Liverpool FC Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2012/13

whatawaster wrote: »

That might even be the plan. If it was I wouldn't mind at all, but fans would have to accept lower spends in year 2 and 3 and maybe even selling players if it doesn't work out.

Even that plan required the rebuilding job we are doing now. Getting that 15 million off the wage bill might allow us to pay a top strikers wages if one becomes available. And we are only halfway through that rebuild. Carragher, Cole, Gerrard, Downing, Spearing and Adam will most likely be off in the next couple of years.

The 50 million you mention is an awful lot of money though. Even with that we are not guaranteed 4th. That's how competitive things are

I agree that the £50m is a gamble but without top four over the next few years FSG could be left with a club which has reached a point that it's unrepairable in terms of where they want us to be in the future.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

A £50m increase in spending would probably mean a £100m for FSG in two years of owning this club before spending anything on a new stadium. That's a very big ask I think.

You shouldn't buy a supercar if you can't afford to run it.

Opr

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They bought a mid-range saloon tbh.

Well then you shouldn't expect to turn it into a supercar without spending some serious mulla

Opr

LiamoSail wrote: »

He should have set a limit though. I find it difficult to believe Kenny didn't work to a budget, in that he must have had some idea how much would be available to him in order to plan

Once he heard the prices quoted, he should have pulled the plug. Anyone with an ounce of sense knows they were all dramatically overpriced, and Kenny should have realised that something was not right. I doubt he said he wanted Andy Carroll at any cost, he must have had a say in the sanctioning of that deal, similarly with Downing and Henderson

We did have a limit which was somewhere in the region of £20m plus sales. I honestly believe the owners had so little clue that was all they specified and handed Damien full control from that point. It was just a little unlucky that we happened to win the lotto with Torres while we had the crazy man looking after the purse strings.

Opr

Average age on Sunday was 24 ?
Boys boys boys.............
Calls for a video!!!!!!

LiamoSail wrote: »

Kenny should have put the foot down, and he failed completely in that regard. There is no excuse for the money that was spent on those players, and as manager, Kenny rightfully shouldered the blame for his mistakes.

Would you trust him again with money to spend? Even forgetting about prices, would you trust him to choose the right players?

Kenny mentioned numerous times that he had no problem working with a DOF. Within that structure the manager has little to do with the negotiations or transfer fees paid for players.

I feel the fees can't be ignored as I would have been quite happy with some of those players if the fees had been more reasonable. The thing that bothered me most was the disconnect between the type of football Kenny seemed to want to play and the players we bought. I'm not saying Kenny didn't have final say on the players we bought but Damien had a massive influence with his moneyball ideas.

Some strange things went on and I would love to know the extent to which Comolli influenced transfers. You only need to look at this table. Below is a table of the top chance creators in the premiership, circled are name of players we got heavily linked with or bought during the windows Damien was here, he banged on and on about chance creation with statistical analysis of football transfers.




Opr

Kess73 wrote: »

Lloyd, for a guy who railed so much against what he saw as revisionism in others, that is one hell of rabbit to try and pull from the hat.

Moores was chairman from 1991 to early 2007. We spent far more time looking at other clubs being in the mix for big prizes than we spent in the mix ourselves during the reign of Moores.

The only thing that we have not been in the mix for under FSG that we were under Moores is the CL.

FSG have not even owned the club for two years yet, so it is a bit rich to be trying to compare them to Moores' 15+ years and H&G's time of 3 years 8 months.

Moores in many ways was a bigger disaster than H&G because under Moores we fell behind the modern game both on and off the pitch to an alarming degree. We won the CL under Moores' watch (and that will always be a huge moment for the club) but we did not put in a realistic league challenge under him and ever other bit of silverware that the club competed for under Moores we can compete for (and have competed for) under FSG.

Part of me has a lot of sympathy for David Moores as there is no doubt he wanted the club to excel, but as a chairman he was about as useful in pushing the club forward as a chocolate fireguard.

The current owners have done a lot of good in a very short time frame, and they have also said a lot of things that to date have to nothing, but comparing their 22 month stint to the combined 19 year and 1 month stint of the two previous ownerships lingers somewhere between facetious and downright stupid.

