Spoilers Series 7, Episode 5 - "The Angels Take Manhatten"

pixelburp · 28-09-2012 8:03am #1

Is it that time already? Those 5 weeks have flown by, and we're already at the climax of the first half of the season; featuring the worst kept secret of the series possibly - that this is the Ponds' final story

I think a lot of people around here seemed to grow tired of their schtick but I always loved Amy/Rory's vibrant snarkiness and the chemistry between the trio was pretty special. They pretty much got all the best lines & zingers too.

Not going to post any trailers 'cos frankly I'm still annoyed about one that spoilt part of the episode's big surprise.

Doctor DooM · 28-09-2012 9:50am

I don't know what that suprise is but PLEASE don't spoil it on me...

Das Kitty · 28-09-2012 3:37pm

My desktop wallpaper has been changed in readiness and I still have to wait nearly 28 hours. *twiddles thumbs*

I love the Ponds too, and though I'm going to miss them I am really looking forward to seeing how their story ends. Big-time. I'm very excited about this episode, the Angels are always scary and the setting is great. I've seen some stills and the on location shooting came out really beautifully.

I know the trailer you're talking about pixelburp, it was such a shame that it was spoiled by the trailer. There's a couple of other trailers and snippets (not including that one) on the official BBC site, if anyone is interested.

bradyle · 29-09-2012 8:26am

Nooooo!! I thought we were only at episode 4. I'm not ready for this!! I haven't prepared!!

I love the Ponds! I'm going to cry like a baby tonight even if they get their happy ending, and I really don't think they will! The Doctor promised Rory's dad last week that they wouldn't die...I did not like that...The Doctor Lies!

I am still looking forward to this episode...the angels are my favorite bad guy, they are beyond terrifying! And I really do want to see how the Pond story finally ties up. I'm hoping for them to be given a child to raise somehow and it is all happy.

I really know nothing about this weeks episode other than it's set in New York in the past, I've avoided all the trailers. So can not wait for 8.20 just have to have my tissues ready, oh and a cushion to hide behind!!!

Das Kitty · 29-09-2012 10:50am

bradyle wrote: »

So can not wait for 8.20

7.20! Don't miss it.

bradyle · 29-09-2012 7:25pm

I'm GMT+1 so 8.20 for me!!! It's on!!

29-09-2012 8:06pm

*bursts into tears*

off.the.walls · 29-09-2012 8:10pm

what a brilliant ending for the ponds!! the angels freak me out beyond belief though

Basq · 29-09-2012 8:10pm

Not an amazing episode by any means..

.. and it was only going to end one way really.

Still - the Angel popping up behind Rory was still a shocker.

Amy Pond's "Afterword" was a nice little touch too.

Wing126 · 29-09-2012 8:11pm

Aw man... that was just...

gufnork · 29-09-2012 8:11pm

My wife says she feels cheated. I just feel like I've had my heart ripped out.

Hashtag_HEEL · 29-09-2012 8:16pm

That episode could bring a tear to the hardest of hardmen's eyes! Well don Mr. Moffat

gufnork · 29-09-2012 8:16pm

Basq wrote: »

Not an amazing episode by any means..

How does that not get you... right there, just right there?

...and it so was amazing!

Basq · 29-09-2012 8:18pm

gufnork wrote: »

How does that not get you... right there, just right there?

...and it so was amazing!

No, the ending was great.

But the episode itself, with regards to the Angels, never really grabbed me. Could be because I watched 'Blink' again this evening in preparation, and that's too hard to top.

I did like the idea of an "Battery Farm" for Angels though.

amen · 29-09-2012 8:25pm

A great episode. Reminds me of the demise of Aldric :-( (another great companion).

The Angels were their usual terrifying selves.

What was the significance of the Rolls Royce vehicle plate on the inside of the Tardis?

So the Dr has finally managed to erase himself from History. Interesting.

BuffyBot · 29-09-2012 8:46pm

Thought the intro was a bit of a waste of time. Otherwise it wasn't too bad an episode with a reasonably fitting set up for the Pond's exit and quite a final one for them too.

