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Mens Rights Thread

  • 14-06-2012 6:21pm
    #1
    Woodward
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Woodward


    Ok I'm pretty new here but I havent been able to find a thread on this topic


    Are any of you here involved in the Mens Rights or Masculinist Movements? Is there any organised male orientated rights associations in Ireland except for Fathers Rights?
    Tagged:


«134567…105

Comments

  • #2
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    Woodward wrote: »
    Ok I'm pretty new here but I havent been able to find a thread on this topic

    Are any of you here involved in the Mens Rights or Masculinist Movements? Is there any organised male orientated rights associations in Ireland except for Fathers Rights?
    I'm interested in the issue. But not aware of any groups .


  • #3
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Woodward wrote: »
    Ok I'm pretty new here but I havent been able to find a thread on this topic


    Are any of you here involved in the Mens Rights or Masculinist Movements? Is there any organised male orientated rights associations in Ireland except for Fathers Rights?

    the anti-women kind?


  • #4
    Woodward
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Woodward


    PucaMama wrote: »
    the anti-women kind?


    No, the mens liberation kind. I dont know of any that are anti women although there are many people who are anti radical feminism. Masculinism is about freeing men from gender stereotypes and the pressure to 'man up' and suppress their emotions and act 'manly'


  • #5
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Woodward wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    the anti-women kind?


    No, the mens liberation kind. I dont know of any that are anti women although there are many people who are anti radical feminism. Masculinism is about freeing men from gender stereotypes and the pressure to 'man up' and suppress their emotions and act 'manly'
    Oh I see I dont think ive heard of them but u never know they are more than likely around somewhere


  • #6
    General Relativity
    Closed Accounts Posts: 683 ✭✭✭General Relativity


    PucaMama wrote: »
    the anti-women kind?

    No. The kind that wan't equal rights for men around the areas of childcare, paternity leave, insurance, etc.


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  • #7
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    I don't believe their is such an organisation. It would most likely be laughed at or ridiculed from certain other groups or suggestions made about its ethos like the poster above.


  • #8
    Woodward
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Woodward


    py2006 wrote: »
    I don't believe their is such an organisation. It would most likely be laughed at or ridiculed from certain other groups or suggestions made about its ethos like the poster above.


    Do you think there would be enough interest to establish one? I know it is a pretty big movement on youtube and reddit but a lot of those activists are from the US where the problem is much, much worse. Some callers in on radio stations and talk shows have hinted at the issues the MRM deal with but I dont know if an Irish mens rights organization could get off the ground


  • #9
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    I think those that would be interested in such a group would be men who have fallen foul to the legal system in relation to divorce and children etc. Which from reading boards over the years would seem to be quite a lot.

    Aside from that, it would be difficult to get a lot of men involved because men 'just don't care' strongly enough about those things. I'd like to think I am wrong on this.


  • #10
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Woodward wrote: »
    Do you think there would be enough interest to establish one? I know it is a pretty big movement on youtube and reddit but a lot of those activists are from the US where the problem is much, much worse. Some callers in on radio stations and talk shows have hinted at the issues the MRM deal with but I dont know if an Irish mens rights organization could get off the ground

    It's an excellent idea but unfortunately Men have become incredibly passive in recent decades, as they have been pounded by the women's movements. The result is that they don't stand up for themselves until they themselves are screwed.

    The whole divorce court setup, the fathers rights, paternity leave and other issues are hurting thousands and thousands of guys every year but at the moment it's not seen as cool to fight back.

    It will take a few guys with balls enough to persevere to get this kind of group off the ground I fear.


  • #11
    Piste
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    I would completely support a men's right's movement. I'd think it sad that it would have to be seperate from the Irish Feminist Network or any women's right movement. It'd be nice to have an all-encompassing Gender Egalitarianism movement that discussed, lobbied for and raised awareness of gender issues affecting both men and women.


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  • #12
    Woodward
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Woodward


    Piste wrote: »
    I would completely support a men's right's movement. I'd think it sad that it would have to be seperate from the Irish Feminist Network or any women's right movement. It'd be nice to have an all-encompassing Gender Egalitarianism movement that discussed, lobbied for and raised awareness of gender issues affecting both men and women.