I understand how Moores was bad for the club. Stop talking to me like I'm a child. You've been around this thread a long time. You should know I understand an awful lot about how Moores was bad for the club, problems with the Sounness and Evan's eras etc.

However, you also know well enough that Moores always had his heart in the right place. He didn't talk ****, he wasn't in the media to the extent that Henry has been. I really dislike the PR stuff the club has embarked upon since they came in. I am wary of it, because I have experienced it in other things and I know what it usually means.

Kess73 wrote: »

Hmmmmmmm. Were you not the guy who was using the fact that Liverpool reached the FA cup final as proof of achievement?

Seems to me that almost doing something is good enough for you when it suits the arguement you are trying to make.

Cup final > 3rd place if it's a question of trying to win stuff, that's hardly controversial is it? But we did win a trophy last year. It's more than they have to show for the last seven seasons.

whatawaster wrote: »

I have heard no one concerned at the clubs direction post an alternative and realistic approach.

I know it's wrong that a few hundred people are on the streets every night in Dublin, though I'm not exactly sure how to fix the problem. I know the path the euro is on at the moment is far from sustainable, but I'm not sure what of the many well argued fixes are the best one. Can I not say people being homeless is a bad thing or the condition of the Eurozone economy is worrying?

daithijjj wrote: »

My plan would have been to not panic like a schoolgirl waiting in line to see One Direction and given Kenny Dalglish more than one season. I personally feel Kennys main issue was getting the team to score goals and Carroll showed signs he had turned things around, now he is no mans land and any possible fruition of the Carroll xfer is gone.

I wouldnt have been pictured with Martinez one day and the next telling everyone that a man with one season in the EPL was our "First choice". If i had even the first idea about football i wouldnt have given that man full control, i would have appointed a DOF that was not Ian Ayre.

I have repeatedly said that i have no complaints with off the pitch. What i do have complaints about is my chairman telling me on LFCTV that he wants to increase wages but doesnt back it up. Sure, we want better value for those wages. So i expect the club to offer the released wages to better players.

Its grand talking about debt, debt is not a new thing, football clubs are loss making in the majority not the minority, were you worried about Moores offering players contracts when he had the club in minor debt?, were you worried about the club offering Torres big wages when he signed?.

These owners can sh1t or get off the pot as far as im concerned. But by all means, slip into the mid table malaise if you wish to do so without asking too many intrusive questions. Thats how Moores lasted so long and why LFC failed, slowly but surely.

daithijjj wrote: »

Too many people are judging KK on flagrant misuse of funds by Damien Comolli. Kenny brought in 2 young players in Henderson and Carroll that i believe will be good players in the future but needed time to adjust. Comolli was an idiot and rightfully sacked. KK clearly did not fancy Cole or Aquilani or Kuyt or Maxi etc. There was a huge job on and there still is, there tends to be when you keep changing your position with such frequency.

What will you be saying in 18 months if we are 8th and going nowhere fast? what excuse's will you bring out?, surely people wont bring out lack of investment right? right?. For all you or i know we might only have Sahin and Allen through 'assists' from Alonso and Bellamy. I have reservations over Borini, i dont believe he is the answer to our goal scoring problem, i like the cut of his cloth in terms of attitude but ultimately, even Rafa deposed Kuyt for another option, a significant upgrade in Torres, we need a significant upgrade but i dont believe these owners will take the leap again, i hope i am wrong, i have mixed emotions about the whole set up.

Yep.

whatawaster wrote: »

So stick with Kenny was your plan. Grand, at least it's the beginnings of a plan. It's something

Something went very wrong for me when we sacked Kenny. I won't apologise for finding it to be a disgraceful decision given who we brought in to replace him - particularly when the talk of 'structures' that accompanied Kenny's dismissal were shelved so quickly.

Melion wrote: »

There has been quite a few times this summer where i've called him out on something and didn't get a reply.

Your 'call outs' and 'questions' are just not worthy of a response a decent amount; and are not clear questions another chunk of the time.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

When Lloyd posts this

and then gets a good reply like this explainging why our increased revenue might not be all that an then just ignores I've to start wondering what he's at.