Also guessing well get at least one more River episode from the set up in the plot (she's pardoned and a professor now etc..)

gufnork · 29-09-2012 8:52pm

amen wrote: »

What was the significance of the Rolls Royce vehicle plate on the inside of the Tardis?

So the Dr has finally managed to erase himself from History. Interesting.

Didn't notice the number plate.

Yes, the erasing himself from history has just got to be significant. Easy to miss this amidst all the excitement and sadnessI Wonder if they decided that it'd be 'a good day to bury bad news', so to speak, hoping we'd miss that little nouget maybe. I'd almost forgotten it already until you brought it up. I'm convinced it's going to be especially important otherwise why even go there. Gotta be good.

Doctor DooM · 29-09-2012 8:57pm

Erased himself everywhere in history- except for Unit

Sniff at the end of that episode. Seriously. Just sniff.

gufnork · 29-09-2012 9:03pm

Christmas is a long way off. Thank god for Tom Baker on YouTube!

Raphael · 29-09-2012 9:06pm

The missus and I were bawling our eyes out twice during the episode. Absolutely loved it, brought the angels back to the credibility of Blink, imo.

Tzar Chasm · 29-09-2012 9:15pm

Wow, that was brilliant, what an ending, and rory's logic on the roof.
In fairness tho some bits of it were a little ropey, but overall fantastic episode

cloud493 · 29-09-2012 9:20pm

I wasn't crying. Manly tears of sweat in my eyes :pac:

gufnork · 29-09-2012 9:23pm

cloud493 wrote: »

I wasn't crying. Manly tears of sweat in my eyes :pac:

The big lump in my throat held mine back.

cloud493 · 29-09-2012 9:26pm

gufnork wrote: »

The big lump in my throat held mine back.

I was being stoic. You know, not reacting.... oh god it was so sad. What a way to end their journey. More importantly, the doctors reaction, the idea that he lost someone else.

Penn · 29-09-2012 9:43pm

I was sure Amy's glasses would be significant. I had this weird theory before the show that Amy would somehow be turned into a Weeping Angel (somehow tie the story into what happened her at the crash of the Byzantium) and maybe kill Rory. Then when I saw Amy with the glasses, I was sure Amy would disappear during the episode and The Doctor would notice a Weeping Angel wearing glasses like hers or something.

I mean, I liked what Moffat did, but I also think mine would have been pretty cool

Manach · 29-09-2012 9:58pm

A fine farewell to an excellent Dr.'s companion. So the future Ponds which were present in "The Hungry Earth" are not viable now or was that issue re-booted previously in the "Big Bang" episode?

gufnork · 29-09-2012 10:13pm

Penn wrote: »

I was sure Amy's glasses would be significant. I had this weird theory before the show that Amy would somehow be turned into a Weeping Angel (somehow tie the story into what happened her at the crash of the Byzantium) and maybe kill Rory. Then when I saw Amy with the glasses, I was sure Amy would disappear during the episode and The Doctor would notice a Weeping Angel wearing glasses like hers or something.

I mean, I liked what Moffat did, but I also think mine would have been pretty cool

Actually that would have been freaking amazing. I would have loved that. I bet it didn't even occur to him. You should send him a link to your post just to really piss him off. I'm gonna go to sleep tonight and when I wake up yours is the one that Will have happened. Kudos to You!

bradyle · 29-09-2012 10:26pm

I actually wasnt a big fan of the angels in that... but the Amy and Rory bits were amazing! I am still teary and its been over an hour. I loved how the doctor begged her to not go but she chose Rory. I never doubted she would but it was nice to see she didn't even consider it. I do feel a bit cheated though! I want to know what their life was like No big details or anything but maybe a flash of an image or two of them happy in New York in the 60s or being old, just to know what they did with their lives!

Also this whole thing bout not being able to travel to New York in 1938...could they not just move somewhere else and he visit...like he didn't say the entire year...just the city...seems a bit silly. Even if it was the entire year why not just go another year. I didnt get that bit tbh

Killer_banana · 29-09-2012 10:27pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BKpQSiL2HM

This is the ending I will choose to remember. Not something written not because it was a natural or good conclusion to the story but for the sole purpose of it being big and shocking and heartbreaking.

