orange provocation

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 8:58am

Hi,
I am the author of the viral videos on youtube (“Burning Polish and Irish flags”) about British xenophobic / sectarian orgy across the Belfast. I was quiet until British / Loyalists / Protestants decided to cross very sensitive line – burning our flag which represent history longer than 1000 years. WE (Polish) don’t give a f**k about your local traditions of spreading HATE towards other nations, but when you do the act which we have seen during Nazi occupation prior 1945, you went one step too far.

Time to act and I promise, this will be the last time you have done it.
I was quiet when kids damaged my cars numerous times.
I was quiet when little bastards threw garbage, eggs at my home.
I was quiet when everywhere you go you are pushed to the side for the benefit of local society.
I was quiet when drive by thugs broke windows in my friend’s car.
I was quiet when joy riders demolished my friends cars numerous time.
I was quiet when my wife was verbally abused by the kids age 7-12.
I can go on and on with listening nationalistic and / colonialistic tactics used on myself or my friends.

A burning polish flag is something new in Belfast this year and it really looks like an organised action, where “order” came from above and sprinkled downwards. It is clear as the sun.

I have tried to call local police – useless as usual. Empty promises, I have tried to react among my closest neighbours (organiser of event live across the road) – no joy. My national flag have been burned in front of my house...

Because of that I am in the process of:
Spreading the news across the web in Germany, Poland, Ireland and UK.
Polish Embassy is informed about this unlawful act.
Polish Association has been informed.
Polish politicians, prime minister and president received the note about this provocation. In Poland it is the “Hate Crime” punishable with 6 months in jail.
Belfast council has been informed.
Polish and British newspapers recieved the message.
Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, G+ and many other services are used to campaign against such acts.
And many, many more

2 days = 2000 visitors so far and I am just getting started.
THE ENTIRE Polish community (2nd biggest after Irish) is outraged and I am the internet voice of it rage. Observe the newspapers...

ruthloss · 14-07-2012 9:08am

As my old dad used to say, "there's nothing about them Orange Marches that a few stratigically placed Slurry Tanks could'nt sort out"!!

ardmacha · 14-07-2012 9:15am

Tommypolack

Welcome to the club!

Qualitymark · 14-07-2012 9:22am

Surely Orange parades and nationalist marches in Northern Ireland are the physical equivalent of trolls on the internet. Shouldn't people take the same don't-feed-the-troll approach and just ignore the idiots?

billybudd · 14-07-2012 9:28am

God will punish them and god will be right!!

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 9:48am

Qualitymark wrote: »

Surely Orange parades and nationalist marches in Northern Ireland are the physical equivalent of trolls on the internet. Shouldn't people take the same don't-feed-the-troll approach and just ignore the idiots?

Once they see that they can do whatever they like, there will be no end to abuse. Resistance can make them think twice before they act.
Most of British colonies probably had the same point of view, eeh, let them get in, let them take our resources, let them take our land, our women, let them set their own people in foreign countries governments, etc.
There is no end to hyenas / predators.

Qualitymark · 14-07-2012 9:51am

TommyPolack wrote: »

let them take our women

Wasn't aware that women weren't part of the polity. What's this "our"?

fergiesfolly · 14-07-2012 10:00am

getz wrote: »

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Because they'd rather stay here and pledge allegiance to a Britain that doesn't want them and an empire that no longer exists.
Lets face it. No one ever accused Loyalists of intelligence.

so lets do what we always do in this situation, riot,burn down shops,set fire to cars,attack police with petrol bombs and guns,all in our own community,then complain that no businesses will invest in our area,all this because we dont like orange band marching in our area.now who are the idiots.

I don't recall at any time telling anyone to resort to violence.
I can understand why people who feel marginalised, ignored and brow beaten in their own country might seek to physically attack their own surroundings, but I wouldn't condone it.

alastair · 14-07-2012 10:05am

TommyPolack wrote: »

Once they see that they can do whatever they like, there will be no end to abuse. Resistance can make them think twice before they act.
Most of British colonies probably had the same point of view, eeh, let them get in, let them take our resources, let them take our land, our women, let them set their own people in foreign countries governments, etc.
There is no end to hyenas / predators.

