How to revive the Irish language.

Enkidu · 14-07-2012 01:22AM

Well if anybody is interested in the facts of what is happening, outside of "Jaysus, Ted 'tis as alive as I am and I'm fierce alive" or "Only the fat cats in the Gov and the 'Ra speak it now", I recommend the research of Raymond Hickey and Brian Ó Broin.

Basically the Gaelscoileanna are not really making as much of an impact as people believe, the students don't really have that strong a command of the language. However the Gaeltacht is holding at pretty much the same level as it has been for the last twenty years with the attrition being balanced by competent learners. Things will most likely remain as they are for the foreseeable future.

deise go deo · 07-08-2012 05:37PM

JustAThought wrote: »

Well; it's a long time since I did Irish ; but I've an interview in Irish for a ( good!) job next week; so down I went to the ( large & normally good) local library to get some cram-aid. What was there in theanguage section? Interesting DVDs, books, contemporary learning resources for everyanguage it seemed from Arabic to Zulu... And for Irish; about three jaded texts in black & White with Peig Sayers /Tailor & Anstey style phrases & language & a dictionary printed in 1959.
I couldn't believe it.

Most Bookshops, no matter how big tend to have a woeful selection of books in Irish, they do exist, you just have to go to a dedicated Irish Language Bookshop, An Siopa Leabhar on Harcourt Street would be your best bet in Dublin.

languagenerd · 08-08-2012 02:04AM

JustAThought wrote: »

Well; it's a long time since I did Irish ; but I've an interview in Irish for a ( good!) job next week; so down I went to the ( large & normally good) local library to get some cram-aid. What was there in theanguage section? Interesting DVDs, books, contemporary learning resources for everyanguage it seemed from Arabic to Zulu... And for Irish; about three jaded texts in black & White with Peig Sayers /Tailor & Anstey style phrases & language & a dictionary printed in 1959.
I couldn't believe it.

I know your post is a few weeks old at this stage, but just to point out that it really depends on the library in question. My local one has a LOT of books in Irish, including fairly modern ones (got a translation of John Connolly recently, for example).

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 08-08-2012 02:09AM

languagenerd wrote: »

I know your post is a few weeks old at this stage, but just to point out that it really depends on the library in question. My local one has a LOT of books in Irish, including fairly modern ones (got a translation of John Connolly recently, for example).

Doesn't have to be your local one - you can request a book to be transfered from any library in the same council to your local library free of charge, as long as there's no wiating list.

dejopadu · 08-08-2012 05:57AM

Quote - All citizens below the age of 30 and above the age of 17 have 5 years to reach an agreed level of fluency.

this will never work.

i was living in a foreign country before (ghana) where english is the countrys official first language , but still most people spoke there native language everyday.

this is because as kids in there primary schools, all classes from ages 4 to 8 years old are conducted in the native language, & it isnt until the kids are 8 years old that they start learning english. also at home the parents were encouraged to only speak to small kids in the native language until 8.

simple !!

NoHarm1994 · 11-08-2012 02:38PM

dejopadu wrote: »

Quote - All citizens below the age of 30 and above the age of 17 have 5 years to reach an agreed level of fluency.

this will never work.

i was living in a foreign country before (ghana) where english is the countrys official first language , but still most people spoke there native language everyday.

this is because as kids in there primary schools, all classes from ages 4 to 8 years old are conducted in the native language, & it isnt until the kids are 8 years old that they start learning english. also at home the parents were encouraged to only speak to small kids in the native language until 8.

simple !!

Only problem with your point is that most teachers in Ireland cant speak Irish themselves. In my own primary school I was hardly taught a word of Irish given I may not have been that interested in it at the time, but since secondary school I have gotten my Irish to a relatively solid standard. As far as im concerned people will never have a certain degree of fluency unless the interest in learning it is there in the first place. Caithfimid grá an gaeilge.

Thatsfootball · 11-08-2012 07:34PM

Should be taught from the bottom up. As people have said, if children are taught it at a young age and eventually in time they pass it onto their children and so on.
Obviously it'll take a long time but is worth it. Every teacher should have a certain level of fluency in Irish too.

willmunny1990 · 11-08-2012 07:48PM

It's already a dead language for the majority of places in Ireland. I think it should be abolished from public schools as it serves no benefit really.

It just takes time away from studying other more important subjects IMO.

It's laughable that it's still a compulsory subject.

Fuinseog · 11-08-2012 08:26PM

paullyons00 wrote: »

In my opinion, the only way we can possibly revive the Irish language to make it the first language of the people, business and pleasure, is as follows:

All citizens below the age of 30 and above the age of 17 have 5 years to reach an agreed level of fluency.

