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Abortion

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Comments

  • #152
    Actor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 348 ✭✭Actor


    eviltwin wrote: »
    So seeing there are a good few pro-life voices here lets get back to the OP's point.

    How many of the other pro-life posters think post abortion counselling should be done away with?

    Why would post-abortion counselling be done away with? :confused: Many women's lives are ruined by abortion. Many are forced into abortions by aggressive, pushy fathers who don't want to take responsibility.


  • #153
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Actor wrote: »
    Did you ever ask yourself why these posters are so effective? It's pushing certain buttons that appeals to any right-minded person with a conscience. It's common sense that abortion is wrong as abortion goes against our basic natural instincts.
    It's propaganda. I'ts nothing to do with facts or honesty. It's a trick. A cheat. And the fact that Youth Defence have to do this means that their arguments don't stand up on their own.
    Actor wrote: »
    You'll have to explain yourself better than that. Make a reasoned argument for once.
    I've made plenty of reasoned arguments. Have a read over the thread instead of trying to push your agenda.
    Irishchick wrote: »
    yeah sorry just edited my last post.
    So it should read "In our opinion..." Hardly honest to represent that as a certain fact, is it? Youth defence cannot be trusted. As I said, get your facts from real sources and you'll have something verifiable and trustworthy to back your arguments.


  • #154
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Actor wrote: »
    Why would post-abortion counselling be done away with? :confused: Many women's lives are ruined by abortion. Many are forced into abortions by aggressive, pushy fathers who don't want to take responsibility.

    That was what the OP was suggesting Actor, he thinks the money given by the state to the groups that offer it should be given elsewhere


  • #155
    Irishchick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭Irishchick


    eviltwin wrote: »
    How many of the other pro-life posters think post abortion counselling should be done away with?

    No I don't think it should it should be done away with. These women are hurting.
    I think deep down most women feel some sort of guilt/sadness after an abortion regardless of point of view.

    Some need help dealing with these feelings.


  • #156
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Actor wrote: »
    Why would post-abortion counselling be done away with? :confused: Many women's lives are ruined by abortion. Many are forced into abortions by aggressive, pushy fathers who don't want to take responsibility.
    That's what the thread is about. The OP wants these people to pay for counselling themselves, instead of being paid by the state.


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  • #157
    Irishchick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭Irishchick


    humanji wrote: »
    As I said, get your facts from real sources and you'll have something verifiable and trustworthy to back your arguments.

    I have. Read an medical text book and you will see the same views that are on that site. That's why I wrote it, because it is fact.

    http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/flu/A-Z/E/Ectopic-pregnancy/Treating-ectopic-pregnancy.html

    It is performed here because it is not considered and abortion.


  • #158
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Irishchick wrote: »
    I have. Read an medical text book and you will see the same views that are on that site. That's why I wrote it, because it is fact.
    And go back to my original point, people don't trust Youth Defence, so if you can get your facts from elsewhere you stand a chance of people paying attention to you. It doesn't matter that they might occasionally tell the truth. They, as a whole, cannot be completely trusted and therefore it's only logical that you use a verifiable source.


  • #159
    Actor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 348 ✭✭Actor


    humanji wrote: »
    It's propaganda. I'ts nothing to do with facts or honesty. It's a trick. A cheat. And the fact that Youth Defence have to do this means that their arguments don't stand up on their own.
    You talk about "propaganda", yet you've failed to demonstrate how or why[/] you think it's propaganda.
    humanji wrote: »
    I've made plenty of reasoned arguments. Have a read over the thread instead of trying to push your agenda.
    No you haven't. What you have done is made numerous assertions. Why don't you go and put forward a reasoned argument?
    humanji wrote: »
    So it should read "In our opinion..." Hardly honest to represent that as a certain fact, is it? Youth defence cannot be trusted. As I said, get your facts from real sources and you'll have something verifiable and trustworthy to back your arguments.
    It wasn't represented as fact. That's your comprehension abilities acting up again. I've not much time for YD myself, but they do represent a far right wing of the pro-life movement. It's often very convenient to have a far-right so that the middle-right can get to work by offloading the hysterics in the direction of YD.


