Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

GerM · 22-07-2012 5:14pm

Wouldn't mind seeing David Wallace. Not sure what his plans were after retirement but he was extremely articulate and insightful alongside Horgan during the WC. I'd take Wallace ahead of Flannery who, although good, seems less impartial than Wally. Fla is regularly in the public eye and won't want to put anyone's nose out of joint.

CatFromHue · 22-07-2012 5:58pm

I don't mind Popey or Hook but I find McGurk tends to change the atmosphere of the panel and gives it a darker edge. Hook on his radio show is almost a completely different guy! McGurk is also bad at his job if you ask me in that he continually interrupts people and stops the flow of conversation.

Check out the first segment in the article below, if you heard Popey at the end when he thought it was on adbreak he was mighty pissed.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/1017/1224305920727.html

totallegend · 23-07-2012 10:07am

CatFromHue wrote: »

Brendan Fanning in todays Independent touched highlighted the situation of the Ireland team falling down the pecking order in Ireland at the moment.

"The success of our provinces in Europe has robbed emotional and financial support from the Ireland set-up. Grace and his pals made a horlicks of pricing tickets in the new stadium in 2010, and now they have to pitch the resale of the next wave of 10-year tickets to a public who have been battered by the economy, and have had their heads turned by another suitor -- namely Leinster.

He's right in that the HEC is becoming more of a draw, particularly for that element of people who only go to a few games per year; if you can go to the Aviva, watch better quality rugby and pay half as much for your ticket, why would you not pick Leinster over Ireland?

But it's not just down to the success of Leinster; it's about the collapse in the quality of the national side. Relying solely on people's patriotism to sustain support for the national team while the quality of play and the results slide further and further down the drain is asking for trouble.

That's the price of the explosion in popularity of pro rugby in recent years; you're going to attract people who are more fickle and less likely to turn up regardless of the turgid rugby Ireland are likely to serve up or the result we're likely to get.
When I started going to Ireland games in my early teens, we knew Ireland would be sh*t and we'd probably lose but that was OK, that's what I signed up to. Now, people who've come on board in the last few years want success and entertainment; it's easy to write them off as bandwagon-jumpers, but when the IRFU have built their business model on the revenue streams generated from these people, well, there's an issue there.

[And can anyone, indanameofjaysus, tell me how IRFU managed to spend €300,000 fighting the 'free to air' proposals? That is an indecent amount of money and frankly, I don't see what they got for their cash]

justsomebloke · 23-07-2012 10:28am

totallegend wrote: »

Now, people who've come on board in the last few years want success and entertainment;

Truthfully they want and expect success at the National level because they see the provinces do it at a European level year in year out. However the inability of the National side to replicate that success without anything being done about it will always drive people away, fool me once shame on me fool me twice shame on you.

If Ireland were shit due to us not having the players to compete then the Irish public would be quite happy to accept that and get behind the team. However we all to often see the provinces easily beat welsh teams in both the Rabo and HEC yet for what ever reason the welsh keep on winning Grand Slams. Yet nothing seems to change from an Irish perspective. We have the same panels of selectors with the same coach and the same group of players and nothing changes. So frustration more then anything it what I would say is driving supporters away from the national side

jm08 · 23-07-2012 12:35pm

justsomebloke wrote: »

Truthfully they want and expect success at the National level because they see the provinces do it at a European level year in year out. However the inability of the National side to replicate that success without anything being done about it will always drive people away, fool me once shame on me fool me twice shame on you.

If Ireland were shit due to us not having the players to compete then the Irish public would be quite happy to accept that and get behind the team. However we all to often see the provinces easily beat welsh teams in both the Rabo and HEC yet for what ever reason the welsh keep on winning Grand Slams. Yet nothing seems to change from an Irish perspective. We have the same panels of selectors with the same coach and the same group of players and nothing changes. So frustration more then anything it what I would say is driving supporters away from the national side

There has not been a drop-off of support though for Ireland. All the matches seem to be sell-outs (including Italy) in the Aviva. I think the pricing of the tickets when the Aviva was first opened was a fiasco and left a lot of people with a poor taste in their mouths. Leinster may have benefited from this and it will be interesting to see if they can continue to sell-out the games that they hold in the Aviva as they might not get the neutrals who just wanted to go to a match in the Aviva again and the IRFU have resorted to more reasonable pricing.

