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Pornography to blame for girls rape in todays society?Change of culture?Your thoughts

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Comments

  • #212
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    philologos wrote: »
    validusername1 wrote: »
    the person who does the raping is to blame, not porn. it's not porn's fault that certain people are so sick. back in the days before the internet and things of that sort when porn wasn't as popular/didn't exist, i'm sure rapes still happened a lot. what did they try to blame then??
    it's the rapist's fault, end of

    Nobody is saying that the rapist isn't entirely at fault. However, to shrug the impact of pornography on society in respect to how we view people is another issue. I'm of the mindset that it is very destructive to view people as mere sex objects rather than people in fullness. To say that it doesn't impact peoples philosophies about sexuality is absurd.

    A controversial opinion this may be, but I think the world would be a lot better off without it.

    What's your stance on viewing people as table tennis objects or rock climbing objects?


  • #213
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    philologos wrote: »
    I never said it wasn't. In fact I firmly believe the old saying "there's nothing new under the sun". But just because other people did these kinds of things and promoted them doesn't mean that they are right or healthy.

    I guess it comes down to what do you base your life on. My foundational beliefs tell me that humans are far more precious than we can ever hope or dream to imagine and that humans are worthy of dignity and respect.

    I think all the things you listed are equally abhorrent. I long for a day when we can break free from the tyranny that sexual objectification has to offer and pursue meaningful loving relationships instead.

    Speak for yourself there.
    As a female, I have to say that I am incredibly happy to live at this time, where I can access the kind of porn I like, make the kind of porn I like, and generally do not have to submit to other people's fear of sexuality.


  • #214
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    philologos wrote: »
    validusername1 wrote: »
    the person who does the raping is to blame, not porn. it's not porn's fault that certain people are so sick. back in the days before the internet and things of that sort when porn wasn't as popular/didn't exist, i'm sure rapes still happened a lot. what did they try to blame then??
    it's the rapist's fault, end of

    Nobody is saying that the rapist isn't entirely at fault. However, to shrug the impact of pornography on society in respect to how we view people is another issue. I'm of the mindset that it is very destructive to view people as mere sex objects rather than people in fullness. To say that it doesn't impact peoples philosophies about sexuality is absurd.

    A controversial opinion this may be, but I think the world would be a lot better off without it.

    What's your stance on viewing people as table tennis objects or rock climbing objects?

    If people saw people like that to the detriment of acknowledging their humanity then there'd be something not quite right.

    People are people, they aren't just means to ends.

    Oh and I don't think that having perspective on what should be of first importance constitutes being afraid of sexuality.


  • #215
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    strobe wrote: »
    Much more likely the result of almost everyone having access to cheap portable video recording equipment such as thier mobile phones or digital cameras, than porn.

    Ban video recording devices I say!

    It'd be much easier if we restrict the ability to commuinicate between devices and revert back to the just receiving signals, which can contain pre-approved media from reputable sources. That way all items whether visual or audio that we and our youth are exposed to can be verified to have no negative impact on society and how we integrate within it. Thus significantly reducing crime rates throughout the country.

    Be well.


  • #216
    Roadend
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 885 ✭✭✭Roadend


    bluewolf wrote: »
    yeah i'm sure rape never existed in the past ever
    It was razzle's fault back then


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  • #217
    Stiffler2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭Stiffler2


    leggo wrote: »
    Porn and video games just give sick cnuts different ideas on how to unleash their sickness. They're not a cause so much as an influence along the way.


    I'd say in about 10 yrs, porn and video games will be banned in communist Ireland, I'd also like to add that every Irish person will be wearing a pink flanel shirt in 10 yrs as well

    porn is going to be moved into it's own top level domain, who knows when. It's been created just recently, it will make ISP and parents much easier to block porn


  • #218
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    what i would ask the above posters,who liken sex objects to rocks etc,is that do you think it to be relevant that this 14 year old male(probably with low empathy or a low moral bar) was watching porn before he raped this 5 year old.do you see it as significant,or do you think it has nothing whatsoever to do with it?


    to the poster on the last page:

    [/QUOTE]You keep saying this but you never gave us any reason to believe it to be the case.

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/girl-16-alleges-6hour-gang-rape-in-cork-and-limerick-3023582.html

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/0426/ireland/two-teenagers-arrested-in-gang-rape-investigation-191848.html

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/pre-teens-gang-raped-in-initiation-rites-197304.html


  • #219
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    what i would ask the above posters,who liken sex objects to rocks etc,is that do you think it to be relevant that this 14 year old male(probably with low empathy or a low moral bar) was watching porn before he raped this 5 year old.do you see it as significant,or do you think it has nothing whatsoever to do with it?

