Getting stopped by the guards.

Tom Cruise

Just be nice to the garda and show respect then they will not have a reason to do anything to you.They provide a public service and we need them.

Although some are absolute power hungry pricks who put the boot in,most are good people

battle_hardend

tipp1986 wrote: »

If i was a member of the Gardai and the OP tried that on me i would for sure ensure that i went out of my way to find any issue with his car that may get him in trouble.

Gardai in general dont want the bother of looking for any small issue wrong with a person/car. I could not count how many times in my first few years driving i could have been prosecuted for speeding, no tax etc.... yet the gardai after chatting for a bit with you will just let you off. If you attack them with attitude you can be as sure as hell your getting done.

I was stopped last night in an english reg car with nothing on the windscreen. I just pulled up to the checkpoint and gave the gardai a nice hello and handed him my Papers from the Insurance company showing i can drive any car. He had a quick chat briefly metioned the english plates and sent me on my way.

If i had went with attitude i could have been looking at my car been taken off me.

im glad your not a member of AGS , seeing as your given to exacting petty revenge on people for percieved minor slights , id like to think our police force is above such small mindedness , they are serious professionals , not bullys who think they have licence to throw thier weight around

battle_hardend

seamus wrote: »

Yes, if you're doing it purely to be obstructive or obtuse about letting the Garda carry out his duty. If someone refuses to discuss a matter in their primary language (i.e. the one they typically use on a daily basis), then they are being deliberately obstructive and any future charges should reflect that.

its all about what you can proove , you would not get a charge of obstruction ( by way of chosing to speak irish :rolleyes: ) of this kind before a judge let alone be capable for proving intent , you are incorrect from a legal point of view in stating that chosing to communicate with a member of AGS in irish is an act of obstruction and are incorrect in presuming that such a descision would warrant future reprisals from AGS , even you struck a guard a box in the face , you are not in anway shape or form fair game for reprisals from a guard , you would rightfully do time behind bars but the guards cannot pursue a vendeta of any kind against you , this is AGS we are talking about , not tony sopranos new jersey crew

battle_hardend

Tom Cruise wrote: »

Just be nice to the garda and show respect then they will not have a reason to do anything to you.They provide a public service and we need them.

Although some are absolute power hungry pricks who put the boot in,most are good people

regarding the first paragraph , its not always that cut and dried

MagicSean

battle_hardend wrote: »

its all about what you can proove , you would not get a charge of obstruction ( by way of chosing to speak irish :rolleyes: ) of this kind before a judge let alone be capable for proving intent , you are incorrect from a legal point of view in stating that chosing to communicate with a member of AGS in irish is an act of obstruction and are incorrect in presuming that such a descision would warrant future reprisals from AGS , even you struck a guard a box in the face , you are not in anway shape or form fair game for reprisals from a guard , you would rightfully do time behind bars but the guards cannot pursue a vendeta of any kind against you , this is AGS we are talking about , not tony sopranos new jersey crew

Are you just ignoring what people have said. It's been said many times that it would not be illegal it would just make you a dick. And the Garda wouldn't be taking revenge, he just wouldn't be letting you off with anything.

battle_hardend

MagicSean wrote: »

Are you just ignoring what people have said. It's been said many times that it would not be illegal it would just make you a dick. And the Garda wouldn't be taking revenge, he just wouldn't be letting you off with anything.

im not , nor have not disputed that electing to speak in irish would be less easy for the guard than communicating in english but that in itself is not an offense , more than one poster has suggested that such a choice warrants irregular focus and treatment by AGS from that point on , if a person has a bald tyre or thier tax is out of date , i dont think the guard should let them off regardless of what language they choose to communicate in but the attitude of some on this thread is downright scary in how they think AGS should use thier powers

seamus

battle_hardend wrote: »

its all about what you can proove , you would not get a charge of obstruction ( by way of chosing to speak irish :rolleyes: ) of this kind before a judge let alone be capable for proving intent , you are incorrect from a legal point of view in stating that chosing to communicate with a member of AGS in irish is an act of obstruction and are incorrect in presuming that such a descision would warrant future reprisals from AGS ,

I'm not talking legally. You asked whether it deserves punishment. I answered yes. I didn't say that it legally will get you a punishment.

