Permission granted to grow GM potatoes in Ireland

My name is URL wrote: »

Shane Morris is a well known industry shill and lobbyist, and has been condemned by the UK parliament for his attempts to mislead the public and silence those who oppose him.



http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/commons/early-day-motions/edm-detail1/?session=2007-08&edmnumber=425

as usual my name is url is not giving the full story.....
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmcumeds/362/362we19.htm

heaven432 wrote: »

as usual my name is url is not giving the full story.....
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmselect/cmcumeds/362/362we19.htm

fwiw, I wasn't trying to give any story, rather I felt it was relevant to point out the already contended connections that Mr. Morris has in the whole nonpartisan GM debate. I'd be just as prepared to do the same if a director of FACT published a flawed study about how online piracy is damaging.

His main defense of the thing seems to be that the award & publication have not been withdrawn. That's not exactly an indication that the article was watertight to begin with. Would you deny that data, and indeed crucial background details; were obfuscated?

Feisar wrote: »

Haven't spuds evolved to be the as viable as they can be? Surely if they are tampered with there will be a "give" somewhere else?

Artificial selection and breeding have contributed more to the variety of potatoes that are available today rather than evolution.

What do you mean by a 'give'?

danniemcq wrote: »

All for it.

we have come to a stage in time where we are quickly running out of food to feed a ever expanding population.

If we can have a more resistant strand of wheat or corn (or spuds) that would be more resiliant to drought or create a higher yeild per acre then all for it.

All this organic crap where you pay extra for little or no benifit is bullcrap.

Absolute bulls*it
Over half of the food produced in the world is dumped.
Less than 9% of the arable land in the world is used to grow food.
European farmers are paid to leave the land idle to stop overproduction and protect prices.
Ireland exports less than 10% (7 billion euros) food products annually than Denmark (80 billion euros) with 4 times their arable land mass and a quarter of their population. We alone could feed all Europe.
There is ample evidence that pesticides and artificial fertilisers are extremely harmful but giant vested interests like the much referenced Monsanto who are heavily involved in GM seeds, crop control and pesticides carry huge clout. Monsanto even got some of its directors onto the board of the FDA in the USA so that safety trials could be by-passed.
Monsanto has left misery and poverty in its wake in numerous countries
and are a truly evil multinational.

When the Indian government moved its agricultural system away from an organic type to an intensive type, the incidence of cancer in the affected population grew hugely. This is not totally GM related but shows the dangers of chemical ingestion from foods.

I am not anti GM as such but when its development is left in the hands of gangsters like Monsanto, I worry big time.

I have to take some people up on the point regarding gm providing increased food production. Saying we dont need more food so we dont need gm is like saying we have enough bridges so we dont need engineers. Engineering is more than just building bridges and gm is more than just increased food production.

Gm can provide any enhancement you can think of. One recent enhancement involves the use of a gene found artic fish. The gene produces a certain "antifreeze" protein allowing basic metobolic processes in artic waters. The gene can and has been placed in fruits and veg in order to allow them to grow in cold enviroments. Eg we could produce any produce in Ireland.

Genetic engineering doesnt have to involve any chemicals not found in nature. It usually involves the addition of a gene, a sequence involving the nucliec acids. The sequence of those Nucleic acids tells structures in the cell called ribosomes to make protien. Proteins are just a sequence of amino acids in a certain order. The sequence of amino acids gives the protein its shape and funtion. Eg insulin is a protein. Enzymes which speed up chemical reactions are protiens and haemoglobin which carries oxygen are proteins. There is nothing anti green about gm foods. If anything they are more green than most produce.

Colmustard wrote: »

Now that is absolute bull****.

When India lifted itself from third world to second world by the green revolution people lived longer, so more got cancer.

If there is an over supply of food why is the price of basic food commodities such as grains meats and fruits increasing in price.

Mild is reducing in price but only because of industrialisation of milk production.

Now thats crap

A study by the Indian ministry of health in Sep 2009 was comissioned to investigate the alarming rise in cancer rates in certain parts of the Punjab region. This was after lobbying by a group of worried farmer families led by a farmer called Jarnail Singh. They were convinced that the area once with one of the lowest cancer rates in the world, less than 1 in 1000 was now at western worlld rates 1 in 3.
The study, based mainly on interviews with thousands of families in farming villages, and reviews of their medical records, was released the next year. It found that Singh and his colleagues hunch was right: There was a significantly rise in the rate of cancer in a short number of years in villages where pesticide use was heavy. Nothing to do with longer lifespans.
Monsanto's well documented influence in the Indian ministry's of health and agriculture is now being questioned by a growing number of politicians and health professionals.

There is an over supply of food in wealthy nations, you would need to be in a coma not to realise that. Go to the waste bins of any food seller, restaurant (or many households for that matter) to see waste at its finest. Multi million dollar / euro "health and weight loss" industries flourish from over eating.

