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Fiscal Treaty Referendum.....How will you vote?

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    #1802
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,258 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Did you understand what you were saying no to?

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #1803
    paddy0090
    Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭paddy0090


    Dublin Red Devil wrote: »
    I voted No. The reason why? Because I really didn't understand what I would be saying yes too

    Yeah I don't buy this "well I didn't understand it...it's too complex...it's not plain english"(it's an international treaty). It's your responsibility to inform yourself. Even if you make a boll*xs of it. You inform yourself until you are satified to make a decision and vote accordingly


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    #1804
    Chucken
    Registered Users Posts: 9,459 ✭✭✭Chucken


    paddy0090 wrote: »
    Yeah I don't buy this "well I didn't understand it...it's too complex...it's not plain english"(it's an international treaty). It's your responsibility to inform yourself. Even if you make a boll*xs of it. You inform yourself until you are satified to make a decision and vote accordingly

    So how did you vote?


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    #1805
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    A suicide pact is an agreement among a number of people to kill themselves.

    D'oh! :rolleyes:


    So: did you actually mean "suicide pact", or were you just using hyperbole to try to make a point that you're incapable of making through reasoned argument?

    I'm using a metaphor to make a point I have earlier made very well - on this very thread!

    The dark cloud of the collapse of the current ECB/German scheme for saving the German Banks (of which the Suicide Pact is a part) has one silver lining - the schadenfreude I will experience recycling all your "well made points" will be mighty! ;)

    I voted "no"; when they print that t-shirt we'll have more folk wearing it than were stuffed into the GPO in 1916.


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    #1806
    ebbsy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,791 ✭✭✭ebbsy


    Did'nt vote - and it looks like I was'nt alone. Once Spain and Italy go tits up it w'ont matter anyway.


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    #1807
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    In case people miss it, we're running an exit poll: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056657467

    And, yes, it includes "didn't vote"...

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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    #1808
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    The people have decided. :(


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    #1809
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The people have decided. :(

    The B*stards ;)


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    #1810
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    The B*stards ;)

    :D:D

    Yes, the poor B*stards! ;);)


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    #1811
    DingChavez
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭DingChavez


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubw5N8iVDHI


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    #1812
    Heads the ball
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Heads the ball


    Heads the ball wrote: »
    Also you are missing a big point here.

    Th point of the current proposal is that the debts of the bank would not be the debts of the nation. The loan would go straight to the banks.

    Therefore if you bail out bankia, it is not the debt of the spanish government. If bankia goes bust i dont see how we have recourse under the current proposals.

    The article you cited applies to contracting states to the tfeu NOT to private enterprises

    This is to support my assertion yesterday that the ESM is being considered for the purposes of bailing out the banks directly and not the sovereigns.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0601/1224317058133.html


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    #1813
    porsche boy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,560 ✭✭✭porsche boy


    Nice to see the poll on this thread was accurate.
    It's been fun and all but I. am. outta here.
    Ye have made yer own mess people, like a pig in shyt, may ye wallow in it.


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    #1814
    StealthRolex
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭StealthRolex


    porsche boy wrote: »
    Nice to see the poll on this thread was accurate.
    It's been fun and all but I. am. outta here.
    Ye have made yer own mess people, like a pig in shyt, may ye wallow in it.

    That is why the etymology of democracy is, ahem, ... mob rule


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    #1815
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    StealthRolex wrote: »
    That is why the etymology of democracy is, ahem, ... mob rule

    No it's not. The etymology is "rule of the people".

    Mob, in relation to a group of people, is pejorative. :P

    You can't use a public vote in your favour one time and criticise it another. I think your fight was for a different occasion StealthRolex!


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    #1816
    StealthRolex
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭StealthRolex


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    No it's not. The etymology is "rule of the people".

    Mob, in relation to a group of people, is pejorative. :P

    You can't use a public vote in your favour one time and criticise it another. I think your fight was for a different occasion StealthRolex!

    Demos in Greek is what exactly? Hint: it's not "people"

    it is actually "Rule of the masses "

    As for mob being perjoritive - can't see how mobile vulgas , aka the fickle ones, can be described as pejorative. Historically when we are asked to vote and vote no and asked again we vote yes.


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    #1817
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Heads the ball wrote: »
    This is to support my assertion yesterday that the ESM is being considered for the purposes of bailing out the banks directly and not the sovereigns.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2012/0601/1224317058133.html

    The article, though, is a discussion of what might be desirable/possible in future. Here's direct contradiction from Olli Rehn's spokesman:
    The current plan for the European Stability Mechanism, the EU's permanent bailout vehicle, does not include direct recapitalization of banks, a spokesman for the bloc's executive arm said Thursday.

    "You have to distinguish between things; some things are possible now... some for the future," said Amadeu Altafaj Tardio, spokesman for Economic Affairs Commissioner Olli Rehn.

    "With the ESM, as it is, when it comes into force it won't cover the direct recapitalization of banks with a direct injections of funds from the ESM," he told reporters in response to a question about the fund's role.

    Is that sufficiently direct and explicit for you?