Departed

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0424/garda-commissioner-failed-irish-speakers-report.html

battle_hardend

seamus wrote: »

I'm not talking legally. You asked whether it deserves punishment. I answered yes. I didn't say that it legally will get you a punishment.

punishment by who ? , obviously you dont mean by AGS as they can only enforce the law and electing to speak to a guard in irish is a right , let alone not against the law

source

battle_hardend wrote: »

im not , nor have not disputed that electing to speak in irish would be less easy for the guard than communicating in english but that in itself is not an offense , more than one poster has suggested that such a choice warrants irregular focus and treatment by AGS from that point on , if a person has a bald tyre or thier tax is out of date , i dont think the guard should let them off regardless of what language they choose to communicate in but the attitude of some on this thread is downright scary in how they think AGS should use thier powers

You've heard of the 10 second attitude test right?

Basically if you're a dick during the first 10 seconds of interaction with the Garda, you'll walk away with a ticket/summons for the offence you've been pulled over for.

If you're polite, then chances are you'll get a warning and told to, say, in respect of tax, produce a valid tax disc to the member within 10 days or so, depending on the member. You're not getting off scott free, but you're not getting a fine and having to pay for the tax too.

No matter who you're dealing with, if you act like a dick prepare to have a bit of resistance from the person you're dealing with. If you're nice and polite, then you'll see a completely different response from the person involved.

From experience, 9 times out of 10 the person wishing to speak Irish is just trying to be a smartarse, and "get one over on the Gardai". The amount of people wishing to use Irish with Gardai legitimately are confined to the gealtacht areas, anyone outside that is usually just being obtuse and wouldn't use Irish in any of their other daily business.

Kosseegan

battle_hardend wrote: »

sorry , i dont share your attitude , thier is no rule of law which states its an offense to discomode a guard by electing to speak irish instead of english , in this context ( the one which matters most ) it is irrelevant as to whether such a manner is anti social , obnoxious or infuriating , many different people find many different things discomoding and irritating but when it comes to law enforcement , we cannot choose whats an offense and what isnt an offense based on personal subjective opinion

I never said it was an offence. It is a simple matter of personal interaction. In all aspects of your life you may need someone to oblige you. Whether it is getting a plumber to come and fix a leak for you or a barman to give you a drink after official closing time, attitude is everything. they will remember previous interaction.
last year I had two parking tickest. After I had a chat with the prosecuting guards both charges were struck out by the guard when the cases were called in court. It doesn't take a great brain to figure out that if the guards had been antagonised that wouldn't have happened.

battle_hardend

source wrote: »

You've heard of the 10 second attitude test right?

Basically if you're a dick during the first 10 seconds of interaction with the Garda, you'll walk away with a ticket/summons for the offence you've been pulled over for.

If you're polite, then chances are you'll get a warning and told to, say, in respect of tax, produce a valid tax disc to the member within 10 days or so, depending on the member. You're not getting off scott free, but you're not getting a fine and having to pay for the tax too.

No matter who you're dealing with, if you act like a dick prepare to have a bit of resistance from the person you're dealing with. If you're nice and polite, then you'll see a completely different response from the person involved.

From experience, 9 times out of 10 the person wishing to speak Irish is just trying to be a smartarse, and "get one over on the Gardai". The amount of people wishing to use Irish with Gardai legitimately are confined to the gealtacht areas, anyone outside that is usually just being obtuse and wouldn't use Irish in any of their other daily business.

what offical language a motorist communicates in should not determine whether or not they recieve a ticket for an offense like no drivers licence , no tax displayed etc , ive stated this more than once already , the two issues are mutually exclusive as far as im concerned , speaking irish to a guard is not against the law so if you have your driver licence on you , your motor tax affairs in order and your vechicle functioning properly , thier is no valid legal reason to be arrested for anything , any guard who chooses to put someone on thier enemy list for the faux crime of electing to speak in irish is not a professional IMO

battle_hardend

Kosseegan wrote: »

