RTE1: Creedon's Cities - except Waterford!

starch4ser · 10-07-2012 5:40pm

they left out kilkenny city as well

comeraghs wrote: »

This complete disregard for Waterford really pisses me off!

to be fair, every city outside dublin suffers this to some extent. rte is completely dublin centric

johnnykilo · 10-07-2012 7:53pm

Just saw this on John Creedon's Twitter account:

Thanks so much for the kind words re CreedonsCities.Genuinely appreciate it.3 more to go and who knows Kilkny,Watrfd,Bfast, Derry nxt year ?

Although having watched last nights show I couldn't believe how cringey it was, plus what a strange unlikable presenter John Creedon is. The show was a small step above Nationwide and who ever decided to show it in a Prime Time slot on RTE 1 must be mad!

7upfree · 11-07-2012 5:12am

johnnykilo wrote: »

Just saw this on John Creedon's Twitter account:

Although having watched last nights show I couldn't believe how cringey it was, plus what a strange unlikable presenter John Creedon is. The show was a small step above Nationwide and who ever decided to show it in a Prime Time slot on RTE 1 must be mad!

At least Nationwide gives Waterford City good coverage. Can these people even count? Three to go: Waterford, KK, Derry, Belfast? Another fobbing off. Two of them are outside the State.

7upfree · 11-07-2012 5:16am

starch4ser wrote: »

they left out kilkenny city as well

Have you read the first few pages of this thread???

starch4ser wrote: »

to be fair, every city outside dublin suffers this to some extent. rte is completely dublin centric

Not in this instant.

Teebor15 · 11-07-2012 11:39am

Thanks so much for the kind words re CreedonsCities.Genuinely appreciate it.3 more to go and who knows Kilkny,Watrfd,Bfast, Derry nxt year ?

Can these people even count? Three to go: Waterford, KK, Derry, Belfast? Another fobbing off. Two of them are outside the State.

Can you even read?? One program / city has been shown. so THREE more in the series to go. Then who knows Kilkenny, Waterford, Belfast, Derry next year.

Its so obvious what he is saying its ridiculous.

Johnny Johnson · 11-07-2012 12:29pm

7upfree wrote: »

Can these people even count?

Can you read?

7upfree · 11-07-2012 1:20pm

Teebor15 wrote: »

Can you even read?? One program / city has been shown. so THREE more in the series to go. Then who knows Kilkenny, Waterford, Belfast, Derry next year.

Its so obvious what he is saying its ridiculous.

Doesn't matter a damn. He's just backtracking. RTE have seriously messed up here. And they know it.

membersonly · 11-07-2012 1:22pm

7upfree wrote: »

Doesn't matter a damn. He's just backtracking. RTE have seriously messed up here. And they know it.

How so?

road_high · 11-07-2012 1:29pm

starch4ser wrote: »

they left out kilkenny city as well

to be fair, every city outside dublin suffers this to some extent. rte is completely dublin centric

I'd say it's very west of Ireland centric to be honest. Every second presenter is from the bloody Gaeltacht!! Who is there from South Leinster/south east?
Katherine Thomas and Aobheann Ni Chuillen (Cullen) are two I can only think of off hand. Not exactly huge profilers. Is there anybody from Waterford? They adore Galway and Connemara on RTE and TnaG is even based over there!!
The whole south East is an afterthought as far as RTE are concerned to be honest. Cork/Kerry seem to punch above their weight also on RTE. I guess as the countries second biggest city and population that is natural (much as it pains me to say it!).

Green Hornet · 11-07-2012 1:42pm

Lads, this whole thread is full of paranoia..........I dont think for a moment that RTE have any agenda against Waterford or anywhere else for that matter.

The fact is that Waterford is just not considered significant enough to have a program in this series. He's already said that Waterford and Kilkenny etc. may be included in another series.

merlante · 11-07-2012 3:35pm

Green Hornet wrote: »

The fact is that Waterford is just not considered significant enough to have a program in this series. He's already said that Waterford and Kilkenny etc. may be included in another series.

The questions are,
a) Whether what locations RTE considers 'significant enough' actually matters, when it has a mandate to be objective and impartial, as set out in the Broadcasting act of 2009. I *personally* would hold the view that leaving out one city out of the five is being partial to a particular view that RTE itself holds (and therefore not impartial), as opposed to an objective representation of reality. People can argue this, but this is my opinion.
b) Whether RTE is basing its idea of 'significance' (if that's what it is) on objective measures, such as demographics and actual administrative and political significance; or whether it is, consciously or not, basing its idea of 'significance' on its own internal consensus, which does not accurately reflect the reality.

