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Pitch Invasion - What you think of it?

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    #212
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Ronald Cold Planetarium wrote: »
    and why could they not get out of the stands?
    :rolleyes:

    They weren't penned in because they threatened a pitch invasion.


    because people are not that stupid

    Most people have accidents because of stupidity of one sort or another. If you can't see the possibility of an accident there than you are the stupid one.
    Repeat: If the GAA where serious about fan safety this would not be allowed to happen.


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    #213
    8k2q1gfcz9s5d4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    They weren't penned in because they threatened a pitch invasion.

    you have totally missed my point. people at the back pushing forward have no idea how packed it is at the front. in 2002, people were being crushed at the front when Kieran McGeeney was handed the cup.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Most people have accidents because of stupidity of one sort or another. If you can't see the possibility of an accident there than you are the stupid one.
    Repeat: If the GAA where serious about fan safety this would not be allowed to happen.

    should i wear gloves when making tea incase I burn my hand?

    there are big screens in croke park for them to see the presentation


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    #214
    jordainius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭jordainius


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    If the GAA where serious about fan safety this would not be allowed to happen.

    This is a very stupid statement. Are you actually saying they are not serious about fan safety???
    Most people have accidents because of stupidity of one sort or another. If you can't see the possibility of an accident there than you are the stupid one.
    The irony of this statement from someone who can't see the possibility of an accident happening by letting twenty odd thousand people flood onto a pitch at the same time.


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    #215
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Ronald Cold Planetarium wrote: »
    you have totally missed my point. people at the back pushing forward have no idea how packed it is at the front. in 2002, people were being crushed at the front when Kieran McGeeney was handed the cup.



    should i wear gloves when making tea incase I burn my hand?

    there are big screens in croke park for them to see the presentation
    jordainius wrote: »
    This is a very stupid statement. Are you actually saying they are not serious about fan safety???

    The irony of this statement from someone who can't see the possibility of an accident happening by letting twenty odd thousand people flood onto a pitch at the same time.

    In all previous cases a simple verbal intervention solved the problem of crushing. If they properly marshalled it...there would be no problem.
    The reason I posted the pic is that my point is; this has nothing to do with potential injury to fans. If it had, the possibility of somebody quite easily falling from that stand would have been dealt with. You are warned about the ease of falling over in using it normally, yet people are allowed to lean over it, two to three deep. Gimme a break here, it's an accident waiting to happen if I ever saw one.


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    #216
    8k2q1gfcz9s5d4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    we will agree to disagree


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    #217
    LeftBlank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭LeftBlank


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    two to three deep

    How can you tell that it's 2 to 3 deep from that picture?

    I think you are making things up to try and suit your argument.


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    #218
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    In all previous cases a simple verbal intervention solved the problem of crushing. If they properly marshalled it...there would be no problem.
    The reason I posted the pic is that my point is; this has nothing to do with potential injury to fans. If it had, the possibility of somebody quite easily falling from that stand would have been dealt with. You are warned about the ease of falling over in using it normally, yet people are allowed to lean over it, two to three deep. Gimme a break here, it's an accident waiting to happen if I ever saw one.

    you have to be trolling at this stage. you cant be serious with some of the ridiculous arguments you have made at this stage. trying to make out like there are people 3 deep at the front of the upper tier. have you ever even been to croke park? you do know it would not be any way possible to be 3 people deep at the front rails of the upper tier.


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    #219
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    LeftBlank wrote: »
    How can you tell that it's 2 to 3 deep from that picture?

    I think you are making things up to try and suit your argument.
    bruschi wrote: »
    you have to be trolling at this stage. you cant be serious with some of the ridiculous arguments you have made at this stage. trying to make out like there are people 3 deep at the front of the upper tier. have you ever even been to croke park? you do know it would not be any way possible to be 3 people deep at the front rails of the upper tier.

    Seriously, does it matter? All it takes is a bit of over exuberance and by all accounts of the H&S experts in this thread, Croker is full to the gills of drunken yahoos.


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    #220
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Seriously, does it matter? All it takes is a bit of over exuberance and by all accounts of the H&S experts in this thread, Croker is full to the gills of drunken yahoos.

    so you are just making stuff up then? no one is claiming to be H&S experts. if you had bothered to read the thread you would see that.


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    #221
    2moreMinutes
    Registered Users Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭2moreMinutes


    bruschi wrote: »
    you do know it would not be any way possible to be 3 people deep at the front rails of the upper tier.
    There were people at least 3 deep on the walkways at the front of the premium level down towards the Hill end all leaning over and straining to see the presentation "live" instead of looking at the big screen to their left. Not getting involved in your little debate but just thought I'd throw it out there.:)


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    #222
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    bruschi wrote: »
    so you are just making stuff up then?

