Do you Speak Irish?

LordSutch · 23-10-2012 06:26PM

9959 wrote: »

Perhaps the 'Bus Lana' story is a Dublin urban myth, but due to the zealous nature of Irish language 'hawks', how unbelievable is it?

Not an urban myth at all: What I remember is in about 2000/2001 all the bus lane markings being burned off all over the greater Dublin area, and replaced with either Lana Bus or Bus Lana (can't remember which version), but I can remember the smell of burning paint/tar and the fact that the english version 'Bus Lane' was burned off and replaced with the Irish version.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 23-10-2012 06:33PM

9959 wrote: »

I agree.
I think it's vitally important that we pretend we're a bilingual nation.
I believe that good money was thrown after bad - and the city's population was placed in grave danger - when some idiot marked the initial Dublin bus lanes 'Bus Lana' rather than the patently obvious 'Lana Bus', thankfully no lives were lost because of this calamitous error.

Perhaps the 'Bus Lana' story is a Dublin urban myth, but due to the zealous nature of Irish language 'hawks', how unbelievable is it?

I thought Lana Bus was the alter ego of a grafitti artist who worked on roads rather than walls...?

23-10-2012 06:40PM

LordSutch wrote: »

Not an urban myth at all: What I remember is in about 2000/2001 all the bus lane markings being burned off all over the greater Dublin area, and replaced with either Lana Bus or Bus Lana (can't remember which version), but I can remember the smell of burning paint/tar and the fact that the english version 'Bus Lane' was burned off and replaced with the Irish version )

Thanks for the info.
Whatever the reason, I think it's fair to say that Johnathan Swift himself couldn't make it up.
As for the waste of money, well I suppose it made a very small but vocal minority feel very smug.
So money well spent.

DDC1990 · 23-10-2012 06:47PM

9959 wrote: »

I agree.
I think it's vitally important that we pretend we're a bilingual nation.
I believe that good money was thrown after bad - and the city's population was placed in grave danger - when some idiot marked the initial Dublin bus lanes 'Bus Lana' rather than the patently obvious 'Lana Bus', thankfully no lives were lost because of this calamitous error.

Perhaps the 'Bus Lana' story is a Dublin urban myth, but due to the zealous nature of Irish language 'hawks', how unbelievable is it?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like it that money is being wasted either.

Im a Gaelgóir, but I don't care for shoving it down people's throats.

If there is a service available to me as Gaeilge (i.e Driving Test, Banking, etc.) I'll use it as Gaeilge, because of the money that has been spent to get the service. Im not going to protest if a service I use isn't as Gaeilge.

Like it or not we are a bilingual country. Its terrible that so many people were put off the Irish language through the education system, but steps are being taken at Primary level and Secondary level to improve the way Irish is being taught, and increase interest in the language. It might take a generation, but I believe that the use of Irish will become more widespread, and little things like having the oppertunity to use cúpla focal every day will help the language stay alive IMO.

Lots of people want the language and all that goes with it to die, and thats their own belief.

On the topic of the Bus Lanes, if it said Bus Lána instead of Lána Bus and they changed it, then I agree with that. Whats the point of having it in Irish if its incorrect. If it said Bus Lane and they spent big money to change it because people complained, then I don't agree with that.

I would like the language to survive, obviously, but the way to do that is not (as some of the more radical Gaelgóirí do) to shove it down peoples throats. I only reacted in such a sarcastic manner to that post as the whole point of his argument was that he had to press an extra button to get his money from the ATM, which is rediculous. Talk about first world problems!

LordSutch · 23-10-2012 07:00PM

DDC1990 wrote: »

On the topic of the Bus Lanes, if it said Bus Lána instead of Lána Bus and they changed it, then I agree with that. Whats the point of having it in Irish if its incorrect. If it said Bus Lane and they spent big money to change it because people complained, then I don't agree with that.

All the Dublin bus lanes had the english 'Bus Lane' printed on them until about 2000/2001, but then (for whatever reason) they were all burnt off and replaced with an Irish version.