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #1818
    tiny timy
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭tiny timy


    How come every poll i seem to take NO seems to be of the higher majority, yet when it comes to the real thing its down by 20%!!!!


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    #1819
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    tiny timy wrote: »
    How come every poll i seem to take NO seems to be of the higher majority, yet when it comes to the real thing its down by 20%!!!!

    The sample population for the polls you have taken is not representative of the wider population.


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    #1820
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    StealthRolex wrote: »
    Demos in Greek is what exactly? Hint: it's not "people"

    it is actually "Rule of the masses "

    As for mob being perjoritive - can't see how mobile vulgas , aka the fickle ones, can be described as pejorative. Historically when we are asked to vote and vote no and asked again we vote yes.

    No, "demos" is "people", particularly in the sense of a body of citizenry. "Ochlos" is "mob" or "masses" in that sense, and "ochlocracy" is "mob rule":
    Demos is used four times, all in Acts, in the section where Luke described the varied conditions of the heathen world (Acts 12:22; 17:5; 19:30, 33). Each of these passages exemplifies Luke's accurate and precise use of technical terms, which is characteristic of so highly educated a man.

    The Greek demos is equivalent to the Latin populus (a people), which Cicero defined this way: "Populus is not every assembly of people gathered in any manner, but an assembly of a large number uniting together with consent of the law and for mutual benefit." Very often demos refers to an assembled group of people who are actively exercising their rights as citizens. This idea so dominates demos that "en to demo" is equivalent to "in a popular assembly," which is the way Luke invariably used demos.

    The exact opposite to demos is ochlos, the disorganized or unorganized multitude. In classical Greek, ochlos often has a certain tinge of contempt and designates those who share neither in the duties nor the privileges of free citizens.

    http://studybible.info/trench/People

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #1821
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    An unfortunate but rather predictable reaction from the 'no' side on this thread. :(


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    #1822
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    An unfortunate but rather predictable reaction from the 'no' side on this thread. :(

    Considering that they have been called everything from loons to liars and from stupid to terrorist sympathisers, the reaction from a losing Yes side might not have been very pretty either! :rolleyes:


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    #1823
    C14N
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭C14N


    tiny timy wrote: »
    How come every poll i seem to take NO seems to be of the higher majority, yet when it comes to the real thing its down by 20%!!!!

    Many people who are not registered or couldn't be bothered to vote will still give a quick click to a boards poll.


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    #1824
    StealthRolex
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭StealthRolex


    Scofflaw wrote: »
    No, "demos" is "people", particularly in the sense of a body of citizenry. "Ochlos" is "mob" or "masses" in that sense, and "ochlocracy" is "mob rule":



    http://studybible.info/trench/People

    cordially,
    Scofflaw

    "People" is but one interpretation or definition. In addition to "masses" it can also mean multitude or rabble. Depending on the context it can also mean country or "land".

    It would seem I would have been more correct to describe democracy as rabble rule. It also illiterates, which is nice.

    and it's masculine - does this imply that democracy should be a male preserve?


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    #1825
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,652 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    FreudianSlippers wrote: »
    An unfortunate but rather predictable reaction from the 'no' side on this thread. :(

    The sad thing is that so many people didn't even bother to turn out. This shows that neither side explained the matter properly. One leader in particular hid from the media. It is all a symptom of how the country is at the moment, nobody caring at all, citizen or politician. We're doomed I tell ya.


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    #1826
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/05/201252874716394428.html

    This pretty much sums it all up. :cool:

    Iceland: brave hardy people confront reality and take the hit up front.

    Ireland: the grubby-tillers and middle-class sheep fearfully imagine they can escape the day of reckoning with acts of cowardice and capitulation.


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    #1827
    Wild Bill
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    tayto lover wrote: »
    The sad thing is that so many people didn't even bother to turn out. This shows that neither side explained the matter properly. One leader in particular hid from the media. It is all a symptom of how the country is at the moment, nobody caring at all, citizen or politician. We're doomed I tell ya.

    Yeah.

    30% voted for the Suicide Pact and 70% didn't.

    The 70% got it right - for whatever reason ;)


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    #1828
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,258 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    The sample population for the polls you have taken is not representative of the wider population.

    Indeed. From the 'Record low turnout for treaty referendum?' thread:
    ninja900 wrote: »
    The proportion of pensioners in my area is high, they've a lot to lose in the event of loss of supply (actually, we all do, but they're acutely aware of it and don't tend to listen to SF/SWP propaganda.)

    So I'd be more optimistic of a Yes. 55 or 60%. I reckon a lot of people talked a good No game but didn't turn up in the end.

    It wuz the pensioners what wun it :pac: and I should've put money on 60%...!

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #1829
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    Yeah.

    30% voted for the Suicide Pact and 70% didn't.

    The 70% got it right - for whatever reason ;)
    As far as I know there wasn't any suicide pact that was voted on yesterday.


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    #1830
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,540 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    humanji wrote: »
    As far as I know there wasn't any suicide pact that was voted on yesterday.

    You voted Yes then?


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    #1831
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Do I have to have voted a particular way to be disgusted by scaremongering?


This discussion has been closed.
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