I can take a sad ending if I feel it's the right choice (how Donna left for example) but this felt like it was heartbreaking for the sake of it and I didn't like it. I liked the episode up until I realised what was going to happen but the ending undid all that good will

pixelburp · 29-09-2012 10:44pm

I'm actually kinda like the Doctor, I hate endings myself. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little glassy eyed by the climax -and in classic cinematic fashion they did so after it seemed the day was won.

I'm glad though Amy & Rory get to live their days out with each other, to be honest anything else would have been a horrible way to end their arc - after all that that couple had gone through the very least they deserved was a happy life with each other; they've had enough sh*t thrown their way, give them a break people!

That said, it's still a dreadfully bittersweet ending, given the Doc is left on his own again. It seems to have become a trend in new-Who that the leaving of a companion must involve some form of emotional torment for the Doctor - and it's one that I don't particularly care for: whatever happened to his friends just moving on with their lives - why must it be some form of crippling emotional drama now?

Otherwise I thought it was a good episode & it's to Moffats credit that 3 stories in, the Angels still feel like a threat & legitimately creepy. The cherubs alone were just shiver-inducing (though the Statue of Liberty - the bit that the trailers spoiled damnit - seemed a bit gratuitous in the end & neither made sense nor served any purpose).

Onwards and forwards I guess: where to next? We have 8 more episodes (discounting the Xmas one) and I'm sceptical they will be the same standalone stories we saw in the 5 just gone; what do we suspect might be the arc? It has been bubbling in the background & Rivers conversation about the Doctor's apparent disappearance from existence must surely play into this. There's also the matter of Jenna Louise Colemans character & how it'll tie into the Asylum... episode. She'll be in the Xmas episode - but as what?

ixoy · 29-09-2012 10:45pm

Liked the Angels bit - not loved - but liked.

However, the real point of this was the Amy and Rory moments. A great send off here and it was fitting in many ways. Amy, once and for all, chose Rory. They've been preparing the Doctor for this moment throughout the season but the Doctor's desperation was done very well. I want to see how he reacts next to periods of loneliness - River Song clearly stated she couldn't stay with him.

One of the stand out farewells in the show (Donna's was done well too).

cloud493 · 29-09-2012 10:46pm

Well his friends leaving is an ending. The doctor hates endings :rolleyes:

Penn · 29-09-2012 10:46pm

gufnork wrote: »

Penn wrote: »

I was sure Amy's glasses would be significant. I had this weird theory before the show that Amy would somehow be turned into a Weeping Angel (somehow tie the story into what happened her at the crash of the Byzantium) and maybe kill Rory. Then when I saw Amy with the glasses, I was sure Amy would disappear during the episode and The Doctor would notice a Weeping Angel wearing glasses like hers or something.

I mean, I liked what Moffat did, but I also think mine would have been pretty cool

Actually that would have been freaking amazing. I would have loved that. I bet it didn't even occur to him. You should send him a link to your post just to really piss him off. I'm gonna go to sleep tonight and when I wake up yours is the one that Will have happened. Kudos to You!

Haha thanks. I think Moffat already left Twitter so I'll leave him alone.

Killer_banana · 29-09-2012 10:51pm

pixelburp wrote: »

That said, it's still a dreadfully bittersweet ending, given the Doc is left on his whatever happened to his friends just moving on with their lives - why must it be some form of crippling emotional drama now?

Simply quoting because I agree so much.

pixelburp wrote: »

Onwards and forwards I guess: where to next? We have 8 more episodes (discounting the Xmas one) and I'm sceptical they will be the same standalone stories we saw in the 5 just gone; what do we suspect might be the arc? It has been bubbling in the background & Rivers conversation about the Doctor's apparent disappearance from existence must surely play into this. There's also the matter of Jenna Louise Colemans character & how it'll tie into the Asylum... episode. She'll be in the Xmas episode - but as what?