23-10-2012 07:30PM

LordSutch wrote: »

All the Dublin bus lanes had the english 'Bus Lane' printed on them until about 2000/2001, but then (for whatever reason) they were all burnt off and replaced with an Irish version.

Call me Sherlock, here's my guess.

Originally they read 'BUS LANE', so The Irish language hawks swooped, "how dare you deprive us of our right to cause trouble etc..."

Smart guy in Dublin Bus says:"Erase the 'E' in LANE and stick an 'A' on the end".
Painter: "Job oxo"
Smart guy: "Grand"

Days later.

Irish Language Hawk: "No, no, no, LANA BUS not BUS LANA, how could you be so stupid"
Smart guy in Dublin Bus: "That's gonna cost a fortune"
Irish language hawk: "Just do it, I don't care how much money or disruption it costs and causes, I have a right under the constitution to kick up a stink about almost anything I want, no matter how trivial or ridiculous"

23-10-2012 07:36PM

LÁNA
BUS

OK which way do you read road markings, in Europe you read from the top to the bottom, not in Ireland oh no, they use the American system of reading from the bottom to the top.

Crooked Jack · 23-10-2012 08:25PM

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

It really does depend on how you define "speaking" the language though. It doesn't take any proof to say you do speak it often, nor do we know how to classify "often", especially when we've seen some claim simply knowing a few words constitutes "speaking" the language.

Nobody. not a single person, has suggested that. i just said people who tick never are probably not being 100per cent honest. never means never. a lot of people with an axe to grind are now taking that statement out of context and twisting its meaning to suit their own ends

An Coilean · 23-10-2012 08:49PM

opti0nal wrote: »

Everytime I use an ATM, I get asked if I want Irish or English. This should be a saved option so I can register my native language and not be prompted all of the time.

But, I guess some GaleGoer decided it would be cool to hassle people to try a 'coopla****le' every time they wanted access to their cash.

My heart truly bleeds for you.

An Coilean · 23-10-2012 08:52PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Then what's the problem? You're using it, ergo, it moves forward. It can be used in every aspect in life, ergo, it moves forward.

Those that want to do, those that don't shouldn't have to. Everyone wins. Even you.

In the vast vast majority of cases, you are forced to use English, regardless of what you want.
Thats the problem.

Gamayun · 23-10-2012 09:18PM

9959 wrote: »

Perhaps the 'Bus Lana' story is a Dublin urban myth, but due to the zealous nature of Irish language 'hawks', how unbelievable is it?

Something similar happened in Cork a while back, signs for the English Market were translated as "Béarla sa Mhargadh", which translates as "English (language) in the Market". It should have been "An Margadh Sasanach".

Examiner Story

pragmatic1 · 23-10-2012 09:21PM

Often enough, but not as much as I'd like. I love listening and talking in Irish, it's a very rich language.

LordSutch · 23-10-2012 10:39PM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

I love listening and talking in Irish, it's a very rich language.

Well I don't speak Irish, or at least I can't converse in Irish, but I do respect those like yourself who do.

What really annoys me intensely is the very small but powerful minority refered to by many as 'The Irish Lobby' who foist Irish upon the rest of the 95%+ english speaking population. Mandatory (failed) Irish lessons in school has been done to death in many threads, so I won't go there again.

PS: As a Dad I suppose I will have to learn a little Irish going forward so that I can help my kids
to do their Irish homework, either that or I'll leave the Irish homework for their Mum to sort out

)

opti0nal · 23-10-2012 11:04PM

DDC1990 wrote: »

we are a bilingual country.

That is a gross exageration, or, to put it simply: a lie. We are a country where more than one language is spoken, Polish and Mandarin being the most common second languges. We're not bilingual.

DDC1990 wrote: »

I only reacted in such a sarcastic manner to that post as the whole point of his argument was that he had to press an extra button to get his money from the ATM, which is rediculous. Talk about first world problems!