Anyway, whats this about Irish beating Welsh teams - the Ospreys won 9/10 against Irish teams last season (and that is without all their galacticos) and against the rest of the teams with the exception of the HC semi when cardiff were in total disarray, there has just been a score between most of them (Munster had Scarlets in the Hcup). The previous year, the Ospreys were Munster's toughest opponents.

jm08 · 23-07-2012 12:38pm

GerM wrote: »

Wouldn't mind seeing David Wallace. Not sure what his plans were after retirement but he was extremely articulate and insightful alongside Horgan during the WC. I'd take Wallace ahead of Flannery who, although good, seems less impartial than Wally. Fla is regularly in the public eye and won't want to put anyone's nose out of joint.

Yep, Wally was the only studio pundit that called the Warburton tackle as being a correct decision. He also explained very well how it was a tip tackle.

Hagz · 23-07-2012 1:03pm

justsomebloke wrote: »

However the inability of the National side to replicate that success without anything being done about it will always drive people away, fool me once shame on me fool me twice shame on you.

totallegend · 23-07-2012 1:57pm

jm08 wrote: »

There has not been a drop-off of support though for Ireland. All the matches seem to be sell-outs (including Italy) in the Aviva. I think the pricing of the tickets when the Aviva was first opened was a fiasco and left a lot of people with a poor taste in their mouths. Leinster may have benefited from this and it will be interesting to see if they can continue to sell-out the games that they hold in the Aviva as they might not get the neutrals who just wanted to go to a match in the Aviva again and the IRFU have resorted to more reasonable pricing.

Yes, there has.

"All the matches seem to be sell-outs" is one thing, but
a) when we were playing in the 'old' Lansdowne, tickets were much harder to get and there were no supporters clubs or public sales needed to flog the seats.
b) a couple of years ago, Ireland were selling out Croke Park, now we struggle to fill the Aviva.

'More reasonable pricing' is an odd one, the prices for the 2013 Six Nations games are the same as they were in 2011 when all the ruckus happened. Fair enough, they haven't 'bundled' the tickets like they used to, but in terms of cold hard cash, not much has changed.

jm08 wrote: »

Anyway, whats this about Irish beating Welsh teams - the Ospreys won 9/10 against Irish teams last season (and that is without all their galacticos) and against the rest of the teams with the exception of the HC semi when cardiff were in total disarray, there has just been a score between most of them (Munster had Scarlets in the Hcup). The previous year, the Ospreys were Munster's toughest opponents.

A great example of how you can use stats to prove anything, no matter how false it may be. The Irish clubs have utterly dominated the Welsh in the last few years but if you want to dispute that, go ahead, I'm not going to argue something we both know is horsesh*t.

molloyjh · 23-07-2012 2:11pm

jm08 wrote: »

Anyway, whats this about Irish beating Welsh teams - the Ospreys won 9/10 against Irish teams last season (and that is without all their galacticos) and against the rest of the teams with the exception of the HC semi when cardiff were in total disarray, there has just been a score between most of them (Munster had Scarlets in the Hcup). The previous year, the Ospreys were Munster's toughest opponents.

A score eh!?

Ulster 20 Cardiff 3
http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/9675.php

Ulster 30 Dragons 12
http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/10180.php

Munster 35 Scarlets 12
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/9419.php

Leinster 31 Dragons 10
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/matchcentre/8468.php

Leinster 52 Cardiff 9
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/matchcentre/9022.php

The Ospreys were the only Welsh side to really stand up to the Irish sides this season.

jm08 · 23-07-2012 2:20pm

totallegend wrote: »

Yes, there has.

"All the matches seem to be sell-outs" is one thing, but
a) when we were playing in the 'old' Lansdowne, tickets were much harder to get and there were no supporters clubs or public sales needed to flog the seats.
b) a couple of years ago, Ireland were selling out Croke Park, now we struggle to fill the Aviva.

'More reasonable pricing' is an odd one, the prices for the 2013 Six Nations games are the same as they were in 2011 when all the ruckus happened. Fair enough, they haven't 'bundled' the tickets like they used to, but in terms of cold hard cash, not much has changed.

