racist judge

Fuinseog

just heard this on Morning Ireland-A judge has claimed that social welfare is a charity for Poles. Judge Mary Devins was forced to apologise but it makes you wonder if judges are subject to any kind of professional standards. If a British judge said something similar about the Irish they would be disciplined. if a lowly civil servant made the remark they would probably be suspended.


from the Irish Times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0802/1224321296119.html
Judge apologises for saying social welfare a Polish charity
A DISTRICT court judge has apologised over a remark she made in court suggesting that social welfare was a Polish charity.
Judge Mary Devins yesterday issued a statement through the Courts Service to clarify a comment made in court in Castlebar last Friday.
The judge made the remark while hearing the case of a trainee plumber over a public order offence in which the man had called an Irish security guard a “fat Polish f***er”.
Enda Moylette, of Derrycoorane, Islandeady, Castlebar, had pleaded guilty when his case was heard several months previously by Judge Conal Gibbons.
Judge Gibbons had adjourned it to a sitting on Friday last after he ordered the man to save up and pay €1,000 to a Polish charity in lieu of a conviction and a fine.
The case returned before Judge Mary Devins last Friday.
When the question arose at Friday’s court hearing over whether there was a Polish charity in Ireland, Judge Devins remarked: “A Polish charity? There is. It’s called the social welfare.”
Judge Devins issued a statement yesterday after the remarks were reported in some Co Mayo newspapers.
She said that the “recent comment in court was made in the context of – and alluding to – another recent, violent, alcohol-fuelled incident”.
The incident had involved “several defendants of Polish origin who were all recipients of social welfare payments”, she said.
The comment was “intended to be specific to that incident and occurrence and was never intended to offend any community, or members of any community”, she said.
“If insult was taken from my comment I apologise for same,” she added.

The number of Polish nationals in Ireland has grown by 94 per cent since 2006. Polish – with 119,526 speakers – was the foreign language most spoken in the home, the census found.

Xavi6

Fuinseog wrote: »

it makes you wonder if judges are subject to any kind of professional standards.

Lol, no they aren't. It's why they get away with so many disgraceful rulings.

golden lane

Fuinseog wrote: »

just heard this on Morning Ireland-A judge has claimed that social welfare is a charity for Poles. Judge Mary Devins was forced to apologise but it makes you wonder if judges are subject to any kind of professional standards. If a British judge said something similar about the Irish they would be disciplined. if a lowly civil servant made the remark they would probably be suspended.

it depends on the context it was said in....and that has not been reported.....

if somebody gets something for nothing ...that is charity....

just because laws are made, it does not change that fact........


the previous british prime minister said....he wants british jobs for british workers.......no, he wasn't sacked.......at that time..

billybudd

Judges are becoming the underbelly of society.

Fuinseog

its been discussed on morning Ireland now.

the remark sound ignorant. there are Polish charities such as the Polish chaplincy.

desertcircus

Apologising for any offence taken is mealy-mouthed crap. It carries the implication that it was grand and it's just those touchy Poles taking offence thats caused the problem. She said something crassly bigoted and now doesn't have the basic decency to admit it.

Oranage2

golden lane wrote: »

it depends on the context it was said in....and that has not been reported.....

if somebody gets something for nothing ...that is charity....

just because laws are made, it does not change that fact........


the previous british prime minister said....he wants british jobs for british workers.......no, he wasn't sacked.......at that time..

I think it was reported - It went something like this:

The person says "I want to make a donation to a Polish charity in Ireland"

Next person say "there are no Polish charities in Ireland"

Judges says "yes there is, it's called the social welfare!"

Have to admit I would have laughed if it wasnt such a serious remark.

Fuinseog

if a guard said that he would be disciplined.a half hearted apology would not work.

weisses

Bloody pms

pickarooney

What an absurd punishment in the first place. So if he'd called this Irish security guard a "fat Monegasque bastard" they would have made him pay a grand to a charity in Monte Carlo?

Fuinseog

Oranage2 wrote: »

I think it was reported - It went something like this:

The person says "I want to make a donation to a Polish charity in Ireland"

Next person say "there are no Polish charities in Ireland"

Judges says "yes there is, it's called the social welfare!"

