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Mens Rights Thread

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  • PucaMama wrote: »
    Im more interested in the rights of my law abiding brothers, uncles, father, friends etc than criminals
    So you would be concerned if a woman who assaulted/robbed/killed your law-abiding uncles/brothers etc. was not committed to prison?

    Of course. And before its said both men and women have got away with assault.




  • PucaMama wrote: »
    Well prison would be the last on my list. They are not in there just for being males.

    The usual gripe with family law is women being left with the children as far as I no.

    Anything else?

    The issues a lot of men face in relation to Family Law is hardly a "gripe".

    I am not certain if you are merely here to try to derail the thread by being dismissive of any issues relating to men or not.




  • PucaMama wrote: »
    Of course. And before its said both men and women have got away with assault.
    I was referring to the quoted legal reforms proposed by Ivana Bacik that would see a virtual end to the imprisonment of female criminals.




  • PucaMama wrote: »
    Of course. And before its said both men and women have got away with assault.
    I was referring to the quoted legal reforms proposed by Ivana Bacik that would see a virtual end to the imprisonment of female criminals.
    No it wouldnt. But it might just see womens prisons loseing empty spaces. If not as many women are in prison we could close a few down save money.




  • py2006 wrote: »
    PucaMama wrote: »
    Well prison would be the last on my list. They are not in there just for being males.

    The usual gripe with family law is women being left with the children as far as I no.

    Anything else?

    The issues a lot of men face in relation to Family Law is hardly a "gripe".

    I am not certain if you are merely here to try to derail the thread by being dismissive of any issues relating to men or not.
    Not here to derail. Here to discuss.


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  • PucaMama wrote: »
    No it wouldnt. But it might just see womens prisons loseing empty spaces. If not as many women are in prison we could close a few down save money.
    If we don't imprison any men, we could close those too and save a packet. :confused:




  • PucaMama wrote: »
    No it wouldnt. But it might just see womens prisons loseing empty spaces. If not as many women are in prison we could close a few down save money.
    If we don't imprison any men, we could close those too and save a packet. :confused:
    I mention getting rid of unused empty space in prisons not taking in less women? Population difference is already there?

    Edit im going to leave and come back when ive a clearer head to discuss




  • Family Law and the discrimination against men in the secret courts where they can be sent to jail for even talking about what happened to them is not the only discrimination that men face.
    We live in a democracy where every adult can stand for election but that freedom will soon be interfered with by legislation enforcing gender quotas HERE even though any women who wants to get elected can go through the same process as men. However, you will not see such calls for gender quotas in Nursing, Childcare, Teaching or Social Work nor will you hear anyone calling for gender quotas on bin lorries, fishing boats or any other dirty, dangerous work place.
    Mothers who adopt children are entitled to the same maternity leave as mothers who gave birth after pregnancy HERE but adoptive fathers cannot.

    In relation to sentencing, the story HERE is reflective of how men are discriminated against:
    "A consultant surgeon who defrauded almost €750,000 from insurance companies through an "evil and nasty" fraudulent breast cancer claim has been jailed for four years.
    Emad Massoud (52) of Woodview, Brownstown, Ratoath, Co Meath and his wife, Gehan Massoud (45), a nurse, were convicted by a jury last month following a three week trial.
    Yesterday, at Dublin's Circuit Criminal Court, Judge Patrick McCartan imposed a three-year sentence on Gehan Massoud, which he suspended because he said he didn't want both parents, who have four young daughters, to be jailed at the same time"
    .

    Also, men in Ireland who stand up to discrimination have to contend with a very biased media. See case HERE.

    I firmly believe that discrimination against men will continue until society sees both men and women as being equal partners when it comes to parenting. See article HERE.




  • Woodward wrote: »
    Masculinism is about freeing men from gender stereotypes and the pressure to 'man up' and suppress their emotions and act 'manly'
    I firmly believe that the social enforcement of the "manly" stereotype is the root cause of a lot of the injustices that men face, yet I rarely see it focused on all that much when I read men's rights discussions.


