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Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 12/13

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Comments

  • #3812
    d22ontour
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,391 ✭✭✭d22ontour


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Bale-you must be joking

    Nani isn't a great left winger but is probably better than Bale is on the left ability wise, i would like to see how Bale compares to him on the right all the same...


  • #3813
    Danye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Danye


    alproctor wrote: »
    If youd' read the second sentence....





    Ah but you did....

    So I wasn't suppose to dissect it and just change my mind and agree with you about Nani?? That video shows that he offers us nothing special (Nothing more than Valencia or Young regardless of how many step overs he can do or posing) If you watch it I think most people would agree.

    Oh right ok so. Sorry about the confusion. I'm saying there is nothing special about him.

    Talented lad and produces in games when he wants to but that's it.


  • #3814
    3hn2givr7mx1sc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,838 ✭✭✭✭3hn2givr7mx1sc


    Danye wrote: »
    Well a lot of team aren't using wingers in the traditional sense but... Silva, Mata, Valencia and Gareth Bale. Nani comes next.

    Premier League last season:
    David Silva - 36 games played, 6 goals, 17 assists = involved in a goal every 1.5 games.
    Mata - 33 games played, 6 goals, 13 assists = 1.7 games.
    Bale = 35 games, 10 goals, 13 assists = 1.5 games.
    Valencia = 27 games, 4 goals, 14 assists = 1.5 games.
    Nani = 29 games, 8 goals, 10 assists = 1.6 games.

    Is Nani consistent? I think so.


  • #3815
    Kylo Ren
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,366 ✭✭✭✭Kylo Ren


    Danye wrote: »
    Well a lot of team aren't using wingers in the traditional sense but... Silva, Mata, Valencia and Gareth Bale. Nani comes next.

    I made this for you.


    Player: Games: Starts : Goals: Assists:

    Nani 124 97 24 73

    Bale 113 103 22 35

    Valencia 154 136 17 44

    Silva 71 63 10 36


    Nani = Goals to Games ratio: 0.19 Assists to Games ratio: 0.58

    Bale = Goals to Games ratio: 0.19 Assists to Games ratio: 0.30

    Valencia= Goals to Games ratio: 0.11 Assists to Games ratio: 0.28

    Silva = Goals to Games ratio: 0.14 Assists to Games ratio: 0.50

    Silva is not a winger but there is his stats anyway.


  • #3816
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    I still find it hilarious when people watch Nani week in week out and think he has a few good games and a few good bad games. Then they see Gareth Bale whenever he is on the news and think he plays like John Squire every game.
    Nani was the best winger in the PL last season . He missed alot of games too . Of course hes in and out of the highlight reel week to week . Hes one man in 11.
    Calling for his transfer after a defeat is madness . Ronaldo doesnt play superb every single week . Nobody can dispute that Ronaldo is better than Nani. Messi has games when you dont notice hes there.


    What Im trying to say is dont watch United for 90 minutes then compare their compitition with the odd match of the day clip.

    Bale actually has alot of games where he is pony . He is british though so you hear when he does good.


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  • #3817
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Mars Bar wrote: »
    But it is hard to do it from a T.V screen.

    I read today that to Mourinho's scouts do the following



    I don't think your armchair supporter is gonna pick all of that out from 180 minutes of football on a T.V.

    First of all Taylor > Mourinho's scouts. So if Taylor said a player's ability can be judged after one game and Mourinho's scouts say it takes about 10 games, I believe Taylor.

    Second of all connection with the ball can definitely be seen on TV. Judging the player's connection with team mates and opponents is much harder on TV than in the flesh all right, but it's still doable. Obviously if I was the one putting my job on the line I wouldn't be buying a player without having seen them in the flesh, but for the purposes of discussing players on here I think we'll be okay.

    So as a rough rule of thumb I'm going to say, one game in person or two or three games on TV would be a reasonable amount for judging a player's ability. I think this can change a lot because of different factors like what position the player plays (I find goal keepers and centre backs in particular need more time to be judged), what sort of view you have if you're at the game, how sharp your TV picture is (I find that a low resolution can make it very difficult to identify a player, especially if he looks similar to some of his team mates), what the game is like (it's hard to judge a defender in a game where his team is dominating, or a striker if his team is not supporting him), etc.

