Sinn Fein appealing to the lowest common denominator

smash · 25-05-2012 11:07AM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

And what have FF/FG being doing? Yes that's right, submitting. Our version of change involves the replacement of FF with FG. Yet there is absolutely no difference between either. I don't particularly give a shít about Sinn Fein to be honest. But a pack of dogs would do a better job running the country, than the meek shower of balless fúckwits currently in post.

What has anything you just said, got to do with the people that SF target with their campaigning?

Morlar · 25-05-2012 11:08AM

LordSutch wrote: »

Dear Lord, can you imagine Gerry Adams or Mary Lou as Taoiseach/Tánaiste

Now there's two scary thoughts 4 starters, it just aint goin to happen, and it wont happen - The prospect is just too scary.

I can see how it could be the mother of all nightmares for the less progressive loyalists alright.

Sleepy · 25-05-2012 11:09AM

fishy fishy wrote: »

listen lads the fact is the SF is on the rise. They are the second biggest party in Ireland now. People have finally copped on and can see what is being done to the country to ensure that the FF/FG have their pockets lined.

I know some of you can't handle it - but tough. Get used to is. Ye' don't seem to bothered about the other party's throwing away everything and making us pay up. maybe ye were part of the gravy train, maybe not.

The 31st Dail has 14 Sinn Fein TD's. This makes them the 4th largest party with less than 20% the numbers of the largest (Fine Gael), under half the numbers of the second largest (Labour) and at roughly 75% of the third largest (Fianna Fail who happened to be the party most responsible for the economic climate Ireland is currently in).

You can quote whatever polls you like and it won't change the *FACT* that Sinn Fein are a minority party in Dail Eireann. While they may continue to gain traction amongst the uneducated welfare class, that class represents less than 10/15% of our population and I can't see the middle classes ever voting for someone who's policies would result in even those of us earning modest salaries being taxed into oblivion.

Its time now for the Shinners to shine - hey, maybe it won't be too bad. Maybe Nelson Mandela will come over to visit Gerry and ye can all climb over each other to shake his hand. :D

Think I might take a weekend trip to Killarney.

Enjoy your buzz words in the meantime and remember if it gets too much ye can "talk to joe".

How exactly are the Shinners going to shine?

Morlar · 25-05-2012 11:14AM

Sleepy wrote: »

The 31st Dail has 14 Sinn Fein TD's. This makes them the 4th largest party with less than 20% the numbers of the largest (Fine Gael), under half the numbers of the second largest (Labour) and at roughly 75% of the third largest (Fianna Fail who happened to be the party most responsible for the economic climate Ireland is currently in).

You can quote whatever polls you like and it won't change the *FACT* that Sinn Fein are a minority party in Dail Eireann. While they may continue to gain traction amongst the uneducated welfare class, that class represents less than 10/15% of our population and I can't see the middle classes ever voting for someone who's policies would result in even those of us earning modest salaries being taxed into oblivion.

How exactly are the Shinners going to shine?

All recent polls I have seen have SF the 2nd biggest party in the state.

You (along with the rest of the anti-SF crowd) can try to avoid acknowledging that but polls are the standard, universally accepted way to gauge the political landscape (in between general elections), & all the most recent ones I have seen show SF as the 2nd biggest party in the state.

forfuxsake · 25-05-2012 11:17AM

Sleepy wrote: »

The 31st Dail has 14 Sinn Fein TD's. This makes them the 4th largest party with less than 20% the numbers of the largest (Fine Gael), under half the numbers of the second largest (Labour) and at roughly 75% of the third largest (Fianna Fail who happened to be the party most responsible for the economic climate Ireland is currently in).

You can quote whatever polls you like and it won't change the *FACT* that Sinn Fein are a minority party in Dail Eireann. While they may continue to gain traction amongst the uneducated welfare class, that class represents less than 10/15% of our population and I can't see the middle classes ever voting for someone who's policies would result in even those of us earning modest salaries being taxed into oblivion.

How exactly are the Shinners going to shine?

Who are you to call anyone else uneducated?

And as for your comments, that's what the SDLP thought in the North. Until Sinn Fein took their middle class vote from them.

LordSutch · 25-05-2012 11:18AM

Morlar wrote: »

I can see how it could be the mother of all nightmares for the less progressive loyalists alright.

Forget Loyalists and Northern Ireland for a moment, I am talking about the man in the street down here! Fine Gael supporters, Fianna Fail supporters, Labour supprters, these would be the people to suffer the nightmare if Adams or Mary Lou became Taoiseach or Tánaiste.

Ruralyoke · 25-05-2012 11:27AM

Morlar wrote: »

All recent polls I have seen have SF the 2nd biggest party in the state.

I can guarantee you they have peaked.

This is as popular as they will ever be and they can only wane. It was a popularity based on disillusion with other parties, easily influenced and naive floating voters and motivated staunch republicans.