Each will be assessed through an oral and written exam at the end of those 5 years.

If the candidate does not pass on his/her first exam, they will be given a second chance to pass but at a higher pass mark.

Any candidate who fails the second exam should be stripped of their rights and citizenship and should face a hefty prison sentence.

This may seem autocratic or communist, but in my view its the only way we can revive the language or else it will die out in years to come.

I'd love to hear your opinions on my way of thinking and alternative views on how we should go about reviving the language.

Beatha an teanga í a labhairt. Tá dothain daoine á phlé stádas an teanga cheana. Cén fáth nach dtosnaíonn tú an thread i nGaeilge?
I am s sick of people talking about the irish language. For the shinners its an important part of their Irish cultural heritage yet most of them can barely utter more than a few words.

philologos · 11-08-2012 08:31PM

paullyons00 wrote: »

In my opinion, the only way we can possibly revive the Irish language to make it the first language of the people, business and pleasure, is as follows:

All citizens below the age of 30 and above the age of 17 have 5 years to reach an agreed level of fluency.

Each will be assessed through an oral and written exam at the end of those 5 years.

If the candidate does not pass on his/her first exam, they will be given a second chance to pass but at a higher pass mark.

Any candidate who fails the second exam should be stripped of their rights and citizenship and should face a hefty prison sentence.

This may seem autocratic or communist, but in my view its the only way we can revive the language or else it will die out in years to come.

I'd love to hear your opinions on my way of thinking and alternative views on how we should go about reviving the language.

Sounds ridiculous. Are you suggesting that Irish born citizens should become stateless if they fail an exam?

Why is reviving the Irish language such a big deal? It should be promoted in school, but forcing people to have an interest in it when they don't have one is silly.

What tangible benefit other than cultural awareness does the Irish language have on a day to day basis?

treborflynn · 13-08-2012 04:11AM

if them english shower of annoyin kunts didnt sabotage our language, and instill the need for fake tan and tight fukin jeans we wouldnt have this problem

paddyandy · 13-08-2012 11:39AM

To revive the Irish language a gun is needed .....or a hefty bribe ...otherwise forget it .

gobnaitolunacy · 13-08-2012 11:41AM

Ban it, and ppl will start using it out of spite.

Thatsfootball · 13-08-2012 12:07PM

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

Ban it, and ppl will start using it out of spite.

Could be onto something!

Interest in History · 13-08-2012 01:57PM

paddyandy wrote: »

To revive the Irish language a gun is needed .....or a hefty bribe ...otherwise forget it .

The closest available equivalents have both been tried.

The Hefty Bribe: Originally, control of all state employment by the language masonry, still operating on a reduced basis. Patronage to the Chosen, e.g.10% extra in the Leaving Cert even now - straight corruption. Blanket condition of passing Irish to get into an NUI college.

The Gun: the nearest they got to this was the Christian Brother's boot, but at least that's now illegal.

Interest in History · 13-08-2012 02:05PM

NoHarm1994 wrote: »

Only problem with your point is that most teachers in Ireland cant speak Irish themselves.

Please be kind to teachers.

They, like everybody around them, come from an English-speaking nation. The only Irish they know is the packaged 'language' they have to acquire in order to land their employment contracts. They operate in an English-speaking world and that is their vernacular. There is no context in which Irish could become their vernacular, so your expectations of them cannot be fulfilled.

Normally teachers don't talk about this, as they don't want to tell lies. The position of the politicians is different, of course....

Birroc · 13-08-2012 02:22PM

My cousin earns an absolute fortune in Brussels translating or proof-reading EU documents in Irish. She knows very few (if anyone) will read the documents but she is minted so doesn't care. I went over recently and lived the good life on her expenses!

lufties · 13-08-2012 02:30PM

I have two little cousins in limerick going to an irish speaking primary school, why not have Irish speaking schools in the majority...Anyway there is obviously no political will for this, otherwise it would've been done years ago....Iceland has a population of half a million and Icelandic is their first language.

JohnMarston · 13-08-2012 02:38PM

lufties wrote: »

I have two little cousins in limerick going to an irish speaking primary school, why not have Irish speaking schools in the majority...Anyway there is obviously no political will for this, otherwise it would've been done years ago....Iceland has a population of half a million and Icelandic is their first language.