    Thanks for clearly defining your target audience there Christmas...

    I very much doubt pornography gave him the idea to rape the girl. It would have fed a sexual desire, given him ideas towards things he may want to do with someone else that he wouldn't of considered prior to viewing it. But I doubt it has any more to do than that.


  • #220
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    there are themes of rape and torture porn in a lot of them now,and people can go look obviously the snuff rape/murder stuff would be harder to find,and you could get a conviction for it too..

    Question about your username...
    Is christmas2012 when you are going to stop posting?


  • #221
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Thanks for clearly defining your target audience there Christmas...

    I very much doubt pornography gave him the idea to rape the girl. It would have fed a sexual desire, given him ideas towards things he may want to do with someone else that he wouldn't of considered prior to viewing it. But I doubt it has any more to do than that.


    If you put a person who is suggestible or has a low moral bar infront of a computer filled with porn,i think it will have an affect on them,whether they want to admit it or not,thats another story..

    But i dont think the judge make the right decision,blaming porn soley for his actions,when it was up to him what to do with that information..it is to my mind completley wrong.

    I think its up to the individual,but the affects of porn on our society i think is obvious,now you have kids with mobile phones and cameras,videotaping thier rapes,meeting kids over the internet chatrooms etc.

    I think to completley ignore how the internet becoming widely available,and porn,and how it has changed our lives is ignorant or simply sticking your head in the sand saying i dont want to know..


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  • #222
    hooradiation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,922 ✭✭✭hooradiation


    philologos wrote: »
    I long for a day when we can break free from the tyranny that sexual objectification has to offer and pursue meaningful loving relationships instead.

    That sounds so wretchedly dull, may you never get your wish.


  • #223
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    If you put a person who is suggestible or has a low moral bar in front of a computer filled with porn,i think it will have an affect on them,whether they want to admit it or not,thats another story..

    Anything can have such an affect on anyone if enough exposure is provided regardless of whether or not they are suggestible or easily led. But to say this about porn is nonsense. You have to go out and seek it yourself. It just doesn't magic its way to you.
    christmas2012 wrote: »
    But i dont think the judge make the right decision,blaming porn soley for his actions,when it was up to him what to do with that information..it is to my mind completley wrong.

    So why are you blaming Porn for the increased reports of rapings if you don't think it's a valid reason or motivation for rapings?
    christmas2012 wrote: »
    I think its up to the individual,but the affects of porn on our society i think is obvious,now you have kids with mobile phones and cameras,videotaping thier rapes,meeting kids over the internet chatrooms etc.

    If it's the individual, it's not Porn that is doing this. You'll find with a lot of victimised crime there can be a tendancy for people to claim trophies by whatever means suits them at the time. Some guy stole the shoes off women he raped. Some guys took polariods of their victims. So cameras on mobile phones is just merely an evolution of this. But it's not something that needs to be addressed as much as you seem to claim. It's not a driver for the offence, it's a by-product of it.

    Regarding kids on chatrooms. There's a lot to be said there about parents being aware of their kids online activities. This is nothing new and has been repeatedly stated by various organizations for at least the last 10 years.
    christmas2012 wrote: »
    I think to completley ignore how the internet becoming widely available,and porn,and how it has changed our lives is ignorant or simply sticking your head in the sand saying i dont want to know..

    The internet is not the downfall for soceity. Nor is the content of it. The only
    issue of concern is when people within soceity don't respect others within soceity and to tar porn as the fault is ridiculous. The porn industry clearly makes it known that all involved are actors/actresses and that the activities partaken represent fictional events. To use such as reason for rapings is to say heavy / death metal is the reason for high school shootings. There is no direct link to intentionally manipulate someone and instigate such activities.

    If you want to blame something, blame the glorification of ganster life in the USA, Mexico, Phillipines, where a lot of these "rape initiations" occur.


  • #224
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    so why are they discussing censorship of porn on the internet in congress in the united states?its not just for nothing,a lot of gang rapes now,if you google it,have correlations between whats on the internet for young people..

    the internet has changed the way we socialize,how we see sex,and how we interact with each other do you deny this also?


  • #225
    Jaxxy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,297 ✭✭✭Jaxxy


    Christmas, you're gas.


