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Ambulance behind, red light, what's your move?

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Comments

  • #92
    cormie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,855 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    UDP wrote: »
    I would suggest you watch your video again. At least the last part that clearly shows that the small car is all the way to the edge of the junction and is clearly past the stop line that you show in your drawing. You can actually see that the driver originally stops at the line but moves all the way to the edge of the junction as soon as he/she spots the ambulance to give as much room as possible not knowing how the suv beside him/her would move. So there's the car length you were looking for the car to use.
    212231.png

    I still think there's a lot more room than you think. Considering the cars were coming from the opposite side of the road, they would most likely taking an angle like the green solid lines below, the driver of the small car and yourself are worried about them taking the red dashed route, which I don't think any oncoming car took :)

    Untitled_197.jpg


  • #93
    xperi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭xperi


    these drivers could be eldery & got confused . they were on a red light remember so dont slag em off until you know all the facts, & for the ambulance driver to remain with his sirens on is out of order, try in to bully his way through when he can see that he/she not going to move on a red, i still think the drivers should have had the cop on to move forward a few feet to let him through. but not everyone reacts as all the "expert" drivers on this thread.


  • #94
    xperi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭xperi


    well said a bit of common sense for once,


  • #95
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    That was painful to watch. If an ambulance is roaring behind you, you FIND a way to get the fück out of its path. There was room for that car to manoeuvre. It's disheartening to imagine you have to share roads with brain dead people like that.

    Fücking hell.


  • #96
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    In some places doing that would result in the ambulance reporting you to the cops and serious charges following!

    Wilful obstruction of an ambulance officer comes in under public order offences here although, this situation seems more just lack of cop on rather than wilful obstruction.


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  • #97
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Hi it really annoys me when I see the likes of this happening for any emergency vehicle. I have and always do go straight through or move over of course reading the road 1st I drive large vehicles around Dublin and 1st thing I do is throw on hazard lights and slowly move forward while getting the attention of the other drivers that I will be crossing their path. I understand its illegal to go through red lights but have done it many times to clear apath for the Guards too. If its safe and you can get out of the way always do it no judge will do you for that safe motoring stay cool:cool:


  • #98
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    212235.png

    As can be seen there someone in the bus lane could easily have missed the event and went to fly through the junction not seeing the car until the last minute due to it being a dark colour and the wet conditions (although they should be watching).

    Whether the lights would have gone green for the car in question before the traffic to its right is irrelevant if the car in question does not know the order of the lights.

    Also then you have idiots who see a queue of cars at a junction and proceed to over(under)take them on the left to get around quicker. From what I have seen in the past these people tend to drive very fast and confidently. I would imagine the cinquecento would not come out well out of such an accident and could end up liable for the collision.


  • #99
    frankled
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 367 ✭✭frankled


    I don't get how people are defending the small car. I had said earlier that the car had enough room. I said that thinking traffic was crossing the Naas Road in both directions. I've just copped due to the above diagram that the car had in fact even more room as the traffic that had the lights was the traffic coming from Clondalkin and turning right towards Naas.

    As a result, the car had an acre of space.

    It's simple, ambulance behind you: MOVE. Obviously not into the way of an oncoming vehicle but do the best you can, it could be somebody's life in the balance. The ambulance even changed the siren in urgency and still nothing.


  • #100
    Jame Gumb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Jame Gumb


    Aren't we all fantastic drivers?

    So what if we'd all break the lights and / or move out of the way.

    The only person qualified to comment on the situation is the driver himself / herself. They know how much room they had. They know how close the moving traffic was. And they know their own level of ability. It may have been an 80 year old man or woman for all we know?

    But why should that stop keyboard warriors posting utter claptrap about complete strangers in circumstances none of us no the exact facts of???


  • #101
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Wasnt a Fiat and traffic was going other way and the blue lights would have been visible in all directions as it is a very wide junction


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  • #102
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Jame Gumb wrote: »
    Aren't we all fantastic drivers?

    So what if we'd all break the lights and / or move out of the way.

    The only person qualified to comment on the situation is the driver himself / herself. They know how much room they had. They know how close the moving traffic was. And they know their own level of ability. It may have been an 80 year old man or woman for all we know?

    But why should that stop keyboard warriors posting utter claptrap about complete strangers in circumstances none of us no the exact facts of???
    Cop on if your life was in the balance and it was on the way to you and you died because it took 2min longer cause nobody even the merc jeep by the way could give enough space none of us said put your life in danger driving out into another car. Its common sense see blue move out of the way. If the reactions of that car driver are that poor maybe we would all be safer if they gave up driving it could also be a 30 year old no one knows


  • #103
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Solair wrote: »
    In some places doing that would result in the ambulance reporting you to the cops and serious charges following!

    Wilful obstruction of an ambulance officer comes in under public order offences here although, this situation seems more just lack of cop on rather than wilful obstruction.
    Thats news to me this is Ireland you can report what you want but nothing is done about it. An ambulance driver reporting someone trying to help getting out of the way?


