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Getting stopped by the guards.

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24

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    #32
    Indricotherium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    Zambia wrote: »
    What is the piont of this ? What possible purpose could it serve?

    I think the op expected this thread to be a Garda bashing love in and has now gone on the defensive as its turned out differently.

    I suspect he gets stopped by Garda traffic units quite often.

    I think it's safe enough to assume this is because of the car he drives. I'm going to go out on a limb and say late ninties Honda civic. Loads of go faster bits stuck on it.

    Sin cad is doigh liom ar aon nós


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    #33
    Zambia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    I was thinking it was an effort to somehow get out of a infringement by having a defence of I did not know what the garda was talking about.


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    #34
    Jesus Shaves
    Registered Users Posts: 2,959 ✭✭✭Jesus Shaves


    Milk & Honey wrote: »
    The reason is that he starts challenging the guard with "why are you stopping ME?".

    He has every right to ask why they are stopping him
    I've been searched twice for no reason at all, The first time i let them search me, the second time i said no because they had no valid grounds, they knew this and left me alone.
    There are some power tripping guards out there who do this constantly, it gives a bad name to the decent ones.


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    #35
    Indricotherium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    darokane wrote: »
    Milk & Honey wrote: »
    The reason is that he starts challenging the guard with "why are you stopping ME?".

    He has every right to ask why they are stopping him
    I've been searched twice for no reason at all, The first time i let them search me, the second time i said no because they had no valid grounds, they knew this and left me alone.
    There are some power tripping guards out there who do this constantly, it gives a bad name to the decent ones.

    He has that right.

    However the op seems to be looking for a way to deliberately delay and obstruct gardaí going about their job.

    I speak reasonable Irish, but I am totally fluent in English.

    I think I'd prefer to interact with the law in English.

    I wonder if the op was calling an ambulance or a fire brigade, applying for social welfare or a medical card, would he be so quick to insist an organ of the state deal with him I'm his native tongue.


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    #36
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    Forgot to mention that you should check that the paper in the Garda's notebook carries an Irish made watermark.

    Cant trace the authority for this at the mom, but it used to be a big issue in the GAA, and many Gardaí are in the GAA. I am sure they would appreciate you asking


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    #37
    beetlefan
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭beetlefan


    GCDLawstudent wrote: »
    Dealing with this in isolation as it's a fairly interesting point.

    Why is a garda supposed to speak Irish? In even the 1937 Constitution the framers put in that English was an official langauge. Move this up to the current day many people who are not Irish serve in the AGS. Are you suggesting that all these people should be excluded because they don't speak Irish?

    If someone only speaks Irish then of course provisions should be made. Speaking Irish when the garda doesn't and refusing to speak English is just being obstructive. If you feel that strongly about it you should look at geting the policy of AGS changed or perhaps putting forward a constitutional amendment.

    EDIT: Incidently people doing this and then tripping over their Irish once it gets complicated - have they committed any type of offence such as obstruction? If not in Irish, if I sit there saying parlez-vous francais when its clear from even those three words I have no french is there an offence?
    Why should the garda have to speak irish when english is the most used language in Ireland. Surely the garda has a right to speak english only if he chooses, just like the other person has the right to speak irish. I wish that in the forthcoming referendum, one more question could be put to the people i.e should irish be removed from the life support that it currently enjoys from the state. If irish cant survive without a special position, grants, extra marks in exams etc, then it should be unplugged from the life support and let die with dignity.


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    #38
    Grolschevik
    Registered Users Posts: 3,472 ✭✭✭Grolschevik


    Indricotherium wrote: »
    Did the Garda produce his oath?
    nuac wrote: »
    and btw check that the Garda is wearing his/her own hat. Sometimes in leaving the patrol car they get their hats mixed up. That would fatally affect the validity of any evidence gathered. Make sure all the Gardai present fit on their hats to make sure the garda dealing with you has the correct one.
    BornToKill wrote: »
    Is it that they couldn't understand you or couldn't stand under you?
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    Make sure he speaks IRISH and not Irish as well.
    nuac wrote: »
    Forgot to mention that you should check that the paper in the Garda's notepaper carries an Irish made watermark.

