby, the same is true of learning Irish in school.
    History isn't compulsory in second level though.


  • #400
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    Deleted User wrote: »
    But on the other hand you may enjoy aspects of history as a hobby, the same is true of learning Irish in school.

    However, history can give understandings as to why one is doing plumbing and may impart a sense pride as one may be helping to keep outbreaks of plague or cholera at bay.

    There is a real problem with languages that are not active in the subjects surroundings and may do actual harm to a developing brain. In our society, language should be kept until second level and above.

    The core language should be fully fluent in primary and of a much higher level than it is currently, English should not NEED to be a second level subject.


  • #401
    M cebee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭M cebee


    nope
    came back from uk aged 12

    had to sit through irish classes for years while doing nothing

    hopefully things have improved in schools


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  • #402
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    gbee wrote: »
    There is a real problem with languages that are not active in the subjects surroundings and may do actual harm to a developing brain. In our society, language should be kept until second level and above.

    The core language should be fully fluent in primary and of a much higher level than it is currently, English should not NEED to be a second level subject.

    English, epseically for the leaving cert, tends to be more literature than language. Although it should also be optional (based on the fact that, if we still need to teach grammar at the age of 15, something is seriously rotten in the satte of primary school).

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • #403
    poeticseraphim
    Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'd say that quite a significant percentage of what some people learn at school becomes useless to them, but then again, they chose not to use it rather than it actually being useless!



    I would disagree and it is a silly argument.

    Anyway all subjects are not compulsory,Maths English and Irish are.

    You WILL use Maths and English which are compulsory. You choose if you want to do History or Geography which you might not use ( I would argue that you will and that do need them but however) Irish is compulsory and it is useless unless you enjoy it.

    It should be dropped as a compulsory subject. There is no justification for it.
    Saying there is no justification for anything STILL does not justify compulsory Irish.


  • #404
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    Was there seriously someone complaining about the Irish language option on the ATMs?
    Wow, that's so pathetic! The anti-Irish brigade are no end of amusement for me.

    Complaining no, anti-Irish definately not, but curious yes (read post in Link).

    This might be post you are talking about? > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81383464&postcount=247

    Still curious, but not complaining . . . . .


  • #405
    9959
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm not blaming anyone for not using what they learned in school, after all, if you become a plumber, you'll find all that history you learnt to be of no use at all to you in your work life.

    But on the other hand you may enjoy aspects of history as a hobby, the same is true of learning Irish in school.

    A knowledge of history is its own reward, and can be analysed and applied in many different ways, whether you're a plumber or a rocket scientist.
    Lessons in History are lessons in life.

    Should immigrants be blamed for our current economic woes?
    Did the National Front in Britain blame 'their' immigrants for their unemployment problems in the late 70's?
    Which country's troops invaded Afghanistan in late 1979, and what was the significance of that invasion?
    Did the USA assist the Mujahideen in their efforts to repel their communist invaders?
    Who were James Larkin, Steve Biko, Rosa Parks, Lech Welesa etc.

    Without a knowledge of history and it's leading players, the above questions become nothing more than a makeweight round in a pub quiz.

    Should a country in post-colonial adolescence look outward and forward for ideas and inspiration, taking advantage of the fact they speak as a first language the most studied second-language in the world, or should they look inward and backwards, continuing to compulsorily teach a language that is of no practical value or use whatsoever, save for the gainful employment of politicians and teachers.

    The line in your post "But on the other hand you may enjoy aspects of history as a hobby, the same is true of learning Irish in school" is mindbogglingly stupid.

    History has given us inspirational figures such as Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Emily Pankhurst etc, people who understood the human condidtion and the importance of communication therein, people who looked, and reached out, beyond national boundries to seek support and find common cause. They knew their history and the importance of it to everyone, be they plumbers, shepherds or chartered accountants.

    Eamon O'Cuiv gave us 'An Daingean'.


  • #406
    kowloon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    History isn't compulsory in second level though.

    I've always wondered about this. If the reason for Irish being compulsory is cultural/heritage, then surely there's an even greater argument for History?


  • #407
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,828 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    9959 wrote: »
    A knowledge of history is its own reward, and can be analysed and applied in many different ways, whether you're a plumber or a rocket scientist.
    Lessons in History are lessons in life.

    Should immigrants be blamed for our current economic woes?
    Did the National Front in Britain blame 'their' immigrants for their unemployment problems in the late 70's?
    Which country's troops invaded Afghanistan in late 1979, and what was the significance of that invasion?
    Did the USA assist the Mujahideen in their efforts to repel their communist invaders?
    Who were James Larkin, Steve Biko, Rosa Parks, Lech Welesa etc.

    Without a knowledge of history and it's leading players, the above questions become nothing more than a makeweight round in a pub quiz.

    Should a country in post-colonial adolescence look outward and forward for ideas and inspiration, taking advantage of the fact they speak as a first language the most studied second-language in the world, or should they look inward and backwards, continuing to compulsorily teach a language that is of no practical value or use whatsoever, save for the gainful employment of politicians and teachers.

    The line in your post "But on the other hand you may enjoy aspects of history as a hobby, the same is true of learning Irish in school" is mindbogglingly stupid.

    History has given us inspirational figures such as Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Emily Pankhurst etc, people who understood the human condidtion and the importance of communication therein, people who looked, and reached out, beyond national boundries to seek support and find common cause. They knew their history and the importance of it to everyone, be they plumbers, shepherds or chartered accountants.