  • #104
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    frankled wrote: »
    I don't get how people are defending the small car. I had said earlier that the car had enough room. I said that thinking traffic was crossing the Naas Road in both directions. I've just copped due to the above diagram that the car had in fact even more room as the traffic that had the lights was the traffic coming from Clondalkin and turning right towards Naas.
    Yes it was going the other way but the lights would have changed again obviously possibly leaving the car stopped on another lane as it slowly moved back safely to where it was.
    frankled wrote: »
    It's simple, ambulance behind you: MOVE. Obviously not into the way of an oncoming vehicle but do the best you can, it could be somebody's life in the balance. The ambulance even changed the siren in urgency and still nothing.
    You move if you feel it is safe to do so since after all you are responsible for an accident that occurs as a result of your actions. I can completely understand hesitation from the small car not to move out and put itself and other drivers at risk.


  • #105
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,620 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Ambulance should have the right to nudge uncooperative people out of the way.
    Sorted.


  • #106
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    miller50841 wrote: »
    Wasnt a Fiat and traffic was going other way and the blue lights would have been visible in all directions as it is a very wide junction
    Who cares whether it was a fiat or not. The lights would have been visible until the ambulance had passed then any new car approaching the junction may not have been aware that an ambulance had just passed.


  • #107
    Jame Gumb
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 802 ✭✭✭Jame Gumb


    miller50841 wrote: »
    Jame Gumb wrote: »
    Aren't we all fantastic drivers?

    So what if we'd all break the lights and / or move out of the way.

    The only person qualified to comment on the situation is the driver himself / herself. They know how much room they had. They know how close the moving traffic was. And they know their own level of ability. It may have been an 80 year old man or woman for all we know?

    But why should that stop keyboard warriors posting utter claptrap about complete strangers in circumstances none of us no the exact facts of???
    Cop on if your life was in the balance and it was on the way to you and you died because it took 2min longer cause nobody even the merc jeep by the way could give enough space none of us said put your life in danger driving out into another car. Its common sense see blue move out of the way. If the reactions of that car driver are that poor maybe we would all be safer if they gave up driving it could also be a 30 year old no one knows
    .

    Nobody knows yet people feel they've the right / ability to comment definitively on the situation.

    Last time I checked, knowing precisely what to do at one of Ireland's busiest junctions when you're faced with such a situation wasn't a prerequisite for having a driving licence.

    I'd have made room but I'm not stupid enough to assume / expect that everyone else could...


  • #108
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    UDP wrote: »
    As can be seen there someone in the bus lane could easily have missed the event and went to fly through the junction not seeing the car until the last minute due to it being a dark colour and the wet conditions (although they should be watching).

    And King Kong could've come along and smashed everybody out of the way.

    What's your point? If that was your family member in the back in urgent need of attention, what would your feeling on the matter be then? Let's say that delay cost a life.... Would it still be the right thing to do?


  • #109
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    MugMugs wrote: »
    And King Kong could've come along and smashed everybody out of the way.
    I think the scenario I painted is a tad bit more likely.
    MugMugs wrote: »
    What's your point? If that was your family member in the back in urgent need of attention, what would your feeling on the matter be then? Let's say that delay cost a life.... Would it still be the right thing to do?
    I'm saying it is not as black and white as many here are painting and just because the driver didn't enter the junction doesn't make the driver incompetent or all the other things that are being levied against the driver. There is a perfectly valid safety reason for not doing so since you should only move out of the way of an ambulance if you deem it safe to do so. I would have taken the risk but I think it is unfair to brand everyone who does not want to take that risk as incompetent.


  • #110
    miller50841
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭miller50841


    Ireland needs better road safety training not just the driving test there should be proper instruction and honestly should start off in school just like the U.S. Nobody is perfect we all know that but it would be nice to see people drive even a small bit better. That driver needed to relax take a deep breath and just move forward and to their left a small bit. Nobody here or anywhere wants the car driver to shoot off through the lights and then cause a smash. I understand people panick with sirens see it all the time they just need to read the road and proceed with caution. This proceed with caution also comes into effect when going on green I see cars daily flying through reds


  • #111
    Sean^DCT4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 527 ✭✭✭Sean^DCT4


    Incredible to see this incompetence on the roads of Ireland. Here is a Google street view of the junction were the car was blocking the ambulance: http://goo.gl/maps/8ngK. I don't think anyone could dispute that there was more than enough room to move.

    These kind of drivers normally fall into the category of car park door bashing, side swiping lane changing, 10-point-see-saw-turn.

    The ambulance driver should have gotten out and tried to defibrillate the spatial reasoning side of that drivers head :)


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  • #112
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    Sean^DCT4 wrote: »
    Incredible to see this incompetence on the roads of Ireland. Here is a Google street view of the junction were the car was blocking the ambulance: http://goo.gl/maps/8ngK. I don't think anyone could dispute that there was more than enough room to move.

    These kind of drivers normally fall into the category of car park door bashing, side swiping lane changing, 10-point-see-saw-turn.

