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Ambulance behind, red light, what's your move?

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  • #62
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    mathepac wrote: »
    So no legal compulsion to "make way" for emergency vehicles unless the driver believes it is safe to do so.

    That`s the very problem. For example, some drivers do not feel it is safe to enter a roundabout if a single other car can be seen near the horizon.

    Does that mean it is not safe?

    Ever seen a car that wont pass a tractor which is completely in the hard shoulder? Or wont drive between 2 cars when there is room for a bus?

    So, unfortunately for the ambulance, the driver in front was a driver who thought moving forward a little was too dangerous, where as other drivers would have moved.

    In reality, when a driver thinks something is too dangerous, that does not mean it actually is. Imo, that driver was of the same opinion as yourself, dont break the red light no matter what. And/or they just had no awareness.


  • #63
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    He could easily have pulled in front of the jeep or car either side of him and made room.

    If that driver isn't competent enough to use the roads perhaps they should reconsider their means of transportation.

    The "if safe to do so" stuff just doesn't cut it IMHO.


  • #64
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    MugMugs wrote: »
    He could easily have pulled in front of the jeep or car either side of him and made room.

    If that driver isn't competent enough to use the roads perhaps they should reconsider their means of transportation.

    The "if safe to do so" stuff just doesn't cut it IMHO.
    The diver of the small car would not have known what way the suv was going to move since it pulled up onto the curb after the small car moved forward and to its left as much as possible. What if the small car went to move in front of the suv as the suv decided to move forward then there would be no hope of the ambulance getting out and it could have resulted in a collision that the small car would have been responsible for.

    Again more black and white ignorant judging.


  • #65
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    UDP wrote: »
    MugMugs wrote: »
    He could easily have pulled in front of the jeep or car either side of him and made room.

    If that driver isn't competent enough to use the roads perhaps they should reconsider their means of transportation.

    The "if safe to do so" stuff just doesn't cut it IMHO.
    The diver of the small car would not have known what way the suv was going to move since it pulled up onto the curb after the small car moved forward and to its left as much as possible. What if the small car went to move in front of the suv as the suv decided to move forward then there would be no hope of the ambulance getting out and it could have resulted in a collision that the small car would have been responsible for.

    Again more black and white ignorant judging.

    Ignorant? Lovely. :) It's quite easy really. The SUV has already facilitated the Ambulance. I'm sure the SUV would stay put until the car had cleared once the lights changed.


  • #66
    ukonline
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 199 ✭✭ukonline


    -

    GET OUT OF THE WAY, A** H*LE!!!!!!

    -

    fe6732024f04827f76144f1716781508.jpg

    -


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  • #67
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    UDP wrote: »
    And what if it was the drivers first time at that junction thus didn't know there was space there as it can be very difficult to see road markings when the road is wet?
    The driver made a call on the safer side. If they knew the junction well then they might have made a different decision but we don't know whether they did or not.

    There is the possibility though that if they did move into the lane that a car could strike them though in certain circumstances. For example, all the traffic goes through from the right getting around the small car. Then a car coming up to the lights notices that the lights turn amber as they approach them then like many drivers put the foot down to get through the junction only to spot the car that is on its lane resulting in having to break hard on a wet surface with unknown consequences. Its a possibility and even though the car went through an amber light should have stopped its not a clear cut case for the small car stopped crossing someone elses lane.

    There is the possibly of causing an accident and there is the possibility the small car driver didn't know how much room he/she had. So people should not be so quick to judge here and call the driver incompetent etc.

    Have a good look at the junction on google maps.

    That car would have had to drive a couple of car lengths forward to interfere in any way with traffc from the right, (their left). No possibility driving one length further forward can possibly interfere with any car speeding through the junction from the right (their left). Look at the google map of it, in satellite mode.


  • #68
    mconigol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    Jesus some people here are idiots. So the driver is supposed to risk their life and the people crossing the junction at speed? Bull****. They did the right and safe thing for themselves.

    As bad as it sounds any basic safety training will tell you that you never risk your own safety even when someone else may be at risk. There is just too much risk of contributing to make a bad situation worse.


  • #69
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    MugMugs wrote: »
    UDP wrote: »
    MugMugs wrote: »
    He could easily have pulled in front of the jeep or car either side of him and made room.

    If that driver isn't competent enough to use the roads perhaps they should reconsider their means of transportation.

    The "if safe to do so" stuff just doesn't cut it IMHO.
    The diver of the small car would not have known what way the suv was going to move since it pulled up onto the curb after the small car moved forward and to its left as much as possible. What if the small car went to move in front of the suv as the suv decided to move forward then there would be no hope of the ambulance getting out and it could have resulted in a collision that the small car would have been responsible for.

