racist judge

Oranage2 · 02-08-2012 09:44AM

Father Damo wrote: »

Trade apprentices got FA money during the boom, never mind now. If he is lucky he is working 2 or 3 days a week. A few months earnings for one drunken comment is a disgrace.

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/44964/drunk-man-hurled-abuse-at-bouncer-after-being-barred-from-pub

Sounds like a top lad this guy - He was very lucky not to get a conviction and maybe a few months off the beer will teach him a lesson.

EDIT - Turns out the security guy was Irish.

Fuinseog · 02-08-2012 09:45AM

the indo article in interesting. it seems she is the wife of a former TD. it must be Connor Lenihan who made his infamous 'kebabs' remark to describe Turkish workers in this country. had he he been a German politician he would have been forced to resign but the remarks barely caused a ripple here.

the article points out ho the mighty judge is allowed to park on a double yellow line. with power and authority should surely come responsibility?

A judge and wife of a former TD was forced to make an embarrassing apology yesterday after making a bizarre comment alluding to the Polish community in Ireland.

District Court Judge Mary Devins issued the apology through the Courts Service yesterday after the 'Mayo News' ran a story on Tuesday in which she alluded to the Department of Social Welfare as a Polish charity.

She made the comment last Friday when she was presiding over the sentencing of a Co Mayo man at Claremorris District Court.

The man was charged with a public-order offence after he had to be restrained by security staff outside a local bar in which he called a bouncer "a fat Polish f***er" and "fat Polish "p***k" -- even though the bouncer was Irish.

The original judge in the case, who adjourned the hearing from last October, had given the accused time to come up with €1,000 to pay to a suitable Polish charity.

At the sentencing hearing on Friday, Judge Devins was told enough time had been given to find a suitable Polish charity, to which she replied: "There is. It's called social welfare."

In her "clarification" of her comments yesterday, she said: "My recent comment in court was made in the context of -- and alluding to -- another recent, violent, alcohol-fuelled incident involving several defendants of Polish origin who were all recipients of social-welfare payments.

"The comment was intended to be specific to that incident and occurrence and was never intended to offend any community or members of any community. If insult was taken from my comment, I apologise for same."

Controversy

Officials from the Polish embassy were unavailable for comment last night.

The judge has courted controversy in the past after a councillor took her to task for parking on double yellow lines outside the Ballinrobe, Co Mayo courthouse where she was presiding.

Independent county councillor Harry Walsh, from Ballinrobe, told the 'Western People' newspaper in 2009: "Lawmakers should not be lawbreakers."

He still stood by his comments after the Courts Service had said the judge was advised by gardai to park directly outside the courthouse for security reasons.

Judge Devins is married to former Fianna Fail TD Jimmy Devins, who was elected to Sligo-North Leitrim in 2002.

He was appointed to the position of junior minister with responsibility for disability and mental health in 2007.

But in 2009, he resigned the party whip in protest at the closure of the breast-cancer screening programme at Sligo General Hospital.

- Allison Bray

Irish Independent

pickarooney · 02-08-2012 09:49AM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

[
This is an anecdote. A little tale of 4 possibly real, possibly fictional friends.

This has absolutely no bearing on reality or on this case.

Furthermore you then go on to extrapolate from your charming anecdote that the fault lies with the PC brigade.

This, in a nutshell, is why so many arguments about immigrants fall flat on their faces. There is no room for an intelligent debate to form as a result of this post. It's just a nonsense, blaming victims and appealing to rabble and creating a mystical 3rd party of easily offended people to blame for the story even existing. Of course the judge was right to make a disparaging remark about the Polish. In fact good on them. Give them more money. What a great and fantastic person they must be. Lets throw a parade in their fúcking honour.

You just need to find four Polish friends to cry when you tell them the story so as to balance it out.

Cienciano · 02-08-2012 09:55AM

I don't think the problem is the remark might have caused offence. It's the fact that a Judge has preconceived notions about polish people.
Imagine being a polish guy up against her?

SocSocPol · 02-08-2012 09:57AM

Really this about the character of person we get as district Judges in this country, another Judge in Cork faced a boycott from solicitors over remarks he made to female solicitor, another one in Monaghan showed himself to less than sympathetic to female assault victims after questioning why aomen who withdrew charges of domestic abuse were not prosecuted for wasting Garda time.
Perhaps it's time we looked at appointing professional Judges as is the case in many uropean countries.