    Ideally that would be the case but the gender feminists are too deeply engrained in the whole feminist movement to allow that to happen. Their obsession with patriarchy and post modernist thinking means the are by and large opposed to the mens rights movement and do not cooperate, at least in my experience


  • #13
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Piste wrote: »
    I would completely support a men's right's movement. I'd think it sad that it would have to be seperate from the Irish Feminist Network or any women's right movement. It'd be nice to have an all-encompassing Gender Egalitarianism movement that discussed, lobbied for and raised awareness of gender issues affecting both men and women.

    Sadly that is a pipe dream. Most of the agenda of IFN and other similar organisations is to marginalise and demonise men and our rights.


  • #14
    Tym
    Closed Accounts Posts: 235 ✭✭Tym


    I know it is a pretty big movement on youtube and reddit but a lot of those activists are from the US where the problem is much, much worse.

    Hmmm some would say America is rather patriarchal?


  • #15
    Piste
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    Woodward wrote: »
    Ideally that would be the case but the gender feminists are too deeply engrained in the whole feminist movement to allow that to happen. Their obsession with patriarchy and post modernist thinking means the are by and large opposed to the mens rights movement and do not cooperate, at least in my experience

    To be honest I haven't found a lot of feminists to be against men's rights per se, just ignorant of the areas in which men are at a disadvantage compared to women. I'd imagine were it more well known how men are disadvantaged when it comes to family law then there would be more women on their side. Of course there will be those who see male disadvantage as the price men have to pay for male privilege and there will always be a "you made your bed so lie in it" mentality.


  • #16
    utyh2ikcq9z76b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭utyh2ikcq9z76b


    Here's some info for you guys:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism

    Don't think many can object to the issues that arise from being a man


  • #17
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    Piste wrote: »
    Of course there will be those who see male disadvantage as the price men have to pay for male privilege and there will always be a "you made your bed so lie in it" mentality.

    I am not sure I follow you here. Can you elaborate?


  • #18
    Tym
    Closed Accounts Posts: 235 ✭✭Tym


    I am not sure I follow you here. Can you elaborate?

    Eh, I kind of agree that there would be that mentality. Some poeple would argue that one of the reasons why women get more rights when it comes to children is because they were potrayed as the natural nurterer of the family when Ireland was a patriarchal society, and men were seen as breadwinners (which kept women out of a lot of jobs, especially when they had children), so some people would believe the lie in your own bed mentality.


  • #19
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    Tym wrote: »
    Eh, I kind of agree that there would be that mentality. Some poeple would argue that one of the reasons why women get more rights when it comes to children is because they were potrayed as the natural nurterer of the family when Ireland was a patriarchal society, and men were seen as breadwinners (which kept women out of a lot of jobs, especially when they had children), so some people would believe the lie in your own bed mentality.

    Oh right, I get you now. The word privilege threw me off a bit.

    Yea, it was more acceptable when those laws were made that the genders and specific roles.

    Obviously, its high tide that these laws are amended. Unfortunately, you don't hear much of a rallying call for it though.


  • #20
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Piliger wrote: »
    Sadly that is a pipe dream. Most of the agenda of IFN and other similar organisations is to marginalise and demonise men and our rights.





    Is that true?

    Any examples you can link to?

    http://www.irishfeministnetwork.org/mission-statement.html


  • #21
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Piste wrote: »
    Woodward wrote: »
    Ideally that would be the case but the gender feminists are too deeplwy engrained in the whole feminist movement to allow that to happen. Their obsession with patriarchy and post modernist thinking means the are by and large opposed to the mens rights movement and do not cooperate, at least in my experience

    To be honest I haven't found a lot of feminists to be against men's rights per se, just ignorant of the areas in which men are at a disadvantage compared to women. I'd imagine were it more well known how men are disadvantaged when it comes to family law then there would be more women on their side. Of course there will be those who see male disadvantage as the price men have to pay for male privilege and there will always be a "you made your bed so lie in it" mentality.
    aside from family law, how are men disadvantaged in ireland? And who do they say are to blame?


