We want your feedback

01-10-2012 04:18PM #1

First of all, sorry for the delay in getting this one started, we wanted to ensure a full moderator team was on board and that's happened recently with our latest additions; Twee. and Lucyfur

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tLL was set up as a forum for the lady posters of Boards to discuss topics pertinent to them, from a female perspective - that isn't up for debate. This feedback is for posters (contributing posters in the main!) to get a chance to voice their concerns, irritations, thoughts about how the forum is operating, what direction the forum is going in and what direction they would like to see the forum go in.

So in short, no posts defending the use of whataboutery, no posts demanding a move away from tLL being aimed at and for lady posters to discuss topics from their perspective, etc.

Also, there are ways and means of getting your point across without being nasty - we'd hope all feedback and responses to that feedback are constructive and, if possible, evidenced.

Thanks

Ickle Magoo, Lucyfur, Rainbow Kirby, Twee., whoopsadaisydoodles, wibbs

Ellsbells · 01-10-2012 04:37PM

Thanks. I think women who are parents should be able to talk about it here just as much as any other topic. Do we move the thread on periods just because some women have gone through menopause? There is a definite trend towards villifying women who have kids and its becoming wearing..

Stench Blossoms · 01-10-2012 04:39PM

I think because there is a forum for Parenting already that those kind of discussions would be more appropriate there?

Just because I am a woman doesn't mean I have any interest in kids.

Ella · 01-10-2012 04:43PM

Ellsbells wrote: »

Thanks. I think women who are parents should be able to talk about it here just as much as any other topic. Do we move the thread on periods just because some women have gone through menopause? There is a definite trend towards villifying women who have kids and its becoming wearing..

You've been told this over and over. There is a parenting forum. This is the ladies lounge and we all get periods at some stage so that thread belongs in here a hell of a lot more than a thread about parents/ kids.

eviltwin · 01-10-2012 04:45PM

There is clearly no place in here for a "what nappies do you use" style thread but I can't see the thread that was put up about TV3 in Parenting either.

Mods could you clarify exactly what is okay to discuss in relation to children? Its a huge part of who many of us are and it would be nice to be able to talk about it without derision.

KamiKazeKitten · 01-10-2012 04:48PM

We don't all have to be interested in every single topic that pops up in tLL.

My suggestion would be, if you're not interested in a thread, just don't bother with it.
Plenty of women have children or would be interested in talking about motherhood, leave 'em at it.

eviltwin · 01-10-2012 04:51PM

And if you post a topic on motherhood you have to expect that parents will post on it! There are some massive chips on shoulders in LL, if someone having kids is so offensive don't start topics on the subject or maybe tailor it to childless women if those are the views you want.

01-10-2012 04:52PM

I don't think it's very constructive to accuse everyone of saying parents are offensive, not in the least. I have never seen anyone even come close to implying or stating that.

Honey-ec · 01-10-2012 04:56PM

eviltwin wrote: »

And if you post a topic on motherhood you have to expect that parents will post on it! There are some massive chips on shoulders in LL, if someone having kids is so offensive don't start topics on the subject or maybe tailor it to childless women if those are the views you want.

I've no problem with threads such as the one about Mitt Romney's wife, or the "Most Important Thing You'll Ever Do" one, as they're relevant discussions about the perceived link between femininity and motherhood.

However, I don't think tLL is the place for general dicussions on mothering, if that makes sense.

Ella · 01-10-2012 04:56PM

Ok, let me make my point clearer. If i wanted to talk about football I'd go to that forum. If i wanted to talk about politics I'd go there. Why should motherhood be in here and not the parenting forum? If motherhood threads are allowed in here i have a fear of every second thread being about just that. Instead of general Ladies issues.

AhInFairness · 01-10-2012 05:02PM

I once modded this forum (in my previous existence on this site) and the overriding principle of the forum was that anything could be discussed from a female point of view. I find it really sad that posters here are annoyed at threads about children/motherhood and I find it extremely galling that people are essentially being told, by other non-mod posters, to take their discussion elsewhere. What ever happened to 'if you've no interest in the topic don't read the thread.'?