Father Damo · 02-08-2012 09:58AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/44964/drunk-man-hurled-abuse-at-bouncer-after-being-barred-from-pub

Sounds like a top lad this guy - He was very lucky not to get a conviction and maybe a few months off the beer will teach him a lesson.

EDIT - Turns out the security guy was Irish.

Not condoning what he did at all, but 1000 euro fine, with no previous convictions.

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/44965/castlebar-man-sold-drugs-so-he-could-buy-christmas-presents

This lad has 22 previous and is the same age. Do you reckon he has paid 22,000 euro in charity donation fines over the years? No wonder he has Christmas money cashflow trouble :rolleyes:

Lollipops23 · 02-08-2012 10:03AM

Jesus, the judge can think whatever she likes in the privacy of her own brain but the evidence that she didn't control the brain to mouth impulse is testament to very poor judgement (considering that exercising excellent judgement is her job, I would totally question her ability to do her job).

She should be sacked, I wouldn't trust any of her judgements after that. Usually I'm fairly lenient on one-offs, but judges are supposed to be whiter than white.

Oranage2 · 02-08-2012 10:11AM

Father Damo wrote: »

Not condoning what he did at all, but 1000 euro fine, with no previous convictions.

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/44965/castlebar-man-sold-drugs-so-he-could-buy-christmas-presents

This lad has 22 previous and is the same age. Do you reckon he has paid 22,000 euro in charity donation fines over the years? No wonder he has Christmas money cashflow trouble :rolleyes:

Well I do think it's a little harsh but a conviction would have more of a serious impact on him in terms of traveling and work. Perhaps it's just what the lad needs to not act the b*llocks again.

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Jesus, the judge can think whatever she likes in the privacy of her own brain but the evidence that she didn't control the brain to mouth impulse is testament to very poor judgement (considering that exercising excellent judgement is her job, I would totally question her ability to do her job).

She should be sacked, I wouldn't trust any of her judgements after that. Usually I'm fairly lenient on one-offs, but judges are supposed to be whiter than white.

I think it was a little off the cuff joke. It's not right and kind of ironic since she said “quasi racist element... which worries me” & “need to be stopped in their tracks.” when she first sentenced the fella.

Sariah · 02-08-2012 10:13AM

I found the remarks quite humerous. Its hardly a sacking offense. But it does seem a bit ironic that the judge fining someone for making a racist remark then goes on to make a sweeping generalisation of that race. Also the fact that it was an Irish bouncer makes it even more bizzare. Why would an irish bouner get offended at someone calling him a fat polish whatever. Can you sue someone for fatist remarks or is it only on grounds of race even if you are not that race. If he had called him a fat irish ****er would he have had a case? Its all very muddled.

cricketfan · 02-08-2012 10:14AM

We cannot condone this behaviour in a modern, democratic pluralist society where each man and woman is deemed equal.

Oh hang on. This is Ireland. She'll tough it out.

If the media latch onto it, and not let it drop, then there's a chance she will resign. If they don't, it will be forgotten about by the weekend.

My view is she has to resign. How can any Polish person have any faith in the justice system, never mind coming up in front of her. If the Polish Embassy make a formal complaint, that will probably result in her stepping down.

Presumambly her boss is the Chief Justice, whose name escapes me but is a woman? Is she able to show some management of this? Not sure what the hierarchical structure is with the judiciary.

pickarooney · 02-08-2012 10:22AM

Lollipops23 wrote: »

judges are supposed to be whiter than white.

You could maybe have phrased that better.

Lollipops23 · 02-08-2012 10:28AM

pickarooney wrote: »

You could maybe have phrased that better.

haha, touché!! early morning brain is to blame.:D:D

As I said, usually I'd tend to give a free pass for a once-off gaffe. But judges are one of those rare instances where that's just not good enough.