That I didn't see. I didn't post here most of the day, and I don't read all of the thread every day (who does?). Sometimes I just click on the last page and post something if it sparks my interest. In this case, daithijjj had made a post this evening and I continued from there.

Kess73 wrote: »

He will reply. Sometimes he does so after a few minutes, sometimes it takes a a number of hours. As with all of us, it just depends on what is going on irl.

Right.

NukaCola wrote: »

I think the guy should take a break from this thread, and maybe football in general......his health is clearly at risk........i can see an Aneurysm coming on........it was funny at first, now its just sad.......

Melion wrote: »

I love it when Lloyd is called up on a point and has no reply so vanishes. Kess, don't expect a response to that FA Cup post anytime soon.

I'm not going anywhere. I know ye don't like my posts. Know that I don't give a ****. I have my view and I won't be changing it until I have good reason to. Keep sniping away at me, I've had a lot worse thrown at me down through the years.

G.K. wrote: »

Chance creation is such a vague stat. Surely you have to examine the context of each of those players...

Damien admitted during a conference that he signed Enrique purely on stats. I'm sure the analysis was underpinned by more data than the superficial chance creation stat but to sign a player based purely on stats is madness. He actually admitted that his scouting reports hadn't been that favourable but his stats showed he was undervalued. That was the gist anyway, it was on youtube.

Opr

Its just occured to me that i was among so many worried little lambs when they saw Torres put on the shirt for the first time, or Mascherano put on the shirt etc. Ye must have been sick with worry over the balance sheet when does days came?. Im such an insensitive basta*d at times.

Id just like to say that i do not wish to add to your anxiety any more. I therefore retract every negative opinion about our owners, i didnt really mean it. I look forward to a future of reducing wages and i am quite happy to support my team and not ask any questions about its running moving forward. I look forward to the glory days returning, its only a matter of time now.

Yours,

Daithijjj

YNWA "Our year"

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Shame Arsenal didn't beat Birmingham in the Carling cup final. That would have changed the last 8 years into a success then. :pac:

The unfortunate irony being that with the new stadium, with cl qualification, a great manager, everything you seem to want us to aspire to, they have achieved......

http://www.sincearsenallastwonatrophy.co.uk/

daithijjj wrote: »

Its just occured to me that i was among so many worried little lambs when they saw Torres put on the shirt for the first time, or Mascherano put on the shirt etc. Ye must have been sick with worry over the balance sheet when does days came?. Im such an insensitive basta*d at times.

Id just like to say that i do not wish to add to your anxiety any more. I therefore retract every negative opinion about our owners, i didnt really mean it. I look forward to a future of reducing wages and i am quite happy to support my team and not ask any questions about its running moving forward. I look forward to the glory days returning, its only a matter of time now.

Yours,

Daithijjj

YNWA "Our year"

I have no problem with us paying big fees and big wages for a player. Suarez, Agger, Johnson etc deserve that kind of money and we can well afford to pay it.

its when Cole, Carra, Aquilani, Poulsen, Aurelio, Maxi, Bellamy etc are all on big money and on the bench most weeks that I start to object.

The reality was that our wage bill contained many more of the second group of players and was simply not affordable. I don't think you grasp that

Lucas out for two months? Is that official or just paper talk?

God, this thread needs a shake-down...

Still a lot of rumours that Carroll, Adam and Spearing will leave before the window closes. That would see a striker and a midfielder coming in, probably. The striker being either Dempsey or Sturridge, but who is the midfielder?

Or do we have enough with Lucas, Allen, Sahin, Stevie, Hendo and Shelvey? With Suso, Coady and Teixeira in reserve? Maybe so...

Dickerty wrote: »

God, this thread needs a shake-down...

Still a lot of rumours that Carroll, Adam and Spearing will leave before the window closes. That would see a striker and a midfielder coming in, probably. The striker being either Dempsey or Sturridge, but who is the midfielder?

Or do we have enough with Lucas, Allen, Sahin, Stevie, Hendo and Shelvey? With Suso, Coady and Teixeira in reserve? Maybe so...

Can't see Suso getting a look in this season. Shame.