Abortion

Pace2008 · 07-09-2012 10:48PM

tomtherobot wrote: »

Even though I can't understand it, I can also see that a lot of these people also see an unborn child as somehow not fully a human life. As such i don't think they are callously disregarding a life but ignorant of it's existence.

Ignorant or callous, what a flattering dichotomoy. I wonder, why is it that you view a zygote as a full human life when it comes to the issue of termination, but you and every other pro-lifer on the planet don't give a hoot about the tens of millions of zygotes - human beings in your eyes - which are flushed out of the womb after they fail to implant?

gozunda · 07-09-2012 10:59PM

cynder wrote: »

.....

Why would someone need counseling if it's something they really wanted?

If there not 100% sure they shouldn'tgo ahead and do it, they should not be encouraged to do it.

Maybe it would because the type of attitudes that have appeared on this thread - calling people who make a choice "killers" etc and then saying they have no smpathy to anyone who finds themselves in this situation. There are many the reasons that may have contributed to those who select termination as an option and are forced to go abroad for it., whether this was because of rape, abuse, incest, violent partner or danger to the health of the mother. Just as there are many reasons why someone may find themselves in need of counselling after an abortion.
Its not necessarily a clear black and white descision but based on a balance of circumstances and personal decision.

gozunda · 07-09-2012 11:18PM

tomtherobot wrote: »

....

Relevance? Surely we value all human life?

Do we? Not to sure about that tbh. But do explain your definition of "we" and what you understand by the term "Life" with relevance to these issues.

tomtherobot wrote: »

Please explain the difference in what i said in these quotes, without just calling me ignorant? I don't see a lack this lack of tact, this is clearly not my belief, clearly not how i would console somebody in this awful situation.

As pointed out thats not what you said.....See Below

Originally Posted by tomtherobot

I think it's a telling acid test for the pro-abortionists to ask them would they tell the grieving parent's of a child lost through miscarriage that it wasn't really a child, just a lifeless bunch of cells.

tomtherobot wrote: »

Please explain surely pro-choice is a much greater disambiguation (if you wanna compare disambiguations ). I up for using another term is you want to offer a suitable alternative?

I would be grateful if you would come up with your own argument and not simply rephrase what I in fact said. No I do not agree. Pro-abortion is not a an accepted expression - you are using it as a term of abuse thrown at those who call themselves "Pro-Choice". I will stick with that which is an accepted term. I can think of some non accepted terms for those that choose to ignore the complexities of these issues but refrain myself.

tomtherobot wrote: »

I don't understand your opinion, are you saying that because medical science distinguishes between different stage of pregnancy, some or all, are not 'alive'?

Yes. It is apparent that your concept of "Alive" and gestation of a human through full development in the womb is somewhat contrary to others accepted opinion. maybe you will be good enough to give us a definition of what you believe "alive" is in terms of Zygote through to Foetal development and at what point this "alive" actually happens in your opinion

cynder · 08-09-2012 06:57AM

gozunda wrote: »

cynder wrote: »

.....

Why would someone need counseling if it's something they really wanted?

If there not 100% sure they shouldn'tgo ahead and do it, they should not be encouraged to do it.

Maybe it would because the type of attitudes that have appeared on this thread - calling people who make a choice "killers" etc and then saying they have no smpathy to anyone who finds themselves in this situation. There are many the reasons that may have contributed to those who select termination as an option and are forced to go abroad for it., whether this was because of rape, abuse, incest, violent partner or danger to the health of the mother. Just as there are many reasons why someone may find themselves in need of counselling after an abortion.
Its not necessarily a clear black and white descision but based on a balance of circumstances and personal decision.

By that then murderers should be given counseling in prison for the heinous Crimes they committed.

If a woman is raped she would need counseling anyway, as would a woman who escapes a violent relationship, as would someone who wants kid, but can't get pregnant because it could kill her. These women should be in counseling, You picked the 3 that I could understand however you didn't pick the woman who uses it as a contraceptive . Funny that!

nozzferrahhtoo · 08-09-2012 07:23AM

cynder wrote: »

Baby is a person to the mother,she can feel it kick, hiccup, move around

That depends entirely on the stage of development. Most miscarriages occur before 3 months and you can feel very little of these things at that stage. I am talking about how the mother can become emotionally invested in the IDEA of a baby, her new future and much more even at this early stage.

tomtherobot wrote: »

So losing a baby is the same as losing a car?