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  • yawha wrote: »
    I firmly believe that the social enforcement of the "manly" stereotype is the root cause of a lot of the injustices that men face, yet I rarely see it focused on all that much when I read men's rights discussions.

    Yea many MRA's tend to focus on bitching about feminism rather than gender roles. Masculinism tends to focus more on gender roles than the mainstream MRM




  • Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Is that true?

    Any examples you can link to?

    http://www.irishfeministnetwork.org/mission-statement.html

    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Merely linking to a mission statement means or proves nothing. Mission statements are generic text thrown together at the formation process of an organisation and not necessarily something strictly adhered to.

    The organisation may have good intentions towards gender equality but some of the individuals associated with it are misguided and often deluded.




  • py2006 wrote: »
    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Merely linking to a mission statement means or proves nothing. Mission statements are generic text thrown together at the formation process of an organisation and not necessarily something strictly adhered to.

    The organisation may have good intentions towards gender equality but some of the individuals associated with it are misguided and often deluded.


    +1

    The feminist society at my old university had a statement much the same as the IFN but what they do and what they say they do are completely different. They only dealt with womens issues and they werent interested in equal treatment per se, rather, they were interested in any area of life that women find tough or struggle with and then push for special treatment for women to eradicate it, even if men have to face similar issues.

    They were quite hostile too. On international womens day they had stalls up around campus detailing womens achievements and I got talking to one about Marie Curie. She (an Arts student) went ballistic at me (a chemistry student) when I pointed out inaccuracies in her data insofar as she accredited some of Curies husbands achievements to her. I also pointed out that they worked as a team for most of their career and that most chemists talk about them as the Curies, rather than just Marie Curie which is generally only used when talking about specific discoveries or when they are trying to push for the establishment of women only scholarships. Apparently I am an example of the hegemonic patriarchy which is actively seeking to suppress womens achievements:confused:




  • py2006 wrote: »
    I am not sure what point you are trying to make. Merely linking to a mission statement means or proves nothing. Mission statements are generic text thrown together at the formation process of an organisation and not necessarily something strictly adhered to.

    The organisation may have good intentions towards gender equality but some of the individuals associated with it are misguided and often deluded.




    I wasn't trying to prove anything. It was just a link to the IFN's mission statement, where at the least they make statements that are supportive of gender equality.

    However, what I was doing was looking for some sources -- specifically IFN sources -- to back this assertion:
    Piliger wrote: »
    Sadly that is a pipe dream. Most of the agenda of IFN and other similar organisations is to marginalise and demonise men and our rights.


    I'm not saying it's untrue, but some concrete examples would help to underline the point.




  • Iwannahurl wrote: »
    I'm not saying it's untrue, but some concrete examples would help to underline the point.

    The sad reality about the feminism movement, and it is hardly surprising when you think about it, is that it acts to promote women's issues and women's right. It has never sought equality per se. Ever.

    Look at the campaigns for maternity leave. Feminist groups only fought to have breaks for mothers, not fathers. Look at their attitudes toward rape. They consistently call for every accused man to be found guilty. They consistently campaign to have the rape accused's rights reduced and diminished at every opportunity. They consistently oppose anonymity for the alleged victim but not for the accused. They consistently campaign for women who falsely accuse men of rape to be released and not prosecuted and for their anonymity to remain ! even though the accused's reputation has now been trashed !

    Feminist groups protest about every instance of advertising that they deem inappropriate but they do nothing about violence against men on TV and in advertising being treated as comical. They protest against 'sexist' images of women, but don't make a squeak about the widespread sexist images of men. They consistent deride and denigrate any organisation that seeks to stand up for men.

    On the one had it is hardly surprising. Men did controlled the world and everything in it for a hell of the long time. But that day is long gone. If anything, women are in the driving seat now. But because of a kind of cultural guilt by men for this previous dominance, we have passively allowed the pendulum to swing completely the other way without any kind of balanced push back.

    Feminist movements wreak havoc against men's rights because we don't stand up and form any kind of push back movement to ensure there is some balance. Because that is all that men should really seek to achieve, balance. At the moment we have no balance.