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  • #22
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    PucaMama wrote: »
    aside from family law, how are men disadvantaged in ireland?
    Prison conditions is one.

    And some feminists propose that women should be treated even more differently.
    From a Seanad debate:
    http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0189/S.0189.200805200002.html
    Senator Ivana Bacik:
    This week, we are fortunate to receive a visit from Baroness Jean Corston from the British House of L[817]ords who produced a very radical report last year on women in prison and who recommended, after a very thorough review, that prison places for women should essentially be abolished and that there should just be a small number of small detention units for women. Otherwise, alternative sanctions should be used. We could very much learn from the lessons of that report.

    I am happy to say that Baroness Corston will be visiting Leinster House on Thursday. Deputy Mary O’Rourke and I are hosting a meeting with her for all women Members of the Oireachtas. I am sorry that we cannot invite any male colleagues interested in this issue to the briefing with Baroness Corston.

    Senator David Norris: Why not?

    Senator Ivana Bacik: I would be happy to meet them to discuss the issues at another time.
    The Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice will also host a seminar on Thursday evening on the future of women’s imprisonment. This is an issue which we could very usefully debate in this House and could lead the way in calling for a critical review of women’s imprisonment, as Baroness Corston has done in Great Britain.

    And family law covers a big area.


  • #23
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    iptba wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    aside from family law, how are men disadvantaged in ireland?
    Prison conditions is one.

    And family law covers a big area.

    Well prison would be the last on my list. They are not in there just for being males.

    The usual gripe with family law is women being left with the children as far as I no.

    Anything else?


  • #24
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    iptba wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    aside from family law, how are men disadvantaged in ireland?
    Prison conditions is one.

    And some feminists propose that women should be treated even more differently.
    From a Seanad debate:
    http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0189/S.0189.200805200002.html
    Senator Ivana Bacik:
    This week, we are fortunate to receive a visit from Baroness Jean Corston from the British House of L[817]ords who produced a very radical report last year on women in prison and who recommended, after a very thorough review, that prison places for women should essentially be abolished and that there should just be a small number of small detention units for women. Otherwise, alternative sanctions should be used. We could very much learn from the lessons of that report.

    I am happy to say that Baroness Corston will be visiting Leinster House on Thursday. Deputy Mary O’Rourke and I are hosting a meeting with her for all women Members of the Oireachtas. I am sorry that we cannot invite any male colleagues interested in this issue to the briefing with Baroness Corston.

    Senator David Norris: Why not?

    Senator Ivana Bacik: I would be happy to meet them to discuss the issues at another time.
    The Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice will also host a seminar on Thursday evening on the future of women’s imprisonment. This is an issue which we could very usefully debate in this House and could lead the way in calling for a critical review of women’s imprisonment, as Baroness Corston has done in Great Britain.

    And family law covers a big area.
    Im more interested in the rights of my law abiding brothers, uncles, father, friends etc than criminals


  • #25
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Well prison would be the last on my list. They are not in there just for being males.
    I don't mind so much what people want for the sentence - that can be a big debate and can be separated from the gender issue. I do have a problem with the fact that it appears that for the same crime, women may be more likely to get a suspended or lenient sentence (although the data may not be conclusive) and that, and this is more conclusive, the conditions faced during a sentence are different for men and women. And, as I pointed out when I edited the last post, there is a movement to increase the difference in treatment.

    Just because you're not interested in criminals doesn't mean nobody else can or should be.


  • #26
    christmas2012
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,827 ✭✭✭christmas2012


    i can understand womens rights not sure about mens dont they have more rights?


  • #27
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    iptba wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Well prison would be the last on my list. They are not in there just for being males.
    I don't mind so much what people want for the sentence - that can be a big debate and can be separated from the gender issue. I do have a problem with the fact that it appears that for the same crime, women may be more likely to get a suspended or lenient sentence (although the data may not be conclusive) and that, and this is more conclusive, the conditions faced during a sentence are different for men and women. And, as I pointed out when I edited the last post, there is a movement to increase the difference in treatment.

