Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

irishbucsfan · 01-05-2012 10:07AM

totallegend wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think you're looking for a fault in the ticket. I don't think they'd be given the job if they weren't prepared to work in the structure.

I am not. I've explained why I don't think it would be a great idea. You seem to be dismissing it as Munster-bashing, it's not.

And let's be very clear on this, this is not "the ticket", this is a top-of-the-head suggestion from a blogger, he doesn't claim to have the inside track and this 'story' hasn't even merited being published in the paper.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's the best possible of combination of the candidates skills.

I am not criticising their skills (I am not criticising them in any way). You could combine Clive Woodward, Warren Gatland and Joe Schmidt on a coaching ticket and you'd have an awesome array of skills, but I'd hate to see how it would work on a rugby pitch.

I don't think its Munster bashing on your part at all. I just think you're focusing on the potential negatives of this combination when in my opinion its almost negligible in comparison to the possible positives.

Your example doesn't really apply here either. You've picked 3 very established head coaches. There is only one established head coach in the rumoured group. Penney. Foley is a forwards coach and Umaga is a backs coach who hasnt ever been a dedicated head coach either. Only a dedicated backs coach.

Penney is a top head coach who has been deserving of a shot at a big club for a while. Both Foley and Umaga are inexperienced guys. Your example is nothing like this situation.

Amazotheamazing · 01-05-2012 10:19AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't think its Munster bashing on your part at all. I just think you're focusing on the potential negatives of this combination when in my opinion its almost negligible in comparison to the possible positives.

Your example doesn't really apply here either. You've picked 3 very established head coaches. There is only one established head coach in the rumoured group. Penney. Foley is a forwards coach and Umaga is a backs coach who hasnt ever been a dedicated head coach either. Only a dedicated backs coach.

Penney is a top head coach who has been deserving of a shot at a big club for a while. Both Foley and Umaga are inexperienced guys. Your example is nothing like this situation.

Lets not build him up too much, he has a great NPC record but he'd have great players to work with at that level. Moving up to HEC level in the NH is a different kettle of fish, should he get the gig.

totallegend · 01-05-2012 10:36AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Your example doesn't really apply here either. You've picked 3 very established head coaches. There is only one established head coach in the rumoured group. Penney. Foley is a forwards coach and Umaga is a backs coach who hasnt ever been a dedicated head coach either. Only a dedicated backs coach.

Ah yeah, it was a fairly ridiculous example of how 1 + 1 + 1 might equal 2.

If I could go back to 1am, I'd probably retract the word 'lunacy', a bit strong in the cold light of day, but my only concern is that you'd have three guys with clear designs on the head coaching job all thrown in the mix, it's no slight on their individual coaching abilities, just more a question of how it would pan out in the dressing room. Particularly if, as we're told, senior players have been consulted and presumably have given opinions on who their preference would be.

ormond lad · 01-05-2012 10:47AM

Penney has missed out on a role with us according to a paper down in NZ http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/207579/opinion-smith-and-blues-match-made-heaven

Amazotheamazing · 01-05-2012 10:54AM

ormond lad wrote: »

Penney has missed out on a role with us according to a paper down in NZ http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/207579/opinion-smith-and-blues-match-made-heaven

Interesting, as Galwey was on the radio earlier saying foley would need someone experienced beside him. This process could be about to go badly wrong.

willit · 01-05-2012 11:04AM

ormond lad wrote: »

Penney has missed out on a role with us according to a paper down in NZ http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/207579/opinion-smith-and-blues-match-made-heaven

That article also mentions how Mark Anscombe has lead Ulster to a place in the HEC final so I wouldn't be too quick to believe it, although I'm not saying it isn't correct as I have no idea whether it is or not.

irishbucsfan · 01-05-2012 11:09AM

willit wrote: »

ormond lad wrote: »

Penney has missed out on a role with us according to a paper down in NZ http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/207579/opinion-smith-and-blues-match-made-heaven

That article also mentions how Mark Anscombe has lead Ulster to a place in the HEC final so I wouldn't be too quick to believe it, although I'm not saying it isn't correct as I have no idea whether it is or not.

That does cast doubts on the rest of the article alright

onlyrocknroll · 01-05-2012 11:44AM

I wouldn't place much stock in that article.

The article is about an entirely different matter and only contains a half sentence-passing reference to Penney and Munster. It's very doubtful that the journalist received some accurate information that no one else has, and just buried it near the end of an opinion piece.

Between this, and the Anscombe error, I think it's likely the guy just made a mistake.

phog · 01-05-2012 01:45PM

totallegend wrote: »

Ok, let's be clear that I'm not having a go at Munster, just a random blog.

Foley and Umaga do not want to be assistant coaches, they have gone for the head coach job themselves. They clearly think they have the skills necessary and as I said before, both are leaders, strong personalities etc. I just think you need to have one guy in charge and no doubt in anyone's mind over who that is.

So you're view is 3 people go for head coach, one gets it the other two can't work on the same ticket?