British colonies? Hyenas? I think you've lost perspective. The grief you're getting from kids relating to vandalism and abuse etc needs sorting, and the best of luck with that - the burning flag stuff (Irish, Polish, or otherwise) is a red herring. Leave that sensitivity to the Americans.

Chuck Stone · 14-07-2012 10:08am

TommyPolack wrote: »

THE ENTIRE Polish community (2nd biggest after Irish) is outraged and I am the internet voice of it rage. Observe the newspapers...

Spread the word. Let's hope we can embarrass these trolls into going back under the bridges they came from.

alastair · 14-07-2012 10:12am

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Spread the word. Let's hope we can embarrass these trolls into going back under the bridges they came from.

Yeah - because a response to their provocation is really going to embarrass them. :rolleyes:

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 10:18am

I know the history very well and I can assure you that women (as well as men) were a part of the suffer every time new British colonies was established and in Polish case, every time our neighbours tried to take our freedom away.
During the recent 200 years, Poland was “Free” ONLY for the last 23 years. Thru two world wars, we managed to get rid of the occupiers after 123 years of being wiped out from the maps of Europe. Oh yes, on history lessons we had studied it very, very carefully.
From current events – do you really think that British / American (goes hand-in-hand) invaders / occupiers in the Middle East shoot hundreds of thousands of people and avoid women suffering? Looking at it realistically, “I don’t think so m8”.
What I meant in my previous note is that it STARTS from burning flags, and then pressure infects other aspects of life and where will it all end? On taking our women??? Or maybe KKK?
Incident with burning flags (regardless of nation) is just a start or provocation. Then, just like a cancer or rust, hate spread to other aspects of life.

I will be honest; I didn’t care when for the last 8 years, every year I looked at this sectarian orgy. I said to myself – it is not my conflict.
From the moment, when I noticed my national flag at stake in front of my bedroom window, I realised how Irish must feel during this “Carnival of hate”. Since Polish flag landed on the bonfire, it became personal...
Who’s with me?

Chuck Stone · 14-07-2012 10:24am

alastair wrote: »

Yeah - because a response to their provocation is really going to embarrass them. :rolleyes:

They're doing a fantastic job of making themselves look like a bunch of hateful droolers.

Such provocation will certainly distance moderate Unionist people and that's a good thing. Let's hope that the moderate people of the north become the decision makers of the future.

Polish folk don't deserve that crap. They've come here to make a better life for themselves just as multitudes of Irish (both Protestant and Catholic) did.

alastair · 14-07-2012 10:29am

Chuck Stone wrote: »

They're doing a fantastic job of making themselves look like a bunch of hateful droolers.

Such provocation will certainly distance moderate Unionist people and that's a good thing. Let's hope that the moderate people of the north become the decision makers of the future.

Polish folk don't deserve that crap. They've come here to make a better life for themselves just as multitudes of Irish (both Protestant and Catholic) did.

No-one deserves that crap - but that doesn't imply that the lads who drape the flags on the bonfires etc are going to respond to an outraged response with embarrassment. That's what they're seeking in the first place!

Moderate people of all hues in NI are already distanced from these antics - that job is pretty much done (hence the term 'moderate').

Chuck Stone · 14-07-2012 10:30am

TommyPolack wrote: »

“Carnival of hate”.

Perfect description.

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 10:30am

alastair wrote: »

British colonies? Hyenas? I think you've lost perspective. The grief you're getting from kids relating to vandalism and abuse etc needs sorting, and the best of luck with that - the burning flag stuff (Irish, Polish, or otherwise) is a red herring. Leave that sensitivity to the Americans.

What are parents of those kids doing during “slap in a face” to other EU countries? Singing, drinking, dancing and taking pictures of violation of International Law.
If you think that THIS have no implication on kids future behavior, think again.
Parents themselves are indoctrinating kids from the very young age and what do you expect? Healthy society in EU community? There were hundreds of people and no one reacted to this ACT OF HATE.
No matter where you look and how you want to excuse it, burning national flag is an act of hate. Period!