    Just because you're not interested in criminals doesn't mean nobody else can or should be.
    I am aware conditions in mens prisons are bad. There is a lot of overcrowding as far as I no. Are womens prisons newer? With lower populations? Couldnt this have an affect on the diffrence in conditions.


  • #28
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    PucaMama wrote: »
    I am aware conditions in mens prisons are bad. There is a lot of overcrowding as far as I no. Are womens prisons newer? With lower populations? Couldnt this have an affect on the diffrence in conditions.
    If women had to go to go to the toilet in buckets in shared cells, and sleep in that area overnight with the smell, etc. while men didn't, and this continued for decades, I think it would be highlighted as a gender equality issue.

    I remember this happening in the 1990s in Mountjoy. What happened? They built a cosier prison complex for ... the women prisoners.

    ---
    ETA: I believe the planned Thornton prison has/had different plans for male and female prisoners (e.g. I think single cells for female prisoners, but many or all shared for the male prisoners).


  • #29
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    iptba wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    I am aware conditions in mens prisons are bad. There is a lot of overcrowding as far as I no. Are womens prisons newer? With lower populations? Couldnt this have an affect on the diffrence in conditions.
    If women had to go to go to the toilet in buckets in shared cells, and sleep in that area overnight while men didn't, and this continued for decades, I think it would be highlighted as a gender equality issue.

    I remember this happening in the 1990s in Mountjoy. What happened? They built a cosier prison complex for ... the women prisoners.

    But is there no other issues that affect those in the general population?? Those of us who have not earned having to pee in a bucket. Something in every day life.


  • #30
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Piste wrote: »
    Of course there will be those who see male disadvantage as the price men have to pay for male privilege and there will always be a "you made your bed so lie in it" mentality.
    Same as there are people who blame current Jewish people for killing Jesus.


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  • #31
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Im more interested in the rights of my law abiding brothers, uncles, father, friends etc than criminals
    So you would be concerned if a woman who assaulted/robbed/killed your law-abiding uncles/brothers etc. was not committed to prison?


  • #32
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Im more interested in the rights of my law abiding brothers, uncles, father, friends etc than criminals
    So you would be concerned if a woman who assaulted/robbed/killed your law-abiding uncles/brothers etc. was not committed to prison?

    Of course. And before its said both men and women have got away with assault.


  • #33
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Well prison would be the last on my list. They are not in there just for being males.

    The usual gripe with family law is women being left with the children as far as I no.

    Anything else?

    The issues a lot of men face in relation to Family Law is hardly a "gripe".

    I am not certain if you are merely here to try to derail the thread by being dismissive of any issues relating to men or not.


  • #34
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    PucaMama wrote: »
    Of course. And before its said both men and women have got away with assault.
    I was referring to the quoted legal reforms proposed by Ivana Bacik that would see a virtual end to the imprisonment of female criminals.


  • #35
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Of course. And before its said both men and women have got away with assault.
    I was referring to the quoted legal reforms proposed by Ivana Bacik that would see a virtual end to the imprisonment of female criminals.
    No it wouldnt. But it might just see womens prisons loseing empty spaces. If not as many women are in prison we could close a few down save money.


  • #36
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    py2006 wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Well prison would be the last on my list. They are not in there just for being males.

    The usual gripe with family law is women being left with the children as far as I no.

    Anything else?

    The issues a lot of men face in relation to Family Law is hardly a "gripe".

    I am not certain if you are merely here to try to derail the thread by being dismissive of any issues relating to men or not.
    Not here to derail. Here to discuss.


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  • #37
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    PucaMama wrote: »
    No it wouldnt. But it might just see womens prisons loseing empty spaces. If not as many women are in prison we could close a few down save money.
    If we don't imprison any men, we could close those too and save a packet. :confused:


  • #38
    PucaMama
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭PucaMama


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    No it wouldnt. But it might just see womens prisons loseing empty spaces. If not as many women are in prison we could close a few down save money.
    If we don't imprison any men, we could close those too and save a packet. :confused:
    I mention getting rid of unused empty space in prisons not taking in less women? Population difference is already there?