It's the accumulation of small annoyances that add up to much more. Like the time wasted displaying information in Irish on public signage in places where English is spoken by everyone. Or the valuable space wasted on Irish language safety warnings in Dart stations. Or indeed, forcing people to have the county name in Irish on cars they paid for themselves.

The ATM problem has a simple solution, but i guess the GaleGores would not like the idea of people permanently switching off the Irish version. Statistics on how many people select he Irish option would be interesting.

opti0nal · 23-10-2012 11:08PM

An Coilean wrote: »

In the vast vast majority of cases, you are forced to use English, regardless of what you want.
Thats the problem.

That's awful, you live in an English speaking country and people speak to you in English...truly awful. (not)

An Coilean · 23-10-2012 11:09PM

opti0nal wrote: »

Statistics on how many people select he Irish option would be interesting.

Why don't you send an Email to Bank of Ireland and ask them then?

An Coilean · 23-10-2012 11:13PM

opti0nal wrote: »

That's awful, you live in an English speaking country and people speak to you in English...truly awful. (not)

Interesting responce from someone constantly bemoaning people being forced to speak a language against their will.

opti0nal · 23-10-2012 11:48PM

An Coilean wrote: »

Interesting responce from someone constantly bemoaning people being forced to speak a language against their will.

Is forcing English-speaking children to speak Irish some kind of retaliation? Punishment for their ancestors turning their backs on Irish?

I have no problem with Irish speakers speaking Irish to each other, and if they want to interact with English speakers, they should expect to speak English.

For my part, I don't wish to speak Irish and will happily avoid any need to do so.

Live and let live.

DDC1990 · 23-10-2012 11:58PM

opti0nal wrote: »

Is forcing English-speaking children to speak Irish some kind of retaliation? Punishment for their ancestors turning their backs on Irish?

I have no problem with Irish speakers speaking Irish to each other, and if they want to interact with English speakers, they should expect to speak English.

For my part, I don't wish to speak Irish and will happily avoid any need to do so.

Live and let live.

Ok you can do that, but dont begrudge the people that want the opportunity to speak Irish and avail of Irish services, that opportunity, just because you feel that the Irish translation is "wasting valuable space and time".

Children are "forced" to speak English and learn Maths as well. Its the Irish curriculum. If you don't like it there are schools that have alternative curricula. Its not retaliation or anything of the sort. Its a subject, not torture.

Both Gaeilge and English are Official National Languages of the Republic of Ireland.

An Coilean · 24-10-2012 12:10AM

opti0nal wrote: »

Is forcing English-speaking children to speak Irish some kind of retaliation? Punishment for their ancestors turning their backs on Irish?

Retaliation? No, Its called Education, you should look it up sometime.

I have no problem with Irish speakers speaking Irish to each other, and if they want to interact with English speakers, they should expect to speak English.

What about If an Irish speaker wants to interact with their Government? Should they be forced to speak English? Should large companies force Irish speakers to speak English when dealing with them?

Surely choice is a good thing? Or is it just a waste of time and Money?

opti0nal · 24-10-2012 07:24AM

An Coilean wrote: »

Retaliation? No, Its called Education, you should look it up sometime.

Education should equip children with skills and knowledge they will need in their lives. Irish is a least suitable second language for the majority of children, yet they are given no choice. This abusive practice does not put the needs of children first.

An Coilean wrote: »

What about If an Irish speaker wants to interact with their Government? Should they be forced to speak English? Should large companies force Irish speakers to speak English when dealing with them?

Since Irish speakers live in an English speaking country (Ireland), it is inevitable that they will have to speak English when interacting with the majority English-speaking population. They suffer no material loss as a result of this fact as all Irish speakers speak quite excellent English.

An Coilean wrote: »

Surely choice is a good thing?

Odd that you think choice is good for Irish speakers but not for English speakers.

An Coilean wrote: »

Or is it just a waste of time and Money?

You should consider this. It's common sense. The only reason Irish speakers insist on forcing others to speak Irish is idealism. There is no practical need.