    Have you looked at the picture? Would you consider that situation- people hanging over the edge, trying to see and celebrating-to be potentially dangerous? There is no 'maybe crushed', 'maybe trampled' here, if someone falls they will be seriously hurt as well as the people under.
    Is it dangerous or not?


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    #223
    sid waddell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,664 ✭✭✭sid waddell


    I would have thought it's pretty obvious how there would be more risk of somebody being killed falling out of the top deck of the stand than being killed in a pitch invasion.


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    #224
    twowheelsonly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭twowheelsonly


    kstand wrote: »
    Someone might get killed during a pitch invasion? What a load of sensationalist rubbish. Would you stand over that statement if it did happen?? Or would you scream blue murder about inadequate stewarding??

    Pitch invasions were very much part of All Ireland Final day and should be preserved - securely monitored if needs be and signs put up warning patrons that they enter the field at their own risk...... As mentioned earlier, you can't just fob off liability like that. Do you honestly believe that people would take any notice in any case?
    On top of that, nearly all the people at an AI are honest and genuine people who will not try to endanger the safety of anyone.... :eek: In normal day to day dealings maybe, but have you ever seen the behaviour of some (a lot) of these people when they put on their supporter hat??

    Even auld women wouldnt carry on the way some of ye have on this thread. True :rolleyes:
    Brain Stroking wrote: »
    That isnt correct either. There were presentations on the pitch in 2000 definitely and it was quickly knocked on the head
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I'm still saying it will be about sponsorship and that this will be moved onto the centre of the pitch in a few years, once this 'new' way of doing things is established.
    Conservatives are conservatives and there are more than a few in the ranks of the GAA and they have had their way on this.
    I would like to hear just how much the fans sitting with a solid row of stewards in front of them got to see. I also couldn't help seeing fans hanging perilously over the stand above the presentation (quick! ring H&S, down with that sort of thing :rolleyes:
    The GAA didn't work hard enough to come up with a way of doing this to satisfy all persuasions, they capitulated to the H&S brigade and have their sights set on a more sponsor friendly event at the expense of a goodly portion of the support base.

    I can see them going back to the centre of pitch presentations and IMO it would be a good thing - not because of sponsorship or copying others but because it will afford everyone a decent view and it makes for a better atmosphere at presentations. Some GAA 'hard core' supporters will be aghast at this however because of the notion of copying the Soccer presentations, just as the Rugby crowd did. They also copied the yellow cards etc but it didn't mean the end of the GAA as we know it. (Incidentally, Hockey was the first one with yellow cards and Soccer copied them!!)

    Sunday was a great success IMO and because of that, and the fact that the GAA now seem to have a handle on controlling the invasions, I can see it going to the centrefield presentations.


    Mark Ward of Meath touched on a very valid point in the players link. What if one of the players reacted to slaps/abuse during the course of a pitch invasion?? Probably be sued, banned and prosecuted because some scrote wanted to 'maintain tradition'..


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    #225
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    By the by, contrary to popular belief, there are still traditional pitch invasions in English soccer. Usually when a team gets automatically promoted, this prompts a massive pitch invasion from the home fans. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any calls to stop them (or if there have, they've been muted).

    I've made my peace with the fact that pitch invasions are probably a thing of the past. However, if this is the case, I seriously think the GAA have to move the presentation into the centre of the pitch. I was right in the centre of the lower Cusack and could barely see the presentation. I'd hate to think what it was like for those in the corner of the Hill or Canal End. Also, will they ever do away with those ridiculous streamers????

    I still think pitch "invasions" can be managed successfully. When I was in Australia a while back, at the end of an Aussie Rules game in Perth, fans were kept off the pitch for about 5 or 10 minutes while the players left the pitch. After that, anyone was allowed on. I definitely think a similar thing could be done in Croke Park.

    But obviously me thinking this makes me a "yahoo" or whatever.


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    #226
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    twowheelsonly wrote: »




    Mark Ward of Meath touched on a very valid point in the players link. What if one of the players reacted to slaps/abuse during the course of a pitch invasion?? Probably be sued, banned and prosecuted because some scrote wanted to 'maintain tradition'..

    All of that could have potentially happened and has happened over the years and could still happen. It can happen at any club and county game in the country.

