Farming Chit Chat

bbam · 31-07-2012 06:38AM

just do it wrote: »

How about calling a few of your local dairy farmers? You'd know the ones you'd like to buy off and it could become an ongoing thing.

Yes.
Nothing with either of the dairy men I'd deal with.

bbam · 31-07-2012 06:43AM

whelan1 wrote: »

fooking pricks robbed my elderly neighbours this evening............. really pissed off, in broad daylight .... the old man has a heart condition and she is unwell.... neighbour on the other side has cctv so looking through that now.... :mad:

It's just not on.
These scumbags are just sub human.

It's just impossible to understand how they get into the frame of mind where they can justify this carry on in their heads, it just shows how far removed from society they are and that they should be locked away from ordinary decent folk.

Suckler · 31-07-2012 07:00AM

bbam wrote: »

It's just not on.
These scumbags are just sub human.

It's just impossible to understand how they get into the frame of mind where they can justify this carry on in their heads, it just shows how far removed from society they are and that they should be locked away from ordinary decent folk.

At the moment we are trying to upgrade the farm, it's still in the 60-70's spec + little to no storage. But slowly we are improving things and converting sheds etc.
I am fed up with having to hide EVERYTHING for fear someone would come in an lift it. I would love to have a tidy properly laid out shed but every new tool or implement has to be hidden under plastic or behind timber or behind bales etc. I leave an old jeep blocking gates when I can.

Due to work (or lack of!) I spend most of my time overseas. When I get back I've forgotten where I've hidden half things!

These animals know full well that IF ) and a very big IF at that) they are caught they'll do little to no time and be off out again. And they can also call on a certain ethnic support group to back their "traditions" and "rights". Cry poor me when it suits them.

whelan1 · 31-07-2012 07:56AM

bbam wrote: »

It's just not on.
These scumbags are just sub human.

It's just impossible to understand how they get into the frame of mind where they can justify this carry on in their heads, it just shows how far removed from society they are and that they should be locked away from ordinary decent folk.

these people spent their whole time living in fear of this happening... they have big iron bars over their windows so someone cant break in etc, daughter lives next door to them.... they where gardening when the robbery occured... just very lucky they wheren't hurt

snowman707 · 31-07-2012 08:35AM

whelan1 wrote: »

these people spent their whole time living in fear of this happening... they have big iron bars over their windows so someone cant break in etc, daughter lives next door to them.... they where gardening when the robbery occured... just very lucky they wheren't hurt

unfortunately this is the way of life at present, we are presently building a little bungalow for when we move out of here, but when and if the time comes we would have not hesitation moving into something like Embury Close (Adare) or the Sue Ryder sheltered housing (nenagh)

I have friends/relations in both but unfortunately both are a bit far away from here,

hope your neighbours get over the ordeal and maybe it's not for you to interfere but maybe have a quite word with the daughter, re alarms, panic button, cctv,monitoring etc, a good range available now days and not too expensive.

whelan1 · 31-07-2012 08:42AM

snowman707 wrote: »

unfortunately this is the way of life at present, we are presently building a little bungalow for when we move out of here, but when and if the time comes we would have not hesitation moving into something like Embury Close (Adare) or the Sue Ryder sheltered housing (nenagh)

I have friends/relations in both but unfortunately both are a bit far away from here,

hope your neighbours get over the ordeal and maybe it's not for you to interfere but maybe have a quite word with the daughter, re alarms, panic button, cctv,monitoring etc, a good range available now days and not too expensive.

they have panic buttons .... just the way they where out in the garden and the thief/ thieves where very oppurtunistic... theytook her handbag- alot of sentimental stuff in it, this was in a press- and a box from a wardrobe in the bedroom.... my parent house is like fort knox... alarms etcall over the place.. we just have to be more vigilant

JohnBoy · 31-07-2012 09:45AM

Question on calves.....

(round figures for discussion purposes)

lets say a holstein freiesan/angus cross bull calf is worth 300 at 8 weeks of age....

what's he worth at one day old?

given the mortality risks, effort of training onto a bucket, and then the costs and labour actually rearing that calf what's a fair price to buyer and seller in an arrangement to buy all calves off a dairy farmer at one day old?

(small dairy farmer, working on her own and she is considering in the next few years to start buying in replacements instead of dealing with rearing calves)

Just something we're pondering for the future.