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 10:36am

ANSWER THIS ONE, PLEASE.
WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF I GO NOW AND BURN BRITISH FLAGS FROM THE STREETS OF EAST BELFAST?

Since it is OK to burn my flag, it MUST BE OK to do the same in an opposite direction.

getz · 14-07-2012 10:40am

TommyPolack wrote: »

What are parents of those kids doing during “slap in a face” to other EU countries? Singing, drinking, dancing and taking pictures of violation of International Law.
If you think that THIS have no implication on kids future behavior, think again.
Parents themselves are indoctrinating kids from the very young age and what do you expect? Healthy society in EU community? There were hundreds of people and no one reacted to this ACT OF HATE.
No matter where you look and how you want to excuse it, burning national flag is an act of hate. Period!

get over yourself flags are just a political piece of rag,only people matter in this life,leave the brainwashed yes that is what they are,both sides of the commmunity have their idiots,

Rasheed · 14-07-2012 10:44am

TommyPolack wrote: »

ANSWER THIS ONE, PLEASE.
WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF I GO NOW AND BURN BRITISH FLAGS FROM THE STREETS OF EAST BELFAST?

Since it is OK to burn my flag, it MUST BE OK to do the same in an opposite direction.

I don't get it, why are they burning Polish flags? Am I missing something? What have ye ever done to them?? You are right, it is a hateful thing to do.

philologos · 14-07-2012 10:45am

woodoo wrote: »

And them descended from scottish planters. The irony is hilarious. Bunch of thickos.

This is a silly comment.

Many people who were born and raised in the Republic are descended from Scottish and English planters. In fact, I'd hazard a guess and say that what we consider being Irish is actually a mix of ethnicities over the ages. Someone settled Ireland at some point.

getz wrote: »

get over yourself flags are just a political piece of rag,only people matter in this life,leave the brainwashed yes that is what they are,both sides of the commmunity have their idiots,

I'm not hugely nationalistic and believe strongly that nations are only social constructs. However, I can understand that if you burn someones flag it could be seen as being provocative and hateful to another person or another person's identity.

Chuck Stone · 14-07-2012 10:45am

TommyPolack wrote: »

Since it is OK to burn my flag, it MUST BE OK to do the same in an opposite direction.

Na, then you'll be just as bad as them. They don't represent the vast majority of British people anyway.

Their burning of the Polish flag is not a British thing it's just a hate thing by an extreme and diminishing minority up north. Most of the population of Britain would love to see the back of them imo.

guinnessdrinker · 14-07-2012 10:45am

I know burning Irish flags on loyalist bonfires is considered the norm but why the burning of the Polish flags?

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 10:45am

Wikipedia
"Flag desecration (or flag abuse) is a term applied to various acts that intentionally destroy, damage or mutilate a flag in public, most often a national flag. Often, such action is intended to make a political point against a country or its policies. Some countries have laws forbidding methods of destruction (such as burning in public) or forbidding particular uses (such as for commercial purposes); such laws may distinguish between desecration of the country's own national flag and flags of other countries. Some countries have laws protecting the right to burn a flag as an expression of free speech."

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 11:03am

philologos wrote: »

However, I can understand that if you burn someones flag it could be seen as being provocative and hateful to another person or another person's identity.

Thank you, so we have at least one person who gets what I am trying to say here.
Just because YOU have some silly “hate festival”, it doesn’t mean that you are allowed to offend other nations which have ABSOLUTELLY NOTHING to do with your waste of time in celebrating hate towards “catholic” nations.
Last year Belfast had “0” similar incidents. This year it is a countless number of issues across Belfast.
I put my money on “organised sponsored by The City action against Polish community”. Yes organisers receive extra funds to purchase flags with intention to burn them at stake. I wonder if they doubled the amount this year to invite Polish society to your irrational conflict.