Traditionally, most the Ireland support came from people from/living in Dublin, with a big contingent coming down from Ulster.

Years ago you had to get your tickets through a club, and that is how I got mine, through my home club down the country. I don't have to do that anymore because the IRFU have come up with easier ways of distributing tickets (including joining and paying a fee to the IRFU supporters club).

A great example of how you can use stats to prove anything, no matter how false it may be. The Irish clubs have utterly dominated the Welsh in the last few years but if you want to dispute that, go ahead, I'm not going to argue something we both know is horsesh*t.

EDIT: 2008 I think, Munster did the double on the Ospreys (and away to the Ospreys with Tomas O'Leary at outhalf). That doesn't happen anymore. The Ospreys have improved and while you can say that Leinster have improved since then, Munster have definately disimproved as the Scarlets gave Munster a good run for their money in the HCup last year, and the Ospreys gave them a good run in the HC last season (season POC got red carded).

The Ospreys have come to the RDS twice in the last 3 years and defeated Leinster, and whatever about being tired this year because of the final (and don't forget 6Ns games/NZ tour have back-to-back games), you can't say the same for 2010 as Leinster were knocked out in the semis by Toulouse.

totallegend · 23-07-2012 2:38pm

jm08 wrote: »

Traditionally, most the Ireland support came from people from/living in Dublin, with a big contingent coming down from Ulster.

Years ago you had to get your tickets through a club, and that is how I got mine, through my home club down the country. I don't have to do that anymore because the IRFU have come up with easier ways of distributing tickets (including joining and paying a fee to the IRFU supporters club).

jm08; the supporters club was started in 2007 with the function of selling the excess tickets that arose from the move to Croke Park. That's a fact; that they managed to harvest €50 from people for the privilege was a stroke of genius.

If you genuinely believe that the IRFU wanted to make it easier for the regular fan to get tickets (and therefore, harder for club members), well then I envy your innocence.

I don't know what the point of your first sentence is.

jm08 wrote: »

EDIT: 2008 I think, Munster did the double on the Ospreys (and away to the Ospreys with Tomas O'Leary at outhalf). That doesn't happen anymore. The Ospreys have improved and while you can say that Leinster have improved since then, Munster have definately disimproved as the Scarlets gave Munster a good run for their money in the HCup last year, and the Ospreys gave them a good run in the HC last season (season POC got red carded).

The Ospreys have come to the RDS twice in the last 3 years and defeated Leinster, and whatever about being tired this year because of the final (and don't forget 6Ns games/NZ tour have back-to-back games), you can't say the same for 2010 as Leinster were knocked out in the semis by Toulouse.

Irrelevant tangent, not getting involved. Ask yourself if you genuinely think the Welsh clubs have been more successful in recent years than the Irish (but don't bother posting the answer).

jm08 · 23-07-2012 2:40pm

molloyjh wrote: »

A score eh!?

Ulster 20 Cardiff 3
http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/9675.php

Blues 21 - Ulster 14

Ulster 30 Dragons 12
http://www.ulsterrugby.com/rugby/10180.php

dragons are the weakest Welsh team, so nothing to boast of there but:
Dragons 20 - 6 Munster

Munster 35 Scarlets 12
http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/9419.php

Rabo: Scarlets 20 - 20 Munster
HC Scarlets 14 - 17 Munster
HC Munster 19 - 13 scarlets

Leinster 31 Dragons 10
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/matchcentre/8468.php

Leinster 52 Cardiff 9
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/matchcentre/9022.php

Blues 19 - 23 Leinster

The Ospreys were the only Welsh side to really stand up to the Irish sides this season.

The Ospreys dominated the Irish sides this year. Cardiff had a poor season in general, but they still made a HC semi so they must not have been too shabby.

totallegend · 23-07-2012 2:43pm

jm08 wrote: »

The Ospreys dominated the Irish sides this year. Cardiff had a poor season in general, but they still made a HC semi so they must not have been too shabby.

They made a HC quarter-final after coming second in the weakest pool in recent years.