5live · 31-07-2012 09:55AM

JohnBoy wrote: »

Question on calves.....

(round figures for discussion purposes)

lets say a holstein freiesan/angus cross bull calf is worth 300 at 8 weeks of age....

what's he worth at one day old?

given the mortality risks, effort of training onto a bucket, and then the costs and labour actually rearing that calf what's a fair price to buyer and seller in an arrangement to buy all calves off a dairy farmer at one day old?

(small dairy farmer, working on her own and she is considering in the next few years to start buying in replacements instead of dealing with rearing calves)

Just something we're pondering for the future.

Weii you wont be able to get them at a day old firstly, john boy. With BVD testing and registration and waiting for cards, you are looking at week old at the earliest. And mortality in the first 2 weeks is the highest as well

JohnBoy · 31-07-2012 10:11AM

even if registered online, is it not possible to sell a day old calf?

I'd be looking to factor in the mortality/bvd risk into the price. the whole point is to save the dairy farmer the work in that two weeks.

by the time the dairy farmer has them for two weeks they've the hardest work done so dont benefit nearly as much from selling at that age versus rearing them for longer.

reilig · 31-07-2012 10:28AM

JohnBoy wrote: »

Question on calves.....

(round figures for discussion purposes)

lets say a holstein freiesan/angus cross bull calf is worth 300 at 8 weeks of age....

what's he worth at one day old?

given the mortality risks, effort of training onto a bucket, and then the costs and labour actually rearing that calf what's a fair price to buyer and seller in an arrangement to buy all calves off a dairy farmer at one day old?

(small dairy farmer, working on her own and she is considering in the next few years to start buying in replacements instead of dealing with rearing calves)

Just something we're pondering for the future.

Moving a calf off a farm on Day 1 is madness. You'll end up with a huge mortality rate. Calf needs to get colustrum, farmer needs to milk the colustrum from his cows for a number of days before "proper" milk starts to come and he can add it to the milk tank.

On a side note, my brother in law sold a lot of his calves this year. Most were Freisan x Angus. He got prices, from the farm gate of between €300 and €400 each at 3 to 4 weeks.

Last saturday, he sold bullocks because he is very short on grass. These were 24 to 28 month old bullocks. Full brothers of the calves sold above. He has kept them for 2 winters, fed a bit of meal etc.

He sold 20, and they averaged €840.

I think the seller of he suck calf is the winner these days - prices would need to rise an awful lot for the second and thirs owners to turn a profit.

JohnBoy · 31-07-2012 10:45AM

good point on the colustrum, but how would it currently work? the colustrum is milked into a bucket in the parlour and then taken to the calf house.

The colustrum could still be milked into a bucket and that bucket taken to the calf house on our farm, it'd be less than a mile away.

cloudroost · 31-07-2012 10:47AM

Reilig,
I know prices are down, but that seems very low for 2 yr+ cattle. What weight were they?
I'll have some angus to sell myself in a couple of months (~ 18months, should be 450->500 KGs by then) and I'd be expecting more than that....

reilig · 31-07-2012 11:38AM

cloudroost wrote: »

Reilig,
I know prices are down, but that seems very low for 2 yr+ cattle. What weight were they?
I'll have some angus to sell myself in a couple of months (~ 18months, should be 450->500 KGs by then) and I'd be expecting more than that....

They were off an angus bull and Freisan cows and were between 400 and 460kg. Not fattened very well, but they had ate a lot of stuff. A lot of bone and not a lot of muscle.

whelan1 · 31-07-2012 11:41AM

JohnBoy wrote: »

Question on calves.....

(round figures for discussion purposes)

lets say a holstein freiesan/angus cross bull calf is worth 300 at 8 weeks of age....

what's he worth at one day old?

given the mortality risks, effort of training onto a bucket, and then the costs and labour actually rearing that calf what's a fair price to buyer and seller in an arrangement to buy all calves off a dairy farmer at one day old?

(small dairy farmer, working on her own and she is considering in the next few years to start buying in replacements instead of dealing with rearing calves)

Just something we're pondering for the future.

only asking for trouble selling/buying at 1 day old imo... 10 days would be the earliest around here

johngalway · 31-07-2012 11:43AM

Great day here, we badly needed a shot of rain................................