Have to admit I would have laughed if it wasnt such a serious remark.

its not their job to make bernard manning humouristic remarks. these days only a judge would get away with saying something like that. what about the incitement to racial hatred act?

Oranage2

Fuinseog wrote: »

its not their job to make bernard manning humouristic remarks. these days only a judge would get away with saying something like that. what about the incitement to racial hatred act?

Never heard of the polish race

hawkelady

I have just told this story to four polish Lads that I work with and every one of them laughed and thought the comment by the judge was funny and they didn't think it was an offensive racist remake. I know it's only 4 guys but it makes you think that is this just another pc brigade thing to keep 'em shouting from the rooftops.
I'm sure another judge will say something stupid soon.

giles lynchwood

She just said what a lot of people around the country are thinking. Big deal.

mattjack

Xavi6 wrote: »

Lol, no they aren't. It's why they get away with so many disgraceful rulings.

I'm disgusted at you , a 'Mod' , using this term ... Lol.
Its another example of a 'Mod' getting away with things .

Father Damo

An apprentice who I would assume is working fcuk all at the moment getting a 1000 euro fine for drunkenly calling a bouncer fat?

That is the real scandal here.

Oranage2

Father Damo wrote: »

An apprentice who I would assume is working fcuk all at the moment getting a 1000 euro fine for drunkenly calling a bouncer fat?

That is the real scandal here.

He didnt get a fine, he had to make a donation to a charity instead.

And if he can afford to get hammered and abuse people he can pay up!

cournioni

pickarooney wrote: »

What an absurd punishment in the first place. So if he'd called this Irish security guard a "fat Monegasque bastard" they would have made him pay a grand to a charity in Monte Carlo?

Well seeing as they are not regularly singled out and targeted for racist/xenophobic abuse in this country it might not be seen as inciting hatred. If there had been Polish people present when he had been making the comments to the security guard, things might have become very nasty.

This Judge Devins should face punishment for her ignorant comments. We shouldn't have idiots like that in such powerful positions.

BraziliaNZ

Every single comment under the article about this in the Independent is a xenophobic get them out they're robbing us blind etc type of comment. It's just the way of the world I'm afraid. I would imagine there are as many Irish people on the scratcher or more in the UK, one pub I know of in London is full of them, haven't worked in years, and piss all their money away. But let's not tar everyone with the same brush!

biko

This isn't going to end well, might a well wrap it up folks.

pickarooney

cournioni wrote: »

Well seeing as they are not regularly singled out and targeted for racist/xenophobic abuse in this country it might not be seen as inciting hatred.

It all has to start somewhere. How long can people go on slagging off the poor innocent people of Monaco before it's recognised as racial hatred?

Marcin_diy

Judge Mary Devins- as Polishman I ask you to pay 1000 euro to a charity, for your offensive words. This time to balance everything you can select Irish charity of your choice. And yes it can be social welfare too.

Fuinseog

giles lynchwood wrote: »

She just said what a lot of people around the country are thinking. Big deal.

some people may think this but dare not say it as they know there would be serious consequences especially if they say it at work. the issue I have is that judges seem to be exempt from such considerations.

Fuinseog

Oranage2 wrote: »

Never heard of the polish race

its an ethnic group in this country. there are a different race to us. more so than the travelling folk.

Father Damo

Oranage2 wrote: »

He didnt get a fine, he had to make a donation to a charity instead.

And if he can afford to get hammered and abuse people he can pay up!

Trade apprentices got FA money during the boom, never mind now. If he is lucky he is working 2 or 3 days a week. A few months earnings for one drunken comment is a disgrace.

Fuinseog

Father Damo wrote: »

An apprentice who I would assume is working fcuk all at the moment getting a 1000 euro fine for drunkenly calling a bouncer fat?

That is the real scandal here.

you wonder from where the judges get the sum of money the defendant should pay? it could just have easily been a hundred euro or are there guidelines.

working fool

My mate Pavel calls me a fat bast##d all the time .
He better put a few quid behind the bar for me the weekend .
Ps he's proably right too

cometogether

giles lynchwood wrote: »

She just said what a lot of people around the country are thinking. Big deal.

