The Defender thread

Stonewolf wrote: »

Thanks for the help a few (like 10 :eek: ) pages back, in the end I had a little bit of good fortune and picked myself up a nice '06 Disco SE.

Stick up some pics either here or on the disco thread.
Is that the 2.7 engine ? if so yonks ahead of the 300 tdi you had linked to eariler.
ps ahead not always mean better.;)

I have seen defenders advertised in the UK that say they can be taxed as "agricultural" and run on agricultural diesel within a certain distance from the farm. I have heard before that defenders with PTOs can be classified as agricultural, does anybody know if similar rules apply in Ireland. Is it legal to run a defender on green diesel within a certain distance from your farm?

O.A.P wrote: »

I wish.
I have not really looked into it but the men that advice me have not much to learn, I have not asked them (but I have had the same idea ) and fear been laughted out of the place if I asked that question.

Think about it tractors cannot reach 95 - 100 MPH nor can my loveable rust heap but 90 is possible if I do not want the use of my ears for a few days afterwards.

I think to make it classified as an agricultural machine I need alot more than a PTO shaft.
I hope Im wrong though and some of the lads on here can answer your question better.

Yes. I have tried to find out if there is any truth in it. Some people that should know say, "yes definitely" other people who should know say "that's an urban myth" . On the UK forums there seems to be a lot of mixed opinions on what the rules actually are.

just after finding out that the truck has no power steering, having never driven something without pas what are the major differences to a modern vehicle?

I'm looking at a Landrover 90 2.5 turbo on Donedeal, 1988 reg. Are these engines really as bad as their reputation and what sort of money are nineties in relatively good nick making?

ive arranged to meet a guy to look at a 2.5 liter petrol engine 1988 110 (this), bit concerned that theres no logbook with it but other than that im all set to put the money down, what would yer educated opinion be on it from just looking at his pictures details etc. anything in particular i should look out for when i look at it?

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

ive arranged to meet a guy to look at a 2.5 liter petrol engine 1988 110 (this), bit concerned that theres no logbook with it but other than that im all set to put the money down, what would yer educated opinion be on it from just looking at his pictures details etc. anything in particular i should look out for when i look at it?

Wouldn't personally buy a petrol engine Defender, but other than that, the body looks good. Things to look out for are the usual things you look out for on a Defender - chassis rust, rear crossmember rust, check the bottoms of the door for rot on the frames, and check for bubbling on the aluminium skin on the doors which is a pointer to rust on the steel frame under the skin. Rear doesn't have a tyre carrier, just the bog standard bolt-the-tyre-to-the-door, which cracks and weakens the rear door subframe, so check for that. Front footwells are prone to rust - lift the mats and check. Clutch has been replaced which is good, but take a look underneath at the transfer box and gearbox for oil leaks. It looks like it's been recently resprayed, so keep an eye out for what it may be potentially covering up. If the previous owner has done his own wiring when adding new lighting, etc, check that it's done right, and that everything works.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

any reasons in particular you wouldnt go for a petrol model other than fuel efficency? tbh it does look very tidy from the pictures, he has 60 pics of it as a project as well which to me says he put a bit of effort into it, fingers crossed its as nice as it looks

Well, other than wanting shares in BP to run a petrol engined Defender, there are quite a few other advantages over having a diesel engine. For me, I do a lot of long distance, and a lot of off-roading (as my truck might indicate), and with a diesel engine, you get far more torque, and you get an engine thats also far more forgiving of the dirty fuel which you are pretty much guaranteed in more off the beaten track places. Engine is IMHO far simpler - once you get power to the cutoff solenoid, she should just work. In my engine of choice, the 300tdi, no electronic management systems to worry about, though that could be said of older petrol engines too. Met a couple in Pakistan with the latest and greatest Defender at the time (spanking new TD5), they got the ECU wet in a foot of water, car died and it was a 5000 euro repair that took four weeks. Also, diesel is pretty much the standard for the Defender, worst case scenario if the engine blows, you can drop in a new engine straight from a wreck and you're good to go for another 200,000 km. Replacement petrol engines are harder to come by, and if you want to replace it with a diesel powerplant, I'm almost certain you have to cut out the old engine mounts and weld in new ones, plus, tinker with the fuel system a bit.

People will disagree of course. But just my $0.02 based on a few continents worth of driving, and working on these things in absolutely all conditions.