    Edit im going to leave and come back when ive a clearer head to discuss


  • #39
    James Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 534 ✭✭✭James Jones


    Family Law and the discrimination against men in the secret courts where they can be sent to jail for even talking about what happened to them is not the only discrimination that men face.
    We live in a democracy where every adult can stand for election but that freedom will soon be interfered with by legislation enforcing gender quotas HERE even though any women who wants to get elected can go through the same process as men. However, you will not see such calls for gender quotas in Nursing, Childcare, Teaching or Social Work nor will you hear anyone calling for gender quotas on bin lorries, fishing boats or any other dirty, dangerous work place.
    Mothers who adopt children are entitled to the same maternity leave as mothers who gave birth after pregnancy HERE but adoptive fathers cannot.

    In relation to sentencing, the story HERE is reflective of how men are discriminated against:
    "A consultant surgeon who defrauded almost €750,000 from insurance companies through an "evil and nasty" fraudulent breast cancer claim has been jailed for four years.
    Emad Massoud (52) of Woodview, Brownstown, Ratoath, Co Meath and his wife, Gehan Massoud (45), a nurse, were convicted by a jury last month following a three week trial.
    Yesterday, at Dublin's Circuit Criminal Court, Judge Patrick McCartan imposed a three-year sentence on Gehan Massoud, which he suspended because he said he didn't want both parents, who have four young daughters, to be jailed at the same time"    .

    Also, men in Ireland who stand up to discrimination have to contend with a very biased media. See case HERE.

    I firmly believe that discrimination against men will continue until society sees both men and women as being equal partners when it comes to parenting. See article HERE.


  • #40
    yawha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭yawha


    Woodward wrote: »
    Masculinism is about freeing men from gender stereotypes and the pressure to 'man up' and suppress their emotions and act 'manly'
    I firmly believe that the social enforcement of the "manly" stereotype is the root cause of a lot of the injustices that men face, yet I rarely see it focused on all that much when I read men's rights discussions.


  • #41
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    No takers?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79269008&postcount=20


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  • #42
    Woodward
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Woodward


    yawha wrote: »
    I firmly believe that the social enforcement of the "manly" stereotype is the root cause of a lot of the injustices that men face, yet I rarely see it focused on all that much when I read men's rights discussions.

    Yea many MRA's tend to focus on bitching about feminism rather than gender roles. Masculinism tends to focus more on gender roles than the mainstream MRM


  • #43
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Is that true?

    Any examples you can link to?

    http://www.irishfeministnetwork.org/mission-statement.html

    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Merely linking to a mission statement means or proves nothing. Mission statements are generic text thrown together at the formation process of an organisation and not necessarily something strictly adhered to.

    The organisation may have good intentions towards gender equality but some of the individuals associated with it are misguided and often deluded.


  • #44
    Woodward
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Woodward


    py2006 wrote: »
    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Merely linking to a mission statement means or proves nothing. Mission statements are generic text thrown together at the formation process of an organisation and not necessarily something strictly adhered to.

    The organisation may have good intentions towards gender equality but some of the individuals associated with it are misguided and often deluded.


    +1

    The feminist society at my old university had a statement much the same as the IFN but what they do and what they say they do are completely different. They only dealt with womens issues and they werent interested in equal treatment per se, rather, they were interested in any area of life that women find tough or struggle with and then push for special treatment for women to eradicate it, even if men have to face similar issues.

    They were quite hostile too. On international womens day they had stalls up around campus detailing womens achievements and I got talking to one about Marie Curie. She (an Arts student) went ballistic at me (a chemistry student) when I pointed out inaccuracies in her data insofar as she accredited some of Curies husbands achievements to her. I also pointed out that they worked as a team for most of their career and that most chemists talk about them as the Curies, rather than just Marie Curie which is generally only used when talking about specific discoveries or when they are trying to push for the establishment of women only scholarships. Apparently I am an example of the hegemonic patriarchy which is actively seeking to suppress womens achievements:confused:


  • #45
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    py2006 wrote: »
    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Merely linking to a mission statement means or proves nothing. Mission statements are generic text thrown together at the formation process of an organisation and not necessarily something strictly adhered to.