A lot of racists perhaps

_feedback_

hawkelady wrote: »

I have just told this story to four polish Lads that I work with and every one of them laughed and thought the comment by the judge was funny and they didn't think it was an offensive racist remake. I know it's only 4 guys but it makes you think that is this just another pc brigade thing to keep 'em shouting from the rooftops.
I'm sure another judge will say something stupid soon.

The four lads you spoke to musn't get bothered about getting abuse from bigoted ignorant assholes.

I have a Polish friend who gets it on a regular basis. despite being a strong person, it gets to you after a while.

When those fools in the Irish Independent wrote the ridiculous article about the Polish lady in Donegal, my friend recieved a public bashing while working, from a fúckin nun :eek:

When times were good, they were taking all the jobs, and when times are bad they are taking all the benefits. You can't win..

hardCopy

There's a serious amount of idiots sitting behind benches in this country.

dr.bollocko

weisses wrote: »

Bloody pms

mod:
Infracted. Bans to follow for any more of this crap.

hawkelady wrote: »

I have just told this story to four polish Lads that I work with and every one of them laughed and thought the comment by the judge was funny and they didn't think it was an offensive racist remake. I know it's only 4 guys but it makes you think that is this just another pc brigade thing to keep 'em shouting from the rooftops.
I'm sure another judge will say something stupid soon.

OK.

This is an anecdote. A little tale of 4 possibly real, possibly fictional friends.

This has absolutely no bearing on reality or on this case.

Furthermore you then go on to extrapolate from your charming anecdote that the fault lies with the PC brigade.

This, in a nutshell, is why so many arguments about immigrants fall flat on their faces. There is no room for an intelligent debate to form as a result of this post. It's just a nonsense, blaming victims and appealing to rabble and creating a mystical 3rd party of easily offended people to blame for the story even existing. Of course the judge was right to make a disparaging remark about the Polish. In fact good on them. Give them more money. What a great and fantastic person they must be. Lets throw a parade in their fúcking honour.

Oranage2

Father Damo wrote: »

Trade apprentices got FA money during the boom, never mind now. If he is lucky he is working 2 or 3 days a week. A few months earnings for one drunken comment is a disgrace.

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/44964/drunk-man-hurled-abuse-at-bouncer-after-being-barred-from-pub


Sounds like a top lad this guy - He was very lucky not to get a conviction and maybe a few months off the beer will teach him a lesson.



EDIT - Turns out the security guy was Irish.

Fuinseog

the indo article in interesting. it seems she is the wife of a former TD. it must be Connor Lenihan who made his infamous 'kebabs' remark to describe Turkish workers in this country. had he he been a German politician he would have been forced to resign but the remarks barely caused a ripple here.

the article points out ho the mighty judge is allowed to park on a double yellow line. with power and authority should surely come responsibility?









A judge and wife of a former TD was forced to make an embarrassing apology yesterday after making a bizarre comment alluding to the Polish community in Ireland.

District Court Judge Mary Devins issued the apology through the Courts Service yesterday after the 'Mayo News' ran a story on Tuesday in which she alluded to the Department of Social Welfare as a Polish charity.

She made the comment last Friday when she was presiding over the sentencing of a Co Mayo man at Claremorris District Court.

The man was charged with a public-order offence after he had to be restrained by security staff outside a local bar in which he called a bouncer "a fat Polish f***er" and "fat Polish "p***k" -- even though the bouncer was Irish.

The original judge in the case, who adjourned the hearing from last October, had given the accused time to come up with €1,000 to pay to a suitable Polish charity.

At the sentencing hearing on Friday, Judge Devins was told enough time had been given to find a suitable Polish charity, to which she replied: "There is. It's called social welfare."

In her "clarification" of her comments yesterday, she said: "My recent comment in court was made in the context of -- and alluding to -- another recent, violent, alcohol-fuelled incident involving several defendants of Polish origin who were all recipients of social-welfare payments.

"The comment was intended to be specific to that incident and occurrence and was never intended to offend any community or members of any community. If insult was taken from my comment, I apologise for same."

Controversy

Officials from the Polish embassy were unavailable for comment last night.

The judge has courted controversy in the past after a councillor took her to task for parking on double yellow lines outside the Ballinrobe, Co Mayo courthouse where she was presiding.