If you say so. I sure did not however so lets not put words in my mouth shall we.

cynder · 08-09-2012 07:41AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

cynder wrote: »

Baby is a person to the mother,she can feel it kick, hiccup, move around

That depends entirely on the stage of development. Most miscarriages occur before 3 months and you can feel very little of these things at that stage. I am talking about how the mother can become emotionally invested in the IDEA of a baby, her new future and much more even at this early stage.

tomtherobot wrote: »

So losing a baby is the same as losing a car?

If you say so. I sure did not however so lets not put words in my mouth shall we.

I was taken into hospital at 8 weeks pregnant, I was very sick and was hospitalized for 7 days, I saw the scan she was 8 week's, a little bean with little stubs for arms and legs moving very quickly. I saw her, she was very much real, very much alive.

That little bean turns 13 next week...

EmzBoBo · 08-09-2012 08:24AM

Irishchick wrote: »

Abortion is never medically necessary and to say it is is just a down right lie!

No medical illness is cured by abortion.

If a pregnant woman becomes pregnant the doctor will treat the mother and do his/her best to save the unborn child. Sometimes they are successful, and sometimes they are not. Then procedure's such as a D&C need to performed to remove the dead unborn child.

This is widely performed in this country and is not an abortion.

Read this article, and don't just rule it out because its on a youth defence website. Its a very interesting article.

http://www.youthdefence.ie/latest-news/leading-irish-cancer-specialist-abortion-not-necessary-to-save-mom/

So that's cancer ruled out.

As for pre-eclampsia and ectopic pregnancies again the doctors will do all they can to save both but will intervene if the mother's life is in danger.

Again this is a medical treatment, not an abortion. Pro choice groups dont mention this though as it destroys their whole campaign as they know alot of women don't realise these facts.

Professor emeritus (amoug other OB GYN's) have been quoted saying that there is no risk to the mother that can be avoided by abortion.

I'm not going to get into an arguement with you. However, I just want to point out a few things:

1: I will be ruling that YD article (or indeed any article by them and/or their sister companies - Life Institute etc.) as invalid arguements, for the pure and simple reason that anytime I've ever actually tried to ask questions to them/their supporters, all I've ever gotten is a mouthfull of abuse, accompanied by the usual "Abortion is murder" screeches (and yes, I do mean screeches).

2: Their is absolutely NO LINK on their page to any PEER REVIEWED MEDICAL JOURNALS (or, indeed, any other unbiased information), to prove their point, and they refuse point blank to provide any links to medical journals etc, that would supposidly prove their point, they'll only ever link back to their own page, and lets face it, their page is very biased in favour of their own arguement.

3:

Abortion campaigners, she (Rebecca Roughneen of Youth Defence) said, are brazenly engaging in "dishonest scaremongering" with the present media blitz. "They're repeating the same lie over and over again in an attempt to make the public believe

.... bit rich comming from them tbh, pot/kettle much?

4:

Ireland, with its pro-life protections intact, enjoys one of the world's lowest rates of maternal mortality in the world.

...Now that, IS, in fact, a "downright lie" - in 2012, Rep.of Ireland was listed as the 15th (out of 22 countries in Europe) safest place to have a child in, and countries listed above us actually have legalised abortion! (Can't find the document at the moment, will post it later if I get a chance).... hardly the "safest place in the world to have a child" that YD like to harp on about...

Be pro-life if you want to be, I'm pro-choice, but have one or two friends that are pro-life, and we can all (politely) just agree to disagree on this particular issue.

Colmustard · 08-09-2012 08:27AM

Jernal wrote: »

Partly right.
Not all the embryos are inconsistent though. Some are malformed alright but the womb will tend to reject a significantly greater number of viable embryos than is needed simply to minimise its chances of carrying a malformed one to term.The whole thing is mind boggling inefficient. If one is to take the extreme pro-life view that life begins at conception then you're talking 220+ million deaths per year.
(Keep in mind that cancer is <10 million. )

HUH

Deaths of what??

But 220 million a year, that is nearly a billion every 4 years and as population increases that figure will also increase. So abortion is saving the planet by culling the population.

When you think about it, as a global specie, overpopulation is killing this planet and is our greatest threat to the survival of humanity, global warming is not just sun creams a heatwave and a drought. Global warming is the greatest threat to all life this planet has ever experienced, the Permian–Triassic extinction event was caused by global warming and it wiped out 90% of all life, which was the greatest extinction event that has ever happened on Earth.