TLL has always been a safe place for women to talk about things from their point of view, and that of course will include having children for some posters. Child-free threads are accommodated in this forum so why not the other perspective?

I have to say, if the current moderaters decide threads on having children aren't welcome in this forum it would be an absolute disgrace and I genuinely hope it doesn't happen.

Ellsbells · 01-10-2012 05:03PM

Its not the same. Parenting is more information based. I think if a topic relates to women then it should be open for discussion in TLL. If I dont have an interest in a thread I dont wade in and ask for it to be moved, I just ignore it....

I agree with the last poster, if you cant discuss bring a mother in TLL then I object to people talking about hobbies and relationships (as there is a Relationships forum) and so on.... Are you going to stop the ;
'where did you meet your other half threads' cos some people are single. Its nuts!!!

Das Kitty · 01-10-2012 05:06PM

Ella wrote: »

Ok, let me make my point clearer. If i wanted to talk about football I'd go to that forum. If i wanted to talk about politics I'd go there. Why should motherhood be in here and not the parenting forum? If motherhood threads are allowed in here i have a fear of every second thread being about just that. Instead of general Ladies issues.

But aspects of politics and sports pertinent to women are discussed here. There are certain things about parenting that are woman-centric. For example, breastfeeding and how it's viewed by society and how that affects us.

When I had my kid, my conflict between my knowledge of myself as a person and the apparent "human factory" I had become was something I wanted to talk about. To other women, women who had been through it and those who hadn't.

Yes, I think parenting tips and issues that affect both genders equally should be in the parenting forum. But there are aspects of parenthood that are "womens' issues."

woodchuck · 01-10-2012 05:06PM

Would one big megathread or else a subforum on mothering/motherhood be an idea? I've no interest in kids so just wouldn't really read any threads about them, but I wouldn't want to see every 2nd thread to be about it either. But I do think it has a place here (within reason; I trust the mods to move threads to parenting forum as appropriate).

Ella · 01-10-2012 05:11PM

I get that, Das. But it seems that the same posters keep posting/starting threads on motherhood and wanting a pat on the back. It feels like sometimes in here us "childless" ladies are not as important. I work too, i work damn hard. I dont expect a pat on the back.

Anyway i'm totally going off topic. I've said my piece on the motherhood threads.

/btw i love all the kids i know

I'm not a total witch.

01-10-2012 05:14PM

I have no problem with motherhood threads in here. Different issues affect us all as women, whether it's politics, sport, motherhood.
I do think we need to call a truce though between both entrenched camps.
If we feel besieged on all sides by media or family etc telling us we have to be mothers or we're useless, we can discuss that without necessarily having to be told every time that we have a chip on our shoulder and get over it and that we somehow think being a mother is offensive.
If mothers want to post about motherhood issues and the exact opposite and things like DK's example of "me as a person vs me as a mother", we won't go saying "well we're not all mothers you know".
There is overlap but maybe we can agree on stuff like that.

meeeeh · 01-10-2012 05:22PM

I think we should be allowed to discuss whatever (and motherhood is just one of the subjects) from female point of view. I might find all the discussions on violence against women, female safety etc a bit boring but I'm not complaining that not all of us were the victims of some kind of violence or want to discuss it. There are enough posters here that want those subjects discussed so why not talk about them. However when somebody is looking for a practical advice on subjects that are better covered in other forums (parenting, personal issues, fashion, literature...) the topic should be moved. But even if half of the threads here are about parenthood or relationships or sport or violence against women, you can still ignore those and participate in the ones that interest you.

It's not like there is a limited amount of posts available and if they are all written about parenting, there is nothing left for other threads.

Das Kitty · 01-10-2012 05:29PM

Ella wrote: »

I get that, Das. But it seems that the same posters keep posting/starting threads on motherhood and wanting a pat on the back. It feels like sometimes in here us "childless" ladies are not as important. I work too, i work damn hard. I dont expect a pat on the back.

See that I don't understand.

Like, I see the thread about the couch to 10k and I think to myself, fair play, but you'll never see me doing that. I don't feel like I'm being treated as lesser because people are doing that and giving themselves kudos.

