Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

30-04-2012 06:27PM

RuggieBear wrote: »

yep. they were physically bigger and better developed but he looked the best player imo.

And David O'Callaghan had an incredible tournament. Showed insane handling skills for a (then) second row.

phog · 30-04-2012 08:40PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Interesting that perception is Penney will get it, any word yet?

Tony Leen is suggesting all 3 of Penney, Umaga and Foley with Niallo getting the managers job.

Amazotheamazing · 30-04-2012 09:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And David O'Callaghan had an incredible tournament. Showed insane handling skills for a (then) second row.

Not convinced by Dave O'Callaghan yet tbh. He might end up back at lock. Is he mobile enough to be a top level flanker?

Amazotheamazing · 30-04-2012 09:07PM

phog wrote: »

Tony Leen is suggesting all 3 of Penney, Umaga and Foley with Niallo getting the managers job.

Interesting, would be a big call on Penney to control the ego's of the coaches below him.

thomond2006 · 30-04-2012 09:14PM

I like the sound of that team, plus keeping Axel in situ means it's not a complete sea change.

PhatPiggins · 30-04-2012 09:17PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I like the sound of that team, plus keeping Axel in situ means it's not a complete sea change.

Er no. Penny is an out and out forwards coach, what would Foley do?You'll end up in a situation where he'll be shoe horned into the defense coach position again.

Amazotheamazing · 30-04-2012 09:19PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Er no. Penny is an out and out forwards coach, what would Foley do?You'll end up in a situation where he'll be shoe horned into the defense coach position again.

I think the head coach position would leave enough space for a fulltime forwards coach as well, if needs be.

the_blackstuff · 30-04-2012 09:23PM

Think id prefer if Umaga wasn't part of our setup. He's track record to date isn't super. Who really is there out there tho

thomond2006 · 30-04-2012 09:30PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Er no. Penny is an out and out forwards coach, what would Foley do?You'll end up in a situation where he'll be shoe horned into the defense coach position again.

I'd like to think the Munster PGB have considered that possibility and figured out a way to combine everyone.

Amazotheamazing · 30-04-2012 09:31PM

the_blackstuff wrote: »

Think id prefer if Umaga wasn't part of our setup. He's track record to date isn't super. Who really is there out there tho

Can hardly be any worse than the mess we currently have.

PhatPiggins · 30-04-2012 10:24PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd like to think the Munster PGB have considered that possibility and figured out a way to combine everyone.

Give Mick Galway the job that'll sort it :pac::pac:

Did we ever hear back from justin on what exactly was the 'valuable contribution' Galway was making to the Munster setup?

danthefan · 30-04-2012 10:25PM

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Give Mick Galway the job that'll sort it :pac::pac:

Did we ever hear back from justin on what exactly was the 'valuable contribution' Galway was making to the Munster setup?

Emmmm, advice. Squad advice. Yeah.

PhatPiggins · 30-04-2012 10:26PM

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I think the head coach position would leave enough space for a fulltime forwards coach as well, if needs be.

Bring him in as a Graham Henry type facilitator ? It could work I guess.

thomond2006 · 30-04-2012 10:31PM

Munster were making Galway a 'valuable contribution' more like.

totallegend · 30-04-2012 10:54PM

phog wrote: »

Tony Leen is suggesting all 3 of Penney, Umaga and Foley with Niallo getting the managers job.

That would be lunacy.

irishbucsfan · 30-04-2012 11:02PM

totallegend wrote: »

That would be lunacy.

Why would it be lunacy? It'd be absolutely the best option.

Penney has head coaching experience. Foley is a forward coach sculpted in the Munster Way. Umaga is totally unproven but in a place where Munster need to make a change. Niallo has the experience and relationships in the IRFU system that Penney would be lacking.

Penney may be a forward coach but he has never coached a team in the northern hemisphere or a team as reliant on forwards as munster. If he comes in he will need Foley.

andrewdcs · 30-04-2012 11:06PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Why would it be lunacy? It'd be absolutely the best option.

Penney has head coaching experience. Foley is a forward coach sculpted in the Munster Way. Umaga is totally unproven but in a place where Munster need to make a change. Niallo has the experience and relationships in the IRFU system that Penney would be lacking.

Penney may be a forward coach but he has never coached a team in the northern hemisphere or a team as reliant on forwards as munster. If he comes in he will need Foley.

4 coaches out of whatever the coaching budget was is surely better than 3.
Or would they lose a physio / player?

totallegend · 30-04-2012 11:23PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Why would it be lunacy? It'd be absolutely the best option.

Penney has head coaching experience. Foley is a forward coach sculpted in the Munster Way. Umaga is totally unproven but in a place where Munster need to make a change. Niallo has the experience and relationships in the IRFU system that Penney would be lacking.

Penney may be a forward coach but he has never coached a team in the northern hemisphere or a team as reliant on forwards as munster. If he comes in he will need Foley.

Too many cooks IMO.

Foley is clearly being groomed for the top job, if he doesn't get it now it's only a matter of time. Umaga does not strike me as the sort of guys who's going to sit in the background and quietly coach the backs. Penney has to deal with a team "in transition" which has some very strong characters in it. Add in Niall O'Donovan (is Payne leaving?) and that's a lot of potential personality clashes.

If Munster want to take Penney and keep Foley, they'd be much better off dropping Umaga and finding an experienced, dedicated backs coach.

irishbucsfan · 30-04-2012 11:34PM

Umaga was a dedicated backs coach under Saint-Andre in Toulon. Foley has only ever been a dedicated forwards coach. I don't see either guy being unable to work in a coaching team. Penney is by far the best head coaching candidate of the three.