The republicans will always be there to some extent and the other two will cop themselves on, given time.

The SF election machine is very well organised and hard working - I'll give them that but the job is done. Maxed out.

Morlar · 25-05-2012 11:29AM

LordSutch wrote: »

Forget Loyalists and Northern Ireland for a moment, I am talking about the man in the street down here! Fine Gael supporters, Fianna Fail supporters, Labour supprters, these would be the people to suffer the nightmare if Adams or Mary Lou became Taoiseach or Tánaiste.

I am not sure Gerry Adams would be taoiseach in a coalition govt but if he were I doubt he could do worse than Brian Cowen or Enda Kenny (who have both been 'nightmare' enough for me).

Morlar · 25-05-2012 11:30AM

Ruralyoke wrote: »

I can guarantee you they have peaked.

No offence, but remind me again why I should take the word of an internet randomer on that ?

Ruralyoke · 25-05-2012 11:32AM

Morlar wrote: »

No offence, but remind me again why I should take the word of an internet randomer on that ?

So do you disagree then?

smash · 25-05-2012 11:33AM

Morlar wrote: »

All recent polls I have seen have SF the 2nd biggest party in the state.

you're confusing speculative popularity with the size of their party. They don't have enough TD's to run a government on their own and most other parties would not go into coalition with them.

Morlar · 25-05-2012 11:35AM

Ruralyoke wrote: »

So do you disagree then?

You've yet to establish why anyone should agree with your assessment. This reminds me of a Gary Larson cartoon where the old man on the porch says 'my elbow feels a funny - bad storms a comin'. In other words you are putting forward your gut feelings with nothing to support it.

Morlar · 25-05-2012 11:37AM

smash wrote: »

you're confusing speculative popularity with the size of their party. They don't have enough TD's to run a government on their own and most other parties would not go into coalition with them.

No I am not, you are attempting to undermine and dismiss their support on the supposed basis that it's 'speculative'. As to who will and who won't go into coalition with them, it's not uncommon for parties to say they will not go into a coalition with party x - then after the election do just that. It's in their interests to try to maximise their own support, that doesn't mean they wont actually go into a coalition.

Ruralyoke · 25-05-2012 11:37AM

Morlar, the praragraph following the section you have quoted is fairly unambiguous.

If you are focusing on the word "guarantee" it's merely a turn of phrase. Obviously.

Replace with "I believe" if you like.

smash · 25-05-2012 11:39AM

Morlar wrote: »

No I am not, you are attempting to undermine and dismiss their support on the supposed basis that it's 'speculative'.

All opinion polls are speculative.

Morlar · 25-05-2012 11:40AM

smash wrote: »

All opinion polls are speculative.

I think the term clutching at straws springs to mind.

I think the lowest common denominator in relation to this thread is the bizarre & convoluted lengths some on the 'Anti-SF' or 'anybody but SF' side of this discussion are prepared to go to. It's really quite transparent imo.

Show Time · 25-05-2012 11:41AM

I have no problem with Sinn Fein and would like to see the party in power to see how they would stand up to the fourth Reich of Europe.

smash · 25-05-2012 11:46AM

Morlar wrote: »

I think the term clutching at straws springs to mind.

I think the lowest common denominator in relation to this thread is the bizarre & convoluted lengths some on the 'Anti-SF' or 'anybody but SF' side of this discussion are prepared to go to. It's really quite transparent imo.

Are you serious? Any comment from SF supporters has been clutching at straws and throwing out general comments about how it's their day to shine and other such BS without ANY form of economic plan to help the country in any shape or form.

Climber · 25-05-2012 11:47AM

They appeal to the lowest common denominator, the "ordinary" man, the common man.

It sounds like they appeal to Irish people :rolleyes:

PogMoThoin · 25-05-2012 11:48AM

smash wrote: »

Are you serious? Any comment from SF supporters has been clutching at straws and throwing out general comments about how it's their day to shine and other such BS without ANY form of economic plan to help the country in any shape or form.

Enda Kenny has a plan? I'd love to hear it. To me it looks like more of the same

AEDIC · 25-05-2012 11:49AM

Climber wrote: »

They appeal to the lowest common denominator, the "ordinary" man, the common man.

It sounds like they appeal to Irish people :rolleyes:

Correction - it sounds like they appeal to 17 - 20% of the Irish people depending on which 'Opinion' Poll you subscribe to.

smash · 25-05-2012 11:50AM

PogMoThoin wrote: »

Enda Kenny has a plan? I'd love to hear it. To me it looks like more of the same

I'd love to hear it too. But as mentioned previously we a re tied into a bailout programme and that will not change even if the shinners get in.

Crooked Jack · 25-05-2012 11:51AM

Spudmonkey wrote: »

Whatever about the economic literacy of the incumbent government the thought of Sinn Fein running the show scares me.