  • Piliger wrote: »
    The sad reality about the feminism movement, and it is hardly surprising when you think about it, is that it acts to promote women's issues and women's right. It has never sought equality per se. Ever.

    Look at the campaigns for maternity leave. Feminist groups only fought to have breaks for mothers, not fathers. Look at their attitudes toward rape. They consistently call for every accused man to be found guilty. They consistently campaign to have the rape accused's rights reduced and diminished at every opportunity. They consistently oppose anonymity for the alleged victim but not for the accused. They consistently campaign for women who falsely accuse men of rape to be released and not prosecuted and for their anonymity to remain ! even though the accused's reputation has now been trashed !

    Feminist groups protest about every instance of advertising that they deem inappropriate but they do nothing about violence against men on TV and in advertising being treated as comical. They protest against 'sexist' images of women, but don't make a squeak about the widespread sexist images of men. They consistent deride and denigrate any organisation that seeks to stand up for men.

    On the one had it is hardly surprising. Men did controlled the world and everything in it for a hell of the long time. But that day is long gone. If anything, women are in the driving seat now. But because of a kind of cultural guilt by men for this previous dominance, we have passively allowed the pendulum to swing completely the other way without any kind of balanced push back.

    Feminist movements wreak havoc against men's rights because we don't stand up and form any kind of push back movement to ensure there is some balance. Because that is all that men should really seek to achieve, balance. At the moment we have no balance.


    I would disagree here. Both genders had their role to play in the survival of society and those roles evolved to suit the biological advantages of each gender which in turn evolved to suit the role. Both genders were oppressed by these roles. In terms of voting and land owning privileges it wasnt so much a case of gender discrimination than class discrimination. Most men couldnt vote either, it was only the rich and powerful who had that privilege




  • Piliger wrote: »
    The sad reality about the feminism movement, and it is hardly surprising when you think about it, is that it acts to promote women's issues and women's right. It has never sought equality per se. Ever.

    Look at the campaigns for maternity leave. Feminist groups only fought to have breaks for mothers, not fathers. Look at their attitudes toward rape. They consistently call for every accused man to be found guilty. They consistently campaign to have the rape accused's rights reduced and diminished at every opportunity. They consistently oppose anonymity for the alleged victim but not for the accused. They consistently campaign for women who falsely accuse men of rape to be released and not prosecuted and for their anonymity to remain ! even though the accused's reputation has now been trashed !

    Feminist groups protest about every instance of advertising that they deem inappropriate but they do nothing about violence against men on TV and in advertising being treated as comical. They protest against 'sexist' images of women, but don't make a squeak about the widespread sexist images of men. They consistent deride and denigrate any organisation that seeks to stand up for men.

    On the one had it is hardly surprising. Men did controlled the world and everything in it for a hell of the long time. But that day is long gone. If anything, women are in the driving seat now. But because of a kind of cultural guilt by men for this previous dominance, we have passively allowed the pendulum to swing completely the other way without any kind of balanced push back.

    Feminist movements wreak havoc against men's rights because we don't stand up and form any kind of push back movement to ensure there is some balance. Because that is all that men should really seek to achieve, balance. At the moment we have no balance.
    You appear to be claiming that:
    • Feminists have only ever campaigned for maternity, not paternity leave
    • Feminists campaign for every man accused of rape to be found guilty
    • Feminists campaign for the reduction of rights for men accused of rape
    • Feminists campaign to remove anonymity from men accused of rape
    • Feminists campaign for women who falsely accuse men of rape to be released and not prosecuted
    • Feminists have never opposed advertising which is sexist towards men
    • Feminists deride and denigrate organisations which stand up for men

    Sources please. From mainstream Feminist organisations, preferably located in Ireland, but I'll accept organisations in the UK and USA too. Not interested in bat**** insane radical feminist blogs with a tiny support base, and no relevance and power in the real world, such as radicalhub.

    Aside from maybe family law, and a few other examples, women are in no way in the driving seat.




  • yawha wrote: »
    Aside from maybe family law, and a few other examples, women are in no way in the driving seat.
    Women and feminists are in the driving seat in terms of how gender issues and gender politics are presented in education, and in terms of research that goes on in the gender field.