I do get that running doesn't have the generations oppressive presumption behind it. But if people want to take pride in parenting, it shouldn't lessen or threaten any other person's pride in their lives and what they do.

Ella · 01-10-2012 05:32PM

Das Kitty wrote: »

See that I don't understand.

Like, I see the thread about the couch to 10k and I think to myself, fair play, but you'll never see me doing that. I don't feel like I'm being treated as lesser because people are doing that and giving themselves kudos.

I do get that running doesn't have the generations oppressive presumption behind it. But if people want to take pride in parenting, it shouldn't lessen or threaten any other person's pride in their lives and what they do.

Just because you dont see it, doesnt mean some posters dont do it. There have been quite a few posters in here who have made me (and others) feel like that.

Ellsbells · 01-10-2012 05:34PM

Ella wrote: »

Just because you dont see it, doesnt mean some posters dont do it. There have been quite a few posters in here who have made me (and others) feel like that.

For example??

rainbow kirby · 01-10-2012 05:38PM

Ellsbells wrote: »

For example??

Mod: She doesn't have to name names. This is a general forum feedback thread, not a witch hunt.

Links234 · 01-10-2012 05:44PM

to be honest, I think it's very important to have a broad topic base on the ladies lounge, I look at it as basically a safe space (or rather safe-ish, I know some folks have their issues with the place and I don't want to dismiss that either) where we are free to talk of things through our perspective lens. if we whittle it down to stuff that has to directly relates to womanhood rather than just general topics from women's perspectives, it doesn't leave a whole lot does it? like for example that going to concerts by yourself thread, well couldn't that easily be in the music section? you could completely strip down the forum in that way

eviltwin · 01-10-2012 05:48PM

Ella wrote: »

I get that, Das. But it seems that the same posters keep posting/starting threads on motherhood and wanting a pat on the back. It feels like sometimes in here us "childless" ladies are not as important. I work too, i work damn hard. I dont expect a pat on the back.

Anyway i'm totally going off topic. I've said my piece on the motherhood threads.

/btw i love all the kids i know I'm not a total witch.

The two most recent threads about motherhood - Ann Romney and TV3 - were posted by childless women.

Ella · 01-10-2012 05:50PM

eviltwin wrote: »

The two most recent threads about motherhood - Ann Romney and TV3 - were posted by childless women.

Did you miss the part in my post where i put post/start threads?

Anyway once again, i've said my bit on this topic. I'll pop back in if something else gets thrown in this thread

g'em · 01-10-2012 05:53PM

Sometimes, when I go through periods of being intensely passionate about something, I tend to talk about it quite a lot. It's important to me so why wouldn't I? But my friends and loved ones know me well enough that if they feel I'm talking about it too much, they gently try to change the subject. If that doesn't work they just tell me to shut up. Usually I don't realise I've been talking about it as much as I have and I'm glad of the heads up.

Subjects in tLL will often crop up in fashions - abortion will be the topic du jour one week, sexism in the workplace the next, threads about what you adore/hate/wish for in your partner the week after that. Every topic is entitled to have its day if there are willing posters without fear of being told their topic is silly or unrepresentative of women.

BUT when the day for that topic passes, let it go for a bit. If someone suggests there are too many of one topic then it's only manners to go, "ok, that's fair enough, time for a new conversation starter". Anything more complicated than that is a waste of energy; have some respect for fellow posters.

KamiKazeKitten · 01-10-2012 05:55PM

As Links and others have said, a broad topic base is important for tLL imo. If nothing else, it'll help keep traffic for the forum up, as different people are interested in different things.

I agree of course that "how to get a crying baby to sleep" etc are obviously more suited to Parenting and should be sent there. Likewise with "what matches this dress?" being scooted off to F&A. But I think threads about motherhood and it's effect on women aren't out of place here.

Some women have children, and they are an important part of their lives. Some don't but want to. Some don't want any. Such are the wonders of the world, that we're not all identikit creatures. And as we're free to make these choices, we should be free to discuss how our choices have impacted us, no?

Take a look at one of the first sentences from the charter. "This forum is for the discussion of topics from a woman's point of view."
Different women have different experiences. If you can't relate to something or just have no interest in it, skip over it! And if you'd prefer to talk about something else, there's always that little New Thread button to click on.