I'd be in favour of this. The problem with that is getting all the teachers in those schools to use fluent Irish day-to-day

lufties · 13-08-2012 02:45PM

JohnMarston wrote: »

I'd be in favour of this. The problem with that is getting all the teachers in those schools to use fluent Irish day-to-day

Proposing it would be a start...Although the government seem to be hellbent on doing nothing as regards change so i wouldnt hold my breath. Nice Monday daydream though:D

1ZRed · 13-08-2012 02:50PM

JohnMarston wrote: »

I'd be in favour of this. The problem with that is getting all the teachers in those schools to use fluent Irish day-to-day

I went to an all Irish school in the Gaeltacht and we never spoke Irish, only in Irish class.
The problem is, is that the Irish standard in this country is terrible and trying to to subjects in the language itself is just tedious. The words used in place of English ones are just ridiculous.
So my class had a huge advantage in that we had fluent Irish and could do all the subjects (bar english obviously) in Irish to get the extra 10%. Hardly any of us did because it is just too difficult to grasp anything in lets say, biology as it was just a pain to read through and remember the proper terminology for every little thing.
I think I only did my Maths in Irish and that was just putting the odd Irish words in, eventhough we learned it through English. It's just not as productive or time efficient to do everything through Irish and I learned that I could do way better in English then I could if I did everything in Irish, even if I were to get that full 10% bonus.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-08-2012 02:51PM

lufties wrote: »

Proposing it would be a start...Although the government seem to be hellbent on doing nothing as regards change so i wouldnt hold my breath. Nice Monday daydream though:D

The problem with that is that not all kids learn Irish at home and will speak Irish before starting school. We are, like it or not, and English speaking country and that is unlikely to change any time soon, so trying to force some sort of change of that magnitude is just going to disrupt things massively, and it does nothign for the kids either.

gobnaitolunacy · 13-08-2012 02:54PM

If a pupil is a bit 'slow' in a subject taught thru English, he's going to be doubly-f**ked trying to do the thing thru Irish.

lufties · 13-08-2012 03:03PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

The problem with that is that not all kids learn Irish at home and will speak Irish before starting school. We are, like it or not, and English speaking country and that is unlikely to change any time soon, so trying to force some sort of change of that magnitude is just going to disrupt things massively, and it does nothign for the kids either.

It doesnt have to be change of dictatorship proportions, but just bit by bit, get us in touch with our culture a bit, in an age of premiership football, tesco, corrie etc we have all but lost our identity in the world. If introducing the Irish language had some financial and political backing, something might happen.

Peetrik · 13-08-2012 03:05PM

JohnMarston wrote: »

I'd be in favour of this. The problem with that is getting all the teachers in those schools to use fluent Irish day-to-day

Well they get paid for the summers they have off... why not just send them to 'teacher gaelteacht' for three weeks each summer, give them a taste of sitting through a boring lecture or two.

the_djoker · 13-08-2012 03:05PM

paullyons00 wrote: »

In my opinion, the only way we can possibly revive the Irish language to make it the first language of the people, business and pleasure, is as follows:

All citizens below the age of 30 and above the age of 17 have 5 years to reach an agreed level of fluency.

Each will be assessed through an oral and written exam at the end of those 5 years.

If the candidate does not pass on his/her first exam, they will be given a second chance to pass but at a higher pass mark.

Any candidate who fails the second exam should be stripped of their rights and citizenship and should face a hefty prison sentence.

This may seem autocratic or communist, but in my view its the only way we can revive the language or else it will die out in years to come.

I'd love to hear your opinions on my way of thinking and alternative views on how we should go about reviving the language.

F*ck off you Nazi fanatic PIG ....

Irish is a dead language . ACCEPT it.

It's not part of my culture (and 90%+ of this country) , so f*ck off with your nazi agenda in trying to force this piece of sh*t redneck gutter language on people.

Mod: Banned.

Cú Giobach · 13-08-2012 03:20PM

the_djoker wrote: »

F*ck off you Nazi fanatic PIG ....

Irish is a dead language . ACCEPT it.

It's not part of my culture (and 90%+ of this country) , so f*ck off with your nazi agenda in trying to force this piece of sh*t redneck gutter language on people.

tSíocháin a bheith in éineacht leat, a chara.

saiint · 13-08-2012 03:21PM

so what happens if we dont learn it to the level of your satisfactory sir? we get shipped to england?
irish language is ****, its basicly just randomly puttin letters together and the odd fancy foda and trying to pronounce it

Cú Giobach · 13-08-2012 03:24PM

saiint wrote: »

its basicly just random puttin letters to getter and the odd fancy foda and trying to pronounce it

:D:D:D:D

JohnMarston · 13-08-2012 03:24PM

saiint wrote: »

so what happens if we dont learn it to the level of your satisfactory sir? we get shipped to england?
irish language is ****, its basicly just random puttin letters to getter and the odd fancy foda and trying to pronounce it

You might want to stick with the english language before you move onto another one

How to revive the Irish language.

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