Sinn Fein appealing to the lowest common denominator

K-9

Wibbs wrote: »

Their economic policies are beyond daft. Ideas from the nuttier end of socialist thinking and as is typical of that kinda thinking they're great at spending money without a bulls notion how to make money in the first place*. Low taxes for "the working man"(so long as he is well under what they consider moral) high social spending, but who's gonna write the cheques for all this? Ehhhh Tax the RICH!!!! Burn the bondholders!!! Tell the IMF to fcuk off!! Bastards!!!.




*Nuttier rightwingers/libertarians are the opposite, great at raising money, crap at spending it or at least hate to do so. Hence I prefer the middle ground.

Yep and SF are now campaigning that voting No means we can get a second round of funding from the IMF, which is debatable. So the shower who didn't want the IMF in the first place are now saying we can avail of funding from the IMF, the crowd we shouldn't be getting funding from!

Plus they keep repeating the treaty will mean an additional €6 Billion worth of cuts, the same economist they quoted in their leaflets when being "economical with the truth" says different.

MagicSean

Hootanany wrote: »

MagicSean wrote: »

Got their Vote No leaflet in the post. There's a lot of stuff in it that I would consider deceptive at best. It really is targeted at people who are ignorant of the issue.

Expand please

On the page about austerity it says things are getting worse even after 24.6 billion in cuts and a host of new charges including "household charge, septic tank charge, property tax, water charges". As far as I am aware there is no property tax or water charges in existence.

It also says that fine Gael and labour gave €21 billion to the banks. Surely this would be classed as an investment/purchase rather than a gift as the government received a stake in the bank in exchange for the money.

On the second page it asks "Does it deal with the debt crisis?" to which it gives the answer "no. it completely ignores it". But if you look over to the side it asks what will voting no mean to which it answers " the irish government can deal with the debt crisis". A bit contradictory.

On the back page it says that the rules can "only be changed by a future referendum with the agreement of the other EU states." This is not entirely true. The Irish people retain the right to alter the constitution at any time without the need to obtain agreement from any other country.

K-9

Wibbs wrote: »

This is another issue I have with SF. Their gung ho supporters tend to be remarkably ignorant of what they're actually supporting, on more than one level.

I don't know of any other party that its "grass roots" supporters are more at odds with the party's policies on immigration and homosexuality to give 2 examples. I've even seen the view on Boards, wait till we get into power to see what we really think!

K-9

smash wrote: »

There's not one qualified accountant in the dept of finance. That's to do with how the PS is run and it's shocking, and worse is that unions wouldn't allow these people be made redundant!

I'd say there is plenty of qualified Accountants, there are no Economists though, not necessarily a bad thing! The DoF advised not guaranteeing Anglo whereas McWilliams wanted the blanket guarantee.

HavingCrack

Do Sinn Fein have any middle class support at all ? I'm genuinely curious about this because the 'working classes' only make up a relatively small percentage of the population and most of Sinn Fein's policies only appeal to them (I actually debate about how much of a working class we really have in Ireland but that's another argument). Unless they broaden their appeal they won't grow much more in political strength.

Chucky the tree

K-9 wrote: »

I'd say there is plenty of qualified Accountants, there are no Economists though, not necessarily a bad thing! The DoF advised not guaranteeing Anglo whereas McWilliams wanted the blanket guarantee.

Accountants who can't even do accounting.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/1101/breaking31.html

Wibbs

K-9 wrote: »

I don't know of any other party that its "grass roots" supporters are more at odds with the party's policies on immigration and homosexuality to give 2 examples. I've even seen the view on Boards, wait till we get into power to see what we really think!

Its actually quite scary on that score K.

MagicMarker

Wibbs wrote: »

Sooooo you agree I was right and you were wrong for saying you never heard or read this? As for what's wrong with it? Where do you think the money to cover our losses and ongoing expenses will come from? Answers on a postcard please.

Which taxes anyone above 100k per year at 48%.
Gerry Adams has said this, or do you not believe your own glorious leader?

Not enough for you? OK then here it is from their own website.

