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NBA Regular Season 2011/2012

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    #482
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    buyer95 wrote: »
    Knicks are playing exceptionally at the moment, especially Anthony. Makes me smile when in another nba forum here, I was the only one who stuck up for him, when people said he was overated! 39 points last night says otherwise!

    That all depends on how highly you rate him. For me he is an exceptionally talented player but is let down by his poor attitude. I don't think he will ever be up there with the likes of Kobe but not too far behind.
    Million miles away from being season MVP.


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    #483
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    The more I see the Artest Elbow the more I think he should have the book thrown at him, he should definitely get enough games to make sure he doesn't make any appearances in the playoffs.
    You just cannot do that especially if you have such a bad history of suspensions and you are a beast of a man that could really cause serious damage to someone with that type of elbow, Harden is lucky its only a concussion he has.


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    #484
    SoulGuy
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭SoulGuy


    The only two guys that deserve an MVP vote this year are LeBron & Durant. They were clearly the two best players in the league this season and #7 was far behind each of them. IMO it should go to LeBron.


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    #485
    killwill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭killwill


    SoulGuy wrote: »
    The only two guys that deserve an MVP vote this year are LeBron & Durant. They were clearly the two best players in the league this season and #7 was far behind each of them. IMO it should go to LeBron.

    Durant would have been my vote tbh. saying that I had no complaints with LeBron getting it either.


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    #486
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    If you haven't heard, you're probably safe giving Miami/Boston a miss tonight. Both teams in full cruise mode, with Lebron, Wade, Rondo, Garnett and Allen being saved for the weekend.


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    #487
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Oh, and sorry for spamming but Artest suspended for 7 games. Bit of a let-down, possible he won't even miss one full playoff series (unless the Mavs have an inspired repeat of last year).


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    #488
    killwill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭killwill


    7 games in a fair enough suspension I reckon.


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    #489
    padraig_f
    Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭padraig_f


    lol, Heat 34 - Celtics 28 at half-time.


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    #490
    Carcharodon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭Carcharodon


    killwill wrote: »
    7 games in a fair enough suspension I reckon.

    I honestly don't think so, he has crossed the line too many times and this latest one was a very cowardly action that could of seriously injured another player.

    Just my opinion, hopefully Lakers lose in first round anyway, they will badly miss Artest, he has been playing exceptionally well of late.


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    #491
    killwill
    Registered Users Posts: 2,785 ✭✭✭killwill


    Carcharodon wrote: »
    I honestly don't think so, he has crossed the line too many times and this latest one was a very cowardly action that could of seriously injured another player.

    Just my opinion, hopefully Lakers lose in first round anyway, they will badly miss Artest, he has been playing exceptionally well of late.

    Yeah it is a tough one tbh.
    I think for elbowing a plyer a 7 game ban is ok.
    However Artest's track record and the severity of this incident is worse than your typical elbow.

    All I can say is roll on the playoffs!!!


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    #492
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    killwill wrote: »
    Yeah it is a tough one tbh.
    I think for elbowing a plyer a 7 game ban is ok.
    However Artest's track record and the severity of this incident is worse than your typical elbow.

    All I can say is roll on the playoffs!!!
    Reputation should never be taken into account when issuing bans. Take each incident as an individual. 7 games is perfectly acceptable here


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    #493
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,671 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Reputation should never be taken into account when issuing bans. Take each incident as an individual. 7 games is perfectly acceptable here

    not really if a player repeatedly offends it means hes not learned his lesson and a harsher ban is needed


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    #494
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    nerd69 wrote: »
    not really if a player repeatedly offends it means hes not learned his lesson and a harsher ban is needed
    No. This isn't some sort of crime you're dealing with. Things happen in the heat of the moment and some players don't keep control of thier emotions as well as others.
    Would you be in favour of some kind of 3 strikes and you're out rule


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    #495
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    It is a crime though. When you deliberately elbow someone in the head for no reason...that's assault.

    Reputation should, of course, be taken into account when judging incidents of this nature. It sets an example to the rest of the league and young children watching. If you
    don't ban repeat offenders harsher, it sends a message they can just carry on. 7 games is nothing in the context of basketball.


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    #496
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    It is a crime though. When you deliberately elbow someone in the head for no reason...that's assault.

    Reputation should, of course, be taken into account when judging incidents of this nature. It sets an example to the rest of the league and young children watching. If you
    don't ban repeat offenders harsher, it sends a message they can just carry on. 7 games is nothing in the context of basketball.
    Jesus wept!!!!!!!!!! It is a crime??????????
    I think you'll find its called a foul!!!!!!!!!
    Otherwise a charge or stray elbow could be considered a crime.