    Cant trace the authority for this at the mom, but it used to be a big issue in the GAA, and many Gardaí are in the GAA. I am sure they would appreciate you asking

    While people who frequent this forum know these are jokes, many people just don't get sarcasm and/or are gullible and/or take what's written on this forum as truth. It worries me a bit to think that someone, somewhere, might walk away from this thread believing any of this.

    Perhaps we should not jokingly offer Freeman-type "advice". Also, I don't think the OP was out to try Freeman-like stuff, and maybe we shouldn't have automatically jumped to the conclusion that he was...


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    #39
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Can anybody say from their own experience or knowledge what happens in a situation where a drunk driver for example is fluent and pulls up to a MAT checkpoint and just point blank refuses to engage with the Garda unless he/she speaks in Irish to him/her?

    I would imagine it would be risky to arrest for failing to provide a breath specimen there and then unless requested in Irish?

    I would say there is no getting around an inability to speak to the person in Irish if they insist on conversing through Irish?

    If the person is obviously intoxicated and arrested which is legitimate but what happens when being processed at the station? Typically would there be a member fluent enough within easy reach to be called to process the arrested person? At what about the MIC reading the rights and the Garda operating the intoxilizer? or can one fluent Garda step in and do all three?


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    #40
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,270 ✭✭✭source


    McCrack wrote: »
    Can anybody say from their own experience or knowledge what happens in a situation where a drunk driver for example is fluent and pulls up to a MAT checkpoint and just point blank refuses to engage with the Garda unless he/she speaks in Irish to him/her?

    I would imagine it would be risky to arrest for failing to provide a breath specimen there and then unless requested in Irish?

    I would say there is no getting around an inability to speak to the person in Irish if they insist on conversing through Irish?

    If the person is obviously intoxicated and arrested which is legitimate but what happens when being processed at the station? Typically would there be a member fluent enough within easy reach to be called to process the arrested person? At what about the MIC reading the rights and the Garda operating the intoxilizer? or can one fluent Garda step in and do all three?

    Anyone not fluent in English gets a copy of the notice of rights in their own language, they can then read the notice in their own language while the member in charge reads out the English version.


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    #41
    ieoinu
    Registered Users Posts: 38 ✭ieoinu


    McCrack wrote: »
    Can anybody say from their own experience or knowledge what happens in a situation where a drunk driver for example is fluent and pulls up to a MAT checkpoint and just point blank refuses to engage with the Garda unless he/she speaks in Irish to him/her?

    I would imagine it would be risky to arrest for failing to provide a breath specimen there and then unless requested in Irish?

    I would say there is no getting around an inability to speak to the person in Irish if they insist on conversing through Irish?

    If the person is obviously intoxicated and arrested which is legitimate but what happens when being processed at the station? Typically would there be a member fluent enough within easy reach to be called to process the arrested person? At what about the MIC reading the rights and the Garda operating the intoxilizer? or can one fluent Garda step in and do all three?

    One of the main parts of the Irish training in Templemore is dealing with drunk drivers through Irish (as that is when you come across educated idiots breaking teh law and trying to outsmart the system with pisógs). I have used it, not at a MAT but in the course of dealing with a DD. After realising that I'd not problem processing him as gaeilge he recanted and asked to be dealt with in English. I'm no gaeilgóir either, plenty of my colleagues are though.
    There would be no issue with obtaining a translator to process and deal with the DD if none of the Gardaí had a word of Irish as is done with every other language difference. The Constitutional provision of Irish doesn't mean that the exact Garda/other Government agent/body has to they-themselves converse with you directly through Irish. It is an entitlement that can be provided via an interpreter.

    I saw a case where the whole lot was dealt with through Irish even the court case was, and the Gardaí prosecuting's level of Irish wiped the floor with that of the accused. Be careful what you wish for as they say...


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    #42
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    I appreciate that but as you know there are many proofs to be satisfied with DD. One of them is that the accused was told in ordinary language the reason for his arrest. Also how can a failure to provide a breath sample at a MAT checkpoint be preferred if the accused insisted on Irish being used?