.......................................... :rolleyes:

bbam · 31-07-2012 12:27PM

whelan1 wrote: »

only asking for trouble selling/buying at 1 day old imo... 10 days would be the earliest around here

Buying day Old calves would be madness. I would also question the practice on animal welfare grounds since it would have such a high mortality rate, it would be depressing!
Three/four weeks works well, the buyer is getting an animal that has past the worst times and the seller is getting a bit more revenue.

JohnBoy · 31-07-2012 12:40PM

whelan1 wrote: »

only asking for trouble selling/buying at 1 day old imo... 10 days would be the earliest around here

bbam wrote: »

Buying day Old calves would be madness. I would also question the practice on animal welfare grounds since it would have such a high mortality rate, it would be depressing!
Three/four weeks works well, the buyer is getting an animal that has past the worst times and the seller is getting a bit more revenue.

I'm trying to figure out if the whole thing could be a runner.

1) can the mortality issues be managed?
ie is it that big a deal to move a calf less than a mile by trailer at one day old? hardly much different to calving outdoors and picking the calves up with a quad/trailer.

if the colustrum can be similarly transported then what additional issues exist that dont equally exist on the dairy farm? is it all down to the stress of the transport?

There would be no other calves on the farm so the bought in calves would be going into sheds with their fellow calves from the same herd, no different to what they would do on the dairy farm.

2) are their regulatory issues with selling calves that quickly?

3) how much cheaper should the day old calf be than an 8 week old one to cover the costs, the labour and the risk factors.

In the normal run of events, three-four weeks does work well, but the seller is a woman in her fifties, farming alone, looking to simplify her operation, step one will be to sell all calves and buy in replacements. What I'm exploring is could there be a second step to sell those calves at a day old, and hence eliminate the considerable amount of work involved with them.

Kovu · 31-07-2012 12:46PM

If anyone here uses National Irish Banking Online, I'd advise you to check your accounts pronto.
They got hacked and a lot of money has been taken from accounts.
My parents & two uncles all had nearly €1000 taken from them. :mad:

whelan1 · 31-07-2012 12:48PM

ok, so calf is born .... you register it on line... you can not get movement permit til it is registered.... you have to wait for bvd results- normally 3-5 days .... so realistically or by the rules you cannot move the calf til its around 5-7 days old....

bbam · 31-07-2012 12:51PM

JohnBoy wrote: »

I'm trying to figure out if the whole thing could be a runner.

1) can the mortality issues be managed?
ie is it that big a deal to move a calf less than a mile by trailer at one day old? hardly much different to calving outdoors and picking the calves up with a quad/trailer.

if the colustrum can be similarly transported then what additional issues exist that dont equally exist on the dairy farm? is it all down to the stress of the transport?

There would be no other calves on the farm so the bought in calves would be going into sheds with their fellow calves from the same herd, no different to what they would do on the dairy farm.

2) are their regulatory issues with selling calves that quickly?

3) how much cheaper should the day old calf be than an 8 week old one to cover the costs, the labour and the risk factors.

In the normal run of events, three-four weeks does work well, but the seller is a woman in her fifties, farming alone, looking to simplify her operation, step one will be to sell all calves and buy in replacements. What I'm exploring is could there be a second step to sell those calves at a day old, and hence eliminate the considerable amount of work involved with them.

How about the new compulsory BVD testing from Jan-1 ?
I'm not well read in the fine point but I'd be asking if they can be moved before the BVD result is back, AFAIK this will take two weeks.

whelan1 · 31-07-2012 01:08PM

bbam wrote: »

How about the new compulsory BVD testing from Jan-1 ?
I'm not well read in the fine point but I'd be asking if they can be moved before the BVD result is back, AFAIK this will take two weeks.

normally 3-5 days but calf has to be registered first... i get them tested with enfer.... op could this woman not leave the calves on the cows for 10 days and then sell?

JohnBoy · 31-07-2012 01:15PM

So you cant get a movement permit without the BVD test being back....

well if that is the case it'd be that idea scuppered so.

You'll have to forgive my constant questioning, but I always like to undstand why something cant/wont work, as opposed to just accepting that it cant/wont work, you learn nothing that way.

Theoretically we could "buy" the calves, but leave them on her farm for a few weeks and rear them initially in her sheds, twould solve her wish to get rid of the work, but would have the potential to get messey and as soon as you start to bring calves home then all of a sudden you're working on two seperate farms.

oh well, on to the next plan.