    So what if young children are watching. If my kids ever look up to MWP as a role model I'll know I've failed as a parent


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    #497
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    It's not a case of them having to look up to him, it's a case of whether or not they'll now elbow and knock out people they dislike during their next high school game because the NBA aren't sending a loud message to say "This is wrong." If you don't think that'd happen, regardless of quality of parenting, you don't know children very well. These are professionals and should conduct themselves on the court as such. They should set the example for how the game is played.

    And if you elbow someone during the course of the game, trying to make a block or something, that's fair enough. When you elbow someone in the head while celebrating, that's a different story. It's essentially assault and, although he mightn't be charged for it, the NBA should still treat it as such.


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    #498
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    It's not a case of them having to look up to him, it's a case of whether or not they'll now elbow and knock out people they dislike during their next high school game because the NBA aren't sending a loud message to say "This is wrong." If you don't think that'd happen, regardless of quality of parenting, you don't know children very well. These are professionals and should conduct themselves on the court as such. They should set the example for how the game is played.

    And if you elbow someone during the course of the game, trying to make a block or something, that's fair enough. When you elbow someone in the head while celebrating, that's a different story. It's essentially assault and, although he mightn't be charged for it, the NBA should still treat it as such.
    Unlikely. Regardless of what someone else does and how they are reprimanded individuals still know right from wrong.

    The NBA is sending out a message saying this is wrong in the form of a 7 game ban.
    If you were to bring criminal prosecutions into these situations there would be court cases every other day not just in the nba but in all sports.


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    #499
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    There is actually a huge controversy in NFL on a similar subject, with the New Orleans Saints having their GM, head coach and defensive coordinator suspended for a year for encouraging players to injure other players deliberately. So yeah, sports do take it seriously when you go out of your way to use the play of field to deliberately hurt or assault fellow players.

    And again, 7 games in the context of a basketball season is nothing. When you take the remaining regular season games, it won't even cover one full playoff series. If a player in football got a 7-game ban for such a vicious, deliberate attack, the ban would be seen as too light. And 7 games in football means much more than in basketball. Another balls up from David Stern & co. They're making a habit of terrible calls this season.


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    #500
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    There is actually a huge controversy in NFL on a similar subject, with the New Orleans Saints having their GM, head coach and defensive coordinator suspended for a year for encouraging players to injure other players deliberately. So yeah, sports do take it seriously when you go out of your way to use the play of field to deliberately hurt or assault fellow players.

    And again, 7 games in the context of a basketball season is nothing. When you take the remaining regular season games, it won't even cover one full playoff series. If a player in football got a 7-game ban for such a vicious, deliberate attack, the ban would be seen as too light. And 7 games in football means much more than in basketball. Another balls up from David Stern & co. They're making a habit of terrible calls this season.
    How is the NFL situation similar. Has Mike Brown told MWP to do this??????


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    #501
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    How do you not see the similarities??

    The underlying message of both is 'It's not acceptable to deliberately aim to hurt your opponent on the field of play'. Only, apparently, it's more acceptable in basketball.


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    #502
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    How do you not see the similarities??

    The underlying message of both is 'It's not acceptable to deliberately aim to hurt your opponent on the field of play'. Only, apparently, it's more acceptable in basketball.
    Well first of all the major issue with the NFL claims are that it was premeditated and opposing players had bountys on thier heads. There is no evidence to suggest the same is happening in this case.
    I whole heartedly agree that it is unacceptable to do what MWP did but its the talk of it being a criminal offence and that past issues should be taken into account when handing out suspensions thats gets me annoyed.

    While he may not be the most level headed person in the world I don't beleive he planned to elbow Harden before the game.

    An idiotic thing to do? Yes
    Should he serve the ban? Yes


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    #503
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    I agree that it wasn't pre-meditated (however I'd also say that the coaches encouraging the players to do this was what made the Saints case much worse, rather than the pre-meditation). You can't take the heat of the moment as a defence though. Again, these are professionals paid extremely well and should be expected to handle these situations.

    Put it this way: why do we suspend players? To punish them for their actions, set an example to the rest of the basketball world and to discourage the players from doing the same. With them now having set a precedent, what's to stop a Bobcats player from doing the exact same tonight? They get an early end to a miserable season and an extra-long summer break as 'punishment'!

    As for Artest, he has shown flagrant disregard for the rules and his fellow players and will, no doubt, be laughing that he continues to pretty much get away with it unscathed. They missed a massive opportunity here to set an example.


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    #504
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    I agree that it wasn't pre-meditated (however I'd also say that the coaches encouraging the players to do this was what made the Saints case much worse, rather than the pre-meditation). You can't take the heat of the moment as a defence though. Again, these are professionals paid extremely well and should be expected to handle these situations.

    Put it this way: why do we suspend players? To punish them for their actions, set an example to the rest of the basketball world and to discourage the players from doing the same. With them now having set a precedent, what's to stop a Bobcats player from doing the exact same tonight? They get an early end to a miserable season and an extra-long summer break as 'punishment'!