So that would make abortion the moral and responsible choice. There should be more, a lot more, or more birth control, which prevents a billion or so human lives a year.

lugha · 08-09-2012 08:33AM

Jernal wrote: »

Religious belief : all other religions are absolutely wrong but many believers, thankfully, would still support freedom for all those religions to believe whatever they wish.

Religious belief is a private matter and should have nothing to do with how we arrange our civic laws. If that is the best example you can come up with, it rather reinforces my point.

tomtherobot wrote: »

I'm sorry it does not amount to the same thing. I'm not going to forcefully prevent her from having an abortion because i think it would be futile (she would have one anyway) and would just add to her suffering. Again, i wouldn't try to forcefully prevent somebody from chosing suicide as i believe it would be futile and just add to their suffering.

Would you forcefully prevent a mother from killing a born child? I think you would (you certainly should!). And for me this demonstrates that you see a foetus as less than a born child. You have repeatedly made the argument that the need for post-abortion counselling demonstrates that a foetus is more than a bunch of cells. Thus you accuse others of understating the worth of a foetus but you overstate it.

nozzferrahhtoo · 08-09-2012 08:41AM

cynder wrote: »

I was taken into hospital at 8 weeks pregnant, I was very sick and was hospitalized for 7 days, I saw the scan she was 8 week's, a little bean with little stubs for arms and legs moving very quickly. I saw her, she was very much real, very much alive. That little bean turns 13 next week...

Thats nice for you but it has nothing to do with anything I have been saying.

Sponge25 · 08-09-2012 12:30PM

charlietheminxx wrote: »

You seem to have very drastic views and make statements calling for exectution and calling people evil. I'm going to agree that you are either much younger than you say (as already suggested) or a troll.

OMG, why would I say i'm twenty-five if I wasn't! I have a friend who was raped by her neighbour and it ruined her life untill she was in her twenties so I have strong views about it. They should die for it!

Sponge25 · 08-09-2012 12:40PM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Why should there be any distinction? Rape is rape, it is no greater or lesser a crime if its against a woman you dont know or your wife.

Ofcourse there's no distinction but I can't help feeling a girl who doesn't sleep around is raped by a stranger is far worse than a junkie who sleeps with 10 men a day for money is raped, it's just one more man for the junkie but the girl who doesn't sleep around and a good girl would be ruined! I hope this doesn't sound bad I'm not trying to make a distinction just trying too get a point accross. Do ya know what I mean? Like rape is rape and both rapists should get the same sentence!

Sponge25 · 08-09-2012 12:44PM

Stark wrote: »

Aren't you the lucky one? I've made it through 30 years of life without any debilitation diseases. Sure not getting sick is not that hard.

Nope she's not the lucky one, she's the responsible one! Like me and my gf, we have sex all the time but she never gets pregnant cause we're not ready for a baby but by some chance she did, we'd be happy and wouldn't even CONSIDER having an abortion!

Sponge25 · 08-09-2012 12:47PM

LyndaMcL wrote: »

TO be honest, the majority of the pro-life posts I see here (not all of them), are spouting the same rubbish that I see pushed into my face, along with pictures of a foetus, that I see in town all the time. As such, I have nothing further to add to this thread, except this -

I have a high chance of never carrying a child to full term, or even conceiving (about 20% chance that I will). If I were to somehow have an unexpected pregnancy, I would abort with no qualms. If I use two forms of contraception (which I do), and am also 80% likely to never conceive, I have done all I can in using two forms of contraception to prevent getting pregnant (bar giving up sex, but I'm not doing that ). If I get pregnant at any point in the future, I will abort and have no qualms about doing so.

Would you not like feel a little guilty that you're robbing a baby of his/her probably long and successful life? Also, this question isn't directed at you in paticular but to the threat! Is having a late-term abortion acceptable too abortion supporters here? If the baby can survive outside the womb (albeit with medical support or intervention) would it be acceptable to terminate the baby which by that stage I don't think anyone can argue they wouldn't be killing the baby!

RDM_83 again · 08-09-2012 12:51PM

LyndaMcL wrote: »

Re-read it, then. Majority does not = all.

Can this also be acceptable for posts on gender issues etc too please

EmzBoBo wrote: »

2: Their is absolutely NO LINK on their page to any PEER REVIEWED MEDICAL JOURNALS (or, indeed, any other unbiased information), to prove their point, and they refuse point blank to provide any links to medical journals etc, that would supposidly prove their point, they'll only ever link back to their own page, and lets face it, their page is very biased in favour of their own arguement.