  • #160
    Irishchick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,151 ✭✭✭Irishchick


    humanji wrote: »
    And go back to my original point, people don't trust Youth Defence, so if you can get your facts from elsewhere you stand a chance of people paying attention to you. It doesn't matter that they might occasionally tell the truth. They, as a whole, cannot be completely trusted and therefore it's only logical that you use a verifiable source.

    http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/flu/A-Z/E/Ectopic-pregnancy/Treating-ectopic-pregnancy.html

    http://ectopicireland.ie/medical-info/

    and people are still being scared into believing that they wont be treated.


  • #161
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Irishchick wrote: »
    Abortion is never medically necessary and to say it is is just a down right lie!

    ......

    The courts disagree.


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  • #162
    Actor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 348 ✭✭Actor


    humanji wrote: »
    That's what the thread is about. The OP wants these people to pay for counselling themselves, instead of being paid by the state.

    It's a stupid premise. People who make mistakes should not be denied basic healthcare. In America (and elsewhere), prisoners (even child molesters) receive much better medical treatment than if they were on the outside.


  • #163
    Actor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 348 ✭✭Actor


    Nodin wrote: »
    The courts disagree.

    Sigh. I can't wait to hear your interpretation of this fantasy court rulilng.


  • #164
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Actor wrote: »
    Sigh. I can't wait to hear your interpretation of this fantasy court rulilng.

    O its not mine.
    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-twenty-years-after-the-x-case-it%E2%80%99s-time-for-action-on-abortion-347882-Feb2012/


  • #165
    Actor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 348 ✭✭Actor


    Nodin wrote: »
    O its not mine.
    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/column-twenty-years-after-the-x-case-it%E2%80%99s-time-for-action-on-abortion-347882-Feb2012/

    Ah yes, thejournal.ie. A liberal outlook on all things abortion-related. What's your interpretation of the ruling then? Seeing as you're the one who says "the courts disagree [RE: abortion never being medically necessary]".

    btw, this "Government must legislate for abortion" is not accurate. It's left-wing mantra. The Government should clarify the situation with regards to the X Case, but to say that they are under an obligation to legislate is inaccurate.

    edit: Oh, would you look! Alison Spillane - a militant feminist! Better try to source better in future...


  • #166
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Actor wrote: »
    You talk about "propaganda", yet you've failed to demonstrate how or why[/] you think it's propaganda.
    You're either being deliberately obtuse or simply don't understand waht propaganda is.

    No you haven't. What you have done is made numerous assertions. Why don't you go and put forward a reasoned argument?
    I have, many times.
    It wasn't represented as fact. That's your comprehension abilities acting up again. I've not much time for YD myself, but they do represent a far right wing of the pro-life movement. It's often very convenient to have a far-right so that the middle-right can get to work by offloading the hysterics in the direction of YD.
    So how long have you been with Youth Defence?
    Irishchick wrote: »
    http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/flu/A-Z/E/Ectopic-pregnancy/Treating-ectopic-pregnancy.html

    http://ectopicireland.ie/medical-info/

    and people are still being scared into believing that they wont be treated.
    See? Was that so hard? You even commented yourself that Youth Defence links will cause problems.


  • #167
    humanji
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Actor wrote: »
    It's a stupid premise. People who make mistakes should not be denied basic healthcare. In America (and elsewhere), prisoners (even child molesters) receive much better medical treatment than if they were on the outside.

    On this we fully agree. It's utter madness. Whether people are for or against abortion, the one thing that can only be denied by the truly heartless is that it is a very difficult thing to go through and can't be taken lightly.


  • #168
    Actor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 348 ✭✭Actor


    humanji wrote: »
    On this we fully agree. It's utter madness. Whether people are for or against abortion, the one thing that can only be denied by the truly heartless is that it is a very difficult thing to go through and can't be taken lightly.

    Did you ever ask yourself why women need post-abortion counselling?


  • #169
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Actor wrote: »
    Ah yes, thejournal.ie. A liberal outlook on all things abortion-related. ..........

    I'm not seeing how the link to that site has any bearing whatever on the supreme court rulings existence or otherwise.

    You seem confused. The Supreme courts ruling is the interpretation of the constitution, which allows for abortion in limited circumstances.