Like I said before, it's not the opinion alone that shocks me (although it was remarkably bigoted and uneducated) but the fact that she saw fit to say it out loud. It was always going to come back to bite her in the ass.

allibastor · 02-08-2012 10:31AM

Fuinseog wrote: »

its been discussed on morning Ireland now.

the remark sound ignorant. there are Polish charities such as the Polish chaplincy.

is that not racist to have a charity set up for a particular group? just wondering is all. if we had a charity in Ireland which ONLY have to Irish people it would be shut down

Leftist · 02-08-2012 10:32AM

Cienciano wrote: »

I don't think the problem is the remark might have caused offence. It's the fact that a Judge has preconceived notions about polish people.
Imagine being a polish guy up against her?

very good point.

irish judges are an abomination in general but this comment should be gross misconduct level A.

Disgusting behaviour.

geeky · 02-08-2012 10:35AM

Apparently, Mitt Romney's campaign team has an internal rule of thumb to gauge whether an article mentioning Mormonism is offensive/prejudicial. Basically, they substitute the word 'Mormon' in a sentence for 'black person'. I actually think it's a good way to size it up.

A judge, who's supposed to be an impartial arbitrator of the law, made a snide remark about Polish people being on social welfare. Then she explains "sure I'd just heard a case about a load of Polish people who were on social welfare".

Insert 'black' in place of 'polish' and you realise just how out of line her remarks - and apology - are.

Can one be done for contempt of a court system that's beneath contempt?

Sariah · 02-08-2012 10:42AM

I am a mormon

biko · 02-08-2012 10:50AM

geeky wrote: »

Apparently, Mitt Romney's campaign team has an internal rule of thumb to gauge whether an article mentioning Mormonism is offensive/prejudicial. Basically, they substitute the word 'Mormon' in a sentence for 'black person'. I actually think it's a good way to size it up.

A judge, who's supposed to be an impartial arbitrator of the law, made a snide remark about Polish people being on social welfare. Then she explains "sure I'd just heard a case about a load of Polish people who were on social welfare".

Insert 'black' in place of 'polish' and you realise just how out of line her remarks - and apology - are.

That's because blacks are the most "racist against" race.
Your "insert black here" defence is used by Mormons, Muslims, travellers and gingers alike to increase shock value and ride the minority wave.
At least gingers have all the letters right, just in the wrong order.

Fuinseog · 02-08-2012 10:56AM

allibastor wrote: »

is that not racist to have a charity set up for a particular group? just wondering is all. if we had a charity in Ireland which ONLY have to Irish people it would be shut down

irish people are not a minority in ireland. Poles are. different charities have been established to help certain groups of people.by your logic a charity for the mentally handicapped is discriminating against people who are not.

ruthloss · 02-08-2012 11:09AM

giles lynchwood wrote: »

She just said what a lot of people around the country are thinking. Big deal.

I don't know what part of the country you live in., I never heard any anti-Polish racism around here, or anywhere for that matter.

allibastor · 02-08-2012 11:11AM

ruthloss wrote: »

I don't know what part of the country you live in., I never heard any anti-Polish racism around here, or anywhere for that matter.

you should head down to limerick then, it goes on major down there. I suppose it doesn't help though that they keep to themselves a lot and do tend to be bigger guys.

Lollipops23 · 02-08-2012 11:14AM

ruthloss wrote: »

I don't know what part of the country you live in., I never heard any anti-Polish racism around here, or anywhere for that matter.

Jesus, do you walk around with your fingers plugged in your ears all day? I'm in Dublin and hear it all the time. It's not necessarily "all Poles are lazy layabouts" etc, but just conversational stuff about them all being builders/plumbers taking all our jobs in the good times etc. It's very casual racism, but it's still racism.

Sappa · 02-08-2012 11:15AM

While the majority of Eastern Europeans on the dole are Polish,there are a lot of Latvian,Hungarian,Slovakian who claim the dole here.
Unfair to just target one race just because they are in the majority.

ruthloss · 02-08-2012 11:18AM

allibastor wrote: »

you should head down to limerick then, it goes on major down there. I suppose it doesn't help though that they keep to themselves a lot and do tend to be bigger guys.