    Eamon O'Cuiv gave us 'An Daingean'.
    I did say that you didn't need history to be a plumber but it is useful in life!


  • #408
    9959
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭9959


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I did say that you didn't need history to be a plumber but it is useful in life!

    Of course it's useful to be a plumber, a knowledge of 'Gaeilge' is unlikely to help when your washing machine goes belly-up.


  • #409
    opti0nal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I did say that you didn't need history to be a plumber but it is useful in life!
    I would agree.

    Most Irish people just need to know 10 polite phrases in Irish. These could simply be given to them on a laminated card when they leave school and we could save millions in utterly pointless language lessons.

    Knowledge and understanding of our history is far more more important.


  • #410
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    opti0nal wrote: »
    I would agree.

    Most Irish people just need to know 10 polite phrases in Irish. These could simply be given to them on a laminated card when they leave school and we could save millions in utterly pointless language lessons.

    10? List them for fun :P


  • #411
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,779 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Teamshadowclan wrote: »
    10? List them for fun :P

    Yes.
    No.
    Maybe.
    I don't know.
    Could you repeat the question?
    You're not the boss of me, now!
    You're not the boss of me, now!
    You're not the boss of me now, and you're not so big!
    Life is unfair.
    (and, most essential of all)
    Can I please go to the toilet?

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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  • #412
    Jillian Fast Streptomycin
    Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Jillian Fast Streptomycin


    opti0nal wrote: »
    I would agree.

    Most Irish people just need to know 10 polite phrases in Irish. These could simply be given to them on a laminated card when they leave school and we could save millions in utterly pointless language lessons.

    Knowledge and understanding of our history is far more more important.

    I don't recall ever needing to know any phrases in Irish on leaving school, much less 10 or polite


  • #413
    kowloon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 13,856 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Ikky Poo2 wrote: »
    Yes.
    No.
    Maybe.
    I don't know.
    Could you repeat the question?
    You're not the boss of me, now!
    You're not the boss of me, now!
    You're not the boss of me now, and you're not so big!
    Life is unfair.
    (and, most essential of all)
    Can I please go to the toilet?

    Teacher teacher teacher, I know that one! \o/


  • #414
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    bluewolf wrote: »
    I don't recall ever needing to know any phrases in Irish, much less 10 or polite

    I know two....

    Can I go to the toilet (which no one needs to know, but has nearly transcended into this awesome national joke now about how little Irish we actually know).

    And...

    There's no place like home (or to be more direct, there's no fireplace like my own fireplace; learned cause every essay I wrote in sixth year ended with the line).

    But yeah, don't even "need" to know them....


  • #415
    That username is already in use.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 186 ✭✭That username is already in use.


    Teamshadowclan wrote: »
    There's no place like home (or to be more direct, there's no fireplace like my own fireplace; learned cause every essay I wrote in sixth year ended with the line).

    And there's also níl aon tóin tinn mar do thóin tinn féin :D


  • #416
    opti0nal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭opti0nal


    Teamshadowclan wrote: »
    10? List them for fun :P
    Ok, based on what I've retained after many years of regular lessons in Irish:

    With your permission.
    Good on you.
    God and Mary be with you.
    Do I have permission to go to the toilet?
    There's no fireside like your own fireside.
    I don't understand.
    Sit down.
    Stand up.
    Be quiet!
    Please don't hit me?


  • #417
    Lord TSC
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,984 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    And there's also níl aon tóin tinn mar do thóin tinn féin :D

    That's the one :P


  • #418
    coolhull
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49,731 ✭✭✭✭coolhull


    9959 wrote: »
    Of course it's useful to be a plumber, a knowledge of 'Gaeilge' is unlikely to help when your washing machine goes belly-up.
    A knowledge of Irish, Spanish or any other language is unlikely to help when your washing machine goes belly-up (except maybe bad language!)


  • #419
    That username is already in use.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 186 ✭✭That username is already in use.


    I remember posting here last year that fella Iwasfrozen was spitting venom in another thread about the Irish language. Here he is still at it! Anyone know his deal? He seems quite troubled by the whole thing, the poor chap.


  • #420
    Stained Class
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,808 ✭✭✭Stained Class


    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    I remember posting here last year that fella Iwasfrozen was spitting venom in another thread about the Irish language. Here he is still at it! Anyone know his deal? He seems quite troubled by the whole thing, the poor chap.

    Force fed a useless subject from the age of 4. Possibly against the wishes of himself & his family.

    Still, it's Ireland & here you've no real choice in the matter. Some of the teachers don't help the show either.

    On to second level.

    Here we meet Peig. An old woman with 2 teeth, a pipe & tales of woe that even the most battle hardened soldier couldn't even begin to imagine.

    At 17 or 18, the vast majority of us leave school without being able to use the language in a meaningful way 'sept if you want to be an Irish teacher or one of those employed by the state that translates all official documents on it's behalf for the half dozen who can understand it.

    But shure it keeps the Gealgoers happy on their hobbyhorse....

    The resources involved in this are quite substantial & it comes out of the Irish taxpayer's pocket.

    Some of them get upset about it & who can blame them?


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  • #421
    WanabeOlympian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 130 ✭✭WanabeOlympian


    It's not them and us, it's all of us and it's all our language, right? There seems to be a nicer attitude towards the language among the younger generation. I guess we are more self confident and self assured about being Irish than the older peeps.


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