I think it's going to have something to do with the Doctor having erased himself and how he shouldn't travel alone. Those two themese have been hinted at very heavily. They may be explored seperately but I quite like the idea of exploring the idea how do you stay hidden from history and not travel alone? If he leaves a string of companions in your wake all across time then how can he stay forgotten?

pixelburp · 29-09-2012 11:17pm

Killer_banana wrote: »

I think it's going to have something to do with the Doctor having erased himself and how he shouldn't travel alone. Those two themese have been hinted at very heavily. They may be explored seperately but I quite like the idea of exploring the idea how do you stay hidden from history and not travel alone? If he leaves a string of companions in your wake all across time then how can he stay forgotten?

Well someone in one of the other episode threads put forward the theory that the Doctors disappearance from history is actually all part of The Silences plan, that 'the question that must never be answered' (Dr. Who?) is not about the Doctors real name, but that he might once again be known to the universe and thus be a thorn in the Silences' ultimate plan.

Oh and I think someone should say it: as emotional as all that was, there's always the chance of Rory & Amy coming back; if Rose could come back from being apparently trapped in another universe, then the Ponds can certainly pop-up if circumstances ever demanded it.

Das Kitty · 29-09-2012 11:22pm

Still formulating my thoughts.

Once I knew what the monsters were going to be this week, my first thought would be that they'd be sent back to the past and "live to death". It's a fitting ending for them both.

I'd like to think that when 1969 came around that they'd find their daughter somehow, considering where they're living out their days. Maybe that's why River was eager that Amy touch the angel, because she knew all along?

I agree with pixelburp that the Statue of Liberty bit seemed so unnecessary to the episode. However, here's a thought that might give it payoff. The image of an angel becomes itself an angel, right? How many of us have postcards, fridge magnets, statuettes of lady liberty in our homes? oooowwoowoo!

BTW, I don't know how anyone can like how it ended for Donna. Seriously, she could have at least been given the choice to forget or die, but he basically raped her of her memories. She was screaming no as he was doing it. It gave me the heebeejeebies. That's not even mentioning the fact that her last episode was completely taken over by Rose coming back (for no apparent reason).

Agent Smith · 29-09-2012 11:54pm

I swear its United losing today that has me upset... I swear.

Kinda want to The Eleventh Hour now...

BlitzKrieg · 30-09-2012 12:40am

Hmmmm

what is it about doctor who and new york that it ends up neutering interesting villains.

I didnt like the angel storyline at all, felt very weak, the liberty angel and the baby statues lacked menace, the battery farm while interesting as a premise never really got fleshed out, reminded me a bit of the episode where they are stuck in a hotel from the previous season.

Also there are little things that have been dropped that disapoint me, the weeping angels no longer really cover their eyes and far too often show the scary side, also there are a few points where the angels would be looking at each other. Also the babies giggling and making sounds in the dark also kills some of the original menace of the angels as I recall that originally in blink they dont actually *move* in our dimension. So the silent moving of the angels was a lot more menacing.

I'd hope for something clever to explain the liberty angel (as someone is *always* watching the statue of liberty,)

But we are here for the ponds departure really, and that's fine I guess, not a major tear jerker, I thought the earlier scene with river's wrist was more interesting as an insight into the doctor then anything.

Jessibelle · 30-09-2012 12:41am

Das Kitty wrote: »

?

However, here's a thought that might give it payoff. The image of an angel becomes itself an angel, right? .

only when it suits the plot it would seem, else the very prominent picture of lady liberty in the lift in the Winter Quay would have finished off everyone, since they all travelled up with their backs to it...:rolleyes:

LoonyLovegood · 30-09-2012 7:29am

I enjoyed it an awful lot. I'm just finished, and both the brother and I were creeped out by it. The intro wasn't great, but the ending was fantastic, I was sitting down just sobbing at Amy. I'm glad they got some part of a happy ending, out of all the companions in the new series thus far they deserved it.

Agent J · 30-09-2012 10:48am

The only world i could speak for a while after it was "Aw..."