    So, taking all that into consideration, I don't find it hard to believe that somebody might have a strong opinion on a player's ability after watching 180 minutes of them playing. What I do find hard to believe is the people saying that you can't have such an opinion until you have watched the player for months.


  • #3818
    yabadabado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    Danye wrote: »
    What?

    Bale is a good player but his ability has been exaggerated by the media.
    nani has out preformed him the past few years.


  • #3819
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Valencia's future at United is either as a RB or approaching non existent I'm starting to feel. His strength is consistently getting the ball into the box but if the players getting forward are Kagawa, RVP and to a lesser extent Rooney then he is going to have nobody to pick out and the amount of crosses both him and Nani put in against Everton was silly when it clearly wasn't working. Nani is 2 footed so can adapt to be in a fluid interchangeable attack but unless Valencia can become a sort of Dani Alves type RB which I'm starting to believe is a good possibility if he has a good enough group of forwards in front of him then he's going to find it hard to fit in with the current crop of attacking players.


  • #3820
    Al Capwned
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,721 ✭✭✭Al Capwned


    d22ontour wrote: »
    Nani isn't a great left winger but is probably better than Bale is on the left ability wise, i would like to see how Bale compares to him on the right all the same...

    Nani is our best right winger. Trouble is he's also our best left winger. I posted something similar at the end of last season, but I'll do it again.


    Right Wing
    Nani > Valencia>Young


    Left Wing
    Nani > Young

    So to get our best combination of wingers, we need to stick Nani on the left, with Valencia on the right.


  • #3821
    Danye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Danye


    baz2009 wrote: »
    Premier League last season:
    David Silva - 36 games played, 6 goals, 17 assists = involved in a goal every 1.5 games.
    Mata - 33 games played, 6 goals, 13 assists = 1.7 games.
    Bale = 35 games, 10 goals, 13 assists = 1.5 games.
    Valencia = 27 games, 4 goals, 14 assists = 1.5 games.
    Nani = 29 games, 8 goals, 10 assists = 1.6 games.

    Is Nani consistent? I think so.
    Keno 92 wrote: »
    I made this for you.


    Player: Games: Starts : Goals: Assists:

    Nani 124 97 24 73

    Bale 113 103 22 35

    Valencia 154 136 17 44

    Silva 71 63 10 36


    Nani = Goals to Games ratio: 0.19 Assists to Games ratio: 0.58

    Bale = Goals to Games ratio: 0.19 Assists to Games ratio: 0.30

    Valencia= Goals to Games ratio: 0.11 Assists to Games ratio: 0.28

    Silva = Goals to Games ratio: 0.14 Assists to Games ratio: 0.50

    Silva is not a winger but there is his stats anyway.

    Both good posts and not a whole I can say really.

    Imagine what he could achieve if he was consistent? :rolleyes: :D


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  • #3822
    Danye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Danye


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Bale is a good player but his ability has been exaggerated by the media.
    nani has out preformed him the past few years.

    Oh right, sorry.

    Yea I would agree with you and I could only imagine if he was English.

    But I feel some United fans are doing the exact same with Nani.

    Nani has much better players and a manager around him than Bale ever has so Nani always was going to out perform him.


  • #3823
    Mars Bar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,171 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    Pro. F wrote: »
    First of all Taylor > Mourinho's scouts. So if Taylor said a player's ability can be judged after one game and Mourinho's scouts say it takes about 10 games, I believe Taylor.

    ...

    You're gonna believe Taylor coz it suits your opinion. I'm gonna do likewise with the format the majority of clubs work with.

    I'm still gonna disagree with ya but it's time to hit the bed and this is only gonna go around in circles anyway!