So there are two things there, one is a question about whether RTE was right to pick and choose a city to leave in or out and the other whether RTE did so on the basis of a certain bias. Both of these criticisms are at least credible, and worthy of discussion, in my opinion, whether people go along with them or not.

7upfree · 11-07-2012 3:50pm

membersonly wrote: »

7upfree wrote: »

Doesn't matter a damn. He's just backtracking. RTE have seriously messed up here. And they know it.

How so?

If you note in the original reply from RTE there was only the mention of not including Waterford or Kilkenny no mention of the cities in the north. Now that complaints are being made he is trying to add cities from the north to the list to somehow justify his actions. At the end of the day the title is Creedons Cities I'm sure he has some say in what goes into it. He was damn well happy to promote our local talent on the all Ireland talent show 3 years ago.

If the show is about all the cities in the Island of Ireland than ok plausible explanation although why you'd leave out the oldest is beyond me.

Although from the initial reply from RTE it appears that they were simply only considering the cities in the republic of Ireland and under the local government act 2001 there are only 5 recognised cities in Ireland. So why make a programme and leave out only one.

Even if you did include Kilkenny as a city it seems a bit silly making a four part series that could have easily been a six part and considering they gave it a prime time spot they obviously thought it was going to do well, so you'd imagine they wanted to make it longer not shorter.

At the end of the day the main point if the thread is that the south easy as a whole was ignored. The only city under the government act excluded was Waterford but leaving acts etc out of it the only 2 cities (kilkenny being allowed to call itself a city) excluded are both in the south east.

If we don't stick up for our city then it will simply become history. Evidently our broadcasters don't care about it but us the people of this great city do and we will fight to get recognised for positive things rather than redundancies or crime ( which seems to be the only time rte take an interest)

membersonly · 11-07-2012 6:24pm

7upfree wrote: »

If you note in the original reply from RTE there was only the mention of not including Waterford or Kilkenny no mention of the cities in the north. Now that complaints are being made he is trying to add cities from the north to the list to somehow justify his actions. At the end of the day the title is Creedons Cities I'm sure he has some say in what goes into it. He was damn well happy to promote our local talent on the all Ireland talent show 3 years ago.

If the show is about all the cities in the Island of Ireland than ok plausible explanation although why you'd leave out the oldest is beyond me.

Although from the initial reply from RTE it appears that they were simply only considering the cities in the republic of Ireland and under the local government act 2001 there are only 5 recognised cities in Ireland. So why make a programme and leave out only one.

Even if you did include Kilkenny as a city it seems a bit silly making a four part series that could have easily been a six part and considering they gave it a prime time spot they obviously thought it was going to do well, so you'd imagine they wanted to make it longer not shorter.

At the end of the day the main point if the thread is that the south easy as a whole was ignored. The only city under the government act excluded was Waterford but leaving acts etc out of it the only 2 cities (kilkenny being allowed to call itself a city) excluded are both in the south east.

If we don't stick up for our city then it will simply become history. Evidently our broadcasters don't care about it but us the people of this great city do and we will fight to get recognised for positive things rather than redundancies or crime ( which seems to be the only time rte take an interest)

Yeah but how have they messed up like? How will it affect them? Literally no one outside of Waterford cares about this.

merlante · 11-07-2012 6:46pm

membersonly wrote: »

Yeah but how have they messed up like? How will it affect them? Literally no one outside of Waterford cares about this.

See my post above for how they (may have/probably) messed up.

Given that what they've done is leave out one city, of course only people in Waterford care about it. What's your point?

7upfree · 11-07-2012 7:16pm

membersonly wrote: »

Yeah but how have they messed up like? How will it affect them? Literally no one outside of Waterford cares about this.

Everyone inside does....are you grasping this yet?

abouttobebanned · 11-07-2012 7:44pm

Not everyone. I genuinely have more pressing things to be worrying about. I cringe everytime I see people getting excited about this.

Green Hornet · 11-07-2012 7:50pm

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Not everyone. I genuinely have more pressing things to be worrying about. I cringe everytime I see people getting excited about this.

Yep, same here. To me, it seems to be cropping up in threads all the time and I just think to myself "Here we go again".

membersonly · 11-07-2012 8:20pm

7upfree wrote: »

Everyone inside does....are you grasping this yet?

Nope, cos I'm inside and couldn't care less. I wouldn't even know about it if I wasn't a member on here. I would say that 90% of people in Waterford don't have a clue about it, and wouldn't care if they did. They have much more important things to worry about.

Seriously, tis a relatively nice evening, grab a 7up and chill out

merlante · 11-07-2012 8:28pm

Green Hornet wrote: »

Yep, same here. To me, it seems to be cropping up in threads all the time and I just think to myself "Here we go again".

