Do you Speak Irish?

An Coilean

ENMcD wrote: »

Gaeilge líofa, scríobh agus labhairt, sa mbaile, le cairde agus aon áit a bhfuil Gaeilge dhá usáid! From the Gaeltacht so Irish is my first language Was trying to figure out the last day how I actually learnt English:p

Careful now, you will be acused of vanity in these parts for daring to utter the national language.

4zn76tysfajdxp

An Coilean wrote: »

Careful now, you will be acused of vanity in these parts for daring to utter the national language.

One of the national languages.

ENMcD

Rather proud of uttering the national language haha

An Coilean

Lila Delightful Sty wrote: »

One of the national languages.

Only one national language.;)

Iwasfrozen

ENMcD wrote: »

Gaeilge líofa, scríobh agus labhairt, sa mbaile, le cairde agus aon áit a bhfuil Gaeilge dhá usáid! From the Gaeltacht so Irish is my first language Was trying to figure out the last day how I actually learnt English:p

It's against the rules to write in irish without a translation.

ENMcD

Fluent Irish, written and spoken, at home, with friends and anywhere that uses the Irish language. That ok Iwasfrozen

Iwasfrozen

ENMcD wrote: »

Fluent Irish, written and spoken, at home, with friends and anywhere that uses the Irish language. That ok Iwasfrozen

Yep, thanks.

An Coilean

ENMcD wrote: »

Rather proud of uttering the national language haha

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's against the rules to write in irish without a translation.

See, they don't like uppity 'gaelgors' round here.

Cheek, thinkiing your politically motivated vanity would go unchallenged.
Very naughty. :pac:

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

See, they don't like uppity 'gaelgors' round here.

Cheek, thinkiing your politically motivated vanity would go unchallenged.
Very naughty. :pac:

It's not that. It's just so the moderators can well, moderate. It's not only irish it's the same rule for all languages other then english.

ENMcD

An Coilean wrote: »

See, they don't like uppity 'gaelgors' round here.

Cheek, thinkiing your politically motivated vanity would go unchallenged.
Very naughty. :pac:

Far from uppity now I have to say!

An Coilean

ENMcD wrote: »

Far from uppity now I have to say!

Oh you might think that, but speaking Irish is a sure sign of some seriously sinster motives.
Not to mention breaking the rules, oh wait, it was mentioned, within 7 minutes at that, just goes to show how touchy some people get over the issue around here.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

An Coilean wrote: »

Well I believe that Irish should be a core subject in schools, but leaving that issue aside, outside the school gate, or after leaving school, should any individual choose not to learn Irish, or not to conduct their business through Irish, thats fine be me, I have no problem with that.

No probs. I think it should be optinoal after the Junior Cert, but other than that I agree.

However, should an orginisation be it public or private refuse to provide its services in Irish, that is a problem as far as I am concerned.
Maybe you don't get it, but I dont see why, If you can't access the service in Irish, then you are forced to speak English.

If it was the other way around I am sure you would say it was Irish being forced down peoples throats.

Not really. It's the practical element of it: everyone here speaks English. Therefore it is practical for said businesses to offer its services in English. If they choose to offer services in other languages, that is up to them.

If they don't offer the servies you require, or you do not like these terms, you are free to take your business to another supplier. Where is the problem?

4zn76tysfajdxp

An Coilean wrote: »

Only one national language.;)

There are two official languages in Ireland: English and Irish. Extremely arrogant of you to think Irish is the national language when the vast majority don't speak it.

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

Oh you might think that, but speaking Irish is a sure sign of some seriously sinster motives.
Not to mention breaking the rules, oh wait, it was mentioned, within 7 minutes at that, just goes to show how touchy some people get over the issue around here.

Hold on a second no one called anyone uppity. I do admit it's annoying to see a comment that I can't read. But I apologise if I came across as anal. That wasn't my intention.