I doubt it would be as black and white as that, it's certainly doable if the individuals buy into the whole package presented by the management.

BTW, huge speculation anyway as the coach/ticket isn't yet leaked/announced.

Amazotheamazing · 01-05-2012 03:53PM

Interesting posts from a guy who's usually in the know on munsterfans. Seems Penney was looking pretty certain up till yesterday and big changes behind the scenes.

"Been a while since I was last on this site, forgot passwords and email account details and to was just hassle to get them, many thanks to scotsor for sorting that out for me. All a bit disheartening regards players leaving etc. but whatever about this year being a transition period from here it is a rebuilding period!!

I haven’t looked through the site and most of the threads so if this is all posted all ready then apologies

Going to be all change obviously with tony mcghan gone. It now looks like foley and umanga with umanga looking after the backs. umanga was over and introduced around recently. Everyone was saying this guy penney was getting and up untill today that is what I was being told. So it would be a penney, foley, umanga ticket. but did a google the guy and see what comes up. he says he is staying put To be honest the players don’t even know who is coming in until the last minute in regards coaches or players so take your pick what the makeup will be!!. http://www.allblacks.com/news/19232/...by-commitments
http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/207...ch-made-heaven
Sean Payne is apparently gone they think Niall O Donnovan will be coming in although again that is what they think rather than official.
Holland looks like he is gone as well although no one knew if it was is official or not……. also joey the ozzy fitness coaches (who the players rate highly) is gone.
Also looks like more retirement’s to come im afraid. Don’t ask who as out of respect u just dont say
When you look at who has gone in the last 12 mnths, hayes, flannery, warick, mick o, mafi, TOL, and more to come that’s a lot of guys who have been around for a while from the senior first team squad It also seems like a lot is going on in the set up right now I would think more changes to come"

Teferi · 01-05-2012 03:59PM

If this guy is legit I find this interesting...

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Also looks like more retirement’s to come im afraid. Don’t ask who as out of respect u just dont say

Wally? Who else is relatively old and near retirement in Munster - DOC and POC are still going strong. Strings will probably have a part to play next year.

PhatPiggins · 01-05-2012 04:01PM

I'll have to run that through Google translate: Frontier Gibberish - English , before I can comment

profitius · 01-05-2012 04:12PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Interesting posts from a guy who's usually in the know on munsterfans. Seems Penney was looking pretty certain up till yesterday and big changes behind the scenes.

"Been a while since I was last on this site, forgot passwords and email account details and to was just hassle to get them, many thanks to scotsor for sorting that out for me. All a bit disheartening regards players leaving etc. but whatever about this year being a transition period from here it is a rebuilding period!!

I haven’t looked through the site and most of the threads so if this is all posted all ready then apologies

Going to be all change obviously with tony mcghan gone. It now looks like foley and umanga with umanga looking after the backs. umanga was over and introduced around recently. Everyone was saying this guy penney was getting and up untill today that is what I was being told. So it would be a penney, foley, umanga ticket. but did a google the guy and see what comes up. he says he is staying put To be honest the players don’t even know who is coming in until the last minute in regards coaches or players so take your pick what the makeup will be!!. http://www.allblacks.com/news/19232/...by-commitments
http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/207...ch-made-heaven
Sean Payne is apparently gone they think Niall O Donnovan will be coming in although again that is what they think rather than official.
Holland looks like he is gone as well although no one knew if it was is official or not……. also joey the ozzy fitness coaches (who the players rate highly) is gone.
Also looks like more retirement’s to come im afraid. Don’t ask who as out of respect u just dont say
When you look at who has gone in the last 12 mnths, hayes, flannery, warick, mick o, mafi, TOL, and more to come that’s a lot of guys who have been around for a while from the senior first team squad It also seems like a lot is going on in the set up right now I would think more changes to come"

Theres too many people guessing. Penney was the hot fav yesterday ad now its Foley again.

I think hiring Umaga in any form is stupidity. The man has proved nothing and is an inexperienced coach. Munster need a top quality backs coach not a big name.

Amazotheamazing · 01-05-2012 04:41PM

Teferi wrote: »

If this guy is legit I find this interesting...

Wally? Who else is relatively old and near retirement in Munster - DOC and POC are still going strong. Strings will probably have a part to play next year.

Leamy and/or Wallace?

Cpt_Blackbeard · 01-05-2012 06:32PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Leamy and/or Wallace?

It would be horrible to see either/both players have to retire due to injury. Both players in their prime could have seamlessly slotted into any world XV without looking out of place.

Wallace was still playing top rugby when he picked up his injury. He would/should have been starting for Ireland in the WC had he not been injured against England. Injuries have robbed Leamy of possibly becoming a top international and possibly (/optimistically) world-class player.

phog · 01-05-2012 06:37PM

Teferi wrote: »

If this guy is legit I find this interesting...

Wally? Who else is relatively old and near retirement in Munster - DOC and POC are still going strong. Strings will probably have a part to play next year.

There's only 7 players on the current squad who may be out of contract at the end of season, Wally, Borlase, Cusack, Gleeson, Dineen, Henry and Troy Smith.

