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Sinn Fein appealing to the lowest common denominator

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Comments

  • #362
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Gummy Panda wrote: »
    I don't think you know the Wolfe tone I'm on about

    Big redheaded lad from Arklow? Good bowler?


  • #363
    Sergeant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,362 ✭✭✭Sergeant


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    I also find it strange that you say you cant think of a single economic reason to vote for them. Perhaps you should look into their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc...

    All absolutely lovely, all-inclusive, fair, and filled with good intentions I'm sure. It's the bit about who, why, where, and when we get the money to pay for these policies that cracks in the logic start to appear.


  • #364
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Class does not come into it.
    Yet the demographics of SF's support base do. That's fine BTW, but they're hardly "a middle class" party.
    I also find it strange that you say you cant think of a single economic reason to vote for them. Perhaps you should look into their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc...
    This is quite typical of SF thinking(and ULA thinking for that matter). Why is it an issue? Simply because without the money to pay for their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc, they may as well write their manifesto in klingon.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #365
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Ruralyoke wrote: »
    What I'm saying is that they will and have made all the right noises, including ill conceived flaky economic proposals.

    When it came to the crunch, when the direction of the knife was decided and the precise cuts that were to be implemented were agreed, SF were strangely silent.

    The fact is they form part of the stormont government and are currently presiding over cuts that they claim to oppose in the south. In NI they were participants in those same cuts.

    I dont know what to say to this. You're either a liar or a moron.
    You have made several accusations and I've provided you with proof debunking them and now you've just gone right back to the start and began making the same groundless accusations again.
    Either back up what you're saying or I wont be engaging with this baseless whinging any more.


  • #366
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,234 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    LordSutch wrote: »
    You do realise that boards.ie is infested with shinners? Expect to be shot down in flames for even suggisting such a thing Smash!

    Surely there are no dole scrougers on Boards reading this.....


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  • #367
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    If Gerry was interested in cash he could have been a millionaire by now just by suing for defamation
    This is pretty funny considering himself and McGuinness have decent property portfolios.


  • #368
    Ruralyoke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 213 ✭✭Ruralyoke


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    You're either a liar or a moron.

    Since you're resorting to this tone, I'm out.

    You have debunked nothing.

    Nothing in my last post is inaccurate however much it may not be to your taste.

    Topic closed for me.


  • #369
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,635 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    SF do have middle class support...

    Although how people can define themselves as middle class when they are up to their ears in debt I don't know.
    It's largely because the term "working class" has been adopted by those who have never done a days work in their lives.

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  • #370
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Yet the demographics of SF's support base do. That's fine BTW, but they're hardly "a middle class" party.

    This is quite typical of SF thinking(and ULA thinking for that matter). Why is it an issue? Simply because without the money to pay for their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc, they may as well write their manifesto in klingon.

    Please point out to me where I said it wasnt an issue. I merely inferred that it wasnt the only issue. Surely you couldnt disagree with that.
    Nor did I say they are a middle class party. I said they lay out their policies and people decide if they like them or not. Class does not come into it. Surely you're not arguing, for example, that somebody cant have a strong opinion on a fair minimum wage just because they are well off and it doesnt affect them directly.


  • #371
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    smash wrote: »
    This is pretty funny considering himself and McGuinness have decent property portfolios.

    So they is in it for the cash then? :rolleyes:


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  • #372
    Show Time
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭Show Time


    Sergeant wrote: »
    With the proud drum of rebellion ringing in our ears, and the spirit of the brave soldiers of 1916 in our hearts. Gushing with nationalistic pride as we tell those pesky Germans to take their money and go.

    We'll then hit the forests of Wicklow and harvest the money trees, and enjoy a socialist paradise where there are no difficult decisions to be made, no fiscal adjustments, and no greedy capitalists coming in here to the Emerald Isle to exploit our workers and take advantage of our corporation tax rate.

    I really cannot wait.

    FF FG and Labour have fcuked the country over again and again so why not give SF a chance??

    and what was all the 1916 crap about what point were you TRYING(badly) to make?


  • #373
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    So they is in it for the cash then? :rolleyes:
    Did I say that, or can you just not read?

    The point made was "If Gerry was interested in cash he could have been a millionaire by now" and I replied to point out that he probably already is.


  • #374
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Ruralyoke wrote: »
    Since you're resorting to this tone, I'm out.

    You have debunked nothing.

    Nothing in my last post is inaccurate however much it may not be to your taste.

    Topic closed for me.