Independent county councillor Harry Walsh, from Ballinrobe, told the 'Western People' newspaper in 2009: "Lawmakers should not be lawbreakers."

He still stood by his comments after the Courts Service had said the judge was advised by gardai to park directly outside the courthouse for security reasons.

Judge Devins is married to former Fianna Fail TD Jimmy Devins, who was elected to Sligo-North Leitrim in 2002.

He was appointed to the position of junior minister with responsibility for disability and mental health in 2007.

But in 2009, he resigned the party whip in protest at the closure of the breast-cancer screening programme at Sligo General Hospital.

- Allison Bray

Irish Independent

pickarooney

dr.bollocko wrote: »

[
This is an anecdote. A little tale of 4 possibly real, possibly fictional friends.

This has absolutely no bearing on reality or on this case.

Furthermore you then go on to extrapolate from your charming anecdote that the fault lies with the PC brigade.

This, in a nutshell, is why so many arguments about immigrants fall flat on their faces. There is no room for an intelligent debate to form as a result of this post. It's just a nonsense, blaming victims and appealing to rabble and creating a mystical 3rd party of easily offended people to blame for the story even existing. Of course the judge was right to make a disparaging remark about the Polish. In fact good on them. Give them more money. What a great and fantastic person they must be. Lets throw a parade in their fúcking honour.

You just need to find four Polish friends to cry when you tell them the story so as to balance it out.

Cienciano

I don't think the problem is the remark might have caused offence. It's the fact that a Judge has preconceived notions about polish people.
Imagine being a polish guy up against her?

SocSocPol

Really this about the character of person we get as district Judges in this country, another Judge in Cork faced a boycott from solicitors over remarks he made to female solicitor, another one in Monaghan showed himself to less than sympathetic to female assault victims after questioning why aomen who withdrew charges of domestic abuse were not prosecuted for wasting Garda time.
Perhaps it's time we looked at appointing professional Judges as is the case in many uropean countries.

Father Damo

Oranage2 wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/44964/drunk-man-hurled-abuse-at-bouncer-after-being-barred-from-pub


Sounds like a top lad this guy - He was very lucky not to get a conviction and maybe a few months off the beer will teach him a lesson.



EDIT - Turns out the security guy was Irish.

Not condoning what he did at all, but 1000 euro fine, with no previous convictions.

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/44965/castlebar-man-sold-drugs-so-he-could-buy-christmas-presents

This lad has 22 previous and is the same age. Do you reckon he has paid 22,000 euro in charity donation fines over the years? No wonder he has Christmas money cashflow trouble :rolleyes:

Lollipops23

Jesus, the judge can think whatever she likes in the privacy of her own brain but the evidence that she didn't control the brain to mouth impulse is testament to very poor judgement (considering that exercising excellent judgement is her job, I would totally question her ability to do her job).

She should be sacked, I wouldn't trust any of her judgements after that. Usually I'm fairly lenient on one-offs, but judges are supposed to be whiter than white.

Oranage2

Father Damo wrote: »

Not condoning what he did at all, but 1000 euro fine, with no previous convictions.

http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/44965/castlebar-man-sold-drugs-so-he-could-buy-christmas-presents

This lad has 22 previous and is the same age. Do you reckon he has paid 22,000 euro in charity donation fines over the years? No wonder he has Christmas money cashflow trouble :rolleyes:

Well I do think it's a little harsh but a conviction would have more of a serious impact on him in terms of traveling and work. Perhaps it's just what the lad needs to not act the b*llocks again.

Lollipops23 wrote: »

Jesus, the judge can think whatever she likes in the privacy of her own brain but the evidence that she didn't control the brain to mouth impulse is testament to very poor judgement (considering that exercising excellent judgement is her job, I would totally question her ability to do her job).

She should be sacked, I wouldn't trust any of her judgements after that. Usually I'm fairly lenient on one-offs, but judges are supposed to be whiter than white.

I think it was a little off the cuff joke. It's not right and kind of ironic since she said “quasi racist element... which worries me” & “need to be stopped in their tracks.” when she first sentenced the fella.