    Now at the side of the road would you just wait (I believe up to an hour is permitted) until a fluent Garda attends or a translator? or would you just arrest the person anyway and deal with it at the station?

    This can go I suppose to any person non-national not just a person wanting to speak through Irish.

    The reason I am using DD as an example is because obviously time is of the essence in processing these offences and delays because of language issues can make or break bringing a prosecution or not.


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    #43
    battle_hardend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭battle_hardend


    _pure_mule_ wrote: »
    thanks for your response. But surely you cant be arrested for exercising a right just because the guard is unable to deal with it? Its not an offence speak Irish so how could you be arrested?

    it depends how much hassle you are willing to tollerate , no judge will punish you for answering a guard in irish as that is your right , its irrelevant whether its awkward for the guard , thier is no reason and certainly no obligation to make an effort to make life easier for the guards in the eyes of the law , you really have to ask yourself whether annoying the guard is something you are prepared to put up with , guards can arrest you on any number of spurious allegations and often do , you might spend a few hours in a cell , you might get roughed around a bit in the interview room ( metaphorically speaking ) but its unlikely any charges will be brought and even they are , the judge will toss them , guards have a degree of licence to bully people and do , as long as you know the rules of the game , you have little to fear


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    #44
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    McCrack wrote: »
    I appreciate that but as you know there are many proofs to be satisfied with DD. One of them is that the accused was told in ordinary language the reason for his arrest. Also how can a failure to provide a breath sample at a MAT checkpoint be preferred if the accused insisted on Irish being used?

    Now at the side of the road would you just wait (I believe up to an hour is permitted) until a fluent Garda attends or a translator? or would you just arrest the person anyway and deal with it at the station?

    This can go I suppose to any person non-national not just a person wanting to speak through Irish.

    The reason I am using DD as an example is because obviously time is of the essence in processing these offences and delays because of language issues can make or break bringing a prosecution or not.


    It would be the same as an person who does not speak English. Many foreign nationals with little or no English are arrested on suspicion of Dd. The guard will inform the person in English that he is arresting them under whatever section and also ibn ordinary languauge that he is arresting them for whatever. When the person gets to a station an interpreter can be sourced. It doesn't have to be another guard.
    Someone trying to allege an unlawful arrest would have a mountain to climb.
    1. They would have to show they couldn't understand English and didn't know the reason for their arrest.
    2. They would ahve to show that some other right was infringed when they were processed at the station.
    They would have to show that as a result some evidence against them was unconstitutionally obtained or that they couldn't get a fair trial.

    Good luck with that.


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    #45
    Kosseegan
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 987 ✭✭✭Kosseegan


    darokane wrote: »
    He has every right to ask why they are stopping him
    I've been searched twice for no reason at all, The first time i let them search me, the second time i said no because they had no valid grounds, they knew this and left me alone.
    There are some power tripping guards out there who do this constantly, it gives a bad name to the decent ones.

    There is a difference between stopping and searching. Stopping is reasonably routine and can be for the purpose of giving a warning. Light bulb missing, check tax, check tyres etc. It is stupid getting on one's dignity about it.
    The end result is often a decision to teach the motorist a lesson. Demand licence and insurance be produced. Not find a record of the production and request a summons. Put the idiot driver to the trouble of going to court to show his documents and insist he did produce them. It is invariably impossible to prove that it was deliberate.


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    #46
    Crann na Beatha
    Registered Users Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭Crann na Beatha


    This post has been deleted.


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    #47
    battle_hardend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭battle_hardend


    Aquila wrote: »
    I know some of ye think the Gardai are horrible to deal with,however try dealing with certain members of the police force in Ukraine..there is no comparison,I found the Gardai always helpful and highly professional in my dealings with them.

    thats been your experience and im happy for you but dont assume its a perfect reflection

    i would be slow to compare with police forces in less developed countries


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    #48
    _pure_mule_
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭_pure_mule_


    Grolschevik wrote: »
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    Did the Garda produce his oath?
    nuac wrote: »
    and btw check that the Garda is wearing his/her own hat. Sometimes in leaving the patrol car they get their hats mixed up. That would fatally affect the validity of any evidence gathered. Make sure all the Gardai present fit on their hats to make sure the garda dealing with you has the correct one.
    BornToKill wrote: »
    Is it that they couldn't understand you or couldn't stand under you?
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    Make sure he speaks IRISH and not Irish as well.
    nuac wrote: »
    Forgot to mention that you should check that the paper in the Garda's notepaper carries an Irish made watermark.