I never said it was an offence. It is a simple matter of personal interaction. In all aspects of your life you may need someone to oblige you. Whether it is getting a plumber to come and fix a leak for you or a barman to give you a drink after official closing time, attitude is everything. they will remember previous interaction.
last year I had two parking tickest. After I had a chat with the prosecuting guards both charges were struck out by the guard when the cases were called in court. It doesn't take a great brain to figure out that if the guards had been antagonised that wouldn't have happened.

going by the above criteria , convicted murderers can expect to be stitched up by guards for various trumped up charges once they get out of jail , its absurd

as long as your not technically breaking the law , its irrelevant whether or not a guard personally and subjectivley thinks you are being a pain , if that was how things operated in our justice system , the jails would be full of people who various guards took a dislike to , could be anything from having bad BO to him not liking mortorists with beards , thier is as much validity in the justice system ( which includes guards ) for placing a black mark agains someone who is bald as thier is someone who elects to communicate in irish when stopped at a checkpoint , if this is such an affront to AGS , let them take a constitutional case against the state to have it made illegal

ResearchWill

battle_hardend wrote: »

going by the above criteria , convicted murderers can expect to be stitched up by guards for various trumped up charges once they get out of jail , its absurd

as long as your not technically breaking the law , its irrelevant whether or not a guard personally and subjectivley thinks you are being a pain , if that was how things operated in our justice system , the jails would be full of people who various guards took a dislike to , could be anything from having bad BO to him not liking mortorists with beards , thier is as much validity in the justice system ( which includes guards ) for placing a black mark agains someone who is bald as thier is someone who elects to communicate in irish when stopped at a checkpoint , if this is such an affront to AGS , let them take a constitutional case against the state to have it made illegal

While you are of course correct, if a person does not break the law nothing can be done or should not be done to them, (well a certain family in Donegal may disagree, but in the end they had their rights vindicated.) but the main trust of some posters here is that if you want an easy life when you do break the law being nice cant hurt. My own view even if you have not broken the law the same rule applies being nice is just a better way to operate.

While it is of course everyones right to use Irish in any interaction with the state, I would not for one insist on that right. While my Irish is not great, I must admit I do like to see people use it, I have seen Irish used in Court and there are many members of AGS and the Judiciary, solicitors and barristers who are fluent, I remember during one high court call over the registrar called the list in english, got to a case where all parties named in Irish, he called that case in Irish the judge and all parties spoke Irish, then back to english for the rest of the list.

Indricotherium

battle_hardend wrote: »

Kosseegan wrote: »

I never said it was an offence. It is a simple matter of personal interaction. In all aspects of your life you may need someone to oblige you. Whether it is getting a plumber to come and fix a leak for you or a barman to give you a drink after official closing time, attitude is everything. they will remember previous interaction.
last year I had two parking tickest. After I had a chat with the prosecuting guards both charges were struck out by the guard when the cases were called in court. It doesn't take a great brain to figure out that if the guards had been antagonised that wouldn't have happened.

going by the above criteria , convicted murderers can expect to be stitched up by guards for various trumped up charges once they get out of jail , its absurd

as long as your not technically breaking the law , its irrelevant whether or not a guard personally and subjectivley thinks you are being a pain , if that was how things operated in our justice system , the jails would be full of people who various guards took a dislike to , could be anything from having bad BO to him not liking mortorists with beards , thier is as much validity in the justice system ( which includes guards ) for placing a black mark agains someone who is bald as thier is someone who elects to communicate in irish when stopped at a checkpoint , if this is such an affront to AGS , let them take a constitutional case against the state to have it made illegal

There is a difference between something being legal to do and being wise to do.

Nobody is arguing that addressing a Garda in any language is illegal.

The point being out forward is that it could prolong your interaction with the gardaí and may invite further scrutiny if it is perceived as being deliberately obstructive.

The same as someone seeming evasive or acting in some suspicious way will invite further scrutiny at a tax/insurance checkpoint.

There is no legal issue being debated here. It's just one of common sense and courtesy.

If you have absolutely nothing to hide and you are stopped by a member of ags, by all means delay yourself by insisting on being dealt with in Irish.

battle_hardend

ResearchWill wrote: »

While you are of course correct, if a person does not break the law nothing can be done or should not be done to them, (well a certain family in Donegal may disagree, but in the end they had their rights vindicated.) but the main trust of some posters here is that if you want an easy life when you do break the law being nice cant hurt. My own view even if you have not broken the law the same rule applies being nice is just a better way to operate.