And then the usual suspects come on whinging about people whinging, and I think "here we go again", now the thread is 3 times longer and just .. will .. not .. die.

Pity people couldn't just have their gripe about Waterford being omitted from Creedon's cities and leave it at that. Instead, we have a 6+ page thread. Why? Because people *need* to define *again* what a city is, because people need to defend Kilkenny against illusory attacks and because people who have absolutely no interest in the topic continuously whinge and complain about other people having an interest in the topic. If the topic doesn't appeal to you, stop reading, or at least stop replying.

fricatus · 11-07-2012 8:55pm

membersonly wrote: »

Nope, cos I'm inside and couldn't care less. I wouldn't even know about it if I wasn't a member on here. I would say that 90% of people in Waterford don't have a clue about it, and wouldn't care if they did. They have much more important things to worry about.

Where you're missing the point is that this is sort of like the zero-tolerance approach to policing. You don't allow a single wall to have graffitti or a single window to be broken, because they create the atmosphere. The little things matter, like tiny raindrops all gathering to a torrent.

Our problem is not that Waterford is left out of Creedon's Cities, or off the TV3 weather map. It's that the cumulative effect of not being mentioned, not being listed alongside the other cities in countless lists, is that we drop out of the national consciousness, so when say a business decides it wants to expand out of Dublin, its decision-makers think "where should we locate? Galway, Cork, Limerick?" rather than "Galway, Cork, Limerick and Waterford?". Now we've been forgotten about for a five- or six-job investment!

On then it goes, and when national decision-makers are deciding where to put the VEC HQ, they don't think of Waterford as a major city, they just think "Waterford, Wexford, where were we on holidays again? Wexford!" or something daft like that.

And it's only when you get an insight into how such decisions are made that you understand that there is often very little analysis. Usually it's "cover Munster from Cork, Leinster from Dublin and Connacht from Galway" rather than any sort of serious demographic analysis of population catchments.

Why do you think we don't have a university? We have a similar population catchment to Galway, yet they have a Uni and an IT. They have a higher profile, which is the result of years and years of pushing their case and getting people into positions of influence and using that influence.

Do you think Galway would have been left out of this programme? It would in its fcuk, because Galway has the largest concentration of media outside of Dublin! RTE has about 10 times the number of staff there that it does in Waterford or Limerick.

We absolutely, positively need to be on the agenda in this country. Waterford needs to be at the forefront of people's minds when they think of Ireland's cities, and something like this programme influences that. So yes it does matter.

abouttobebanned · 11-07-2012 9:26pm

Waterford needs to do more to stand out from the crowd, and in fairness, it is starting to try. The monstrosity that is the flour mills opposite the Quay needs to be seriously looked at. Getting people back into town after 6pm...parking...improving the nightlife and social scene...there are lots that we need to do if we want to compete with the country's big cities.

Silentcorner · 11-07-2012 9:50pm

fricatus wrote: »

Where you're missing the point is that this is sort of like the zero-tolerance approach to policing. You don't allow a single wall to have graffitti or a single window to be broken, because they create the atmosphere. The little things matter, like tiny raindrops all gathering to a torrent.

Our problem is not that Waterford is left out of Creedon's Cities, or off the TV3 weather map. It's that the cumulative effect of not being mentioned, not being listed alongside the other cities in countless lists, is that we drop out of the national consciousness, so when say a business decides it wants to expand out of Dublin, its decision-makers think "where should we locate? Galway, Cork, Limerick?" rather than "Galway, Cork, Limerick and Waterford?". Now we've been forgotten about for a five- or six-job investment!

On then it goes, and when national decision-makers are deciding where to put the VEC HQ, they don't think of Waterford as a major city, they just think "Waterford, Wexford, where were we on holidays again? Wexford!" or something daft like that.

And it's only when you get an insight into how such decisions are made that you understand that there is often very little analysis. Usually it's "cover Munster from Cork, Leinster from Dublin and Connacht from Galway" rather than any sort of serious demographic analysis of population catchments.

Why do you think we don't have a university? We have a similar population catchment to Galway, yet they have a Uni and an IT. They have a higher profile, which is the result of years and years of pushing their case and getting people into positions of influence and using that influence.

Do you think Galway would have been left out of this programme? It would in its fcuk, because Galway has the largest concentration of media outside of Dublin! RTE has about 10 times the number of staff there that it does in Waterford or Limerick.

We absolutely, positively need to be on the agenda in this country. Waterford needs to be at the forefront of people's minds when they think of Ireland's cities, and something like this programme influences that. So yes it does matter.