WATCH THIS PHOTO and tell me that this is NOT spreading “hate” towards foreigners - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/twelfth/police-officers-injured-in-ardoyne-violence-after-orange-order-march-16184467.html?action=Popup&ino=239

alastair · 14-07-2012 11:06am

TommyPolack wrote: »

Wikipedia
"Flag desecration (or flag abuse) is a term applied to various acts that intentionally destroy, damage or mutilate a flag in public, most often a national flag. Often, such action is intended to make a political point against a country or its policies. Some countries have laws forbidding methods of destruction (such as burning in public) or forbidding particular uses (such as for commercial purposes); such laws may distinguish between desecration of the country's own national flag and flags of other countries. Some countries have laws protecting the right to burn a flag as an expression of free speech."

They're not making any political point about Poland. They're engaged in the usual kneejerk reaction to anyone outside the fold that impinges on 'their' turf - Nationalists, Chinese, Poles, Roma, etc. If there was an influx of Peruvians to Belfast, it'd be their flag up on the bonfire too. 'International law' etc is kind of missing the point - beyond 'this is a local shop, for local people' they've no real political agenda.

getz · 14-07-2012 11:10am

TommyPolack wrote: »

Thank you, so we have at least one person who gets what I am trying to say here.
Just because YOU have some silly “hate festival”, it doesn’t mean that you are allowed to offend other nations which have ABSOLUTELLY NOTHING to do with your waste of time in celebrating hate towards “catholic” nations.
Last year Belfast had “0” similar incidents. This year it is a countless number of issues across Belfast.
I put my money on “organised sponsored by The City action against Polish community”. Yes organisers receive extra funds to purchase flags with intention to burn them at stake. I wonder if they doubled the amount this year to invite Polish society to your irrational conflict.

WATCH THIS PHOTO and tell me that this is NOT spreading “hate” towards foreigners - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/twelfth/police-officers-injured-in-ardoyne-violence-after-orange-order-march-16184467.html?action=Popup&ino=239

so we have it,in your eyes northern irish republicans are foreigners,

Immaculate Pasta · 14-07-2012 11:11am

guinnessdrinker wrote: »

I know burning Irish flags on loyalist bonfires is considered the norm but why the burning of the Polish flags?

They're all Catholics innit.

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 11:11am

I refer you to a very nice and comprehensive article:

Reconciling Freedom of Expression and Flag Desecration:
a Comparative Study by Kabir Duggal and Shreyas Sridhar

"III. Understanding Flag Desecration And Its Significance Politically
“A flag is a necessity for all nations. Millions have died for it. It is no doubt a kind of
idolatry which it would be a sin to destroy. For, a flag represents an ideal the unfurling of
the Union Jack evokes in the English breast sentiments whose strength it is difficult to
measure. The Stars and Stripes mean a world to the Americans. The Star and the Crescent
will call forth the best bravery in Islam.” - Mahatma Gandhi"

But somehow most of people want to convince other that “it is just a tradition to burn foreigners flags”.

Sicko

TommyPolack · 14-07-2012 11:20am

getz wrote: »

so we have it,in your eyes northern irish republicans are foreigners,

I haven't said that.
Those who live and work in the Republic of Ireland and come to NI, technically are foreigners (ROI and UK are separate contries). Those republicans who live in NI are not.
That is how the law see it. I see it that “We The People” should have no restrictions to travel. Classification of people on “foreigners” and “locals” these days is very outdated and create tensions.
Our societies are heavily mixed and looking at Burning National Flags issue as “They” and “We” is childish.
How about to stop offending each other and live in peace, without unnecessary provocations from “Hosts” of our emigration.

Happyman42 · 14-07-2012 11:22am

alastair wrote: »

They're not making any political point about Poland. They're engaged in the usual kneejerk reaction to anyone outside the fold that impinges on 'their' turf - Nationalists, Chinese, Poles, Roma, etc. If there was an influx of Peruvians to Belfast, it'd be their flag up on the bonfire too. 'International law' etc is kind of missing the point - beyond 'this is a local shop, for local people' they've no real political agenda.

You shouldn't really be commenting when you either ignore or don't know the nuances.
Polish flags are burned because of the Catholic history of that country. Indeed had the bigots remained in oppressive power in the north, a special kind of welcome would have been reserved for our Polish friends.
This sectarian organisation sees anything Catholic as a threat and worthy of their special bigotted attention.
They will **** on the Crown too if it prevents them from protecting their archaic way of praising the lord.

orange provocation

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