Herald Says "best fans in the world" a myth * Mod Note #53 *

theteal wrote: »

it wasn't on rte but was on german telly :rolleyes:, which is endemic of the whole situation really

My point was that the Bundesliga isn't on sky therefore most people know sh*t about unless they go looking for the info, myself included.
But you are right as are the others stating they didn't know about the game as there was little media coverage.

Compare it to 8 years ago when Shels beat Hajduk Split. They made the front page, papers had pullout souvenir posters and their were poster up all around the city. The club said they could have sold 45,000 tickets for the game against Deportivo. None of that hype was around the Pats' game or Rovers last year but I don't know why.

conor360 wrote: »

Tbh its funny how many supporters the national team gets when we play friendlys/qualifiers at home, then when we actually qualify for a major tournament everyone turns into a big Ireland fan and a majority travel to it. Seriously how mny of them supporters even attended a home game throughout the campaign? Now they will go back into their shell till we qualify for another major tournament or massive game....

I go to all the Ireland matches and it is depressing seeing the empty seats but when you check the newspaper the next day, you see that this isn't just an Irish thing. International stadiums all around the world are half empty for matches, our attendances are still a lot higher than most other European countries.

I would have thought Pats had more than 4,000 supporters!!! I'm a bit shocked to see that's all they have! It's sad really, but I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
And this whole best fans in the world lark; Irish football fans and fans of the Republic of Ireland soccer team are two completely different groups, I can't understand why people keep mixing these two groups up and I honestly don't think that people do mix them up, I think people prentend to misunderstand the differences just to bring back this old and rather boring debate.

born2bwild wrote: »

'Product'? Following football is not the same thing as buying cans of beans or paying your direct debit to sky. It's far more than a commodity; it's a way of life, it's a cultural activity, a way of constructing identity, a way of understanding the world and yourself - you cheapen and fail to understand it by thinking of it in these terms solely.

I think the point he's trying to make is, excluding the die hard/all weather fans, in order to attract the casual football fan, the man who doesn't share any identity with any LOI club, whether he has a local one or not, then you have to try and make it seem as attractive as possible to get him in the gate. And in that respect a football match can be viewed as a product to be sold.

Despite how much people love to look down on casual fans you can't ignore their money. There's a reason why every week, every team in the world sells more seats to fans who aren't there for each game than they do to season tickets. Yes the die hard fans who would be there if their team were playing in a car park are the bed rock of a team and yes there isn't an abundance of them either in this country, but you have to do as much as possible to entice the casual man into your ground in order to thrive, whether this means swallowing your pride or not.

It's the reason why the Barcelonas and Uniteds of this world are referred to as 'brand names', they're things people want to be associated with, whether they've a connection with them or not, they want to be there. It does come back to the chicken and the egg argument that 'in order to generate support you need success, and in order to generate success you need money i.e. a bigger fan base' and it's by no means as simple as I've put it but as other people have said in this thread you're not going to get them past the gate by scoffing and lording your own support over them.

Look at it this way, any casual fan who's read this thread, one that may or may not support an English team, but who is on the fringes of football in Ireland i.e. isn't associated with any Irish football club (LOI or lower) but who may have thought a few times they wouldn't mind going to see a game just to see what it's like. All they've seen from the LOI and it's fans here is complaint after complaint and criticism after criticism about how much more of a 'real' fan they are just for going to a ground and standing on a terrace in the wind and rain as part of a crowd of ~200 odd people, and how his casual interest in the football that is most accessible to him, i.e. MOTD on his tele (yes it is, it doesn't matter if he lives next door to his local ground), doesn't matter in the slightest and that he should feel ashamed for even thinking it does. It's human nature for people to think they're doing something that makes them better than the majority, but at least feign some sort of desire for the casual man to come with you every week as opposed to putting him down for not.

I know I'm going to get slated for what I just said, and no not every LOI fan I know is like this, but like it or loathe it it's a reality.

Teamshadowclan wrote: »

I'm a life long United fan. My father was too and so was his and so forth.

And ultimately, I couldn't care less what others think of my choice of football support. I don't care that Liverpool or City fans don't like I'm a United fan, so I certainly don't care that some LOI goers think they are superior to me cause they support an Irish team.

Ultimately football should be about personal enjoyment and watching what you want to watch how you want to watch it. I have no intentions of letting others tell me who I should or should not support; I can make my own mind up on that. Likewise, you can watch whatever you want and I won't criticise you and your choices.

Let me watch the football which makes me happy. And I'll let you watch the football that makes you happy. But don't expect me to watch football simply to appease you.

Spot on. Personally, I was brought up following Liverpool and Dublin GAA. When I was 18, I decided to go to a Shels game with a Shels-supporting mate, to see what it was like. I enjoyed watching live football, same as any other game I've been to, but I didn't really care that Shels won or lost. Since, Rovers have moved in around the corner and I thought I could be a bit more interested. Again I tried. I appreciate the fervent support as I know what it feels like to be part of such a group, but I wasn't a Rovers supporter. Going to the games doesn't convert you.