There's rumours about Wally and Leamy retiring but we've heard similar beofre about POC so nothing for sure yet.

[Jackass] · 01-05-2012 06:46PM

I'd be amazed if Leamy did, but Wally unfortunately wouldn't suprise me.

Like Horgan, he got a serious injury at a very late stage in his career, and the healing powers aren't what they used to be at that age.

danthefan · 01-05-2012 06:53PM

I'd be very surprised if Leamy is forced to retire as he's just been given a new contract.

Wallace would be a massive shame but hardly unexpected at this stage. He was like a man possessed for those few minutes against England.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 01-05-2012 06:58PM

phog wrote: »

There's only 7 players on the current squad who may be out of contract at the end of season, Wally, Borlase, Cusack, Gleeson, Dineen, Henry and Troy Smith.

There's rumours about Wally and Leamy retiring but we've heard similar beofre about POC so nothing for sure yet.

I'd expect Dineen to earn a new contract, but all the others (Wally inclusive

) will probably be let go/retire. If Penney is involved in the setup, I'd like to see him have some say regarding renewing Borlase's contract. I'd also expect Da. Hurley to retire which would be a great shame, as he had the potential to be great LH.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 01-05-2012 06:58PM

danthefan wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if Leamy is forced to retire as he's just been given a new contract.

Wallace would be a massive shame but hardly unexpected at this stage. He was like a man possessed for those few minutes against England.

A new contract with high insurance built in according to rumours.

That said I really hope that he comes back at a high level.

Lelantos · 01-05-2012 07:06PM

Teferi wrote: »

If this guy is legit I find this interesting...

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Also looks like more retirement’s to come im afraid. Don’t ask who as out of respect u just dont say

Wally? Who else is relatively old and near retirement in Munster - DOC and POC are still going strong. Strings will probably have a part to play next year.

Leamy would be a possible retiree

danthefan · 01-05-2012 07:20PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

A new contract with high insurance built in according to rumours.

That said I really hope that he comes back at a high level.

Unless they're paying a crazy premium, what insurance company is going to insure a guy who might have to imminently retire? The rumour doesn't sound right to me.

[Jackass] · 01-05-2012 07:32PM

It depends on what insurance you're talking about. If it's on the value of the contract from Munsters perspective, I doubt any insurance company in the world would touch it, or the premiums over the course of the contract would cost several times the contract value. If he comes back, there's a massive risk of recurrance of injury. Insurance companies don't gamble. Anything over zero to absolute minimal risk and they wont touch it or they'll charge you so much that it's not worth it.

If it's medical insurance off-set against what he's being paid, i.e. he is subsidising his own insurance through reduced payment, then maybe.

shuffol · 01-05-2012 07:35PM

Off topic lads but whatever happened to John O'Sullivan, a regular in 09 starting a few HC games, I heard at the time he left rugby but anyone know is he involved at all at any level now, he wasnt that old if I remember correctly.

Amazotheamazing · 01-05-2012 07:35PM

phog wrote: »

There's only 7 players on the current squad who may be out of contract at the end of season, Wally, Borlase, Cusack, Gleeson, Dineen, Henry and Troy Smith.

There's rumours about Wally and Leamy retiring but we've heard similar beofre about POC so nothing for sure yet.

Afaik, Smith, Gleeson and Cusack are not having their contracts renewed. Shame about Smith, his knee injury really ruined what could have been a great chance. Cusack I'm not so sure about, he has some level of ability but it's probably lower level in England standard.

Amazotheamazing · 01-05-2012 07:36PM

shuffol wrote: »

Off topic lads but whatever happened to John O'Sullivan, a regular in 09 starting a few HC games, I heard at the time he left rugby but anyone know is he involved at all at any level now, he wasnt that old if I remember correctly.

Went to France but got a few bad injuries, had to retire iirc. He's a fitness instructor of some sort now (afaik). Great player for Connacht but he had an awful run of injuries once he returned to Munster.

phog · 01-05-2012 07:40PM

shuffol wrote: »

Off topic lads but whatever happened to John O'Sullivan, a regular in 09 starting a few HC games, I heard at the time he left rugby but anyone know is he involved at all at any level now, he wasnt that old if I remember correctly.

Didnt he go to France? He was my MOTM for Connacht against Munster in Athlone a few years back on a very wet and windy night that produced only one score, a penalty for Munster.

Edit: Amazo got in before me.

thomond2006 · 01-05-2012 07:44PM

Cusack is 4th choice at Munster, his career won't go anywhere if he stays.

Amazotheamazing · 01-05-2012 07:47PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Cusack is 4th choice at Munster, his career won't go anywhere if he stays.

Yeah, it's definitely for the best that he moves on but i don't think he's a terrible player, just not at the level we'd need a young outhalf to be at.

Benny Cake · 01-05-2012 07:57PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Cusack is 4th choice at Munster, his career won't go anywhere if he stays.

When you're behind Scott Deasy, its time to move on....

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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