Abortion

up for anything wrote: »

There is still an element of misrepresentation going on. Nowhere did I say that "the grief from using contraception was comparable to the grief of the death of an unborn child". I did say that many people grieve over having to use contraception which they do. I did not say to what extent or give comparisons.

So in this post you're not comparing these different forms of grief?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80630405&postcount=266

up for anything wrote: »

Their sadness and sense of loss at these events is not measurable, quantifiable or comparable. It just is.

So is that just in these specific cases we can't compare the sense of loss, or all cases? Maybe I'm being hard on you, perhaps you are just talking about specific examples and not drawing comparisons. But I have made it clear that my point is not about specific cases (i fall to pieces when i loose my car keys) but our intuitive reactions and innate knowledge that some forms of grief are greater than others.

For example, you've talked about the hypothetical grief a man might feel masturbating but surely you can see this is still not comparable to the grief of a loss of a life, otherwise we'd have to legislate to allow people bereavement time after they masturbate?

lugha wrote: »

I would agree that your question (if abortion is a routine procedure why the need for counselling) has not been satisfactorily answered. Presumably your inferred argument is that pro-choicers know full well that abortion IS very different? In which case you should be accusing them of being disingenuous rather than hypocritical.

Yay, I'm gald you've seen my point. But I still think it's hypocritical as the pro-abortionists around here seem to think that it's not different but yet don't see the hypocrisy in demanding state funded counseling.

hypocrite: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings

lugha wrote: »

But that works both ways. You said earlier that a rape victim should not be forced to give birth to an unwanted child, a position taken by what might be called the moderate pro-lifers. But does this not belie their assertion that a foetus is a human being, every bit at much as a post-birth child is? How can you justify the killing of an innocent human being, no matter what the circumstances might be?

I can see you're point here but i think your ascribing an argument to me i haven't made. Just because I wouldn't force a rape victim to give birth does not mean I think killing the unborn child is the right thing to do, just that no wrong can be attributed to her for doing so. If she is having the abortion as a result of the emotional trauma of this horrific situation, it is not a freely chosen act. In this case the person who has killed the child is the rapist and some guilt should be attributed to any pro-abortionists who may have influenced her actions by their assertions.

If she killed the rapist as a result of the trauma she has experienced i wouldn't blame her either. I don't think it's right to kill rapists (well, maybe) but I couldn't blame her in any way if she did. I know that killing is wrong but I don't try to claim that suicide victims have done wrong, that would be horrible. I wouldn't try to force them not to commit suicide instead i would try to care for them and support them through their emotional trauma.

Just on the point that people have made about justifying abortion because they don't want to bring up a child in poverty, or wait until their financial situation is better.

If this is the case should i kill my kids if i lose my job? I mean i don't want them growing up in poverty?