    What do you do? You prepare and plan for it. In the same way as they drenched the ground with stewards and publicised what was expected of the fans and what they could expect in turn.
    The more draconian you are security wise the more likely you are to spark off something, that's a given. You can only coral people so much.
    The point here is that 'fan safety' and 'player safety' are not the reasons for this being done. If it was other actions would have been taken.
    I don't have any objections to the GAA raising more revenue through sponsorship my problem is that admin in Croke Park are now calling the shots in their conservative, corporate way. Traditions are steamrollered to raise the maximum buck. Expect more of this as Croker's revenues continue to fall.
    Labeling celebrating and passionate fans as scrotes and yahoos, in the knowledge that the conservative heartland of the GAA will follow suit (see this thread) is wrong, fess up and state the real reasons and put some thought into developing a way to do this that is safe and accomodating to all fans and to the traditions of the organisation.


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    #227
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    All of that could have potentially happened and has happened over the years and could still happen. It can happen at any club and county game in the country.

    What do you do? You prepare and plan for it. In the same way as they drenched the ground with stewards and publicised what was expected of the fans and what they could expect in turn.
    The more draconian you are security wise the more likely you are to spark off something, that's a given. You can only coral people so much.
    The point here is that 'fan safety' and 'player safety' are not the reasons for this being done. If it was other actions would have been taken.
    I don't have any objections to the GAA raising more revenue through sponsorship my problem is that admin in Croke Park are now calling the shots in their conservative, corporate way. Traditions are steamrollered to raise the maximum buck. Expect more of this as Croker's revenues continue to fall.
    Labeling celebrating and passionate fans as scrotes and yahoos, in the knowledge that the conservative heartland of the GAA will follow suit (see this thread) is wrong, fess up and state the real reasons and put some thought into developing a way to do this that is safe and accomodating to all fans and to the traditions of the organisation.

    The opinions of several players have been referenced in this thread yet you still claim its NOT about their safety or the safety of supporters? Someone mentioned the referee being assaulted after the Leinster final a few years ago - you think this cost is justified just to maintain a tradition?

    Whats your solution?
    Do away with sponsorship and charge €150 a ticket to fund the games, pay for professional security and insurance to keep pitch invasions and then also maintain funding for development across the GAA at all levels?

    All for a fcuking pitch invasion.


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    #228
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    The opinions of several players have been referenced in this thread yet you still claim its NOT about their safety or the safety of supporters? Someone mentioned the referee being assaulted after the Leinster final a few years ago - you think this cost is justified just to maintain a tradition?

    Whats your solution?
    Do away with sponsorship and charge €150 a ticket to fund the games, pay for professional security and insurance to keep pitch invasions and then also maintain funding for development across the GAA at all levels?

    All for a fcuking pitch invasion.

    Try reading the posts without the mist in front of your eyes.


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    #229
    8k2q1gfcz9s5d4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Try reading the posts without the mist in front of your eyes.

    090826huggett.jpg

    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    By the by, contrary to popular belief, there are still traditional pitch invasions in English soccer. Usually when a team gets automatically promoted, this prompts a massive pitch invasion from the home fans. As far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any calls to stop them (or if there have, they've been muted).

    there are always investigations after things like this happens, and usualy the club is fined


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    #230
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Ronald Cold Planetarium wrote: »
    090826huggett.jpg


    Whatever you think yourself! :rolleyes:

    When I mention that I have no problems per se with the GAA raising extra revenue via sponsorship in the post he/she quotes and then get berated for wanting to do away with sponsorship, there is either an intellectual difficulty or a mist at play. ;)


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    #231
    intellectual dosser
    Registered Users Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭intellectual dosser


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Whatever you think yourself! :rolleyes:

    When I mention that I have no problems per se with the GAA raising extra revenue via sponsorship in the post he/she quotes and then get berated for wanting to do away with sponsorship, there is either an intellectual difficulty or a mist at play. ;)

    I have read your posts without the mist, although its difficult as you go on and on and on about the same thing again and again.

    Call it berating, fine, but I asked you for your solution - you haven't given one? To say that the prevention of pitch invasions is entirely to do with sponsorship is just nonsense.


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    #232
    8k2q1gfcz9s5d4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    right, im gonzo from this thread. can we agree to disagree?


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    #233
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    intellectual dosser wrote: »
    I have read your posts without the mist, although its difficult as you go on and on and on about the same thing again and again.

    Call it berating, fine, but I asked you for your solution - you haven't given one? To say that the prevention of pitch invasions is entirely to do with sponsorship is just nonsense.