'They' also ted to be good looking!!:rolley

:
^tend

PhlegmyMoses · 02-08-2012 11:21AM

It's pretty important to make a big deal out of off-the-cuff jokes about minorities, even jokes as innocuous as this. It's very easy for fallacies like "Polish people are stealing money from the state" to become accepted thought which is always dangerous. I'm surprised that some Irish people - lest we forget that we were subject to this shít in any country we went to - are so happy to go along with it all.

geeky · 02-08-2012 11:24AM

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Jesus, do you walk around with your fingers plugged in your ears all day? I'm in Dublin and hear it all the time. It's not necessarily "all Poles are lazy layabouts" etc, but just conversational stuff about them all being builders/plumbers taking all our jobs in the good times etc. It's very casual racism, but it's still racism.

I remember listening to a junkie with 10+ kids in the care system and many years in the joy banging on about the foreigners coming in here, taking our jobs, etc. Yeah mate, because you'd be a real go-getting contributor to society but for these foreigners...

Useless scum will blame anyone but themselves for their life being sh1te. Par for the course, but we expect a bit more cop-on from the judiciary.

mikemac1 · 02-08-2012 11:25AM

Maybe she remembers this

DURING the volcanic-ash crisis that shut the country's airports the number of people who signed on the dole fell by more than 3,500, sparking suspicions that 'welfare tourists' are coming back to Ireland on cheap flights to claim benefits.

Now officials at the Department of Social Protection are to investigate those who did not sign on during the ash-cloud drama amid suspicions that foreign workers who lost their jobs and went home are still returning to claim millions in benefits.

The Department's own official figures show that during the week of April 18, 151,060 people were expected to sign on to the live register, but 3,515 people failed to show.

The spokeswoman said the week of the ash-cloud crisis did show an increased number of absentees.

Under EU regulations someone claiming the dole in Ireland for at least four weeks can transfer their payment to another EU state for a maximum of 13 weeks so they can look for work abroad.

According to last year's figures the highest number of applications for the transfer of dole payments is to Poland -- where 4,135 people asked for their benefits to be transferred at a cost of nearly €11m to the Irish taxpayer,.

The figure was more than 70 per cent of all applications to have dole transferred aboard and more than 10 times the number of the second country on the list, Slovakia with, 406.

The UK was third with 293, followed by the Czech Republic with 166.

The total cost to the Irish taxpayer was €15.6m.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/ash-cloud-crisis-exposes-welfare-tourists-2245558.html

Medusa22 · 02-08-2012 11:25AM

The judge should have kept her thoughts to herself and I don't think she should get away with it if others are prosecuted for such comments. However, I don't think people should be prosecuted for such comments, it is a matter of personal opinion. I believe that people who move to a different country and spend 3+ years on social welfare without making any or little effort to find a job should be sent back home, regardless of where they are from. Unfortunately we're stuck with the Irish people who have been on the dole for years on end and have no interest in looking for a job.

Lollipops23 · 02-08-2012 11:25AM

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

It's pretty important to make a big deal out of off-the-cuff jokes about minorities, even jokes as innocuous as this. It's very easy for fallacies like "Polish people are stealing money from the state" to become accepted thought which is always dangerous. I'm surprised that some Irish people - lest we forget that we were subject to this shít in any country we went to - are so happy to go along with it all.

What people don't get is that the majority of eastern Europeans collecting dole can do so because they PAID IN to the system for years, just like you or me. They're entitled to it if they find themselves unemployed.

Fuinseog · 02-08-2012 11:26AM

allibastor wrote: »

you should head down to limerick then, it goes on major down there. I suppose it doesn't help though that they keep to themselves a lot and do tend to be bigger guys.

they keep to themselves a lot cos to go out in ireland costs a fortune and irish peopel still throw their money around. why get ripped off in a pub when you can have a house party?

Fuinseog · 02-08-2012 11:27AM

Medusa22 wrote: »

The judge should have kept her thoughts to herself and I don't think she should get away with it if others are prosecuted for such comments. However, I don't think people should be prosecuted for such comments, it is a matter of personal opinion. I believe that people who move to a different country and spend 3+ years on social welfare without making any or little effort to find a job should be sent back home, regardless of where they are from. Unfortunately we're stuck with the Irish people who have been on the dole for years on end and have no interest in looking for a job.

can you come to Ireland, not work a day and just get welfare?

racist judge

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