  • I think this thread is a perfect example of the difficulties of trying to start a discussion on male issues and rights.




  • Family Law and the discrimination against men in the secret courts where they can be sent to jail for even talking about what happened to them is not the only discrimination that men face.
    We live in a democracy where every adult can stand for election but that freedom will soon be interfered with by legislation enforcing gender quotas HERE even though any women who wants to get elected can go through the same process as men. However, you will not see such calls for gender quotas in Nursing, Childcare, Teaching or Social Work nor will you hear anyone calling for gender quotas on bin lorries, fishing boats or any other dirty, dangerous work place.
    Mothers who adopt children are entitled to the same maternity leave as mothers who gave birth after pregnancy HERE but adoptive fathers cannot.

    In relation to sentencing, the story HERE is reflective of how men are discriminated against:

    Also, men in Ireland who stand up to discrimination have to contend with a very biased media. See case HERE.

    I firmly believe that discrimination against men will continue until society sees both men and women as being equal partners when it comes to parenting. See article HERE.

    I forgot the discrimination faced by men when it comes to the exclusion of their relationship with their children from the census HERE.


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  • py2006 wrote: »
    I think this thread is a perfect example of the difficulties of trying to start a discussion on male issues and rights.

    True but it could be worse. It hasnt denigrated into the oppression olympics where each gender tries to claim they are the most oppressed yet.




  • Discrimination against men can actually be challenged as can be seen HERE.
    However, sometimes it seems it is acceptable as can be see from the complaint HERE on the article HERE.




  • Society and most probably the law may discriminate against men when it comes to domestic abuse, particularly physical abuse.

    Society will respond to a male who claims to have been abused physically with:

    a) Grow a pair
    b) hahahahhahaha
    c) Sure your bigger than her.

    The law, I'm sure, would largely laugh in the face of any man who calls the guards to say he has been assaulted by a woman.




  • py2006 wrote: »
    Society and most probably the law may discriminate against men when it comes to domestic abuse, particularly physical abuse.

    Society will respond to a male who claims to have been abused physically with:

    a) Grow a pair
    b) hahahahhahaha
    c) Sure your bigger than her.

    The law, I'm sure, would largely laugh in the face of any man who calls the guards to say he has been assaulted by a woman.

    It's not just the law that laughs. See letter in the Independent yesterday HERE.



    Do any of you know the definition of Gender Equality? According to the Dept. of Justice and Equality:
    Definition

    Gender equality is achieved when women and men enjoy the same rights and opportunities across all sectors of society, including economic participation and decision-making, and when the different behaviours, aspirations and needs of women and men are equally valued and favoured.

    However,
    The Gender Equality Division has responsibility for:
    fostering the achievement of true equality between women and men in Ireland
    implementing specific commitments in the Programme for Government on gender equality
    overseeing implementation of the National Women’s Strategy
    monitoring national and international commitments on gender equality
    reporting on gender equality issues for which other Government departments and State agencies are responsible


    Government Policy Overview

    Government policy in this area includes:
    the provision of a legal framework that provides for equal treatment of women and men
    the National Women’s Strategy 2007-2016, which is the Government’s statement of priorities in relation to the advancement of women in Irish society.
    a programme of positive action measures, including the Equality for Women Measure 2008-2013, to enhance women’s skills and to foster their engagement in areas of Irish society and decision-making where they are under-represented.




  • py2006 wrote: »
    I think this thread is a perfect example of the difficulties of trying to start a discussion on male issues and rights.

    I couldn't agree more.

    Us men are in general very passive when it comes to recognising that we need to stand up for ourselves against the women's movement. And the women's movement have a long and well oiled machinery for responding to and aggressively denouncing any effort to do so. It's hardly surprising I guess, after a hundred years of campaigning.