For those on mobile folks... "Sinn Féin TD Aengus Ó Snodaigh has said the Government should throw the IMF out of the country before resigning and calling a general election."

Obviously they don't actually say "fcuk off", but that's just you nitpicking and backtracking in the face of your ignorance of the position of the party you support.

Naw. I would respectfully suggest that you break out the camomile lotion, because you've been burned. Then try again.

Again actually try reading the policies. You're 47% wrong. That's just on income tax above 100k. Never mind the capital gains tax among a host of others.



This is another issue I have with SF. Their gung ho supporters tend to be remarkably ignorant of what they're actually supporting, on more than one level.

Wibbs, have I ever told you that I love you?

forfuxsake

K-9 wrote: »

I don't know of any other party that its "grass roots" supporters are more at odds with the party's policies on immigration and homosexuality to give 2 examples. I've even seen the view on Boards, wait till we get into power to see what we really think!

Wibbs wrote: »

Its actually quite scary on that score K.

In the north too there would be many people amongst their supporters who probably wouldn't be too fond of their policies on gay rights or immigration.

As Sinn Fein's political power has grown they have just had to suck it up.

fishy fishy

smash wrote: »

Consistently they seem to target their propaganda at the weak and/or uneducated. I remember during the Lisbon treaty they had a billboard in Tallaght stating "remember 1916", which had sweet fck all to do with anything.

Today I saw the following sign and it really annoyed me because it seems that a lot of educated people seem to be swinging in the Sinn Fein direction using the excuse of 'there's nobody better'. But ffs, talk about bullshít campaigning!

I really hope these tools never get into power.

your post is quite naive to say the least.

smash

fishy fishy wrote: »

your post is quite naive to say the least.

if that's your opinion then I don't think you understand the meaning of naive.

fishy fishy

Hootanany wrote: »

Their area was occupied would you just roll over if some people took over your area.

ya, seems like Ireland rolls over for any tom dick or merkel. you have FG Labour spouting before they got in that they would not put one more penny into the bank bailing - you have the FF/PD a*se licking zarkozeeeeeeeeeee and merkel. And what do ya know, there goes FG and Labour going down the same route.

Maybe they WANT Ireland to be occupied - they're going about it the right way anyway.

Won't be long now until people start demanding the SF get our country back for us. :D

fishy fishy

summerskin wrote: »

My father in law was both. Never felt the need to murder children and pensioners though. Funny that.

who did he support?

fishy fishy

summerskin wrote: »

Growing up in an Irish catholic family in England I grew up wanting a united Ireland, which got me into much trouble at school etc.

As I've got older I realise that what Ireland needs is not to be united, as most of the nordies want to stay British for whatever reason, and with the prejudices i have encountered from many of them I'd rather they were neither British nor Irish.

What Ireland needs is a separate county or three, or even a country, for all the shinners and all those republicans in the north who want a republic so dearly that they can't be arsed moving 30 miles down the road as it means they'd lose the NHS and their other benefits.

Then the rest of the country could get on with life without all the bull**** sprouted by students etc who have "bobby sands" in their usernames but weren't even born in the 80s and now see themselves as "activists" and then prance around in man united shirts.

Still, at least the IRA bomb in Manchester resulted in us getting a decent city centre at last....

and there's the post the explains that you have not got an idea of what you are talking about - knew it would come sometime.

fishy fishy

smash wrote: »

if that's your opinion then I don't think you understand the meaning of naive.

oh, I do smash, I certainly do.

Mallei

I'll vote for Sinn Fein. They seem to be the only party that aren't a bunch of vicious "yes men" for the cronies in the banks, intent on keeping the status quo and screwing the ordinary man. There's a reason the other parties are so vehemently against them - they're terrified that they'll upset the balance and actually do something that's right for Ireland (and not just for the rich) for once.

And there seems to be a huge blurring of the lines in this thread between Sinn Fein (a POLITICAL PARTY) and the IRA (a TERRORIST ORGANISATION). They are separate. There were a lot of IRA sympathisers within Sinn Fein in the North, it's true, but there were a lot of IRA sympathisers throughout Ireland. You can be horrified by some of the actions of the IRA without letting that influence your opinion of the entirely separate entity that is Sinn Fein.