    The ambulance driver should have gotten out and tried to defibrillate the spatial reasoning side of that drivers head :)
    Funny you just proved the point I was making that there is not a lot of room for the driver to move out any further without the risk of blocking the lane of vehicles coming from the right of it as he/she would be right in front of the flybus bus seen in your streetview link. Thanks for that.

    I would have risked it (like many others in this thread) but maybe that would have made us the incompetent drivers for taking the risk.


  • #113
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    You don't sit blocking an emergency vehicle. There's really no grey area about it. If a fire truck, ambulance or police vehicle with flashing lights on is coming you get out of the way.

    To be fair, most drivers do get out of the way. I've seen Ambulances squeeze through multiple lanes of heavy traffic in both Cork and Dublin and drivers all made space to let it pass .

    Drivers also need a legal assurance that they're not doing anything wrong by facilitating an ambulance should any other muppet claim against them or something too.

    The situation here is obviously not clear enough.

    Life saving emergency traffic has to take priority over minor traffic laws.

    All that driver had to do was move a meter or so forward. They could even reverse back again afte it passed if they were worried about being beyond the lights!


  • #114
    frankled
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 367 ✭✭frankled


    UDP wrote: »
    Yes it was going the other way but the lights would have changed again obviously possibly leaving the car stopped on another lane as it slowly moved back safely to where it was.

    You move if you feel it is safe to do so since after all you are responsible for an accident that occurs as a result of your actions. I can completely understand hesitation from the small car not to move out and put itself and other drivers at risk.
    UDP wrote: »
    Funny you just proved the point I was making that there is not a lot of room for the driver to move out any further without the risk of blocking the lane of vehicles coming from the right of it as he/she would be right in front of the flybus bus seen in your streetview link. Thanks for that.

    I would have risked it (like many others in this thread) but maybe that would have made us the incompetent drivers for taking the risk.

    I don't think it's a risk. There's a lot of space at Newlands as it is such a massive junction. The car moves up a bit, one more inch nearly and the ambulance is through. Sounds like it is urgent judging by the siren-change, you'd think the driver could edge out slowly. I cannot see a circumstance here where that wouldn't be possible.


  • #115
    Sean^DCT4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 527 ✭✭✭Sean^DCT4


    I would disagree with you there UDP. It's not like the driver would have been pulling out at a blind T-junction on a country road. Look at the visibility drivers would have seen (considering there was an illuminous siren flashing ambulance here). http://goo.gl/maps/tdSM

    The offending driver and the oncoming drivers would have had a very good line of sight of each other.


  • #116
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    The situation is that life doesn't always follow the letter of the law when it comes to things like this. Sometimes you HAVE to just be practical!


  • #117
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    Sean^DCT4 wrote: »
    I would disagree with you there UDP. It's not like the driver would have been pulling out at a blind T-junction on a country road. Look at the visibility drivers would have seen (considering there was an illuminous siren flashing ambulance here). http://goo.gl/maps/tdSM

    The offending driver and the oncoming drivers would have had a very good line of sight of each other.
    Now make that a wet day, a dark car and a driver coming from this side distracted by an amber light.

    You have too much faith in the quality of drivers around the place. There is no doubt that if this driver moved out any further that he/she would be across the lane and in front of the lane the flybus is in from the excellent link provided by Sean:
    http://goo.gl/maps/8ngK


  • #118
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    frankled wrote: »
    I don't think it's a risk. There's a lot of space at Newlands as it is such a massive junction. The car moves up a bit, one more inch nearly and the ambulance is through. Sounds like it is urgent judging by the siren-change, you'd think the driver could edge out slowly. I cannot see a circumstance here where that wouldn't be possible.
    It might be worth looking at the video and street view link posted before you make an ignorant statement such as above. If the small car moved out any further its clear they would be on the lane for cars coming from the car's right side. That might be fine where someone knows the junction well thus knows the order of lights etc but maybe this car did not so you cannot blame them for not taking the risk in this instance if that is the case.


  • #119
    sentient_6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭sentient_6


    I was just having a look at that exact spot a few minutes ago when i was coming from clondalkin direction looking to turn right onto the N7 southbound. IMO the car could've pulled in front of the car to its left, perpendicular the direction it was facing, then reversed back into the gap after the ambulance moved on.


  • #120
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    Solair wrote: »
    The situation is that life doesn't always follow the letter of the law when it comes to things like this. Sometimes you HAVE to just be practical!
    True but that doesn't help someone who ends up being liable for an accident because they were just trying to be practical. I would have broken the law and put my car in a position that could have caused an accident given certain circumstances for the sake of letting the ambulance get through but I can understand why someone else might not be comfortable doing so.


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  • #121
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    sentient_6 wrote: »
    I was just having a look at that exact spot a few minutes ago when i was coming from clondalkin direction looking to turn right onto the N7 southbound. IMO the car could've pulled in front of the car to its left, perpendicular the direction it was facing, then reversed back into the gap after the ambulance moved on.
    Risky if the lights changed in the meantime giving a green light to vehicles to the right of the car (in the position it was in the video).


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