Hope you don't mind my posting in your forum but came accross this thread and the above quote is IMO absolutely spot on

Waterford rarely gets national coverage, therefore when people around the country are heading away for a weekend they rarely think of waterford ( hence the cheap hotel room rates ) which leads to quieter streets, local pubs/restuarants under more pressure, less of an atmosphere that tourists seem to bring/seek out

Where I am from, Limerick, the vast majority of media coverage we get is negative ( I believe wrongly ) that is having an effect every day here ( hence even cheaper hotel room rates )

What do Limerick and Waterford have in common aside from low room rates and fewer tourists, less IDA backed jobs, and on and on it goes...

For christ sake Limerick ( if some commentators are to be believed) is the fourth largest city in ireland, despite being a good 20% bigger in population than Galway. I am merely pointing this out to back up the point being made above about where RTE place their staff

Only when the general population see the damage that RTE are doing to your city, can you do anything about it...

Best of luck, I look foward to visiting your city sometime soon.

fricatus · 11-07-2012 9:55pm

abouttobebanned wrote: »

...compete with the country's big cities.

Sorry for nitpicking your post, but it's not as if Waterford is competing with Chicago, Moscow or Bangkok. In world terms, we have no "big cities", just an average sized one in Dublin, and that's it. A million people is a drop in the ocean when you consider there are seven billion of us on the planet.

So when we look at Waterford, it has to be in context. It's not as if Galway and Limerick are "big cities" regardless of whether you compare them to Waterford. Maybe "major cities" is a better term, because it's all relative.

And there's no reason not to think of Waterford as a "major city" in an Irish context. It's the fifth-largest urban centre, and there's nowhere bigger for 80 miles. So instead of saying stuff like "we need to compete with the major cities", we need to say "we need to compete with the other major cities".

Nitpicking I know, but it's all about how we see ourselves!

fricatus · 11-07-2012 10:00pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Hope you don't mind my posting in your forum

Please, do come in!

Silentcorner wrote: »

What do Limerick and Waterford have in common aside from low room rates and fewer tourists, less IDA backed jobs, and on and on it goes...

Plenty in my view. No coincidence that Phil Hogan is getting rid of yeer city council as well as ours.

Silentcorner wrote: »

For christ sake Limerick ( if some commentators are to be believed) is the fourth largest city in ireland, despite being a good 20% bigger in population than Galway. I am merely pointing this out to back up the point being made above about where RTE place their staff

Yeah, when I hear the major cities being listed as "Dublin, Cork and Galway", I sometimes wonder why Shannonsiders aren't kicking up more of a fuss!

Silentcorner wrote: »

Best of luck, I look foward to visiting your city sometime soon.

And when you do, please let us know so that we can give you a few pointers!

7upfree · 12-07-2012 4:18am

fricatus wrote: »

Nitpicking I know, but it's all about how we see ourselves!

Precisely. And the core point. I am genuinely sad to see posters proclaiming that they "don't care" or "couldn't care less". Thankfully, having discussed this matter with many people, the "don't care" brigade are in the minority.

As a Waterfordian, it is our duty to highlight the ongoing discrimination against the oldest City in Ireland, a city that has been consistently denied University status by a motley collection of people with agendas.

The people on the West coast cared - and have two Universities within spitting distance of each other.

The people on the West coast cared - and have two international airports.

The people on the West coast cared - and organised themselves into a strong political force. The results are there for all to see.

Continue "not caring" and Waterford is finished.

7upfree · 12-07-2012 4:20am

Green Hornet wrote: »

Lads, this whole thread is full of paranoia..........I dont think for a moment that RTE have any agenda against Waterford or anywhere else for that matter.

The fact is that Waterford is just not considered significant enough to have a program in this series. He's already said that Waterford and Kilkenny etc. may be included in another series.

How do you define "not significant enough"? And how does this warrant the exclusion of the oldest City in Ireland?

7upfree · 12-07-2012 4:22am

fricatus wrote: »

So when we look at Waterford, it has to be in context. It's not as if Galway and Limerick are "big cities" regardless of whether you compare them to Waterford.

Galway had a smaller population than Waterford in 1970. See what a University does?

7upfree · 12-07-2012 4:24am

abouttobebanned wrote: »

...parking...

And the City Council needs to get off its combined ass. The parking is a huge issue for traders.

The Council needs to introduce a "frequent parking" rate to encourage trade.

7upfree · 12-07-2012 4:25am

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Not everyone.

Only the ones who care about the city's prestige, profile, and development.

abouttobebanned · 12-07-2012 7:33am

7upfree wrote: »

Only the ones who care about the city's prestige, profile, and development.

Caring about Waterford and its development does not go hand in hand with caring about what RTE and TV3 think of us.

RTE1: Creedon's Cities - except Waterford!

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