    The organisation may have good intentions towards gender equality but some of the individuals associated with it are misguided and often deluded.




    I wasn't trying to prove anything. It was just a link to the IFN's mission statement, where at the least they make statements that are supportive of gender equality.

    However, what I was doing was looking for some sources -- specifically IFN sources -- to back this assertion:
    Piliger wrote: »
    Sadly that is a pipe dream. Most of the agenda of IFN and other similar organisations is to marginalise and demonise men and our rights.


    I'm not saying it's untrue, but some concrete examples would help to underline the point.


  • #46
    Piliger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,741 ✭✭✭Piliger


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    I'm not saying it's untrue, but some concrete examples would help to underline the point.

    The sad reality about the feminism movement, and it is hardly surprising when you think about it, is that it acts to promote women's issues and women's right. It has never sought equality per se. Ever.

    Look at the campaigns for maternity leave. Feminist groups only fought to have breaks for mothers, not fathers. Look at their attitudes toward rape. They consistently call for every accused man to be found guilty. They consistently campaign to have the rape accused's rights reduced and diminished at every opportunity. They consistently oppose anonymity for the alleged victim but not for the accused. They consistently campaign for women who falsely accuse men of rape to be released and not prosecuted and for their anonymity to remain ! even though the accused's reputation has now been trashed !

    Feminist groups protest about every instance of advertising that they deem inappropriate but they do nothing about violence against men on TV and in advertising being treated as comical. They protest against 'sexist' images of women, but don't make a squeak about the widespread sexist images of men. They consistent deride and denigrate any organisation that seeks to stand up for men.

    On the one had it is hardly surprising. Men did controlled the world and everything in it for a hell of the long time. But that day is long gone. If anything, women are in the driving seat now. But because of a kind of cultural guilt by men for this previous dominance, we have passively allowed the pendulum to swing completely the other way without any kind of balanced push back.

    Feminist movements wreak havoc against men's rights because we don't stand up and form any kind of push back movement to ensure there is some balance. Because that is all that men should really seek to achieve, balance. At the moment we have no balance.


  • #47
    Woodward
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭Woodward


    Piliger wrote: »
    The sad reality about the feminism movement, and it is hardly surprising when you think about it, is that it acts to promote women's issues and women's right. It has never sought equality per se. Ever.

    Look at the campaigns for maternity leave. Feminist groups only fought to have breaks for mothers, not fathers. Look at their attitudes toward rape. They consistently call for every accused man to be found guilty. They consistently campaign to have the rape accused's rights reduced and diminished at every opportunity. They consistently oppose anonymity for the alleged victim but not for the accused. They consistently campaign for women who falsely accuse men of rape to be released and not prosecuted and for their anonymity to remain ! even though the accused's reputation has now been trashed !

    Feminist groups protest about every instance of advertising that they deem inappropriate but they do nothing about violence against men on TV and in advertising being treated as comical. They protest against 'sexist' images of women, but don't make a squeak about the widespread sexist images of men. They consistent deride and denigrate any organisation that seeks to stand up for men.

    On the one had it is hardly surprising. Men did controlled the world and everything in it for a hell of the long time. But that day is long gone. If anything, women are in the driving seat now. But because of a kind of cultural guilt by men for this previous dominance, we have passively allowed the pendulum to swing completely the other way without any kind of balanced push back.

    Feminist movements wreak havoc against men's rights because we don't stand up and form any kind of push back movement to ensure there is some balance. Because that is all that men should really seek to achieve, balance. At the moment we have no balance.