TheKeenMachine · 23-07-2012 2:45pm

jm08 wrote: »

EDIT: 2008 I think, Munster did the double on the Ospreys (and away to the Ospreys with Tomas O'Leary at outhalf). That doesn't happen anymore. The Ospreys have improved and while you can say that Leinster have improved since then, Munster have definately disimproved as the Scarlets gave Munster a good run for their money in the HCup last year, and the Ospreys gave them a good run in the HC last season (season POC got red carded).

The Ospreys have come to the RDS twice in the last 3 years and defeated Leinster, and whatever about being tired this year because of the final (and don't forget 6Ns games/NZ tour have back-to-back games), you can't say the same for 2010 as Leinster were knocked out in the semis by Toulouse.

In fairness, Leinster had a somewhat weakened team in the final (No Healy, Strauss or Thorn) and on the NZ tour we saw what happened when we played two high intensity matches two weeks in a row. One week we nearly beat them, the next ... well, the less said the better.

jm08 · 23-07-2012 2:51pm

totallegend wrote: »

jm08; the supporters club was started in 2007 with the function of selling the excess tickets that arose from the move to Croke Park. That's a fact; that they managed to harvest €50 from people for the privilege was a stroke of genius.

If you genuinely believe that the IRFU wanted to make it easier for the regular fan to get tickets (and therefore, harder for club members), well then I envy your innocence.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion. It was a good move by the IRFU to make some money and draw in more non-traditional support (gaa heads) to fill Croke Park.

I don't know what the point of your first sentence is.

Traditionally, most of the international tickets would be bought by people who live in Dublin (and South Dublin in particular) and who would be Leinster supporters (and a big reason the IRFU didn't want to move from Lansdowne Road). These supporters are now putting their money into supporting Leinster and they get to a couple of sell-out games a season with Leinster in the Aviva (the fact that there isn't so much money floating around now, means that something has to give).

I think the IRFU will learn a lot on how things are shaping up ticket sales wise by how well the Leinster/Munster match in the Aviva sells this season.

totallegend · 23-07-2012 3:00pm

jm08 wrote: »

I don't know how you came to that conclusion. It was a good move by the IRFU to make some money and draw in more non-traditional support (gaa heads) to fill Croke Park.

That is exactly my point. So we're agreed that it was created to fill the extra space in Croke Park.

Now, the 32,000 extra tickets that Croke Park made available are no longer there. Yet the supporters club still exists and still gets a sizeable allocation of tickets for every game.*

Does that not tell you that overall demand has fallen?

*[In fact, tickets for this year's Autumn games are now on public sale where they remain available, several weeks after going on sale.]

jm08 · 23-07-2012 3:08pm

totallegend wrote: »

That is exactly my point. So we're agreed that it was created to fill the extra space in Croke Park.

Now, the 32,000 extra tickets that Croke Park made available are no longer there. Yet the supporters club still exists and still gets a sizeable allocation of tickets for every game.*

Does that not tell you that overall demand has fallen?

*[In fact, tickets for this year's Autumn games are now on public sale where they remain available, several weeks after going on sale.]

Its a far more efficient way of selling tickets tbh. Used be sick of going around begging for a ticket and hoping you'd get one.

The IRFU want to control the ticket sales, so I would not see anything weird about them being put on public sale.

totallegend · 23-07-2012 3:24pm

jm08 wrote: »

Its a far more efficient way of selling tickets tbh. Used be sick of going around begging for a ticket and hoping you'd get one.

We're not arguing about efficiency, we're arguing about overall demand, so thanks for conceding the point.

jm08 wrote: »

The IRFU want to control the ticket sales, so I would not see anything weird about them being put on public sale.

I didn't say it was weird, just a reflection that the demand is down.

jm08 · 23-07-2012 3:31pm

totallegend wrote: »

We're not arguing about efficiency, we're arguing about overall demand, so thanks for conceding the point.

I didn't say it was weird, just a reflection that the demand is down.

Don't think its that. Just they have changed their distribution chanells. I seem to remember there being a massive row between Wanderers/Lansdowne? (some club anyway) with the IRFU over the reduction in their ticket allocation around the time that the Aviva was being built.