4: ...Now that, IS, in fact, a "downright lie" - in 2012, Rep.of Ireland was listed as the 15th (out of 22 countries in Europe) safest place to have a child in, and countries listed above us actually have legalised abortion! (Can't find the document at the moment, will post it later if I get a chance).... hardly the "safest place in the world to have a child" that YD like to harp on about...

Ok took a quick look at that article, and not defending YD at all here and I know they come out with some dubious statements to further agenda. But
they do link to the interview with the Dr in question (its an irish independent article ) and they do link to the World Healths Organizations data to support their argument about Ireland being a very safe place to give birth (note in the argument they say the world not Europe!)

And looking at data from the world bank,
Maternal mortality ratio (modeled estimate, per 100,000 live births)

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.STA.MMRT

Ireland is the 13-16th safest country in the world (there's a few non-EU countries ahead of it) to have a child,ahead of a lot of countries that would be generally considered to have a superior health service, France, Denmark,Norway, Switzerland the UK etc.
If you could dig out your article that would be great.

Overall though I can' see how you can refute the statement that Ireland does enjoy some of the lowest maternal mortality rates in the world and looking at the figures I linked to average for the EU.

up for anything · 08-09-2012 12:53PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

Ofcourse there's no distinction but I can't help feeling a girl who doesn't sleep around is raped by a stranger is far worse than a junkie who sleeps with 10 men a day for money is raped, it's just one more man for the junkie but the girl who doesn't sleep around and a good girl would be ruined! I hope this doesn't sound bad I'm not trying to make a distinction just trying too get a point accross. Do ya know what I mean? Like rape is rape and both rapists should get the same sentence!

Keep your point! "just one more man..." :rolleyes::mad:

Sponge25 wrote: »

Would you not like feel a little guilty that you're robbing a baby of his/her probably long and successful life? Also, this question isn't directed at you in paticular but to the threat! Is having a late-term abortion acceptable too abortion supporters here? If the baby can survive outside the womb (albeit with medical support or intervention) would it be acceptable to terminate the baby which by that stage I don't think anyone can argue they wouldn't be killing the baby!

How do you propose to get it out of the womb to keep it alive with medical support or intervention if the woman isn't willing?

eviltwin · 08-09-2012 12:58PM

cynder wrote: »

If your 100% happy with the choice you made, why would you need counseling.

Sure your happy with the decision, and happy with the result.

A friend of mine recently broke up with her boyfriend. He treated her like dirt and she knew he would never change so she ended it. She knows she deserves better and that her life will be a much calmer place without him. She is glad he is gone but she is still heartbroken, she spent about a month crying and coming to terms with the end of it. It doesn't mean she wants him back or regrets ending the relationship.

Its the same with an abortion. You can know deep down it was the right thing to do but you can feel angry at the situation, angry at the way you were forced to travel, hurt by people's reactions, you can wonder if it was in fact the right thing, you might be dealing with some kind of physical trauma if it was a painful procedure etc etc

Every single woman or man who goes for counselling will have their own individual issues.

Anything life changing can have a mental impact and the sensible thing to do is address it before it takes over your life.

Esoteric_ · 08-09-2012 01:03PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

Would you not like feel a little guilty that you're robbing a baby of his/her probably long and successful life? Also, this question isn't directed at you in paticular but to the threat! Is having a late-term abortion acceptable too abortion supporters here? If the baby can survive outside the womb (albeit with medical support or intervention) would it be acceptable to terminate the baby which by that stage I don't think anyone can argue they wouldn't be killing the baby!

No, I wouldn't feel guilty because I have absolutely no certainty about what the potential child's life would be like.

As far as late term abortions go - If the foetus/child could survive potentially (with medical intervention), I would not have an abortion that late. I'm of the belief that once the heartbeat starts (in or around 16 weeks AFAIK), the foetus is alive.

Sponge25 · 08-09-2012 01:03PM

up for anything wrote: »

Keep your point! "just one more man..." :rolleyes::mad:

How do you propose to get it out of the womb to keep it alive with medical support or intervention if the woman isn't willing?

That's not the point, if the baby is viable outside the mother it's alive and "terminating" it would be ending it's life! Sounds a little like murder huh!?