The language people speak should be a matter of personal choice, not public policy.

gbee · 24-10-2012 07:29AM

opti0nal wrote: »

The language people speak should be a matter of personal choice, not public policy.

No, we already have an international language, English. This is an should be the first official language that everyone knows.

All air traffic control is communicated in English for instance, be that Kenya or China. Most scientific journals are being written in English so as to have a common understanding.

After that you can mumble in Irish, Polish, Mandarin or Swahili over you coffee break.

A_Sober_Paddy · 24-10-2012 07:30AM

Never.

I was exempt from doing Irish in school, as I was diagnosed with dyslexia...

LordSutch · 24-10-2012 09:29AM

Is dyslexia the only opt out?

Malari · 24-10-2012 10:09AM

LordSutch wrote: »

Is dyslexia the only opt out?

No, I could have opted out too, as I was nearly 11 when I started learning Irish. My parents thought it would be good for me to learn and something to do with getting into an Irish university as an Irish resident...can't remember the deets of that.

An Coilean · 24-10-2012 10:14AM

opti0nal wrote: »

Since Irish speakers live in an English speaking country (Ireland), it is inevitable that they will have to speak English when interacting with the majority English-speaking population. They suffer no material loss as a result of this fact as all Irish speakers speak quite excellent English.

This is compleatly circular reasoning, Government failed to allow Irish speakers to interact with the Government through Irish, Therewfore they were forced to speak English, therefore the Government should force Irish speakers to speak English.

You may insist on ignoring the minority Irish speaking community, but I would not have that kind of selective reasoning applied in government policy, Ireland has more than one official language.

Odd that you think choice is good for Irish speakers but not for English speakers.

Is it as odd as thinking that there should be choice for English speakers but not Irish speakers?

The language people speak should be a matter of personal choice, not public policy.

I agree, Irish speakers should hjave a choice, yet you are suggesting that it should be public policy to force Irish speakers to speak English.
No thank you.

Chips Lovell · 24-10-2012 10:32AM

What I find annoying about the current public policy is the dual standards applied. For example, all official signs and information in English speaking areas have to be bilingual. Yet if you go to a Gaeltacht area, everything is only in Irish. The people most likely to need this information are non-locals, i.e. English speakers.

24-10-2012 10:54AM

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Often enough, but not as much as I'd like. I love listening and talking in Irish, it's a very rich language.

"Gaels! it delights my Gaelic heart to be here today speaking Gaelic to you at this Gaelic feis in the centre of the Gaeltacht.
May I state that I am a Gael.
I'm Gaelic from the crown of my head to the soles of my feet......
If we're truly Gaelic, we must discuss the question of the Gaelic revival and the question of Gaelicism.
There is no use having Gaelic, if we converse in it on non-Gaelic topics.
He who speaks Gaelic but fails to discuss the language question is not truly Gaelic in his heart......

.....There is nothing in life so nice and so Gaelic as truly true Gaelic Gaels who speak in true Gaelic Gaelic about the truly Gaelic language...."

From Flann O'Brien's 'The Poor Mouth'

Yes, yes before you jump in like a truly true Gael, 'An Beal Bocht'

Birroc · 24-10-2012 12:55PM

I live in Galway and if you head out the N59 towards Clifden, you will notice that they have recently blackened out the English names for all the towns on all the roadsigns.
So you will see for example;

==========
Barna
Bearna
==========

Some of the towns are less obvious as you go west.

I mean, who would bother to do that and why? I presume the council but what was wrong with having both?

Iwasfrozen · 24-10-2012 12:58PM

Birroc wrote: »

I live in Galway and if you head out the N59 towards Clifden, you will notice that they have recently blackened out the English names for all the towns on all the roadsigns.
So you will see for example;

==========
Barna
Bearna
==========

Some of the towns are less obvious as you go west.

I mean, who would bother to do that and why? I presume the council but what was wrong with having both?

Exactly. And why can't we have English language signs in the Gealtacht? Seems only Irish speakers have language rights.

Do you Speak Irish?

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