  • #3824
    yabadabado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    Liam O wrote: »
    Valencia's future at United is either as a RB or approaching non existent I'm starting to feel. His strength is consistently getting the ball into the box but if the players getting forward are Kagawa, RVP and to a lesser extent Rooney then he is going to have nobody to pick out and the amount of crosses both him and Nani put in against Everton was silly when it clearly wasn't working. Nani is 2 footed so can adapt to be in a fluid interchangeable attack but unless Valencia can become a sort of Dani Alves type RB which I'm starting to believe is a good possibility if he has a good enough group of forwards in front of him then he's going to find it hard to fit in with the current crop of attacking players.
    Crossing the ball into the box for Rooney and RVP is no different than last 2 seasons when he had rooney and Welbeck/chico/Berba and it worked well.


  • #3825
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    I seen ashley young play as number 10 (in the hole) for England.
    He did well . I only watch the odd England match for off topic reasons.
    Has anyone seen United try him there . I thought he did fairly well in the few England games I seen him in that role. He has an eye for a through ball.


  • #3826
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 19,923 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Crossing the ball into the box for Rooney and RVP is no different than last 2 seasons when he had rooney and Welbeck/chico/Berba and it worked well.

    No, Welbeck is decent in the air and can get up to the ball. RVP is proven rubbish in the air and from what I've seen and taking other opinions into account so is Kagawa. Rooney had one good season with headers and wasn't great at getting on the end of them last season AFAIR. Watching cross after cross go in from the wing the other night was akin to watching Ireland throw long ball after long ball at the teams in the Euros, could do it for hours and not get a goal from it.


  • #3827
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Crossing the ball into the box for Rooney and RVP is no different than last 2 seasons when he had rooney and Welbeck/chico/Berba and it worked well.

    I would agree with this more or less. As long as Rooney is one of the strikers anyway he has at least one excellent header to aim for. And Valencia fires in a lot of low crosses anyway, so I don't think it's too much of a worry.

    But because of the sheer weight of numbers of forwards competing for places now, maybe Fergie will try to convert Valencia.


  • #3828
    Mikeyt086
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,825 ✭✭✭Mikeyt086


    Liam O wrote: »
    No, Welbeck is decent in the air and can get up to the ball. RVP is proven rubbish in the air and from what I've seen and taking other opinions into account so is Kagawa. Rooney had one good season with headers and wasn't great at getting on the end of them last season AFAIR. Watching cross after cross go in from the wing the other night was akin to watching Ireland throw long ball after long ball at the teams in the Euros, could do it for hours and not get a goal from it.

    This is true, but your not taking into account his rare ability to volley the ball in from absolutely anywhere. ;)


  • #3829
    Danye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭Danye


    I'm exhausted and hitting the hay. Enjoyed the debate tonight. Some good points made.

    I've never been a fan of stats as such because depending on the arguments they can be adjusted to suit.

    Genuine question though, IF Nani was solid before the transfer window closes do the Nani fans who think he is special and see him as a brilliant world class consistent player believe that the squad will be weakened significantly and could upset or title chances?

    Look forward to your views.


  • #3830
    cloptrop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭cloptrop


    All the hate for evra lately the amount of games that dude has put in over the last 5 or so seasons is hardcore.
    Fergie says he plays with injury plenty of times.
    He averages 50or so games a year . I think he deserves to be respected and if critisized I think people should do it in a respectful way.
    The fella may be a bit ropey now getting back in position but its cause hes way overdue a service/rest.


  • #3831
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    Liam O wrote: »
    No, Welbeck is decent in the air and can get up to the ball. RVP is proven rubbish in the air and from what I've seen and taking other opinions into account so is Kagawa. Rooney had one good season with headers and wasn't great at getting on the end of them last season AFAIR. Watching cross after cross go in from the wing the other night was akin to watching Ireland throw long ball after long ball at the teams in the Euros, could do it for hours and not get a goal from it.

    I would say Rooney is class in the air myself.

    He scored 7 headers last season and 10 headers in that 09/10 season. So not that much of a difference really.

    The other night was a bit of an anomaly imo. Everton are an exceptionally good team defending, and they seem to specialise in making life difficult for wingers.