5live · 31-07-2012 01:18PM

JohnBoy wrote: »

even if registered online, is it not possible to sell a day old calf?

I'd be looking to factor in the mortality/bvd risk into the price. the whole point is to save the dairy farmer the work in that two weeks.

by the time the dairy farmer has them for two weeks they've the hardest work done so dont benefit nearly as much from selling at that age versus rearing them for longer.

No. You still need the passport and a movement permit to actually change hands and those are only available from about 5 days at the very earliest.

JohnBoy · 31-07-2012 01:21PM

whelan1 wrote: »

could this woman not leave the calves on the cows for 10 days and then sell?

interesting idea. how much milk income would you forefit in the first ten days?

would surely be the best start for the calves too.

bbam · 31-07-2012 01:23PM

JohnBoy wrote: »

So you cant get a movement permit without the BVD test being back....

well if that is the case it'd be that idea scuppered so.

You'll have to forgive my constant questioning, but I always like to undstand why something cant/wont work, as opposed to just accepting that it cant/wont work, you learn nothing that way.

Theoretically we could "buy" the calves, but leave them on her farm for a few weeks and rear them initially in her sheds, twould solve her wish to get rid of the work, but would have the potential to get messey and as soon as you start to bring calves home then all of a sudden you're working on two seperate farms.

oh well, on to the next plan.

How about contract rearing them for her on her facilities?
Again you wouldn't be able to move them as day olds due to paperwork but you could use her facilities if she has some.

Or

Ye could lease the whole thing?

whelan1 · 31-07-2012 01:25PM

JohnBoy wrote: »

interesting idea. how much milk income would you forefit in the first ten days?

would surely be the best start for the calves too.

i leave my calves on cow for 10 days... this is following years of hardship with every disease going... gives calves a great head start... mycows are vaccinated and calves have to get biestings for a week anyways... cows milk has to be kept for 5 days after calving anyways wiith antibiotic withdrawal.... i am happy to forfeit the milk productuion for a few days for the sake of a healthy calf

just do it · 31-07-2012 01:46PM

JohnBoy wrote: »

What I'm exploring is could there be a second step to sell those calves at a day old, and hence eliminate the considerable amount of work involved with them.

You mention she's only 1 mile away. You could agree a price/ arrangement for the first few weeks. Keep them at her place and you do the work. She supplies the milk and take them away in groups at 3/4wo. There's an extra benefit in that they will already be used to you and therefore the stress associated with the move will be reduced.

JohnBoy · 31-07-2012 01:52PM

bbam wrote: »

How about contract rearing them for her on her facilities?
Again you wouldn't be able to move them as day olds due to paperwork but you could use her facilities if she has some.

Or

Ye could lease the whole thing?

I think any sort of contract rearing would give rise to too much potential hassle to be honest, the cleaner the break the better.

couldnt lease off her, she's leasing off us, we're only starting out.

whelan1 wrote: »

i leave my calves on cow for 10 days... this is following years of hardship with every disease going... gives calves a great head start... mycows are vaccinated and calves have to get biestings for a week anyways... cows milk has to be kept for 5 days after calving anyways wiith antibiotic withdrawal.... i am happy to forfeit the milk productuion for a few days for the sake of a healthy calf

would that be the norm in the dairy sector? I thought calves were normally seperated from the cows after the first feeding.

JohnBoy · 31-07-2012 01:54PM

just do it wrote: »

You mention she's only 1 mile away. You could agree a price/ arrangement for the first few weeks. Keep them at her place and you do the work. She supplies the milk and take them away in groups at 3/4wo. There's an extra benefit in that they will already be used to you and therefore the stress associated with the move will be reduced.

you could do that alright, but it's potentially a lot more messy than a straightforward buy and take away arrangement.

I like ms whelan's idea the best.

Somthing to ruminate over...

just do it · 31-07-2012 01:57PM

JohnBoy wrote: »

You'll have to forgive my constant questioning, but I always like to undstand why something cant/wont work, as opposed to just accepting that it cant/wont work, you learn nothing that way.

It's an interesting one JohnBoy so keep asking! How about teasing it out with her a bit more. What specific jobs does she and doesn't she like? Maybe if it's the feeding and cleaning out ye could come to an arrangement on that e.g. you get so many calves at 4-6 weeks old for work done.

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