Chips Lovell

Aside from the fact that it creates a dual standard, with Irish speakers getting preferential treatment over English speakers, my other issue with the Official Languages Act is the sheer level of waste it has created.

This really hit home when, shortly after I was introduced, I met a friend who worked with a local authority. He told me how now all of their major reports, like their annual report etc, had to be translated into Irish and have printed Irish editions available. Despite all this work, not one person had ever requested the Irish language version. They were all sitting in a basement somewhere.

Multiply that across every public body affected by the Act and you get an idea about how much money is going down the drain. All it's done is create a cottage industry for Irish translators and doubled most public sector printing bills.

An Coilean

Lila Delightful Sty wrote: »

There are two official languages in Ireland: English and Irish. Extremely arrogant of you to think Irish is the national language when the vast majority don't speak it.

There are indeed two official languages, I didn't deny that, only one national language though, and you can call me all the names under the sun, it doesn't change that fact.

4zn76tysfajdxp

Yes. There is one national language, the one that everyone speaks. And it's not Irish.

An Coilean

Lila Delightful Sty wrote: »

Yes. There is one national language, the one that everyone speaks. And it's not Irish.

Try again

An Coilean

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Aside from the fact that it creates a dual standard, with Irish speakers getting preferential treatment over English speakers, my other issue with the Official Languages Act is the sheer level of waste it has created.

This really hit home when, shortly after I was introduced, I met a friend who worked with a local authority. He told me how now all of their major reports, like their annual report etc, had to be translated into Irish and have printed Irish editions available. Despite all this work, not one person had ever requested the Irish language version. They were all sitting in a basement somewhere.

Multiply that across every public body affected by the Act and you get an idea about how much money is going down the drain. All it's done is create a cottage industry for Irish translators and doubled most public sector printing bills.

A whopping €365,241 a year across all government departments in fact, or at least that was the answer John Deasy TD (FG) got to his question in the Dáil on the matter.

Lets put that in some perspective, the dept. of social protection spends 0.0006% of its budget on translations and services in Irish.

Huge waste indeed.

Edit: How many English editions were requested btw? 6? 10?

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

A whopping €365,241 a year across all government departments in fact, or at least that was the answer John Deasy TD (FG) got to his question in the Dáil on the matter.

Lets put that in some perspective, the dept. of social protection spends 0.0006% of its budget on translations and services in Irish.

Huge waste indeed.

Edit: How many English editions were requested btw? 6? 10?

How much are irish language teachers paid?

Chips Lovell

An Coilean wrote: »

A whopping €365,241 a year across all government departments in fact, or at least that was the answer John Deasy TD (FG) got to his question in the Dáil on the matter.

There are only 16 government departments. The OLA applies to 565 public bodies in total.

An Coilean

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

There are only 16 government departments. The OLA applies to 565 public bodies in total.

Actually thats not an exaustive list, no one really knows how many bodies are under the act at any given time, the number of public bodies changes so frequently that there is no full list.

Anyway, point taken, but you would expect the departments to be the big spenders.

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

How much are irish language teachers paid?

Dunno, the same as other teachers I suppose.
Either way its not a saveable expence.

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

Dunno, the same as other teachers I suppose.
Either way its not a saveable expence.

Sure it is. The amount of irish language teachers we have now is due to artificial government imposed demand. Make irish optional and the numbers of students taking up the language will plummet. Along with the number of teachers needed to teach them.

Red Pepper

Birroc wrote: »

Its stupid forced crap like this that turns me against the language.
I actually think it's completely childish - I mean what simpletons made the decision to de-face perfectly good signs and make them less useful?
Only in Ireland.

Completely agree, I used to be fairly ambiguous towards the language but its stunts like this that turn me against it. I believe the drive for Irish is a bit of a fad at the moment though and will run it's course.

An Coilean

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Sure it is. The amount of irish language teachers we have now is due to artificial government imposed demand. Make irish optional and the numbers of students taking up the language will plummet. Along with the number of teachers needed to teach them.