    Again more black and white ignorant judging.

    Ignorant? Lovely. :) It's quite easy really. The SUV has already facilitated the Ambulance. I'm sure the SUV would stay put until the car had cleared once the lights changed.
    Yes, ignorant as in lack of knowledge of the facts as presented in the clip.

    No the small car had already moved forward and to its left before the suv even moved at all - watch it again. This puts the small car as far forward as is possible without entering the junction this has no more room to then cut across in front if the suv. In fact the suv has a better chance to make a judgement call than the small car since the small car already made its move. The suv tried its best too.


  • #70
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    UDP wrote: »
    Yes, ignorant as in lack of knowledge of the facts as presented in the clip.

    No the small car had already moved forward and to its left before the suv even moved at all - watch it again. This puts the small car as far forward as is possible without entering the junction this has no more room to then cut across in front if the suv. In fact the suv has a better chance to make a judgement call than the small car since the small car already made its move. The suv tried its best too.

    The small car had other choices. Could of moved forward another car length, or could of (possibly) reversed and left, up onto the traffic island. To say there were no more options, is ignorant.


  • #71
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    UDP wrote: »
    And what if it was the drivers first time at that junction thus didn't know there was space there as it can be very difficult to see road markings when the road is wet?
    The driver made a call on the safer side. If they knew the junction well then they might have made a different decision but we don't know whether they did or not.

    There is the possibility though that if they did move into the lane that a car could strike them though in certain circumstances. For example, all the traffic goes through from the right getting around the small car. Then a car coming up to the lights notices that the lights turn amber as they approach them then like many drivers put the foot down to get through the junction only to spot the car that is on its lane resulting in having to break hard on a wet surface with unknown consequences. Its a possibility and even though the car went through an amber light should have stopped its not a clear cut case for the small car stopped crossing someone elses lane.

    There is the possibly of causing an accident and there is the possibility the small car driver didn't know how much room he/she had. So people should not be so quick to judge here and call the driver incompetent etc.

    Have a good look at the junction on google maps.

    That car would have had to drive about 4 or 5 lengths forward to interfere in any way with traffc from the right, (their left). No possibility driving one length further forward can possibly interfere with any car speeding through the junction from the right (their left). Look at the google map of it, in satellite mode.
    I didn't doubt that (re-read my post). I am saying that the driver may not have known that for sure if it was their first time using that busy junction in wet conditions when road markings are not as clear.

    After that I was talking about traffic from their right - whose lane the small car would be blocking had they moved forward to give room to the ambulance.


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  • #72
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    UDP wrote: »
    MugMugs wrote: »
    UDP wrote: »
    MugMugs wrote: »
    He could easily have pulled in front of the jeep or car either side of him and made room.

    If that driver isn't competent enough to use the roads perhaps they should reconsider their means of transportation.

    The "if safe to do so" stuff just doesn't cut it IMHO.
    The diver of the small car would not have known what way the suv was going to move since it pulled up onto the curb after the small car moved forward and to its left as much as possible. What if the small car went to move in front of the suv as the suv decided to move forward then there would be no hope of the ambulance getting out and it could have resulted in a collision that the small car would have been responsible for.

    Again more black and white ignorant judging.

    Ignorant? Lovely. :) It's quite easy really. The SUV has already facilitated the Ambulance. I'm sure the SUV would stay put until the car had cleared once the lights changed.
    Yes, ignorant as in lack of knowledge of the facts as presented in the clip.

    No the small car had already moved forward and to its left before the suv even moved at all - watch it again. This puts the small car as far forward as is possible without entering the junction this has no more room to then cut across in front if the suv. In fact the suv has a better chance to make a judgement call than the small car since the small car already made its move. The suv tried its best too.

    You're funny. :) Do you know that junction? You'd pull a small truck in front of that junction to facilitate the ambulance and not impede on the moving traffic.

    I know what ignorant means. It's a matter of perspective as to whether I am or not though. :)


  • #73
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    Nothing the car could have done imo and if the ambulance thought it was safe or necessary to endanger every other motorist at a busy junction then they would have got through the traffic.
    Wet day busy junction what happened was the safest option.


  • #74
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    UDP wrote: »
    Yes, ignorant as in lack of knowledge of the facts as presented in the clip.