And I just want to make a point on another theme running through this thread (even though it's off-topic): to all those lambasting Sinn Fein and the IRA for their actions, how about you try living in a country where the occupying forces collude with their loyalist brethren to torture, burn, murder and abuse the nationalist populations? The English are an oppressive and occupying force as brutal and subversive in their methods for controlling the North as any conqueror has been before. They just seem to have really good PR, apparently.

Chucky the tree

Mallei wrote: »

I'll vote for Sinn Fein. They seem to be the only party that aren't a bunch of vicious "yes men" for the cronies in the banks, intent on keeping the status quo and screwing the ordinary man. There's a reason the other parties are so vehemently against them - they're terrified that they'll upset the balance and actually do something that's right for Ireland (and not just for the rich) for once.

And there seems to be a huge blurring of the lines in this thread between Sinn Fein (a POLITICAL PARTY) and the IRA (a TERRORIST ORGANISATION). They are separate. There were a lot of IRA sympathisers within Sinn Fein in the North, it's true, but there were a lot of IRA sympathisers throughout Ireland. You can be horrified by some of the actions of the IRA without letting that influence your opinion of the entirely separate entity that is Sinn Fein.

And I just want to make a point on another theme running through this thread (even though it's off-topic): to all those lambasting Sinn Fein and the IRA for their actions, how about you try living in a country where the occupying forces collude with their loyalist brethren to torture, burn, murder and abuse the nationalist populations? The English are an oppressive and occupying force as brutal and subversive in their methods for controlling the North as any conqueror has been before. They just seem to have really good PR, apparently.

lol, Martin McGuinnes was a bit more than a sympathiser.

Mallei

Chucky the tree wrote: »

lol, Martin McGuinnes was a bit more than a sympathiser.

And the fact that Martin McGuinness fought for the freedom of his homeland is supposed to somehow make me respect him less?

Bizzare.

Ruralyoke

Lowest common denominator? Of course. Cynical liars is closer.

"SF for jobs" what jobs? where? how?

"No to education cuts" almost laughable as SF in NI approves cuts of 4 billion :rolleyes:

"SF will save the Louth hospital" one of the worst, & Adams ticket to a poll topping result.

Just exactly how in the fúck is SF or Adams going to do ANYTHING about the Louth hospital in Dundalk? Oh that's right, they can't, they were lying.

Bunch of chancers and their supporters are worse.

MagicSean

Mallei wrote: »

Chucky the tree wrote: »

lol, Martin McGuinnes was a bit more than a sympathiser.

And the fact that Martin McGuinness fought for the freedom of his homeland is supposed to somehow make me respect him less?

Bizzare.

Your main point was that they were separate. Now you seem to accept they aren't. So you were just lying in your first post?

Chucky the tree

Mallei wrote: »

And the fact that Martin McGuinness fought for the freedom of his homeland is supposed to somehow make me respect him less?

Bizzare.

What's bizarre is you claiming that all Sinn Fein and the IRA have in common is a few IRA "sympathisers". Martin McGuinnes was a member of the IRA, he was not just a sympathiser. Sinn Fein was the political wing of the IRA.

humanji

Mallei wrote: »

And the fact that Martin McGuinness fought for the freedom of his homeland is supposed to somehow make me respect him less?

Bizzare.

No, it's the being involved in murder that should make you think that maybe, just maybe, he'll do wahtever he can for what HE wants and not what YOU want. You can pretend they're all honourable men, but that's like pretending Bertie won that money on the horses.

You should also realise that FG were all against FF, when they were in opposition. And once in power, their true colours shone through. I can't imagine SF would be any different. And the sad thing is, if they actually stuck to their manifesto, we'd be screwed by their insane, shortsighted plans. We simple lose out whether they're honest or crooks.

smash

fishy fishy wrote: »

oh, I do smash, I certainly do.