Sponge25 · 08-09-2012 01:05PM

eviltwin wrote: »

A friend of mine recently broke up with her boyfriend. He treated her like dirt and she knew he would never change so she ended it. She knows she deserves better and that her life will be a much calmer place without him. She is glad he is gone but she is still heartbroken, she spent about a month crying and coming to terms with the end of it. It doesn't mean she wants him back or regrets ending the relationship.

Its the same with an abortion. You can know deep down it was the right thing to do but you can feel angry at the situation, angry at the way you were forced to travel, hurt by people's reactions, you can wonder if it was in fact the right thing, you might be dealing with some kind of physical trauma if it was a painful procedure etc etc

Every single woman or man who goes for counselling will have their own individual issues.

Anything life changing can have a mental impact and the sensible thing to do is address it before it takes over your life.

My GF used to be treated like dirt by her ex, he always cheated on her, never slept with her, wouldn't snuggle up with her etc. and like basically abused her and treated her like **** so she was heart broken and didn't love him anymore and I was helping her and now we're together for ages:)

Sponge25 · 08-09-2012 01:08PM

LyndaMcL wrote: »

No, I wouldn't feel guilty because I have absolutely no certainty about what the potential child's life would be like.

As far as late term abortions go - If the foetus/child could survive potentially (with medical intervention), I would not have an abortion that late. I'm of the belief that once the heartbeat starts (in or around 16 weeks AFAIK), the foetus is alive.

No one has any certainty about anything in life but there's a good chance the baby would want to live!

That's almost certain!

If people want to have abortions at the end of the day they can but it's something I feel strong about unless the girl or baby was gonna die or be VERY sick or the girl got raped in which case the rapists 'forced' an abortion upon her and it's entirely the rapist who's to blame. When it comes to the X case, the poor little girl was entirely entitled to have an abortion IMO! Although I would've REALLY respected her if she carried it and adopted it away but I still have great respect for her having the courage to live on!

up for anything · 08-09-2012 01:13PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

That's not the point, if the baby is viable outside the mother it's alive and "terminating" it would be ending it's life! Sounds a little like murder huh!?

That is the point, it is not alive or viable until it's outside the mother. How would you propose to wrest this potential life from her without her will or consent?

As for sounding a little like murder - given your judgmental opinions on the subject of rape I wouldn't give two figs for what you consider to be murder. :rolleyes:

Sponge25 · 08-09-2012 01:23PM

up for anything wrote: »

That is the point, it is not alive or viable until it's outside the mother. How would you propose to wrest this potential life from her without her will or consent?

As for sounding a little like murder - given your judgmental opinions on the subject of rape I wouldn't give two figs for what you consider to be murder. :rolleyes:

Anyone who isn't judgmental about rape ought to be locked up! Isn't it something everyone hates?

All doctors agree at some point the baby is viable outside the womb, I thought this was common sense? Some babies are born as early as 6.5months etc! Probably younger for all I know and survive!

Edit: the earliest baby born was 21 weeks and five days and looked remarkably healthy! So no one can argue that the baby isn't viable outside the womb unless it's born! That's not the point at all, the point is the baby is VIABLE and ALIVE but inside the womb, terminate the baby and you kill a living baby! Just cause it's not outside the womb doesn't mean it's not alive!

Edit: Also people who are having abortions DID consent to being pregnant by having sex!

cynder · 08-09-2012 01:35PM

eviltwin wrote: »

cynder wrote: »

If your 100% happy with the choice you made, why would you need counseling.

Sure your happy with the decision, and happy with the result.

A friend of mine recently broke up with her boyfriend. He treated her like dirt and she knew he would never change so she ended it. She knows she deserves better and that her life will be a much calmer place without him. She is glad he is gone but she is still heartbroken, she spent about a month crying and coming to terms with the end of it. It doesn't mean she wants him back or regrets ending the relationship.

Its the same with an abortion. You can know deep down it was the right thing to do but you can feel angry at the situation, angry at the way you were forced to travel, hurt by people's reactions, you can wonder if it was in fact the right thing, you might be dealing with some kind of physical trauma if it was a painful procedure etc etc

Every single woman or man who goes for counselling will have their own individual issues.

Anything life changing can have a mental impact and the sensible thing to do is address it before it takes over your life.

Angry that they had to travel, do you want home abortions now? Of course they had to travel. They need counseling because they have to travel. I wonder if they need counseling if they ever go abroad on holiday or to work.