Amazotheamazing · 30-04-2012 11:43PM

totallegend wrote: »

Too many cooks IMO.

Foley is clearly being groomed for the top job, if he doesn't get it now it's only a matter of time. Umaga does not strike me as the sort of guys who's going to sit in the background and quietly coach the backs. Penney has to deal with a team "in transition" which has some very strong characters in it. Add in Niall O'Donovan (is Payne leaving?) and that's a lot of potential personality clashes.

If Munster want to take Penney and keep Foley, they'd be much better off dropping Umaga and finding an experienced, dedicated backs coach.

Hard to know, it could fall apart like Cheika and Knox or it could work like the more recent All Blacks management. Anyhow, it's all pretty fanciful at the minute.

phog · 01-05-2012 06:22AM

totallegend wrote: »

Too many cooks IMO.

Foley is clearly being groomed for the top job, if he doesn't get it now it's only a matter of time. Umaga does not strike me as the sort of guys who's going to sit in the background and quietly coach the backs. Penney has to deal with a team "in transition" which has some very strong characters in it. Add in Niall O'Donovan (is Payne leaving?) and that's a lot of potential personality clashes.

If Munster want to take Penney and keep Foley, they'd be much better off dropping Umaga and finding an experienced, dedicated backs coach.

Wouldn't every squad have strong characters and every coaching/management ticket have a number of personnel that could lead to personality clashes?

Why would Foley, Umaga and Penney be lunacy and another combination be great?

totallegend · 01-05-2012 06:40AM

phog wrote: »

Wouldn't every squad have strong characters and every coaching/management ticket have a number of personnel that could lead to personality clashes?

Why would Foley, Umaga and Penney be lunacy and another combination be great?

Ok, let's be clear that I'm not having a go at Munster, just a random blog.

Foley and Umaga do not want to be assistant coaches, they have gone for the head coach job themselves. They clearly think they have the skills necessary and as I said before, both are leaders, strong personalities etc. I just think you need to have one guy in charge and no doubt in anyone's mind over who that is.

Otacon · 01-05-2012 07:26AM

totallegend wrote: »

Ok, let's be clear that I'm not having a go at Munster, just a random blog.

Foley and Umaga do not want to be assistant coaches, they have gone for the head coach job themselves. They clearly think they have the skills necessary and as I said before, both are leaders, strong personalities etc. I just think you need to have one guy in charge and no doubt in anyone's mind over who that is.

Do you have a link for the bolded bit? Hadn't heard that myself.

irishbucsfan · 01-05-2012 07:31AM

I think you're looking for a fault in the ticket. I don't think they'd be given the job if they weren't prepared to work in the structure.

It's the best possible of combination of the candidates skills.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 01-05-2012 07:47AM

Provided we do get the setup that Leen has suggested, hopefully Penney will bring some top scrum coach with him for the ride. None of the coaches on the proposed ticket have any serious top level experience either, which would probably indicate that their wage demands wouldn't be much higher than the men they are replacing.

01-05-2012 07:55AM

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Provided we do get the setup that Leen has suggested, hopefully Penney will bring some top scrum coach with him for the ride. None of the coaches on the proposed ticket have any serious top level experience either, which would probably indicate that their wage demands wouldn't be much higher than the men they are replacing.

Is Botha not signed up for another season? He was pretty much a scrum coach at Ulster, I'd imagine he's still fulfilling that role with Munster.

touts · 01-05-2012 07:59AM

As Harry Redknapp just found out anything up to the actual announcement is just speculation. I think the most interesting comment in Leen's article was not to expect an announcement this week. That means they are still sorting it all out which means things are far less certain than some of the "in the know" media like to claim.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 01-05-2012 08:00AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is Botha not signed up for another season? He was pretty much a scrum coach at Ulster, I'd imagine he's still fulfilling that role with Munster.

He is, but McCarthy is the dedicated scrum coach. Regardless of Botha's ability to help coach the starting team, we need someone else to coach the props that won't be directly involved in the match preparation every week.

totallegend · 01-05-2012 08:47AM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think you're looking for a fault in the ticket. I don't think they'd be given the job if they weren't prepared to work in the structure.

I am not. I've explained why I don't think it would be a great idea. You seem to be dismissing it as Munster-bashing, it's not.

And let's be very clear on this, this is not "the ticket", this is a top-of-the-head suggestion from a blogger, he doesn't claim to have the inside track and this 'story' hasn't even merited being published in the paper.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's the best possible of combination of the candidates skills.

I am not criticising their skills (I am not criticising them in any way). You could combine Clive Woodward, Warren Gatland and Joe Schmidt on a coaching ticket and you'd have an awesome array of skills, but I'd hate to see how it would work on a rugby pitch.

Amazotheamazing · 01-05-2012 09:54AM

totallegend wrote: »

I am not. I've explained why I don't think it would be a great idea. You seem to be dismissing it as Munster-bashing, it's not.

And let's be very clear on this, this is not "the ticket", this is a top-of-the-head suggestion from a blogger, he doesn't claim to have the inside track and this 'story' hasn't even merited being published in the paper.

I am not criticising their skills (I am not criticising them in any way). You could combine Clive Woodward, Warren Gatland and Joe Schmidt on a coaching ticket and you'd have an awesome array of skills, but I'd hate to see how it would work on a rugby pitch.

I think it would depend on the strength of the head coach and his vision for how the team should play. Schmidt worked well as a coach for Cotter but has been extraordinary as a head coach, for example.

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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