    As for Artest, he has shown flagrant disregard for the rules and his fellow players and will, no doubt, be laughing that he continues to pretty much get away with it unscathed. They missed a massive opportunity here to set an example.
    I hate this arguement that because someone is paid they have to be some sort of emotionless robot who doesn't react to situations. I get paid in work and I lose the rag every now and then its only natural.
    No doubt be laughing. You clearly have never seen any interview with MWP. There was a documentary done before, I think it was part of the ESPN 30 for 30 series that followed MWP and shows a good insight into his love for the game and his mental health issues


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    #505
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    No wonder you think it's a grand suspension, you seem to be arguing that if you have a bad day in work you go around elbowing people! :p

    A bad day for a basketball star is scoring low, being poor on defence, giving away sloppy turnovers etc. As a professional, whether you're earning minimum wage or millions, you should keep your emotions in check on the job and not lash out physically at others (unless your profession is in MMA).

    Though I haven't seen that documentary, I am aware of Artest's history and his mental health issues. For me, though it mightn't sound nice, mental health is no excuse especially if it has been identified and diagnosed. As with an injury, if he is deemed mentally fit enough to step on a court then he is mentally fit enough to be called to task for his actions. It's not acceptable to use mental health issues as a catch all excuse for misdeeds and it demeans the gravity of the problems others suffer from to do so.


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    #506
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    No wonder you think it's a grand suspension, you seem to be arguing that if you have a bad day in work you go around elbowing people! :p

    A bad day for a basketball star is scoring low, being poor on defence, giving away sloppy turnovers etc. As a professional, whether you're earning minimum wage or millions, you should keep your emotions in check on the job and not lash out physically at others (unless your profession is in MMA).

    Though I haven't seen that documentary, I am aware of Artest's history and his mental health issues. For me, though it mightn't sound nice, mental health is no excuse especially if it has been identified and diagnosed. As with an injury, if he is deemed mentally fit enough to step on a court then he is mentally fit enough to be called to task for his actions. It's not acceptable to use mental health issues as a catch all excuse for misdeeds and it demeans the gravity of the problems others suffer from to do so.
    You're right that is exactly what I said.

    Look I think we almost agree on this. You simply think the punishment should be increased.

    I'm going to say something now that should never be said on forums. Let's agree to disagree


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    #507
    leggo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    I was only slagging there. Yay for diplomacy. Good game, good game.


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    #508
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    leggo wrote: »
    I was only slagging there. Yay for diplomacy. Good game, good game.
    I mean don't get me wrong I love a good debate, but the basketball community on here is too small to be arguing on a thread that gets maybe 2 posts a day.


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    #509
    moneyman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭moneyman


    Felexicon wrote: »
    No. This isn't some sort of crime you're dealing with. Things happen in the heat of the moment and some players don't keep control of thier emotions as well as others.
    Would you be in favour of some kind of 3 strikes and you're out rule


    I will just chip in and say that I disagree with this. History certainly should be taken into account. If Artest hasn't gotten it by now, he's not going to get it. He's extremely lucky to have only gotten a 7 game ban, an intentional elbow with that much force behind it could have easily ended a lot worse. He got Harden right behind the ear - that is a knockout spot. It's not an excuse that some players can't control their emotions, that's the very problem. They need to learn how. The onus is on them to control themselves and if they can't do it, they should be gone.

    Artest is a ticking time-bomb, as always. Other players are at risk when he's on the court. Even moreso now that Bynum has channelled his inner Artest and they've teamed up. Artest and the Lakers can count themselves very lucky that Artest is only gone for 7 games.


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    #510
    buyer95
    Registered Users Posts: 3,343 ✭✭✭buyer95


    What do ye guys think is a better outcome for the knicks, the heat or the bulls in the 1st round? Personally I think we would have a better chance against the bulls, who would have a hard time dealing with Anthony, in his current form. Add to that Shumpert's lock down d, which will put pressure on the bulls to find other scorers, if he matches up with rose... Chandler v Noah would be a great battle too. I think that would be a great series, but for it to happen the knicks need the 8th seed, imo theres a lot to be said for tanking it against charlotte tonight,and hoping the 76ers do the business in detroit


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    #511
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,671 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Jesus wept!!!!!!!!!! It is a crime??????????
    I think you'll find its called a foul!!!!!!!!!
    Otherwise a charge or stray elbow could be considered a crime.

    So what if young children are watching. If my kids ever look up to MWP as a role model I'll know I've failed as a parent

    it is a crime if you walked up to someone on the street and elbowed them youd get done for assault charges are a part of the game elbowing someone in the head is not

    i always felt zidane should have been done for his head butt personally


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