Most don't openly admit to it do they dont get abuse or hateful comments, or reactions that might hurt them.

Getting tonsils out doesn't require counseling. As people have said it's only a bunch of cells, well so are tonsils. Same could be Said for a smear test.

Not to many need counseling after a break up. A small few do. Did your friend need in depth counseling? I don't know 1 single person who needed counseling because they broke up with someone. Yes it does happen but again only a small few and the shorter they are going out the easier it is to get over it, 12 weeks is a short time to be going out with someone.

Esoteric_ · 08-09-2012 01:40PM

cynder wrote: »

Angry that they had to travel, do you want home abortions now? Of course they had to travel. They need counseling because they have to travel. I wonder if they need counseling if they ever go abroad on holiday or to work.

Most don't openly admit to it do they dont get abuse or hateful comments, or reactions that might hurt them.

Getting tonsils out doesn't require counseling. As people have said it's only.a bunch of cells, well so are tonsils.

You really seem to like twisting valid arguments to suit your own agenda.

Getting tonsils out doesn't require counselling as it's a bunch of cells?

Cancer is a bunch of cells. Plenty of people need counselling after surviving cancer. :rolleyes:

Ahava · 08-09-2012 01:40PM

LyndaMcL wrote: »

No, I wouldn't feel guilty because I have absolutely no certainty about what the potential child's life would be like.

As far as late term abortions go - If the foetus/child could survive potentially (with medical intervention), I would not have an abortion that late. I'm of the belief that once the heartbeat starts (in or around 16 weeks AFAIK), the foetus is alive.

In that case you need to know that the heart begins to beat only 3 weeks and 1 day after fertilization - which is the 5th week of pregnancy. This is on average about 1 week after the missed period.

cynder · 08-09-2012 01:43PM

LyndaMcL wrote: »

cynder wrote: »

Angry that they had to travel, do you want home abortions now? Of course they had to travel. They need counseling because they have to travel. I wonder if they need counseling if they ever go abroad on holiday or to work.

Most don't openly admit to it do they dont get abuse or hateful comments, or reactions that might hurt them.

Getting tonsils out doesn't require counseling. As people have said it's only.a bunch of cells, well so are tonsils.

You really seem to like twisting valid arguments to suit your own agenda.

Getting tonsils out doesn't require counselling as it's a bunch of cells?

Cancer is a bunch of cells. Plenty of people need counselling after surviving cancer. :rolleyes:

As I believe everyone does. Husband had cancer no counseling, many avail of counseling during treatment because there is a chance they might die . Only a handfill of women are at risk if dying from a pregnancy.

Esoteric_ · 08-09-2012 01:44PM

Ahava wrote: »

In that case you need to know that the heart begins to beat only 3 weeks and 1 day after fertilization - which is the 5th week of pregnancy. This is on average about 1 week after the missed period.

Any links to a medical journal, clarifying this? It completely over-rides what I was taught in college and what my GP told me when I questioned her.

Napper Hawkins · 08-09-2012 01:44PM

Sponge25 wrote: »

Anyone who isn't judgmental about rape ought to be locked up! Isn't it something everyone hates?

All doctors agree at some point the baby is viable outside the womb, I thought this was common sense? Some babies are born as early as 6.5months etc! Probably younger for all I know and survive!

Edit: the earliest baby born was 21 weeks and five days and looked remarkably healthy! So no one can argue that the baby isn't viable outside the womb unless it's born! That's not the point at all, the point is the baby is VIABLE and ALIVE but inside the womb, terminate the baby and you kill a living baby! Just cause it's not outside the womb doesn't mean it's not alive!

Edit: Also people who are having abortions DID consent to being pregnant by having sex!

Says you, after asking literally everyone who has had sex, ever.

cynder · 08-09-2012 01:46PM

Ahava wrote: »

LyndaMcL wrote: »

No, I wouldn't feel guilty because I have absolutely no certainty about what the potential child's life would be like.

As far as late term abortions go - If the foetus/child could survive potentially (with medical intervention), I would not have an abortion that late. I'm of the belief that once the heartbeat starts (in or around 16 weeks AFAIK), the foetus is alive.

In that case you need to know that the heart begins to beat only 3 weeks and 1 day after fertilization - which is the 5th week of pregnancy. This is on average about 1 week after the missed period.

18 days from conception, I doubt this info will change her mind or the ones who thanked her comment.

Brainwashed !

Abortion

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