I think I've probably said my 2c on the motherhood thing, I'll jump back in if something else pops up.

AhInFairness · 01-10-2012 05:59PM

Ella wrote: »

Das Kitty wrote: »

See that I don't understand.

Like, I see the thread about the couch to 10k and I think to myself, fair play, but you'll never see me doing that. I don't feel like I'm being treated as lesser because people are doing that and giving themselves kudos.

I do get that running doesn't have the generations oppressive presumption behind it. But if people want to take pride in parenting, it shouldn't lessen or threaten any other person's pride in their lives and what they do.

Just because you dont see it, doesnt mean some posters dont do it. There have been quite a few posters in here who have made me (and others) feel like that.

So report the posts. Otherwise don't read threads that you have no interest in. You, and others, should most definitely not be dictating what can be discussed in here and as someone who has been on this site for a very long time I find that attitude utterly offensive.

The ethos off the forum hasn't changed since it was created - a safe place for female posters to discuss topics from a female perspective.

It's bad enough having to deal with the 'what about men' rubbish without having other women tell some that their opinion isn't welcome in the forum. It's actually extremely depressing.

Ella · 01-10-2012 06:09PM

AhInFairness wrote: »

So report the posts. Otherwise don't read threads that you have no interest in. You, and others, should most definitely not be dictating what can be discussed in here and as someone who has been on this site for a very long time I find that attitude utterly offensive.

I'm sorry, did you not read the thread topic? I was giving MY feedback. I too have been on this site a very long time so dont think you're talking to some noob who doesnt know the lay of the land! I find your post very offensive and very condesending!

AhInFairness wrote: »

The ethos off the forum hasn't changed since it was created - a safe place for female posters to discuss topics from a female perspective.

I agree.

AhInFairness wrote: »

It's bad enough having to deal with the 'what about men' rubbish without having other women tell some that their opinion isn't welcome in the forum. It's actually extremely depressing.

Again, check out the thread topic. Feedback, just in case you didnt get that. I gave my feedback. You on the other hand are attacking me for giving my feedback.

Ickle Magoo · 01-10-2012 06:12PM

Folks,

The whole point of this thread is to get loungers views on where the forum is and where it is going.

Parenting threads are one topic that has been highlighted numerous times and that is something we would like explored - that isn't going to happen if posters take it upon themselves to unilaterally declare how such threads will be dealt with or dismiss concerns.

If posters want threads dealt with differently, then this is the very thread to discuss that/make that point.

Cheers.

eviltwin · 01-10-2012 06:13PM

AhInFairness wrote: »

So report the posts. Otherwise don't read threads that you have no interest in. You, and others, should most definitely not be dictating what can be discussed in here and as someone who has been on this site for a very long time I find that attitude utterly offensive.

The ethos off the forum hasn't changed since it was created - a safe place for female posters to discuss topics from a female perspective.

It's bad enough having to deal with the 'what about men' rubbish without having other women tell some that their opinion isn't welcome in the forum. It's actually extremely depressing.

Sometimes its not as easy as that though, there was a thread a while back about this, about how some people don't post because of a general vibe about a thread. I don't post on somethings because I am afraid of being picked apart for not having anything other than a passing knowledge of a subject. So I can see why some posters feel certain threads are no go without being able to report specific posts if that makes sense.

On another point I know we can't name threads or posts but I would always welcome a heads up if anyone felt I was posting in a way that intimidated anyone. Its not something I would ever do intentionally but when you feel passionate about something you can lose the run of yourself a bit

jaja321 · 01-10-2012 06:25PM

As someone who is not a mother, I have absolutely no problem at all with issues relating to being a mother being discussed here. Certain topics would be more relevant here instead of the parenting forum as they are from a female perspective. I've also never felt that I'm not as important as a childless woman to those that have children - that's my personal experience. I wouldn't like to see a situation whereby these issues could not be discussed - I think that would be grossly unfair to those who wish to discuss them. Anything being discussed from a female perspective should be fair game and if I don't feel like reading a thread because of its content, I won't.

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