    The campaigns that feminist organisation have successfully carried through against men's rights to access their children, have equal paternity leave, for anti democratic quotas, and so many other issues are examples in point. The pernicious campaigns, especially in recent years, to limit the rights of men accused of rape and their public denouncements, across the board, of all men who stand accused have shown how out of control a feminist agenda becomes when there is no balancing response. This has now spread to the demonisation of all men as latent abusers. Ask any group of men about their experience of walking in parks or in schools or in any arena that involves young children and you will find ghastly stories of being made to feel guilty or suspicious.
    Their blanket support for women who have been found to have lied is shameful but hardly surprising considering their views that women should not be sent to prison, only those nasty men, who are after all the cause of all female criminality.

    The media has totally and thoroughly adopted a feminist agenda and have been completely cowed when it comes to any criticism. Read the newspapers any week and they are chock full of anti male, misandrous writings by feminist writers who have carte blanche to attack men and everything they represent. No balancing content ever appears and anyone who attempts to response is immediately targeted as misogynistic.




  • py2006 wrote: »
    I think this thread is a perfect example of the difficulties of trying to start a discussion on male issues and rights.
    How so?




  • Piliger wrote: »
    The campaigns that feminist organisation have successfully carried through against men's rights to access their children, have equal paternity leave, for anti democratic quotas, and so many other issues are examples in point. The pernicious campaigns, especially in recent years, to limit the rights of men accused of rape and their public denouncements, across the board, of all men who stand accused have shown how out of control a feminist agenda becomes when there is no balancing response. This has now spread to the demonisation of all men as latent abusers. Ask any group of men about their experience of walking in parks or in schools or in any arena that involves young children and you will find ghastly stories of being made to feel guilty or suspicious.
    Their blanket support for women who have been found to have lied is shameful but hardly surprising considering their views that women should not be sent to prison, only those nasty men, who are after all the cause of all female criminality.

    The media has totally and thoroughly adopted a feminist agenda and have been completely cowed when it comes to any criticism. Read the newspapers any week and they are chock full of anti male, misandrous writings by feminist writers who have carte blanche to attack men and everything they represent. No balancing content ever appears and anyone who attempts to response is immediately targeted as misogynistic.
    Which organisations? Which campaigns? Which writers? Which articles?




  • Discrimination against men can actually be challenged as can be seen HERE.
    Well done to who ever made that complaint. I have heard people gripe before with regard to how some children's charities, as well as some other charities, present men as the problem rather than a more nuanced approach.




  • Piliger wrote: »
    I couldn't agree more.

    Us men are in general very passive when it comes to recognising that we need to stand up for ourselves against the women's movement. And the women's movement have a long and well oiled machinery for responding to and aggressively denouncing any effort to do so. It's hardly surprising I guess, after a hundred years of campaigning.

    The campaigns that feminist organisation have successfully carried through against men's rights to access their children, have equal paternity leave, for anti democratic quotas, and so many other issues are examples in point. The pernicious campaigns, especially in recent years, to limit the rights of men accused of rape and their public denouncements, across the board, of all men who stand accused have shown how out of control a feminist agenda becomes when there is no balancing response. This has now spread to the demonisation of all men as latent abusers. Ask any group of men about their experience of walking in parks or in schools or in any arena that involves young children and you will find ghastly stories of being made to feel guilty or suspicious.

    Recent example:
    TUESDAY, JUNE 05, 2012

    Doctor, 73, 'kicked out of bookstore for being alone in children's section'

    Barnes & Noble has apologised to a 73-year-old man who was kicked out of one of its stores for browsing the children's section on his own.

    Dr. Omar Amin, from Scottsdale, Arizona, said he was asked to leave after a female shopper told a worker she felt uneasy about his presence.

    But the man, who is a world-renowned researcher of infectious diseases, said he was buying books for his two grandchildren.

    'This is an insult to all men not just to me,' Amin told Azfamily.com.

    'I left the store. I was upset like hell because I've been so insulted and humiliated in public for the charge of being a man.'

    http://hereticalsex.blogspot.ie/2012/06/doctor-73-kicked-out-of-bookstore-for.html


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  • I have precisely zero interest in any type of "men's rights" movement and the notion of some type of "masculine" group makes me feel quite uneasy.

    Nor do I have any interest in battling or counter-weighting feminists.

    However, equal right does interest me a lot and so does a more balanced "equal rights" movement composed of both and women.


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