Ya, but the amount spent is not saveable. You cant leave students unsupervised for a few hours a week because they choose not to do Irish.

Red Pepper wrote: »

Completely agree, I used to be fairly ambiguous towards the language but its stunts like this that turn me against it. I believe the drive for Irish is a bit of a fad at the moment though and will run it's course.

Simply out of interest, what would you see as the 'drive for Irish at the moment'?

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

Ya, but the amount spent is not saveable. You cant leave students unsupervised for a few hours a week because they choose not to do Irish.

Nope if they don't do irish they will choose to do another subject. The point is they will be spread out among other many other subjects not just the one so as long as they don't push another class over it's student limit no new teachers will be needed. Teaching is only part of it though. How much money is given to irish language bodies and how much is donated by the eu given irish's ridiculous status as an official European language.

Chips Lovell

An Coilean wrote: »

Actually thats not an exaustive list, no one really knows how many bodies are under the act at any given time, the number of public bodies changes so frequently that there is no full list.

Anyway, point taken, but you would expect the departments to be the big spenders.

Some department are, yes certainly. If I recall correctly, Deasy got his figures by putting PQs to each of the ministers. The Department of Education accounted for almost half of the total. But I'd say the average local authority could generate as much if not more than some other departments.

Anyhow, the anecdote I cited is not an isolated case. For example, Clare County Council spent €30,000 translating a county development plan and not one copy was sold.

Cork County Council spent almost €90,000 having local development plans translated and didn't receive a single request.

Waterford County Council spent €26,000 on an Irish version of a plan and never got a single request.

Chips Lovell

As far as I know, there's never been any audit of how much is being spent as a result of the Official Languages Act or on value for money, i.e. whether money is being spent on services for which there is no demand or minimal demand.

tehjimmeh

An Coilean wrote: »

Ya, but the amount spent is not saveable. You cant leave students unsupervised for a few hours a week because they choose not to do Irish.

In theory they could do other subjects, which many would argue are a better use of time.

Unfortunately, the depressing reality of the modern education system is that exams are taught, not subjects. In this respect, I'm a little skeptical as to what added value there would be for students. The "why can't students speak Irish after 14 years of learning it?" question is often asked, but the bigger issue is that your average student comes out of secondary school no more able to critically analyze the works of Shakespeare or intuitively perform partial integration than communicate through Irish. Sure, they can rattle off English notes they've learned off by heart, and know which numbers to plug into a formula to get a maths result, the same way they've learned those Irish essays off without understanding a word of them, but they're generally completely void of any real skills in critical thinking or problem solving.

Some people say we just need to change the way Irish is taught, others say we need to scrap it, as no one ever gains anything of benefit by learning it. I say we need to change the way everything is taught, and scrap this awful teaching to exams system. Once we get to that point, then we can evaluate things like what should be compulsory and what should be optional. As it stands, if you were to make Irish optional, students would replace it with a subject that would actually be easier to gain high marks for their precious points in, and still not really learn anything of value.

</hugecynic>

An Coilean

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Some department are, yes certainly. If I recall correctly, Deasy got his figures by putting PQs to each of the ministers. The Department of Education accounted for almost half of the total. But I'd say the average local authority could generate as much if not more than some other departments.

Anyhow, the anecdote I cited is not an isolated case. For example, Clare County Council spent €30,000 translating a county development plan and not one copy was sold.

Cork County Council spent almost €90,000 having local development plans translated and didn't receive a single request.

Waterford County Council spent €26,000 on an Irish version of a plan and never got a single request.

I know that for the Clare example, the actual cost was only just over a third of that reported, the newspaper that reported on it in the first place got it wrong.
The main point though is that these reports are not produced for public consumption, its just a protocol of administration that they be prodiced and made available, An Cominiséir Teanga has advised that they be pfoduced only eletrtonically in Irish or English.
The reality of the case is that the English version of these reports are rarely requested also, again they are not really produced to satisfy demand bud because of protocol.