    I would disagree here. Both genders had their role to play in the survival of society and those roles evolved to suit the biological advantages of each gender which in turn evolved to suit the role. Both genders were oppressed by these roles. In terms of voting and land owning privileges it wasnt so much a case of gender discrimination than class discrimination. Most men couldnt vote either, it was only the rich and powerful who had that privilege


  • #48
    yawha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 695 ✭✭✭yawha


    Piliger wrote: »
    The sad reality about the feminism movement, and it is hardly surprising when you think about it, is that it acts to promote women's issues and women's right. It has never sought equality per se. Ever.

    Look at the campaigns for maternity leave. Feminist groups only fought to have breaks for mothers, not fathers. Look at their attitudes toward rape. They consistently call for every accused man to be found guilty. They consistently campaign to have the rape accused's rights reduced and diminished at every opportunity. They consistently oppose anonymity for the alleged victim but not for the accused. They consistently campaign for women who falsely accuse men of rape to be released and not prosecuted and for their anonymity to remain ! even though the accused's reputation has now been trashed !

    Feminist groups protest about every instance of advertising that they deem inappropriate but they do nothing about violence against men on TV and in advertising being treated as comical. They protest against 'sexist' images of women, but don't make a squeak about the widespread sexist images of men. They consistent deride and denigrate any organisation that seeks to stand up for men.

    On the one had it is hardly surprising. Men did controlled the world and everything in it for a hell of the long time. But that day is long gone. If anything, women are in the driving seat now. But because of a kind of cultural guilt by men for this previous dominance, we have passively allowed the pendulum to swing completely the other way without any kind of balanced push back.

    Feminist movements wreak havoc against men's rights because we don't stand up and form any kind of push back movement to ensure there is some balance. Because that is all that men should really seek to achieve, balance. At the moment we have no balance.
    You appear to be claiming that:
    • Feminists have only ever campaigned for maternity, not paternity leave
    • Feminists campaign for every man accused of rape to be found guilty
    • Feminists campaign for the reduction of rights for men accused of rape
    • Feminists campaign to remove anonymity from men accused of rape
    • Feminists campaign for women who falsely accuse men of rape to be released and not prosecuted
    • Feminists have never opposed advertising which is sexist towards men
    • Feminists deride and denigrate organisations which stand up for men

    Sources please. From mainstream Feminist organisations, preferably located in Ireland, but I'll accept organisations in the UK and USA too. Not interested in bat**** insane radical feminist blogs with a tiny support base, and no relevance and power in the real world, such as radicalhub.

    Aside from maybe family law, and a few other examples, women are in no way in the driving seat.


  • #49
    iptba
    Registered Users Posts: 4,887 ✭✭✭iptba


    yawha wrote: »
    Aside from maybe family law, and a few other examples, women are in no way in the driving seat.
    Women and feminists are in the driving seat in terms of how gender issues and gender politics are presented in education, and in terms of research that goes on in the gender field.


  • #50
    py2006
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,844 ✭✭✭py2006


    I think this thread is a perfect example of the difficulties of trying to start a discussion on male issues and rights.


  • #51
    James Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 534 ✭✭✭James Jones


    James Jones wrote: »
    Family Law and the discrimination against men in the secret courts where they can be sent to jail for even talking about what happened to them is not the only discrimination that men face.
    We live in a democracy where every adult can stand for election but that freedom will soon be interfered with by legislation enforcing gender quotas HERE even though any women who wants to get elected can go through the same process as men. However, you will not see such calls for gender quotas in Nursing, Childcare, Teaching or Social Work nor will you hear anyone calling for gender quotas on bin lorries, fishing boats or any other dirty, dangerous work place.
    Mothers who adopt children are entitled to the same maternity leave as mothers who gave birth after pregnancy HERE but adoptive fathers cannot.

    In relation to sentencing, the story HERE is reflective of how men are discriminated against:

    Also, men in Ireland who stand up to discrimination have to contend with a very biased media. See case HERE.

    I firmly believe that discrimination against men will continue until society sees both men and women as being equal partners when it comes to parenting. See article HERE.

    I forgot the discrimination faced by men when it comes to the exclusion of their relationship with their children from the census HERE.


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