    Cant trace the authority for this at the mom, but it used to be a big issue in the GAA, and many Gardaí are in the GAA. I am sure they would appreciate you asking

    While people who frequent this forum know these are jokes, many people just don't get sarcasm and/or are gullible and/or take what's written on this forum as truth. It worries me a bit to think that someone, somewhere, might walk away from this thread believing any of this.

    Perhaps we should not jokingly offer Freeman-type "advice". Also, I don't think the OP was out to try Freeman-like stuff, and maybe we shouldn't have automatically jumped to the conclusion that he was...
    Finally someone who thinks rationally about things, and dosent jump to conclusion on what sort of personality I have, what car I drive, what language I speak?! What relevance has any of that got to do with the questions posed? It amuses me that you cannot ask a question on here without someone getting all sarcastic or defensive. Chill people!!!!


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    #49
    _pure_mule_
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭_pure_mule_


    Indricotherium wrote: »
    Zambia wrote: »
    What is the piont of this ? What possible purpose could it serve?

    I think the op expected this thread to be a Garda bashing love in and has now gone on the defensive as its turned out differently.

    I suspect he gets stopped by Garda traffic units quite often.

    I think it's safe enough to assume this is because of the car he drives. I'm going to go out on a limb and say late ninties Honda civic. Loads of go faster bits stuck on it.

    Sin cad is doigh liom ar aon nós
    You got it spot on;) Your a clever one!


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    #50
    Procrastastudy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,224 ✭✭✭Procrastastudy


    OP I know from personal experiance people on this board treat you in line with your tone and subject matter. While I realise this post will illicit another smart remark from you, which is fine I'm pretty cheeky in my responces, you may want to evaluate how you put yourself across if you don't want people to jump to conclusions.


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    #51
    Indricotherium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    _pure_mule_ wrote: »
    Grolschevik wrote: »
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    Did the Garda produce his oath?
    nuac wrote: »
    and btw check that the Garda is wearing his/her own hat. Sometimes in leaving the patrol car they get their hats mixed up. That would fatally affect the validity of any evidence gathered. Make sure all the Gardai present fit on their hats to make sure the garda dealing with you has the correct one.
    BornToKill wrote: »
    Is it that they couldn't understand you or couldn't stand under you?
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    Make sure he speaks IRISH and not Irish as well.
    nuac wrote: »
    Forgot to mention that you should check that the paper in the Garda's notepaper carries an Irish made watermark.

    Cant trace the authority for this at the mom, but it used to be a big issue in the GAA, and many Gardaí are in the GAA. I am sure they would appreciate you asking

    While people who frequent this forum know these are jokes, many people just don't get sarcasm and/or are gullible and/or take what's written on this forum as truth. It worries me a bit to think that someone, somewhere, might walk away from this thread believing any of this.

    Perhaps we should not jokingly offer Freeman-type "advice". Also, I don't think the OP was out to try Freeman-like stuff, and maybe we shouldn't have automatically jumped to the conclusion that he was...
    Finally someone who thinks rationally about things, and dosent jump to conclusion on what sort of personality I have, what car I drive, what language I speak?! What relevance has any of that got to do with the questions posed? It amuses me that you cannot ask a question on here without someone getting all sarcastic or defensive. Chill people!!!!

    While the op may not be a freman there is a ring of fremanism about his original question; can you deliberately delay a Garda by insisting to be dealt with in Irish?

    The answer to can you is yes.

    Should you, is a different question.

    IMO no you shouldn't. If the op is innocent as he claims, he will be deliberately prolonging his interaction with the Garda in question.

    If he is not then he is needlessly antagonising a man doing his job and creating potential problems for himself down the road.