The IRFU retained more (presumably to sell as corporate packages etc). Not too many corporate packages being sold now I'd imagine and hence why they are finding their way onto the net.

danthefan · 23-07-2012 4:13pm

jm08 wrote: »

The IRFU retained more (presumably to sell as corporate packages etc). Not too many corporate packages being sold now I'd imagine and hence why they are finding their way onto the net.

So what you're saying is, demand is down.

leftleg · 23-07-2012 4:19pm

danthefan wrote: »

jm08 wrote: »

The IRFU retained more (presumably to sell as corporate packages etc). Not too many corporate packages being sold now I'd imagine and hence why they are finding their way onto the net.

So what you're saying is, demand is down.

He's not wrong, hes just never right!

justsomebloke · 23-07-2012 4:40pm

leftleg wrote: »

He's not wrong, hes just never right!

Leftleg you were only infracted the other day for the snide remarks you were making at another user. Any more and you will be taking a break from the forum

jm08 · 23-07-2012 4:58pm

danthefan wrote: »

So what you're saying is, demand is down.

According to the link below, the Leinster branch's allocation of tickets was to be reduced from 10,000 for the new stadium. The row was between Wanderers and the IRFU, who among other things wanted their allocation of tickets upped from 465 to 1,000.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/priceless-tickets-focus-minds-as-shekels-get-sling-shot-response-126906.html

They didn't have proper corporate facilities in the old Lansdowne anyway, so I suppose nothing has changed since then.

Like I've said, to me its more a change in distribution channels rather than less demand for tickets. If they felt they were going to find it difficult to sell them, they wouldn't charge as much.

23-07-2012 11:19pm

jm08 wrote: »

If they felt they were going to find it difficult to sell them, they wouldn't charge as much.

Guess that worked wonderfully in 2011 didn't it.

Its mad how almost nothing you say has any base in logic, reasoning, rationality, sensibility, awareness etc etc etc

jm08 · 24-07-2012 12:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

Guess that worked wonderfully in 2011 didn't it.

Its mad how almost nothing you say has any base in logic, reasoning, rationality, sensibility, awareness etc etc etc

No it didn't work for them in 2011. Thats why they reviewed their ticketing strategy for 2012 :rolleyes:

The IRFU are pleased to confirm the ticket prices for the 2012 RBS 6 Nations Championship which were unanimously approved at the September meeting of the IRFU Committee.

The prices have been set following a comprehensive review of IRFU ticket prices and ticket distribution systems undertaken by leading sports consultants, Deloitte Sport UK.

The good news for Irish rugby supporters is that ticket prices have been reduced from 2011 and for the first time family packages have been introduced for the RBS 6 Nations.

Family tickets start at just €45, while individual stand tickets start at €30. Tickets for the designated schoolboy/schoolgirl section start at €15.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/news/24124.php

danthefan · 02-08-2012 8:18pm

Suppose it's as relevant here as anywhere, apparently Farrelly is gone from the Indo.

http://brendanfanningrugby.wordpress.com/

thomond2006 · 02-08-2012 8:32pm

danthefan wrote: »

Suppose it's as relevant here as anywhere, apparently Farrelly is gone from the Indo.

http://brendanfanningrugby.wordpress.com/

strong words from Fanning, nice to see some honest writing given the dross we usually read.

danthefan · 02-08-2012 8:47pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

strong words from Fanning, nice to see some honest writing given the dross we usually read.

Yeah was somewhat surprised by the tone of the article but he really is not wrong.

thomond2006 · 02-08-2012 8:48pm

danthefan wrote: »

Yeah was somewhat surprised by the tone of the article but he really is not wrong.

Whatever about Farrelly, Fanning can say what he wants on that front since Farrelly's gone but you'd wonder how Fanning benefits from having a swipe at Thornley.

02-08-2012 8:58pm

danthefan wrote: »

Suppose it's as relevant here as anywhere, apparently Farrelly is gone from the Indo.

http://brendanfanningrugby.wordpress.com/

Apparently left because he was so outraged that a team "so full of foreigners" as Ulster were part of a HEC final.

Nick Griffin is apparently enamored with his distaste for "Johnny Foreign" and is looking to hire him as a speech writer.

*all of the above is almost certainly not true

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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