Basic food commodities such as grains meats and fruits increasing in price? Debatable and depends on the type, An apple cost 30p in 1996 (I have a price list from our retail foodstore from then), 50c today, carrots 36p/lb then, 86c / kilo now. Fruit and veg are largely non subsidised, market controlled & have increased very little and are still cheap relative to other foods.
Energy and labour costs have forced price increases in most consumables.

But the real reason for scarcity and increased prices on certain food types is political. We would rather pay farmers to stop producing certain produce than let it find its true market value. We have put overproduced beef and milk into storage and paid intervention for years rather than let the market regulate supply and demand. While we paid top dollar the excess was dumped into Russia and other countries.
While intervention is much less of an issue now, european agriculture should be treated like most businesses and produce to supply a market, no subsities, single farm payments etc. The argument that cheap imports will destroy us - rubbish, any native manufacturer could claim that.

As I said I am not against the proper scientific study of the benefits and risks of GM foods. I am concerned by the fact that it is left up to powerful influencial multinationals with no scruples or morality to manipulate test results as they see fit.

sparksfly wrote: »

Now thats crap

A study by the Indian ministry of health in Sep 2009 was comissioned to investigate the alarming rise in cancer rates in certain parts of the Punjab region. This was after lobbying by a group of worried farmer families led by a farmer called Jarnail Singh. They were convinced that the area once with one of the lowest cancer rates in the world, less than 1 in 1000 was now at western worlld rates 1 in 3.
The study, based mainly on interviews with thousands of families in farming villages, and reviews of their medical records, was released the next year. It found that Singh and his colleagues hunch was right: There was a significantly rise in the rate of cancer in a short number of years in villages where pesticide use was heavy. Nothing to do with longer lifespans.
Monsanto's well documented influence in the Indian ministry's of health and agriculture is now being questioned by a growing number of politicians and health professionals.

There is an over supply of food in wealthy nations, you would need to be in a coma not to realise that. Go to the waste bins of any food seller, restaurant (or many households for that matter) to see waste at its finest. Multi million dollar / euro "health and weight loss" industries flourish from over eating.

Basic food commodities such as grains meats and fruits increasing in price? Debatable and depends on the type, An apple cost 30p in 1996 (I have a price list from our retail foodstore from then), 50c today, carrots 36p/lb then, 86c / kilo now. Fruit and veg are largely non subsidised, market controlled & have increased very little and are still cheap relative to other foods.
Energy and labour costs have forced price increases in most consumables.

But the real reason for scarcity and increased prices on certain food types is political. We would rather pay farmers to stop producing certain produce than let it find its true market value. We have put overproduced beef and milk into storage and paid intervention for years rather than let the market regulate supply and demand. While we paid top dollar the excess was dumped into Russia and other countries.
While intervention is much less of an issue now, european agriculture should be treated like most businesses and produce to supply a market, no subsities, single farm payments etc. The argument that cheap imports will destroy us - rubbish, any native manufacturer could claim that.

As I said I am not against the proper scientific study of the benefits and risks of GM foods. I am concerned by the fact that it is left up to powerful influencial multinationals with no scruples or morality to manipulate test results as they see fit.

The price of food is rising weather you want to throw figures up from 1996 or 1976, why is their riots in the 3rd world due to the price of grains sky rocketing

here's the wheat price since aug 09 till now
http://data.hgca.com/graphs/files/050.gif
The price has gone one way largely, you can say its down to speculators but ask anyone who works in the grain trading business its only a small part, drought in russia in 2010 drought in USA, floods in Australia, Harsh european winter just gone out, they are what is driving the markets fact is these are all caused by nature.
Man will never control the weather, yield's of wheat in Western Australia are roughly 1-2T/ha compared with Ireland 10T/Ha.

Moisture is the biggest constraint and if the 2nd generation of Genetic modification comes to fore this is where the REAL benefit will be seen to man. The development of RR corn and soybeans while helped make herbicide programmes simpler it never had the impact it was believed to have. In the scale of it and no offence to anyone who developed them but they were pretty harmless.

Tipp Man wrote: »

there are a whole host of other factors limiting or controlling agri production in the EU

Milk quota
Beet Quota
Nitrates Directive
REPS or other environmental schemes

This list is nearly endless

Exactly my point.
The main long term influence on agrifood prices and availability is huge vested interests and political manipulation, not weather and lack of resources.

I am at pains to say that I am not against the idea of researching the good and bad in GM foods.
But people really need to do some research into the behaviour of the main companies behind the current GM drive. The amount of control that they exercise over the agrifood sector in the countries where their seeds are used is extraordinary.