    Answer the questions raised in the posts then.
    If it was about fan and player safety, why just the final? Where is the security and safety concern at other games where any one of the incidents the 'what if' brigade are referring to could easily happen and has?
    Where is the concern for safety when fans; have to (to be able to see) and are allowed to lean over the stand above the presentation?

    Answer those questions and then tell me it is about the player and the fan's. It's patently not, it's about what the GAA wants to do with the presentation and that where dialogue is needed.
    There are plenty of alternatives presented by others on here that are as workable as the 'new' way of doing it and could preserve the uniqueness of All Ireland Final day, instead of ending up with a bland corporate, same as everybody else, event.


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    #234
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    Ronald Cold Planetarium wrote: »
    there are always investigations after things like this happens, and usualy the club is fined

    Can you show proof that end of season pitch invasions (like this one at St. Mary's just a few months back) always result in investigations and fines?


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    #235
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 18,281 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    If it was about fan and player safety, why just the final?

    Gee, I don't know, why do people celebrate more after a final than after other games? I can't figure that one out...


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    #236
    Hammer Archer
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hammer Archer


    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Gee, I don't know, why do people celebrate more after a final than after other games? I can't figure that one out...

    But why just the senior finals? There was no attempt to discourage the pitch invasion in Thurles at the U21 hurling final a few weeks back.


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    #237
    jordainius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭jordainius


    It really doesn't matter what self-entitled fans want. I haven't seen/heard anything from the players objecting to keeping the fans off the pitch. The pitch is for the players, the stands and terraces are for the fans.

    Tradition is a very weak argument, in fact its a non argument, tradition is a convenient word to hide behind. If we stuck with tradition, nothing would ever change. The GAA has moved forward in so many ways in the last twenty years; Croke Park was redeveloped into a world class stadium, the FAI and the IRFU were allowed use the stadium while Lansdowne Road was being rebuilt, the introduction of the backdoor was a massive break with tradition, while not everyone agrees with the current format, nobody can deny that it is much fairer on the players to no longer be in a position where their year is over after just one game. Gone are the days of there only being 7 or 8 live games a year on tv. And sure if we're going to be traditional why don't we go back to the days when hurleys were shaped more like ice hockey sticks.

    I guess some people aren't willing to appreciate how lucky they are to get a ticket for All-Ireland final day in the first place. The reason you're there is to watch the match and suppoort your team. Sure; pitch invasions were great, I've taken part in a few when I was younger but they were allowed back then. They are not allowed now; the sooner that people cop on and respect that the better. Thankfully; the last few years have proven that the vast majority of fans do respect that, as pitch invasions haven't happened. If the will to do it really was there it would still happen every time, a line of stewards surrounding the perimiter of the pitch would be totally insufficient to stop a crowd from getting on to the pitch if they really wanted to in enough numbers. Luckily, those who have attended Croke Park on All-Ireland final day in recent years have respected the wishes of the GAA and the players.

    As for some of the ridiculous conspiracy theory type nonsense about the motives of the GAA, the suggestion that they didn't think it through, that they don't care about the safety of the fans, that stuff is laughable. Some prople just don't want to accept the valid reasons for the GAA having to bring an end to this outdated practise.


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    #238
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    Can you show proof that end of season pitch invasions (like this one at St. Mary's just a few months back) always result in investigations and fines?

    You won't get an answer HA, it's called 'can't see the trees for the forest'.
    bucketybuck wrote: »
    Gee, I don't know, why do people celebrate more after a final than after other games? I can't figure that one out...

    So there is no need to stop pitch incursions at other times? There is no threat to players, refs and fans at other games? Is that what you are saying here? :rolleyes: You kinda proved my point for me there.


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    #239
    jordainius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭jordainius


    Hammer Archer wrote: »
    But why just the senior finals? There was no attempt to discourage the pitch invasion in Thurles at the U21 hurling final a few weeks back.

    I suppose that's purely down to numbers, a full Croke Park has a lot more potential for an acident than a half/third full Semple Stadium!


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    #240
    jordainius
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭jordainius


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    So there is no need to stop pitch incursions at other times? There is no threat to players, refs and fans at other games? Is that what you are saying here? :rolleyes: You kinda proved my point for me there.

    So, you're saying a pitch invasion by up to half the euphoric and overjoyed fans in a full to 84000 capacity stadium is a possibility at say an all ireland qualifier or an Ulster semi final or a Leinster quarter final?


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    #241
    celt262
    Registered Users Posts: 3,416 ✭✭✭celt262


    Without trawling through the last few pages are people still in favour of a stampede after all-ireland finals?


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