  • #226
    Baneblade
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 426 ✭✭Baneblade


    Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter


  • #227
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    christmas2012 wrote: »
    so why are they discussing censorship of porn on the internet in congress in the united states?its not just for nothing,a lot of gang rapes now,if you google it,have correlations between whats on the internet for young people..

    the internet has changed the way we socialize,how we see sex,and how we interact with each other do you deny this also?

    Porn isn't the reason for gang rapes in America. The gang rapes in America are used to demoralise female gang members and make them easier to pimp out. So if anything, it's sex trade and the ciminalisation of such. This is not to do with porn.

    If the United States congress is looking to censor the content of the internet and thus limit the availability of porn, it's because they are most likely being petitioned by people who do not like the idea of porn. In the mid-80's they were looking to censor the lyrical content of music that was being produced. It'll end up getting shot down becuase their constituition is quite clear on the freedom of speech/expression. Or so Larry Flint would have me believe.
    christmas2012 wrote: »
    the internet has changed the way we socialize,how we see sex,and how we interact with each other do you deny this also?

    Agreed socialising and personal interaction has changed since, though not for the worse. But an attitude to anything even sex is developed personally by perception and perception can be skewed by social input. Until recently the perception towards sex has been fairly unjust I feel. Now that sexual perception has the ability to expand positivily we are looking at trouble cases as being problems inherited from sex and the popularity sex has "recently gained," with the advent of the bringer of doom known as the internet.


  • #228
    Brianna Miniature Showboat
    Posts: 81,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Brianna Miniature Showboat


    philologos wrote: »
    I long for a day when we can break free from the tyranny that sexual objectification has to offer and pursue meaningful loving relationships instead.

    I long for the day you grow up, have sex, and realise a healthy sex life and loving relationships are not mutually exclusive, and that casual sex does not preclude having the latter at a later date


  • #229
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    philologos wrote: »
    Nobody is saying that the rapist isn't entirely at fault. However, to shrug the impact of pornography on society in respect to how we view people is another issue. I'm of the mindset that it is very destructive to view people as mere sex objects rather than people in fullness. To say that it doesn't impact peoples philosophies about sexuality is absurd.

    A controversial opinion this may be, but I think the world would be a lot better off without it.


    Yeah, viewing people as sex objects...just a collection of genitalia.....considering that a great deal of christian denominations bar people from preaching/priesthood and/or leadership roles on their lack of a penis and testes. I'd look to your own house first, oul flower.


  • #230
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    philologos wrote: »
    I never said it wasn't. In fact I firmly believe the old saying "there's nothing new under the sun". But just because other people did these kinds of things and promoted them doesn't mean that they are right or healthy.

    I guess it comes down to what do you base your life on. My foundational beliefs tell me that humans are far more precious than we can ever hope or dream to imagine and that humans are worthy of dignity and respect.

    I think all the things you listed are equally abhorrent. I long for a day when we can break free from the tyranny that sexual objectification has to offer and pursue meaningful loving relationships instead.

    My universal translator reads that as

    'I believe that humans are far more precious than we can ever hope or dream to imagine and that humans are worthy of dignity and respect but sex and the body are dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty........'


  • #231
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    your universal translation is faulty :pac:


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  • #232
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Nodin wrote: »
    My universal translator reads that as

    'I believe that humans are far more precious than we can ever hope or dream to imagine and that humans are worthy of dignity and respect but sex and the body are dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty........'

    Which is nonsense.

    I've not advocated such a view, and I wouldn't. In the right context, sexuality is something which is intrinsically important. Outside of that context, it is warped.
    bluewolf wrote: »
    I long for the day you grow up, have sex, and realise a healthy sex life and loving relationships are not mutually exclusive, and that casual sex does not preclude having the latter at a later date

    The usual, because I disagree with you that I need to grow up :)

    Why not lose the ad-hominems and have a proper discussion?

    My point was rather simple. It's not healthy IMO to view people as sex objects first, and people second. I thought that was relatively rudimentary.
    hooradiation wrote: »
    That sounds so wretchedly dull, may you never get your wish.

    What's wretchedly dull about walking through life with someone you really love and care for? Personally, that's something I really long for.

    That's one of the most beautiful things that mankind can even fathom. Why would that be dull?


  • #233
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    philologos wrote: »
    Which is nonsense.

    I've not advocated such a view, and I wouldn't. In the right context, sexuality is something which is intrinsically important. Outside of that context, it is warped.?

    What context would that be?

    philologos wrote: »
    My point was rather simple. It's not healthy IMO to view people as sex objects first, and people second. I thought that was relatively rudimentary. .