Preaching one thing in the South while doing the opposite in the North.

This is one of those myths constantly trotted out by parties in the south and the SDLP.
Sinn Fein's policies are the same all over Ireland. They are not overseeing cuts in the north, Stormont is (sadly) a totally different set up to the Dail, they have little to no control over fiscal matters. Fiscal responsibility is however something Sinn Fein campaign for vigorously in the north, precisely so they can introduce the type of economic policies they espouse north and south.
Claiming Sinn Fein "preach one thing in the south and do the opposite in the north," is either willfully disingenuous or displays an incredible level of ignorance about the party and the institutions on this island.

Sergeant · 25-05-2012 11:55AM

Show Time wrote: »

I have no problem with Sinn Fein and would like to see the party in power to see how they would stand up to the fourth Reich of Europe.

With the proud drum of rebellion ringing in our ears, and the spirit of the brave soldiers of 1916 in our hearts. Gushing with nationalistic pride as we tell those pesky Germans to take their money and go.

We'll then hit the forests of Wicklow and harvest the money trees, and enjoy a socialist paradise where there are no difficult decisions to be made, no fiscal adjustments, and no greedy capitalists coming in here to the Emerald Isle to exploit our workers and take advantage of our corporation tax rate.

I really cannot wait.

Happy Monday · 25-05-2012 11:55AM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

This is one of those myths constantly trotted out by parties in the south and the SDLP.
Sinn Fein's policies are the same all over Ireland. They are not overseeing cuts in the north, Stormont is (sadly) a totally different set up to the Dail, they have little to no control over fiscal matters. Fiscal responsibility is however something Sinn Fein campaign for vigorously in the north, precisely so they can introduce the type of economic policies they espouse north and south.
Claiming Sinn Fein "preach one thing in the south and do the opposite in the north," is either willfully disingenuous or displays an incredible level of ignorance about the party and the institutions on this island.

They don't control spending in the North.
The British government does.
The Irish government has tax raising and spending powers.

Crooked Jack · 25-05-2012 11:59AM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Not quite the same as bombing people in the North (and South) for decades.

wait. So killing people in 1920 is somehow different from or better than killing people in 1970? How? What a load of nonsense. Unless you vote Greens practically every party on this island has its origins in violence.

paddyandy · 25-05-2012 12:00PM

There is a very noticeable absence of debate and dissent among the Shinners .All behind closed doors .The Hymn Sheet must have clear Voices and in accord .Suspicious .

Ruralyoke · 25-05-2012 12:00PM

Crooked Jack wrote: »

...Sinn Fein's policies are the same all over Ireland. They are not overseeing cuts in the north...

So, just to be absolutely clear, are you claiming that SF in Northern Ireland did not approve of cuts (which include education) to the tune of £4 billion?

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/sam-smyth-sfs-policy-is-hypocrisy-on-both-sides-of-border-3107921.html

http://www.johnomahony.ie/?p=1799

http://www.finegael.ie/latest-news/2012/sinn-fein-is-closing-scho/index.xml

Sleepy · 25-05-2012 12:04PM

Morlar wrote: »

All recent polls I have seen have SF the 2nd biggest party in the state.

You (along with the rest of the anti-SF crowd) can try to avoid acknowledging that but polls are the standard, universally accepted way to gauge the political landscape (in between general elections), & all the most recent ones I have seen show SF as the 2nd biggest party in the state.

A poll is a poll, an election is what matters. Look at the demographic of the average person who'll answer Sinn Fein to a pollster and you'll find many of them won't even be registered to vote. Seats are what matter, though if Sinn Fein want to think otherwise, that's no bad thing for their opponents.

forfuxsake wrote: »

Who are you to call anyone else uneducated?

Someone with a B.Comm and a post-grad diploma. I spent a total of 4 years studying economics at Leaving Cert and Undergraduate level. A typo on an internet forum doesn't undermine that.

Obviously, there are those out there that are far more qualified than me in the area of economics but I don't see many of them representing or supporting Sinn Fein. The ad in the OP clearly demonstrates the sort of support the party are targeting: the disaffected, uneducated portion of society who would give someone a vote (or at least say the will to a pollster

) because Sinn Fein are being vocal about supporting the national soccer team (as if the other parties want to see them crash out in the first round :rolleyes:).

And as for your comments, that's what the SDLP thought in the North. Until Sinn Fein took their middle class vote from them.

Different country, different political environment and, based on what we've seen of their differing policies in the two countries, different Sinn Fein tbh.

Climber · 25-05-2012 12:05PM

The North spends more than it raises in taxes.

Instead of borrowing to fund the difference, the tax payers of Britain fund the difference.

This is a well known fact and when it is put to any Shinner they tend to be a little sheepish in their responses.

Sinn Fein appealing to the lowest common denominator

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