    I'm open to correction here, but I assume there is a much smaller and therefore more expensive pool of barristers/solicitors with the required competence in Irish to defend a case.


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    #52
    _pure_mule_
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭_pure_mule_


    GCDLawstudent wrote: »
    OP I know from personal experiance people on this board treat you in line with your tone and subject matter. While I realise this post will illicit another smart remark from you, which is fine I'm pretty cheeky in my responces, you may want to evaluate how you put yourself across if you don't want people to jump to conclusions.
    I know I too can be quite sarcastic in my replies but you did start the whole sarcastic thing thing. But can we be friends?:)


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    #53
    battle_hardend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭battle_hardend


    Indricotherium wrote: »
    While the op may not be a freman there is a ring of fremanism about his original question; can you deliberately delay a Garda by insisting to be dealt with in Irish?

    The answer to can you is yes.

    Should you, is a different question.

    IMO no you shouldn't. If the op is innocent as he claims, he will be deliberately prolonging his interaction with the Garda in question.

    If he is not then he is needlessly antagonising a man doing his job and creating potential problems for himself down the road.

    I'm open to correction here, but I assume there is a much smaller and therefore more expensive pool of barristers/solicitors with the required competence in Irish to defend a case.


    electing to answer a guard in irish does not constitute antagonism by any legal definition in this country , its a legal right FFS , whether a guard gets his back up over such an approach is neither here nor there and should not be of concern to the gaeilgeor


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    #54
    Indricotherium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    battle_hardend wrote: »
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    While the op may not be a freman there is a ring of fremanism about his original question; can you deliberately delay a Garda by insisting to be dealt with in Irish?

    The answer to can you is yes.

    Should you, is a different question.

    IMO no you shouldn't. If the op is innocent as he claims, he will be deliberately prolonging his interaction with the Garda in question.

    If he is not then he is needlessly antagonising a man doing his job and creating potential problems for himself down the road.

    I'm open to correction here, but I assume there is a much smaller and therefore more expensive pool of barristers/solicitors with the required competence in Irish to defend a case.


    electing to answer a guard in irish does not constitute antagonism by any legal definition in this country , its a legal right FFS , whether a guard gets his back up over such an approach is neither here nor there and should not be of concern to the gaeilgeor

    Not in a legal sense no.

    But in a real sense it will. And it will effect how you are dealt with by the law enforcement officer in question. I think it should go without saying that this should t be done.

    Not everything that is legal should be done at every possible opportunity.

    can you see the wisdom on not antagonising a Garda who has stopped and questioned you for whatever reason?


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    #55
    _pure_mule_
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭_pure_mule_


    Indricotherium wrote: »
    battle_hardend wrote: »
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    While the op may not be a freman there is a ring of fremanism about his original question; can you deliberately delay a Garda by insisting to be dealt with in Irish?

    The answer to can you is yes.

    Should you, is a different question.

    IMO no you shouldn't. If the op is innocent as he claims, he will be deliberately prolonging his interaction with the Garda in question.

    If he is not then he is needlessly antagonising a man doing his job and creating potential problems for himself down the road.

    I'm open to correction here, but I assume there is a much smaller and therefore more expensive pool of barristers/solicitors with the required competence in Irish to defend a case.


    electing to answer a guard in irish does not constitute antagonism by any legal definition in this country , its a legal right FFS , whether a guard gets his back up over such an approach is neither here nor there and should not be of concern to the gaeilgeor

    Not in a legal sense no.

    But in a real sense it will. And it will effect how you are dealt with by the law enforcement officer in question. I think it should go without saying that this should t be done.

    Not everything that is legal should be done at every possible opportunity.

    can you see the wisdom on not antagonising a Garda who has stopped and questioned you for whatever reason?
    It's not a question of what's right to do, or what should or shouldn't be done. At the end of the day the law is written in black and white.


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    #56
    battle_hardend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭battle_hardend


    Indricotherium wrote: »
    Not in a legal sense no.

    But in a real sense it will. And it will effect how you are dealt with by the law enforcement officer in question. I think it should go without saying that this should t be done.