    No the small car had already moved forward and to its left before the suv even moved at all - watch it again. This puts the small car as far forward as is possible without entering the junction this has no more room to then cut across in front if the suv. In fact the suv has a better chance to make a judgement call than the small car since the small car already made its move. The suv tried its best too.

    The small car had other choices. Could of moved forward another car length, or could of (possibly) reversed and left, up onto the traffic island. To say there were no more options, is ignorant.
    Moved forward onto another traffic lane which brings risk of causing an accident.

    The car looks to be a cinquecento and that curb looks like its not low plus the ambulance pulled right in behind them when they moved forward iirc

    Who said there were no other options? There were but most if not all involved taking risks to be decided in a second on a wet day with not great visibility.

    All I'm saying is people are quick to black and white judge here and call the driver incompetent etc without looking at the full situation properly.


  • #75
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    UDP wrote: »

    After that I was talking about traffic from their right - whose lane the small car would be blocking had they moved forward to give room to the ambulance.

    If the small car had moved into the lane for traffic from their right, do you think that traffic would then proceed into them if they got the green light?

    And this, after an ambulance would have now went through the junction, possibly giving a clue to others as to why the small car is now there?

    Do other junctions have traffic drive into a crossing car who has now blocked the junction due to not being able to exit it?

    This was a simple matter for the car. But they had no awareness, all too common on the roads of this country. Every turn, every roundabout has them unaware drivers. Unfamiliar junction is rubbish. They were clueless.


  • #76
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    UDP wrote: »
    Moved forward onto another traffic lane which brings risk of causing an accident.

    As does driving anywhere.

    The ambulance could be a life and death situation, with minutes being the main factor. Driving one car length forward by that car, into an empty lane, would be highly unlikely to have caused an accident.


  • #77
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    MugMugs wrote: »
    UDP wrote: »
    MugMugs wrote: »
    UDP wrote: »
    MugMugs wrote: »
    He could easily have pulled in front of the jeep or car either side of him and made room.

    If that driver isn't competent enough to use the roads perhaps they should reconsider their means of transportation.

    The "if safe to do so" stuff just doesn't cut it IMHO.
    The diver of the small car would not have known what way the suv was going to move since it pulled up onto the curb after the small car moved forward and to its left as much as possible. What if the small car went to move in front of the suv as the suv decided to move forward then there would be no hope of the ambulance getting out and it could have resulted in a collision that the small car would have been responsible for.

    Again more black and white ignorant judging.

    Ignorant? Lovely. :) It's quite easy really. The SUV has already facilitated the Ambulance. I'm sure the SUV would stay put until the car had cleared once the lights changed.
    Yes, ignorant as in lack of knowledge of the facts as presented in the clip.

    No the small car had already moved forward and to its left before the suv even moved at all - watch it again. This puts the small car as far forward as is possible without entering the junction this has no more room to then cut across in front if the suv. In fact the suv has a better chance to make a judgement call than the small car since the small car already made its move. The suv tried its best too.

    You're funny. :) Do you know that junction? You'd pull a small truck in front of that junction to facilitate the ambulance and not impede on the moving traffic.
    Have a look in google maps again then and see that if that car moved any further forward it would be blocking lane 1 (bus lane) of traffic coming from the right of the car in question. Do you disagree?


  • #78
    Mycroft H
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,313 ✭✭✭Mycroft H


    Its newlands cross, you would have had to move several metres forward to cross traffic. Nugde a little to the right? Yep that would have worked. I see people frequently drifting past the stop line every day there so I can't see the problem here

    Can't believe some people are defending ignorance and stupidity.


  • #79
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    UDP wrote: »
    Have a look in google maps again then and see that if that car moved any further forward it would be blocking lane 1 (bus lane) of traffic coming from the right of the car in question. Do you disagree?

    And do you think if that traffic got the green light, they would blindly drive into that car now, even though they just seen an ambulance driving through?

    As i said, ever see a car enter a junction, but cant get out of the junction? Other traffic gets the green light. Do we see them drive into the offending car?

    No, we see annoyed drivers beeping etc. But not accidents.


  • #80
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    UDP wrote: »
    Moved forward onto another traffic lane which brings risk of causing an accident.

    As does driving anywhere.

    The ambulance could be a life and death situation, with minutes being the main factor. Driving one car length forward by that car, into an empty lane, would be highly unlikely to have caused an accident.
    Driving does cause risk but breaking the law and stopping in someone elses lane does increase the risk somewhat while also putting the responsibilty of a collision on the one breaking the law/crossing someone elses path.