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  • #3832
    yabadabado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    Danye wrote: »
    I'm exhausted and hitting the hay. Enjoyed the debate tonight. Some good points made.

    I've never been a fan of stats as such because depending on the arguments they can be adjusted to suit.

    Genuine question though, IF Nani was solid before the transfer window closes do the Nani fans who think he is special and see him as a brilliant world class consistent player believe that the squad will be weakened significantly and could upset or title chances?

    Look forward to your views.
    yes,without a shadow of a doubt.


  • #3833
    yabadabado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,647 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    Pro. F wrote: »
    I would say Rooney is class in the air myself.

    He scored 7 headers last season and 10 headers in that 09/10 season. So not that much of a difference really.

    The other night was a bit of an anomaly imo. Everton are an exceptionally good team defending, and they seem to specialise in making life difficult for wingers.
    Where did you get those figures from ?


  • #3834
    Pro. F
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,219 ✭✭✭✭Pro. F


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Where did you get those figures from ?

    Oh sorry, forgot to say. I got them from the official PL website. There is a statistics section in each player's profile.
    Danye wrote: »
    I'm exhausted and hitting the hay. Enjoyed the debate tonight. Some good points made.

    I've never been a fan of stats as such because depending on the arguments they can be adjusted to suit.

    Genuine question though, IF Nani was solid before the transfer window closes do the Nani fans who think he is special and see him as a brilliant world class consistent player believe that the squad will be weakened significantly and could upset or title chances?

    Look forward to your views.

    I would say yes as he's pretty much our best winger all things considered.


  • #3835
    Mikeyt086
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,825 ✭✭✭Mikeyt086


    Danye wrote: »
    I'm exhausted and hitting the hay. Enjoyed the debate tonight. Some good points made.

    I've never been a fan of stats as such because depending on the arguments they can be adjusted to suit.

    Genuine question though, IF Nani was solid before the transfer window closes do the Nani fans who think he is special and see him as a brilliant world class consistent player believe that the squad will be weakened significantly and could upset or title chances?

    Look forward to your views.

    mqdefault.jpg

    :pac:


  • #3836
    Irish94
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Irish94


    Danye wrote: »
    Genuine question though, IF Nani was solid before the transfer window closes do the Nani fans who think he is special and see him as a brilliant world class consistent player believe that the squad will be weakened significantly and could upset or title chances?

    Look forward to your views.

    Any fan that thinks our squad would not be weakened significantly is just foolish. Young and Valencia wouldn't be able to contribute the goals that Nani can offer. I don't know about the rest of ye but before Kagawa/Van Persie were signed, I thought Rooney and Nani were the only players in the team that could give you that moment of magic. Kinda like when Ronaldo was at the club, even if he was having the worst game of his career you knew any time he got the ball he had a chance of scoring or just doing something spectacular. To lose a player like this is a huge blow I think.

    Anyone have the code for the fantasy league for this group?

    Only 13 more hours :D


  • #3837
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Is Samich gone again? :)


  • #3838
    Vic Vinegar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,241 ✭✭✭Vic Vinegar


    kryogen wrote: »
    Is Samich gone again? :)

    Yeah, he closed his account as far as i know.


  • #3839
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    kryogen wrote: »
    I just started a Moses set to sign for Chelsea before Saturday rumour on Twitter as an experiment, I am hoping it makes SSN @ 6

    Just so you all know, I am now officially an ITK on Twitter :D


  • #3840
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Bombleswizzum wrote: »
    Yeah, he closed his account as far as i know.

    Ah I should hav been clearer maybe, just saw a similarity with Jame Gum and himself is all :)


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  • #3841
    Eathrin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,076 ✭✭✭Eathrin


    cloptrop wrote: »
    I seen ashley young play as number 10 (in the hole) for England.
    He did well . I only watch the odd England match for off topic reasons.
    Has anyone seen United try him there . I thought he did fairly well in the few England games I seen him in that role. He has an eye for a through ball.

    This is actually why I was excited when we signed him.
    But we have Kagawa now so there's no need.


This discussion has been closed.
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