    And yet you refuse to back it up with any kind of proof.
    First you said they approved Tory cuts. I debunked that. Then you said they "didnt make a peep," about cuts. I debunked that. Then you said they made non-specific generalities. I debunked that. Then you gave up on bunking stuff for me to debunk and went back to those groundless accusations.

    Way to save face. Run along now.


  • #375
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,635 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Show Time wrote: »
    FF FG and Labour have fcuked the country over again and again so why not give SF a chance??
    Because they'd destroy the economy so badly that the Republic of Ireland would never recover...

    Hang on a minute! Maybe that's the gameplan: destroy the country so thoroughly that it has to become Ireland 2.0 to survive the aftermath... I'm not quite figuring out how the Republic's meltdown would lead to a United Ireland but I'm sure one of the party's economic geniuses has that bit worked out already! :P

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  • #376
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    smash wrote: »
    Did I say that, or can you just not read?

    The point made was "If Gerry was interested in cash he could have been a millionaire by now" and I replied to point out that he probably already is.
    lol

    No he isnt. Have you seen his "property portfolio"? His house? Hardly the stuff of millionaires.

    Would be comfortable with a long political career and several well selling books.


  • #377
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,635 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    smash wrote: »
    Did I say that, or can you just not read?

    The point made was "If Gerry was interested in cash he could have been a millionaire by now" and I replied to point out that he probably already is.
    He's a TD, former member of The Assembly of Northern Ireland and has published quite a few books, some of which have been on best-seller lists. I think it's safe to say the man is more than "probably" a millionaire...

    TBH, if he isn't after all he's taken in over the past few decades, is that not a good enough reason to keep him away from high office? Look what happened last time we let someone incapable of managing his own finances into the position!

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  • #378
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    lol

    No he isnt. Have you seen his "property portfolio"? His house? Hardly the stuff of millionaires.

    Would be comfortable with a long political career and several well selling books.

    Are you taking the piss now? He could move into a mansion if he wanted to but sure then he'd be seen as upper class and we can't have that.

    Don't kid yourself thinking the guy is in any way poor or has little money. Sure he even sometimes gets money for doing nothing:

    "GERRY ADAMS (Sinn Fein President)
    Claims expenses on second home in London despite not taking up Commons seat. Spokesman says Sinn Fein MPs need to be in capital for parliamentary business."
    http://www.derbygripe.co.uk/names.htm


  • #379
    Nothingbetter2d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,037 ✭✭✭Nothingbetter2d


    smash wrote: »

    Don't kid yourself thinking the guy is in any way poor or has little money. Sure he even sometimes gets money for doing nothing:

    he does televised extreme dogging to fund his property empire ;)


  • #380
    Crooked Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,679 ✭✭✭Crooked Jack


    Sleepy wrote: »
    He's a TD, former member of The Assembly of Northern Ireland and has published quite a few books, some of which have been on best-seller lists. I think it's safe to say the man is more than "probably" a millionaire...

    TBH, if he isn't after all he's taken in over the past few decades, is that not a good enough reason to keep him away from high office? Look what happened last time we let someone incapable of managing his own finances into the position!

    All Sinn Fein members, from the party leader to the guy who drives his car, earn the average industrial wage. Dunno what his income from the books would be but I doubt it runs into the millions


  • #381
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Sleepy wrote: »
    He's a TD, former member of The Assembly of Northern Ireland and has published quite a few books, some of which have been on best-seller lists. I think it's safe to say the man is more than "probably" a millionaire...
    smash wrote: »
    .....He could move into a mansion if he wanted to but sure then he'd be seen as upper class and we can't have that.

    You seem to have no actual clue about his personal finances. How much revenue he has generated over the years, or, how he disposes/donates any or all of it. Pure speculation.

    My guess is if he opened his bank accounts and had 15k total you'd say anyone with that little money is not fit to govern.

    If he had much more than that you'd come up with some other invented nonsensical & disingenous criticism.

    It's clear that you and the rest of the 'anti-SF' crowd are clutching at straws as you have been for most of this thread.

    Sometimes amusingly but more often it's just revealing in terms of the elitist & condescending tone of much of the criticism (which btw tends to be directed not so much at the party but often against caricatures of their supporters).