I made conscious attempts to like the league but I can't. I dunno if this will ever change but I just don't have an affinity to ANY club. I was hoping Pats would do well the other night but that was it.

I love supporting Liverpool, but I do understand the difference between supporting a team far away and one which is local. I'm a Dublin GAA fan first and foremost (and no, not barstool etc. I have a season ticket) and I know what it feels like when it's your own locality. The same was felt singing Fields of Athenry in Gdansk.

If you don't have an affinity to a club you can't just go to a game and be converted. Especially if you already follow other teams. I also respect someone's choice to who they want to support, whether it's Monaghan United or Boca Juniors.

It's unfortunate, I really wish LOI was much stronger. But it's unfair to blame the average supporter. And I was there in Gdansk, those fans spent a lot of money to be there, did us proud, and to suggest that they're barstoolers or big-occasion fair-weather supporters is bang out of order. (I go to international games too by the way)

The argument, as always, is that every football fan should feel obliged to go to LOI games. That it is something they should do because that's real and everything else is fake.

Setting barriers to entry or attempting to define in strict terms what is or is not enjoyable about sport is pretty silly. Are people who don't play or coach football regularly themselves "real" football people? What about those who never played it as a kid? Or those who never played any sport of any kind at the highest level they could play it at. Are you a real sports fan if you don't (or have never) actively participate (d) in some form of it yourself?

Like it or lump it, football is a form of entertainment. By all means choose to get high and mighty about the fact that you "get" it and participate in it "properly" as opposed to the "barstooler". But the dude who enjoys relaxing with a few midweek CL games or Super Sunday after a hard week's work doesn't give a **** what you think. If you make this into a contest, you will be forever bitter - because you have already lost.

Just chill out and enjoy football how you enjoy it imo.

Omackeral wrote: »

I'm not one for this barstool this and best fans that...

But seriously, whoever thinks the St Pat's vs Hannover game would have drawn 1000+ more people to Tallaght last night had the Olympics not been on tv, is just delusional. The best excuse in a long line of them!

I'm actually laughing at this one myself. We've had it before, the facilities are bad, the football is awful etc etc. Then, when a team who finished fourth in the Bundesliga and reached the quarter finals of the Europa League last season only to lose to eventual winners Atletico Madrid, come to town, the new excuse is 'ah but Michael Phelps is swimming.' :pac:

jarvis wrote: »

Exactly, that's how badly people view LOI, that's how dis-interested people are in LOI. As a brand it's suffering because it cannot appeal to a mass audience and the hostility of the "genuine LOI football supporter" is counter productive. People are watching archery and judo in preference to itand I can see why.

People aren't watching the Olympics because they don't like the opinions of League of Ireland supporters and are afraid they'll cop some more abuse.

They're watching the Olympics because hype tells them to. As I already said, event junkies. If the media and/or television made two bald men fighting over a comb accessible via remote control viewing figures would be massive.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You ****ing people are beyond belief.

They're watching the Olympics because it is ****ing awesome and it happens once every four years. Jesus.

Exactly. Day to day stuff like the League of Ireland, internationals against smaller sides and GAA national league games don't fall into the same glamorous category as the Olympics, the Premier League and the Heineken Cup Final.

You've just backed up my point, nice one.

elefant wrote: »

To be honest your point doesn't need backing up. To say almost everyone would be more interested in watching an event with the the cream of sportspeople competing against each other, that happens only once a year/once every 4 years, rather than watching League of Ireland matches is like saying the sky is blue.

But it's hardly because hype tells them to, it's just a whole lot more entertaining.
I wouldn't stay home and watch an Olympic event instead of going to see Pat's because of hype, I just have no interest whatsoever in seeing Pat's play, and nothing I've seen, heard (or certainly read by LOI backers here!) has made me change my view on that in the slightest.

Is it? If archery is more exciting than a European tie in the flesh to someone who is generally a football fan then there's something wrong imo.

Also the Olympics goes on for two and a half weeks, not like it was a once off game clashing with the Pat's game. That would be much more understandable.

All I'm saying is that the Olympics is a piss weak excuse.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Is it? If archery is more exciting than a European tie in the flesh to someone who is generally a football fan then there's something wrong imo.

Also the Olympics goes on for two and a half weeks, not like it was a once off game clashing with the Pat's game. That would be much more understandable.

All I'm saying is that the Olympics is a piss weak excuse.

Agree. The Olympics is on all bloody day for two weeks. The Pats game is two hours on a thursday night. And using a ten second swimming race with some American geezer in it isn't an excuse to not go to an LOI game.

Not gonna post again on this as its utterly pointless.

F*ck the Olympics. I don't like Judo, Swimming or any of that other stuff at any other time of the year, so why in gods name would I watch it now?

It's like when Ireland were doing well in the Cricket, everyone was a cricket expert then. Same goes for all the other sports we do well in. That is the way people act when the Olympics are on. Everyone is a f**king ping pong expert.