*Sniff*

I didn't tear up... i have a cold. I swear.

gufnork · 30-09-2012 1:15pm

Fancy reading Melody Malone's novel just like in the episode? Well, on 4th October you'll be able to since it's being released as an ebook. Seems it'll be the first of many written from the viewpoint of a character. I'm loving this. Here's the link,

http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2012/09/melody-malone-270912171508.html?m=1

I'll be the one at the front of the virtual queue.

norrie rugger · 30-09-2012 2:14pm

Manach wrote: »

A fine farewell to an excellent Dr.'s companion. So the future Ponds which were present in "The Hungry Earth" are not viable now or was that issue re-booted previously in the "Big Bang" episode?

The Ponds had plenty of time, during the years in between Doctor visits, to make that trip.

The afterword that Amy wrote, basically telling the Doctor that he had to visit Amelia and tell the little Amelia the story of Amy Williams. Does that mean that Amy knew what was going to happen all along?

norrie rugger · 30-09-2012 2:20pm

pixelburp wrote: »

. There's also the matter of Jenna Louise Colemans character & how it'll tie into the Asylum... episode. She'll be in the Xmas episode - but as what?

Remember that Gwen Cooper (Torchwood) had a great great aunt, in the Dickens episode.
They could bring her in as a historical relative

norrie rugger · 30-09-2012 2:24pm

Jessibelle wrote: »

only when it suits the plot it would seem, else the very prominent picture of lady liberty in the lift in the Winter Quay would have finished off everyone, since they all travelled up with their backs to it...:rolleyes:

Nope, they needed to "See" themselves aged, for the farm to work.
The angels had to fix the timeline to make sure that the people kept coming back and could not change things

Jessibelle · 30-09-2012 2:32pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

Nope, they needed to "See" themselves aged, for the farm to work.
The angels had to fix the timeline to make sure that the people kept coming back and could not change things

Ah well, that bit totally escaped me

thanks

pixelburp · 30-09-2012 4:13pm

norrie rugger wrote: »

Remember that Gwen Cooper (Torchwood) had a great great aunt, in the Dickens episode.
They could bring her in as a historical relative

Was she? I don't remember either show directly mentioning they were related; in any case, this is different as the actor is appearing twice in quick succession in the same season, of the same show - I'd be very surprised if the connection is simply token. It wouldn't seem very Moffat'y

Manach wrote: »

A fine farewell to an excellent Dr.'s companion. So the future Ponds which were present in "The Hungry Earth" are not viable now or was that issue re-booted previously in the "Big Bang" episode?

No, it still could have happened: from the approximate end of Series 6 to last night's episode, the Ponds have only intermittently travelled with the Doctor and I think years had passed between the end of #6 and the start of #7 (wasn't '10 years' mentioned at some point?) - certainly long enough for Amy to start an apparently successful modelling career.

BuffyBot · 30-09-2012 4:30pm

Was she? I don't remember either show directly mentioning they were related

Yeah, it was directly referenced in DW. Tenth Doctor speaks to Gwen and Ianto who are in the Torchwood hub on the monitor during The Stolen Earth/Journey's End. When he clocks the similarity, he asks Gwen about her ancestry.

Sudden Valley · 30-09-2012 4:51pm

I did like the episode but I can't help but feel that Doctor Who is becoming too depressing in how it deals with the leaving of companions. People may say that at least the ponds have each other but you know to their parents and friends they've just disappeared with no explanation. I'm not sure i can now classify DW as a light-hearted show i watch.

VinLieger · 30-09-2012 5:36pm

After all the buildup i was pretty dissapointed, yes we lost Amy and Rory and they ended up together but still i think moffats writing leaves alot to be desired, the end of the last season and this episode are probably the low points imo of moffatts episodes

Sleepy · 01-10-2012 9:23am

Loved the ending... but: how come the old Rory hadn't seen Amy in so long if she always went back and joined him there and the gravestone indicated that she died 5 years after him.

Did the paradox destroy that time-line, creating a new one where Rory and Amy go back in time to the same graveyard they were transported from (or another no-longer angel infested location?).

**Spoilers** Series 7, Episode 5 - "The Angels Take Manhatten"

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Spoilers Series 7, Episode 5 - "The Angels Take Manhatten"