An excerpt taken from an investigation by american Vanity Fair magazine.-

Quote
"Farmers who buy Monsanto’s patented Roundup Ready seeds are required to sign an agreement promising not to save the seed produced after each harvest for re-planting, or to sell the seed to other farmers. This means that farmers must buy new seed every year.
It’s easy for G.M. seeds to get mixed in with traditional varieties. The seeds look identical; only a laboratory analysis can show the difference. Even if a farmer doesn’t buy G.M. seeds and doesn’t want them on his land, it’s a safe bet he’ll get a visit from Monsanto, if crops grown from G.M. seeds are discovered in his fields.
A shopkeeper in Missouri, Gary Rinehart, in a case of mistaken identity was accused of being a farmer by a Monsanto agent who arrived in his store. The man began verbally attacking him, saying he had proof that Rinehart had planted Monsanto’s genetically modified (G.M.) soybeans in violation of the company’s patent. Better come clean and settle with Monsanto, Rinehart says the man told him—or face the consequences.
He was angry that somebody could just barge into the store and embarrass him in front of everyone. “It made me and my business look bad,” he says. Rinehart says he told the intruder, “You got the wrong guy.”
When the stranger persisted, Rinehart showed him the door. On the way out the man kept making threats. Rinehart says he can’t remember the exact words, but they were to the effect of: “Monsanto is big. You can’t win. We will get you. You will pay.”
Scenes like this are playing out in many parts of rural America these days as Monsanto goes after farmers, farmers’ co-ops, seed dealers—anyone it suspects may have infringed its patents of genetically modified seeds.
As interviews and reams of court documents reveal, Monsanto relies on a shadowy army of private investigators and agents in the American heartland to strike fear into farm country. They fan out into fields and farm towns, where they secretly videotape and photograph farmers, store owners, and co-ops; infiltrate community meetings; and gather information from informants about farming activities.
Farmers say that some Monsanto agents pretend to be surveyors. Others confront farmers on their land and try to pressure them to sign papers giving Monsanto access to their private records. Farmers call them the “seed police” and use words such as “Gestapo” and “Mafia” to describe their tactics."
Unquote.

Do irish people seriously want the likes of this company controlling our crop and seed supply. Anywhere that these top GM companies have got a grip, the results have been unsavoury to say the least.

sparksfly wrote: »

Exactly my point.
The main long term influence on agrifood prices and availability is huge vested interests and political manipulation, not weather and lack of resources.

I am at pains to say that I am not against the idea of researching the good and bad in GM foods.
But people really need to do some research into the behaviour of the main companies behind the current GM drive. The amount of control that they exercise over the agrifood sector in the countries where their seeds are used is extraordinary.

An excerpt taken from an investigation by american Vanity Fair magazine.-

Quote
"Farmers who buy Monsanto’s patented Roundup Ready seeds are required to sign an agreement promising not to save the seed produced after each harvest for re-planting, or to sell the seed to other farmers. This means that farmers must buy new seed every year.
It’s easy for G.M. seeds to get mixed in with traditional varieties. The seeds look identical; only a laboratory analysis can show the difference. Even if a farmer doesn’t buy G.M. seeds and doesn’t want them on his land, it’s a safe bet he’ll get a visit from Monsanto, if crops grown from G.M. seeds are discovered in his fields.
A shopkeeper in Missouri, Gary Rinehart, in a case of mistaken identity was accused of being a farmer by a Monsanto agent who arrived in his store. The man began verbally attacking him, saying he had proof that Rinehart had planted Monsanto’s genetically modified (G.M.) soybeans in violation of the company’s patent. Better come clean and settle with Monsanto, Rinehart says the man told him—or face the consequences.
He was angry that somebody could just barge into the store and embarrass him in front of everyone. “It made me and my business look bad,” he says. Rinehart says he told the intruder, “You got the wrong guy.”
When the stranger persisted, Rinehart showed him the door. On the way out the man kept making threats. Rinehart says he can’t remember the exact words, but they were to the effect of: “Monsanto is big. You can’t win. We will get you. You will pay.”
Scenes like this are playing out in many parts of rural America these days as Monsanto goes after farmers, farmers’ co-ops, seed dealers—anyone it suspects may have infringed its patents of genetically modified seeds.
As interviews and reams of court documents reveal, Monsanto relies on a shadowy army of private investigators and agents in the American heartland to strike fear into farm country. They fan out into fields and farm towns, where they secretly videotape and photograph farmers, store owners, and co-ops; infiltrate community meetings; and gather information from informants about farming activities.
Farmers say that some Monsanto agents pretend to be surveyors. Others confront farmers on their land and try to pressure them to sign papers giving Monsanto access to their private records. Farmers call them the “seed police” and use words such as “Gestapo” and “Mafia” to describe their tactics."
Unquote.

Do irish people seriously want the likes of this company controlling our crop and seed supply. Anywhere that these top GM companies have got a grip, the results have been unsavoury to say the least.

Look im for gm in the biological sense but I wouldnt stand for one company threatening farmers either. We have one of the oldest and best agriculture traditions in the world and Id like to keep it that way. Thats why its good that an Irish department like teagasc is running these trials.