    Not everything that is legal should be done at every possible opportunity.

    can you see the wisdom on not antagonising a Garda who has stopped and questioned you for whatever reason?

    you see , thats where you and i have a very different attitude to the authorities , you believe the guard should be ( effectivley ) appeased so as to avoid potential future reprecussions where as i see any such reaction as a major failing on the part of the guard , a professional guard would not hold it against a citizen - tax payer for speaking in irish , that is not an antagonostic act and anyone who views it as such has problems of thier own , to suggest the drive could be inviting future retaliation is outrageous , if the driver chose to speakin in german or french , that would be a different story

    unless of course they were from germany or france :)


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    #57
    Indricotherium
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Indricotherium


    _pure_mule_ wrote: »
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    battle_hardend wrote: »
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    While the op may not be a freman there is a ring of fremanism about his original question; can you deliberately delay a Garda by insisting to be dealt with in Irish?

    The answer to can you is yes.

    Should you, is a different question.

    IMO no you shouldn't. If the op is innocent as he claims, he will be deliberately prolonging his interaction with the Garda in question.

    If he is not then he is needlessly antagonising a man doing his job and creating potential problems for himself down the road.

    I'm open to correction here, but I assume there is a much smaller and therefore more expensive pool of barristers/solicitors with the required competence in Irish to defend a case.


    electing to answer a guard in irish does not constitute antagonism by any legal definition in this country , its a legal right FFS , whether a guard gets his back up over such an approach is neither here nor there and should not be of concern to the gaeilgeor

    Not in a legal sense no.

    But in a real sense it will. And it will effect how you are dealt with by the law enforcement officer in question. I think it should go without saying that this should t be done.

    Not everything that is legal should be done at every possible opportunity.

    can you see the wisdom on not antagonising a Garda who has stopped and questioned you for whatever reason?
    It's not a question of what's right to do, or what should or shouldn't be done. At the end of the day the law is written in black and white.

    But the world we live in is not.


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    #58
    battle_hardend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭battle_hardend


    Indricotherium wrote: »
    But the world we live in is not.

    when dealing with the guards , a judge , institutions of the state , you have to rigorously stick to the latter of the law , no such thing as subjectivity or philosophical arguements


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    #59
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    battle_hardend wrote: »
    when dealing with the guards , a judge , institutions of the state , you have to rigorously stick to the latter of the law , no such thing as subjectivity or philosophical arguements

    Balderdash!


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    #60
    battle_hardend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭battle_hardend


    Ricardo Lazy Wallboard wrote: »
    Balderdash!

    really , so if someone is up on a charge of not wearing a seat belt , they can be also charged with using irish when talking to a guard who only had the cupla focal ?


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    #61
    _pure_mule_
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭_pure_mule_


    Indricotherium wrote: »
    _pure_mule_ wrote: »
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    battle_hardend wrote: »
    Indricotherium wrote: »
    While the op may not be a freman there is a ring of fremanism about his original question; can you deliberately delay a Garda by insisting to be dealt with in Irish?

    The answer to can you is yes.

    Should you, is a different question.

    IMO no you shouldn't. If the op is innocent as he claims, he will be deliberately prolonging his interaction with the Garda in question.

    If he is not then he is needlessly antagonising a man doing his job and creating potential problems for himself down the road.

    I'm open to correction here, but I assume there is a much smaller and therefore more expensive pool of barristers/solicitors with the required competence in Irish to defend a case.


    electing to answer a guard in irish does not constitute antagonism by any legal definition in this country , its a legal right FFS , whether a guard gets his back up over such an approach is neither here nor there and should not be of concern to the gaeilgeor

    Not in a legal sense no.

    But in a real sense it will. And it will effect how you are dealt with by the law enforcement officer in question. I think it should go without saying that this should t be done.

    Not everything that is legal should be done at every possible opportunity.

    can you see the wisdom on not antagonising a Garda who has stopped and questioned you for whatever reason?
    It's not a question of what's right to do, or what should or shouldn't be done. At the end of the day the law is written in black and white.

    But the world we live in is not.
    Yes it is? Don't break the law and nothing can happen you, nothing legal anyway!


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