  • #170
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Actor wrote: »
    Did you ever ask yourself why women need post-abortion counselling?

    Tell us why then. I've had it myself. Why don't you tell me what I was feeling. It should be interesting :D


  • #171
    Actor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 348 ✭✭Actor


    humanji wrote: »
    You're either being deliberately obtuse or simply don't understand waht propaganda is.



    I have, many times.


    So how long have you been with Youth Defence?

    First off, I've no affliiation with YD.

    Secondly, casting assertions over the boards without backup does nothing for your argument.


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  • #172
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Actor wrote: »
    Did you ever ask yourself why women need post-abortion counselling?


    Well, I think we covered one factor earlier, which could well apply to more than that individual...
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80620955&postcount=18


  • #173
    jill_valentine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,090 ✭✭✭jill_valentine


    Actor wrote: »
    Did you ever ask yourself why women need post-abortion counselling?

    Have you ever asked any women anything about the subject?

    We have posters here who have actually had an abortion themselves, but curiously few of the chaps hollering on their behalf ever seem to consider them relevant. Which is about par for the course, really.


  • #174
    Actor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 348 ✭✭Actor


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Tell us why then. I've had it myself. Why don't you tell me what I was feeling. It should be interesting :D

    So you've had an abortion then? No regrets?

    How would I know what you were feeling? :confused:

    In the general sense though, any woman with a heart would feel strange if they underwent an abortion. It goes against all natural instincts. It's no wonder that post-abortion counselling is in such demand.


  • #175
    Actor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 348 ✭✭Actor


    jill_valentine wrote: »
    Have you ever asked any women anything about the subject?

    We have posters here who have actually had an abortion themselves, but curiously few of the chaps hollering on their behalf ever seem to consider them relevant. Which is about par for the course, really.

    Are they looking for approbation or something? It's as if "Hey! Look at me! I've had an abortion" is something to be proud of.


  • #176
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Actor wrote: »
    So you've had an abortion then? No regrets?

    How would I know what you were feeling? :confused:

    In the general sense though, any woman with a heart would feel strange if they underwent an abortion. It goes against all natural instincts. It's no wonder that post-abortion counselling is in such demand.

    Yes I have had an abortion, no I have no regrets.

    And I had counselling, months and months of it in fact but not for the reasons you think.

    I'm not proud of it but I'm not ashamed either, I haven't done anything wrong.


  • #177
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Actor wrote: »
    Are they looking for approbation or something? It's as if "Hey! Look at me! I've had an abortion" is something to be proud of.


    You'd rather they receive some badge of shame, I trust?


  • #178
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Actor wrote: »
    Are they looking for approbation or something? It's as if "Hey! Look at me! I've had an abortion" is something to be proud of.

    If more people were able to talk about it openly it would reduce a lot of the negative after effects and surely that can only be a good thing


  • #179
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    Actor wrote: »
    You forgot about the intent part. The intent with ectopic pregnancies in Ireland is to save both lives if possible. The intent of "abortion" is to kill unborn life for the benefit of the mother's individual circumstances.

    Intent of an abortion done to treat an ectopic pregnancy is to end the pregnancy to to the woman's individual circumstance that if the pregnancies continues it will cause her death or infertility.


  • #180
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    Actor wrote: »
    So you've had an abortion then? No regrets?

    How would I know what you were feeling? :confused:

    In the general sense though, any woman with a heart would feel strange if they underwent an abortion. It goes against all natural instincts. It's no wonder that post-abortion counselling is in such demand.

    Wearing clothes and shoes goes against natural instincts.


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  • #181
    Morag
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Morag


    http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/flu/A-Z/E/Ectopic-pregnancy/Treating-ectopic-pregnancy.html
    The baby cannot be saved in an ectopic pregnancy. However, if the ectopic pregnancy is diagnosed before your fallopian tube ruptures, the pregnancy can be safely ended using medication or surgery. Your specialist, or gynaecologist, will be able to advise you about the benefits and risks of each option.

    The ending of a pregnancy by medical intervention is an abortion.
    Indeed it is the very definition of abortion.


This discussion has been closed.
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