Sariah

I found the remarks quite humerous. Its hardly a sacking offense. But it does seem a bit ironic that the judge fining someone for making a racist remark then goes on to make a sweeping generalisation of that race. Also the fact that it was an Irish bouncer makes it even more bizzare. Why would an irish bouner get offended at someone calling him a fat polish whatever. Can you sue someone for fatist remarks or is it only on grounds of race even if you are not that race. If he had called him a fat irish ****er would he have had a case? Its all very muddled.

cricketfan

We cannot condone this behaviour in a modern, democratic pluralist society where each man and woman is deemed equal.

Oh hang on. This is Ireland. She'll tough it out.

If the media latch onto it, and not let it drop, then there's a chance she will resign. If they don't, it will be forgotten about by the weekend.

My view is she has to resign. How can any Polish person have any faith in the justice system, never mind coming up in front of her. If the Polish Embassy make a formal complaint, that will probably result in her stepping down.

Presumambly her boss is the Chief Justice, whose name escapes me but is a woman? Is she able to show some management of this? Not sure what the hierarchical structure is with the judiciary.

pickarooney

Lollipops23 wrote: »

judges are supposed to be whiter than white.

You could maybe have phrased that better.

Lollipops23

pickarooney wrote: »

You could maybe have phrased that better.

haha, touché!! early morning brain is to blame.:D:D


As I said, usually I'd tend to give a free pass for a once-off gaffe. But judges are one of those rare instances where that's just not good enough.

Like I said before, it's not the opinion alone that shocks me (although it was remarkably bigoted and uneducated) but the fact that she saw fit to say it out loud. It was always going to come back to bite her in the ass.

allibastor

Fuinseog wrote: »

its been discussed on morning Ireland now.

the remark sound ignorant. there are Polish charities such as the Polish chaplincy.

is that not racist to have a charity set up for a particular group? just wondering is all. if we had a charity in Ireland which ONLY have to Irish people it would be shut down

Leftist

Cienciano wrote: »

I don't think the problem is the remark might have caused offence. It's the fact that a Judge has preconceived notions about polish people.
Imagine being a polish guy up against her?

very good point.

irish judges are an abomination in general but this comment should be gross misconduct level A.

Disgusting behaviour.

geeky

Apparently, Mitt Romney's campaign team has an internal rule of thumb to gauge whether an article mentioning Mormonism is offensive/prejudicial. Basically, they substitute the word 'Mormon' in a sentence for 'black person'. I actually think it's a good way to size it up.

A judge, who's supposed to be an impartial arbitrator of the law, made a snide remark about Polish people being on social welfare. Then she explains "sure I'd just heard a case about a load of Polish people who were on social welfare".

Insert 'black' in place of 'polish' and you realise just how out of line her remarks - and apology - are.

Can one be done for contempt of a court system that's beneath contempt?

Sariah

I am a mormon

biko

geeky wrote: »

Apparently, Mitt Romney's campaign team has an internal rule of thumb to gauge whether an article mentioning Mormonism is offensive/prejudicial. Basically, they substitute the word 'Mormon' in a sentence for 'black person'. I actually think it's a good way to size it up.

A judge, who's supposed to be an impartial arbitrator of the law, made a snide remark about Polish people being on social welfare. Then she explains "sure I'd just heard a case about a load of Polish people who were on social welfare".

Insert 'black' in place of 'polish' and you realise just how out of line her remarks - and apology - are.

That's because blacks are the most "racist against" race.
Your "insert black here" defence is used by Mormons, Muslims, travellers and gingers alike to increase shock value and ride the minority wave.
At least gingers have all the letters right, just in the wrong order.

Fuinseog

allibastor wrote: »

is that not racist to have a charity set up for a particular group? just wondering is all. if we had a charity in Ireland which ONLY have to Irish people it would be shut down

irish people are not a minority in ireland. Poles are. different charities have been established to help certain groups of people.by your logic a charity for the mentally handicapped is discriminating against people who are not.

ruthloss

giles lynchwood wrote: »

She just said what a lot of people around the country are thinking. Big deal.

I don't know what part of the country you live in., I never heard any anti-Polish racism around here, or anywhere for that matter.

allibastor

ruthloss wrote: »

I don't know what part of the country you live in., I never heard any anti-Polish racism around here, or anywhere for that matter.

you should head down to limerick then, it goes on major down there. I suppose it doesn't help though that they keep to themselves a lot and do tend to be bigger guys.