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  • #382
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Morlar wrote: »
    It's clear that you and the rest of the 'anti-SF' crowd are clutching at straws as you have been for most of this thread.
    Clutching at straws about what? The thread was started to discuss how they target people of a certain demographic and so far the SF supporters have not been able to prove otherwise and instead are the ones bringing it off topic in a very SF manner.
    Morlar wrote: »
    My guess is if he opened his bank accounts and had 15k total you'd say anyone with that little money is not fit to govern.
    Forget the money, I think he's not fit to govern because I feel he doesn't have a grasp of how to actually run a country.
    Morlar wrote: »
    Sometimes amusingly but more often it's just revealing in terms of the elitist & condescending tone of much of the criticism (which btw tends to be directed not so much at the party but often against caricatures of their supporters).
    You're suggesting that people who don't support SF are all Elitist?


  • #383
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    So nearly 400 posts in still no detail on their economic plans, just slogans and populist rhetoric.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #384
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    smash wrote: »
    .......

    You're suggesting that people who don't support SF are all Elitist?

    No, I'd say he's making the point that a number who oppose them - and certainly a few on this thread - are.


  • #385
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    smash wrote: »
    Clutching at straws about what? The thread was started to discuss how they target people of a certain demographic and so far the SF supporters have not been able to prove otherwise and instead are the ones bringing it off topic in a very SF manner.

    You and I have a significantly different assessment of this thread.
    smash wrote: »
    You're suggesting that people who don't support SF are all Elitist?

    That's clearly not what I said.

    What I said was related to the content of much of the 'anti-SF' posts on this thread.

    That is clearly not the same thing as 'ALL People who don't support SF'.

    Did you really make the mistake of thinking those two things are exactly and always the same ? Or are you simply disingenous ?


  • #386
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Fenian Army wrote: »
    SF do have middle class support...

    Although how people can define themselves as middle class when they are up to their ears in debt I don't know.
    What middle class seat have Sinn Fein won? None as far as I am aware.

    Social class is about far more than just financial wealth as you well know. Furthermore the term working class has been hijacked by the 'underclass' in Ireland to a large extent.
    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    Nobody responded because your assertion is ridiculous.
    Sinn Fein are a political party, they outline their policies and aims quite clearly on their website, which has been linked to in this thread a number of times already.
    If you agree with these policies you vote for them, if you dont, then you dont.
    Class does not come into it.

    I also find it strange that you say you cant think of a single economic reason to vote for them. Perhaps you should look into their policies on education, health care, social inclusion, equality etc...
    Like any other party I would urge you to make a decision on them as a whole, not just on the flavour of the month (or flavour of the last four years as the case may be.)

    Where does the money to fund education, health care, social inclusion etc. come from? Oh yes, money. Sinn Fein still haven't explained where the money to fund all this is going to come from apart from sound bites about taxing the 'rich' (anyone above minimum wage level in Sinn Fein speak). Hence it's economics.


  • #387
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,808 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Nodin wrote: »
    No, I'd say he's making the point that a number who oppose them - and certainly a few on this thread - are.

    No, he's making an assumption. And only on the basis that some people are anti-SF.


  • #388
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    smash wrote: »
    No, he's making an assumption. And only on the basis that some people are anti-SF.

    You are clearly wrong.


  • #389
    swimming in a sea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 937 ✭✭✭swimming in a sea


    Crooked Jack wrote: »
    ZZZZZZzzzzzzz.... typical reaction of the anti SF crowd, people who will always be anti-Sinn Fein no matter what they say or do.
    Ask a question, Sinn Fein answers it, they dont get the response they wanted so they resort to this tiresome kneecap/bombing/shooting schtick.
    How much longer do you think that stuff is going to work for. There is a new generation of voters coming through who are judging parties on their policies and their actions, not the prejudices they were brought up with.
    Better change your tune.

    They've never answered it, they never answer anything when it comes to economy, if you are an SF supporter maybe you can answer it.

    Where would NI get the money to pay for itself without the Westminster handout?????


  • #390
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    smash wrote: »
    No, he's making an assumption. And only on the basis that some people are anti-SF.

    Not really, as its a conclusion I came to a number of pages ago, based on posts alone.


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  • #391
    Fenian Army
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭Fenian Army


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    What middle class seat have Sinn Fein won? None as far as I am aware.

    Social class is about far more than just financial wealth as you well know. Furthermore the term working class has been hijacked by the 'underclass' in Ireland to a large extent.



    Where does the money to fund education, health care, social inclusion etc. come from? Oh yes, money. Sinn Fein still haven't explained where the money to fund all this is going to come from apart from sound bites about taxing the 'rich' (anyone above minimum wage level in Sinn Fein speak). Hence it's economics.

    "underclass" says it all :rolleyes:

    Must have imagined the SDLP getting hammered in elections so.


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