Then elaborate. Come on, enlighten me!

fishy fishy

i believe the second largest party in Ireland ( Sinn Fein ) are holding their Ard Fheis this weekend. No wonder the sun is shining so brightly.

I'm sure "talk to joe", "envelope sean" and their sheeple will be having little hissy fits at the thought of it.

:D

fishy fishy

smash wrote: »

Then elaborate. Come on, enlighten me!

re-read your post after reading the facts. That should enlighten you enough. If you are asking me to educate you on the facts, then get off your lazy a*rse and do it yourself. It's this lazy attitude that got you to this naive post in the first place.

Sleepy

I take it as a damning indictment of the public education system that people will vote for a party who's understanding of economics is about as sophisticated as my three year old's attitude to sweets...

This isn't Big Brother, it's not about who you like most (or in the case of Ms Ferris want to shag), it's about the running of an economy. That's the first and foremost responsibility of a government and Sinn Fein aren't just poor on the economy, they repeatedly demonstrate that they have even less understanding of it than the teachers and publicans in the other parties (which is saying something!).

seanmc1980

Scum Fein will never get in power because
1) they will never get a majority
2) nobody will form a coalition with them

I find most of their policies are "pie in the sky" populas sound bites aimed to stir up emotion in the less informed people of society

statements like " burn the bond holder" then what? no access to the markets?
"Kick the IMF out" and how do we bridge the gap of 15bl
"create job" how???
"Tax wealth"
"No jobs cuts in puplic sector"

No real steady solution just ifs and buts to make all the above succeed.

Sully

Biggins wrote: »

Bullshít campaigning v's scare-tactics = who wins?

We don't!

Sinn Fein do both very well.

fishy fishy

seanmc1980 wrote: »

Scum Fein will never get in power because
1) they will never get a majority
2) nobody will form a coalition with them

I find most of their policies are "pie in the sky" populas sound bites aimed to stir up emotion in the less informed people of society

statements like " burn the bond holder" then what? no access to the markets?
"Kick the IMF out" and how do we bridge the gap of 15bl
"create job" how???
"Tax wealth"
"No jobs cuts in puplic sector"

No real steady solution just ifs and buts to make all the above succeed.

as opposed to Germanys solution for Ireland - ensuring that we are in deep sh*t for the decades to come is a solution.

Do you honestly think that ends kenny knows anything of what is going on - he gives out soundbites that somebody told him to say. He's not an expert - he is being told what to say by the experts whose main concern is germany. ends kenna will say whatever he is told to say - he will do so until he gets his pension and lives happily ever after.

and you believe his crap - this is how we got into this mess in the first place, with is sidekick FF.

Will Ireland ever learn I wonder.

Wibbs

I'll pass on the IRA/terrorist stuf because it just goes around in circles, however I'll look at this:

Mallei wrote: »

I'll vote for Sinn Fein. They seem to be the only party that aren't a bunch of vicious "yes men" for the cronies in the banks, intent on keeping the status quo and screwing the ordinary man. There's a reason the other parties are so vehemently against them - they're terrified that they'll upset the balance and actually do something that's right for Ireland (and not just for the rich) for once.

Nothing in that paragraph makes any concrete argument. It's simplistic and emotive rhetoric. I begin to see why the topic's ad appeals to some. Plus while all that's fine and dandy, how does SF say they'll go about all this? They're all about the soundbite and feck all to do with actual real world solutions. The "rich" is but one example. Their definition of "ordinary man" another. The latter is more often non working man, or subsistence working man. Anything approaching the actual average suburban ordinary man or woman paying the vast bulk of the taxes in this country is just as much in their definition of "rich". They essentially want to tax the "middle class" in this country. Makes sense they're the easy ones to go after.

The English are an oppressive and occupying force as brutal and subversive in their methods for controlling the North as any conqueror has been before.

You can't honestly believe that surely? So you'd reckon Ghengis Khan, Pol pot, Stalin, Hitler to name but a tiny few would be less brutal as conquerors than the Brits in this century? Because that is what you're claiming.