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

i was thinking i could always go about putting a diesel into it at a later point if i wanted to, but is the engine bay really all that different for the petrol engine vs diesel? are landies a nice vehicle to start tinkering with? id love to learn the ins and outs of how they work just never had an opportunity to mess around with a car/trucks workings before

Well, Defenders are basically the mecchano set of the automotive world, so in that sense they are great to learn on, and prior to the TD5 (diesel) or 2.8i (petrol), the engines are as basic as you can get. Fuel and air in one side, exhaust out the other, and the engine just works. However, it also sounds like you're just learning to turn a spanner, so I wouldn't line up an engine swop as your first job

To answer your question, the engine bay of the petrol and diesel versions are both identical - it's how the engine bolts up to the chassis rails that is different. All engines sit on rubber mounts to dampen vibrations, called, appropriately enough, engine mounts, and these mounts differ from engine to engine, and therefore, to put a diesel engine into a petrol defender, you have to lift out the petrol engine, grind off the chassis mounts, weld on the new mounts for the diesel engine, and drop the diesel engine back in. You'll also need the diesel engine's bell housing - the casting that connects the engine to the gearbox, and anything behind that on the driveline should be fine. You'd been a diesel fuel filter setup too.

Haven't done it myself, but from what I gather, dropping in a 200tdi engine is a lot more straightforward than a 300tdi, but I'm not sure why. Can't see how it would be any differnt TBH. I can only assume that other stuff under the bonnet might have to be moved around to accommodate the 300tdi, that doesn't have to be moved to take the smaller 200tdi.

Paperwork-wise, it's been quite a while since I've had to deal with the roadworthiness people back in Ireland, but here in Australia the new welds need to be signed off on by an engineer, so it could well be the same there too.

The GOOD side of all this is that the discovery uses the exact same engine as the defender (and a lot of the driveline parts are common too), and perfectly good engines in rusted out discovery bodies pop up on eBay quite often for ridiculously low sums. In fact, if you ever wanted an automatic Defender, a Discovery transplant is the ONLY way to do it.

I'd like to be clear on one thing, that may not have been obvious before. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the petrol Landy's - many people have had them for years and have been quite happy. It's just that for me, they didn't suit *my* needs, for the reasons listed above. At the end of the day, something like 70% plus of all land rovers built since 1947 are still running, so that says a lot. And I'm not trying to scare you off the engine transplant idea - more highlighting that, while not difficult, it's not a case of plugging one engine out and another one in Good luck with whatever you choose - it's always good to see another landy owner on the roads.

Sounds like you have your heart set on it Enjoy it, and welcome to long hours deciding what you can bolt to it next.

Actually, considering that there are 72 pages of replies to this thread, there could be room for a Defender meet-up sometime in the future...

Actually, on a defender the engine mountings for some diesel and petrol engines can be the same!

The engine block, the big bit that everything bolts to, is similar between the 2286 petrol, 2286 diesel, 2.5 petrol. 2.5 diesel, 2.5 turbo diesel and the tdi200.

The gearbox mounts are also similar. I was able to retrofit a 1992 discovery tdi200 engine into a 1981 petrol leaf sprung series 3, without major chassis surgery.

Check out Richard Glencoyne and his website for a wealth of info on the engines fitted to LRs over the years.

wildefalcon wrote: »

Actually, on a defender the engine mountings for some diesel and petrol engines can be the same!

Thanks for that link. I checked this out myself yesterday to see why a 200tdi engine was such a more straightforward transplant than a 300tdi. Any issues with the air intake being on the opposite side, I wonder?

If I had the money tomorrow, my ideal transplant would be the Isuzu 3.9-litre 4BD1 diesel engine, as used by the Australian Army. I've yet to see a match for it - engine is strong enough to chew through the 5-speed gearbox if you're not careful. Engine isn't even hard to get, but the bellhousings were custom made for the army, and are as rare as hens teeth. Though I know a guy who has made a kit that allows you to drop in the Isuzu engine and stronger matching gearbox, and mate it all up to the original transfer box.

101sean wrote:

I go away for 5 mins and someone starts posting longer replies than me!

Sorry mate, didn't mean to hijack your thread, just figured that if I knew a thing or two, I'd pass it on.

200 or 300 tdi is straightforward conversion but you'll need to change the transfer box as well or it'll be screaming it's nuts off at 60! Petrols and NA diesels have a lower ratio 1.67 box.

True, I'd forgotten that. Well if you're going to go down *that* road, you may as well replace the Defender transfer box with one from a Discovery and raise your gearing by 15% (Defender gear ratio - 1.4:1, Discovery gear ratio - 1.2:1) and get yourself some better road speeds. Did this in my 110 and it makes a noticeable difference on the highways.

went and bought that white 1988 110 today delighted with it, have to replace the bushings though as i had a little bit of fishtailing at high speeds, a couple of other small things but all in all its very tidy

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

went and bought that white 1988 110 today delighted with it, have to replace the bushings though as i had a little bit of fishtailing at high speeds, a couple of other small things but all in all its very tidy

Welcome to the club. Well ware and good luck with it.

If this is an Irish vehicle you can apply for a new log book but it will be sent to the last registered owner not to you.