    Might I ask what specific denomination you are a member of?


  • #234
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Nodin wrote: »
    What context would that be?

    I believe marriage. I don't believe that as you said "sex is dirty". It'd be nice if you tried understand my position first before jumping in with that.
    Nodin wrote: »
    Might I ask what specific denomination you are a member of?

    I go to a church on the evangelical wing of the Church of England. Look at the link if you want more specific information.


  • #235
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    philologos wrote: »
    I believe marriage..

    So sex is ok as long as you have a magical ceremony beforehand. Grand.
    philologos wrote: »
    I don't believe that as you said "sex is dirty". It'd be nice if you tried understand my position first before jumping in with that..

    Do please expound and expand then.
    philologos wrote: »
    I go to a church on the evangelical wing of the Church of England. Look at the link if you want more specific information.

    Getting specifics indeed. Where do you stand on Women priests and Bishops?


  • #236
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    philologos wrote: »



    What's wretchedly dull about walking through life with someone you really love and care for? Personally, that's something I really long for.

    That's one of the most beautiful things that mankind can even fathom. Why would that be dull?

    What does that have to do with how much sex you have with whom?
    Love and sex can coincide, but don't have to, and each is fantastic in its own right.

    Why would you assume that just because it's something YOU really long for, all of mankind does the same?


  • #237
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Shenshen wrote: »
    What does that have to do with how much sex you have with whom?
    Love and sex can coincide, but don't have to, and each is fantastic in its own right.

    Why would you assume that just because it's something YOU really long for, all of mankind does the same?

    Shenshen: I think you're missing my point somewhat. My point is that if you view people primarily as sex objects, then to some degree you are cheapening their humanity.

    Nodin: I don't see why you call marriage of necessity "magical". There's great value in people offering a life long commitment to one another before others and before God.

    I've already "expounded" my position very clearly. It's nothing to do with what you've claimed. Sexual expression is a great thing in the right circumstances as far as I see it. When it comes first in how we view others around us, it's destructive.

    I'm going to keep this thread on the topic of pornography. If you've got other questions about church and things feel free to PM me.


  • #238
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    philologos wrote: »
    Shenshen: I think you're missing my point somewhat. My point is that if you view people primarily as sex objects, then to some degree you are cheapening their humanity

    So when you're ordering food in a rstaurant, you don't view the person taking the order and bringing the food primarily as a waiter/waitress? You will try and explore the fullness of his/her human potential?

    Yes,I do separate humanity into people I would have sex with, and people I wouldn't. But that is not the primary way that I or any other sane person interacts with the world. We also separate humanity into people we like and people we don't, people who we need to help us and people we don't, adults and children, men and women, people who speak English and people who don't, people who can cook and people who can't... because that's how human minds work, we categorise. And one of these categories is and has always been sex.

    I fail to see how recognising this particular aspect is more "cheapening" than recognising any other.


  • #239
    Brianna Miniature Showboat
    Posts: 81,308 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Brianna Miniature Showboat


    philologos wrote: »


    The usual, because I disagree with you that I need to grow up :)
    Nothing to do with disagreeing, just a general observation


  • #240
    IrishAm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    Neither the perps nor the victim were Irish. Not an Irish issue tbh.


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  • #241
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    philologos wrote: »
    Nodin wrote: »
    My universal translator reads that as

    'I believe that humans are far more precious than we can ever hope or dream to imagine and that humans are worthy of dignity and respect but sex and the body are dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty [SIZE="1"]dirty dirty dirty dirty dirty........[/SIZE]'

    Which is nonsense.

    I've not advocated such a view, and I wouldn't. In the right context, sexuality is something which is intrinsically important. Outside of that context, it is warped.
    bluewolf wrote: »
    I long for the day you grow up, have sex, and realise a healthy sex life and loving relationships are not mutually exclusive, and that casual sex does not preclude having the latter at a later date

    The usual, because I disagree with you that I need to grow up :)

    Why not lose the ad-hominems and have a proper discussion?

    My point was rather simple. It's not healthy IMO to view people as sex objects first, and people second. I thought that was relatively rudimentary.
    hooradiation wrote: »
    That sounds so wretchedly dull, may you never get your wish.

    What's wretchedly dull about walking through life with someone you really love and care for? Personally, that's something I really long for.

    That's one of the most beautiful things that mankind can even fathom. Why would that be dull?


    Ad hominem bla bla bla. Use as many fancy words as you want, your attitude to sex is warped.


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