  • #81
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    hondasam wrote: »
    Nothing the car could have done imo and if the ambulance thought it was safe or necessary to endanger every other motorist at a busy junction then they would have got through the traffic.
    Wet day busy junction what happened was the safest option.

    Ever see a car stopped at a roundabout in front of you, and say what are they waiting for?

    In their opinion, its not safe to proceed. Does that mean its not?


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  • #82
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Ever see a car stopped at a roundabout in front of you, and say what are they waiting for?

    In their opinion, its not safe to proceed. Does that mean its not?

    Not the same thing, that is a busy junction with a lot of traffic. Do you not think the ambulance would have made it's way through if necessary?


  • #83
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    UDP wrote: »
    Have a look in google maps again then and see that if that car moved any further forward it would be blocking lane 1 (bus lane) of traffic coming from the right of the car in question. Do you disagree?

    And do you think if that traffic got the green light, they would blindly drive into that car now, even though they just seen an ambulance driving through?

    As i said, ever see a car enter a junction, but cant get out of the junction? Other traffic gets the green light. Do we see them drive into the offending car?

    No, we see annoyed drivers beeping etc. But not accidents.
    What if someone got to the junction after the ambulance is gone this doesn't realize what happened. It doesn't matter anyway since there are drivers out there with a sense if entitlement/bad unaware drivers that see an amber light and plough through without looking to make sure the path is clear.

    Happened to me where a driver who shouldn't have missed that I was there ploughed into me as he was distracted by the amber light.


  • #84
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    UDP wrote: »
    Driving does cause risk but breaking the law and stopping in someone elses lane does increase the risk somewhat while also putting the responsibilty of a collision on the one breaking the law/crossing someone elses path.

    Stopping in someone else`s lane happens all the time. Are you missing that? Happens at most busy junctions.

    As for breaking the law, once you mention that, I assume no breaking a red light for you if blocking an ambulance.


  • #85
    cormie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,855 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Here you go folks:

    Untitled_196.jpg

    Look at the video again, the ambulance looks like it just needs the small car to go another meter forward, if even, for it to fit through. Not even a cars length necessary. Looking at the map, it appears the car has much more than a cars length at their disposal.


  • #86
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    hondasam wrote: »
    Not the same thing, that is a busy junction with a lot of traffic. Do you not think the ambulance would have made it's way through if necessary?

    It had its sirens on, Id assume it was an emergency.

    I definitely would have went further forward there, or reversed back and left, onto the island. That driver just froze there.

    Another half length forward would have cleared the ambulance most likely.


  • #87
    BigGrayKettle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭BigGrayKettle


    I don't know ow anybody can say that the driver of the smaller car done the correct thing by staying put. Absolutely ridiculous. As many others have said, plenty of room to maneuver a small car out of the way in a safe manner. Moreover, the traffic approaching at the intersection isn't being driven by a bunch of blind people. It wouldn't take a genius to clearly see what is going on and slow down/stop to allow the ambulance through and maintain a safe distance from the small car (with the clearance anyway, no correction may even be needed).


  • #88
    Greyfoot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 566 ✭✭✭Greyfoot


    Hungarian Ambulance on board camera..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRUesuxwMGg&feature=relmfu


  • #89
    UDP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,188 ✭✭✭UDP


    cormie wrote: »
    Here you go folks:


    Look at the video again, the ambulance looks like it just needs the small car to go another meter forward, if even, for it to fit through. Not even a cars length necessary. Looking at the map, it appears the car has much more than a cars length at their disposal.
    I would suggest you watch your video again. At least the last part that clearly shows that the small car is all the way to the edge of the junction and is clearly past the stop line that you show in your drawing. You can actually see that the driver originally stops at the line but moves all the way to the edge of the junction as soon as he/she spots the ambulance to give as much room as possible not knowing how the suv beside him/her would move. So there's the car length you were looking for the car to use.
    212231.png


  • #90
    BigGrayKettle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 132 ✭✭BigGrayKettle


    Greyfoot wrote: »
    Hungarian Ambulance on board camera..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRUesuxwMGg&feature=relmfu


    Their siren sounds like a video game! Very cool.


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  • #91
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    It had its sirens on, Id assume it was an emergency.

    I definitely would have went further forward there, or reversed back and left, onto the island. That driver just froze there.

    Another half length forward would have cleared the ambulance most likely.

    Personally I would always do my best to get out of the way if at all possible but not if it meant putting myself in danger of being hit.

    Sirens on does not always mean an emergency as such. They would do this coming up to lights in the hope cars might move and let them through a bit quicker.
    I'm not saying it was not an emergency as I do not know the circumstances of that incident.


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