While it is of course everyones right to use Irish in any interaction with the state, I would not for one insist on that right. While my Irish is not great, I must admit I do

like to see people use it, I have seen Irish used in Court and there are many


members of AGS and the Judiciary, solicitors and barristers who are fluent, I
remember during one high court call over the registrar called the list in english, got to

a case where all parties named in Irish, he called that case in Irish the judge and all
parties spoke Irish, then back to english for the rest of the list.

some nuanced points there but some posters here have quite explicitly stated that
choosing to speak in Irish is inviting trouble from AGS , some have went so far as to
imply the guard might go outside the law to teach the gaielgoir a lesson

seamus

battle_hardend wrote: »

some nuanced points there but some posters here have quite explicitly stated that
choosing to speak in Irish is inviting trouble from AGS , some have went so far as to
imply the guard might go outside the law to teach the gaielgoir a lesson

Gardai are human. I don't think it requires any leap in logic or moral outrage to realise that if you act like a dick towards someone, then you will get a colder and shorter response than if you treat them with respect and friendliness.

Nobody as far as I can see has suggested that the Gardai should or would break the law and "punish" the person.

There is also a certain amount of logic in that someone who goes out of their way to waste Garda time and show them disrespect, is also someone who is less likely to show respect for the law, and so requires a firmer hand than someone who shows that they have a bit of respect.

If you go into court and spend the entire time trying to frustrate the proceedings and waste the court's time, the judge will deal with you more sternly than if you go in cap in hand. Exact same principle.

Zambia

battle_hardend wrote: »

not sure i follow

While your holding up the Garda trying to be clever he is not free for other tasks like burglary.

Kosseegan

battle_hardend wrote: »

going by the above criteria , convicted murderers can expect to be stitched up by guards for various trumped up charges once they get out of jail , its absurd

as long as your not technically breaking the law , its irrelevant whether or not a guard personally and subjectivley thinks you are being a pain , if that was how things operated in our justice system , the jails would be full of people who various guards took a dislike to , could be anything from having bad BO to him not liking mortorists with beards , thier is as much validity in the justice system ( which includes guards ) for placing a black mark agains someone who is bald as thier is someone who elects to communicate in irish when stopped at a checkpoint , if this is such an affront to AGS , let them take a constitutional case against the state to have it made illegal

The jails are full to bursting point. Do you think the guards like the people who are in jail?
Even if you are not technically breaking the law, you can be accused of breaking it. You can be made to break it.

MagicSean

battle_hardend wrote: »

some nuanced points there but some posters here have quite explicitly stated that
choosing to speak in Irish is inviting trouble from AGS , some have went so far as to
imply the guard might go outside the law to teach the gaielgoir a lesson

Please quote one post were someone has said they would go outside the law to teach a gaelgoir a lessong.

In actual fact people have specifically said they are not referring to irish speakers but to people who pretend they cant speak english. They have also said that Gardaí would not make stuff up but would be less likely to let thing slide if you deliberately try to obstruct them.

You must be a troll because nobody else could miss the point of nearly every post in the thread.

Kosseegan

Looks like the Gaeltacht allowance is being given away too freely.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0424/garda-commissioner-failed-irish-speakers-report.html

battle_hardend

MagicSean wrote: »

Please quote one post were someone has said they would go outside the law to teach a gaelgoir a lessong.

In actual fact people have specifically said they are not referring to irish speakers but to people who pretend they cant speak english. They have also said that Gardaí would not make stuff up but would be less likely to let thing slide if you deliberately try to obstruct them.

You must be a troll because nobody else could miss the point of nearly every post in the thread.

post 91 implies it , post 98 implies it even further

TylerIE

LostCovey wrote: »

Tuigim.

Fear beag, gluaisteáin beag, caipín baseball ar a ceann, agus píopa mór ag teach as thóin a ghluaisteáin, agus torann mór ag teacht as ineall beag, is gan níos mó ná piúnta unleaded san tainc.

Nach iontach go bhfuil leagan gaéilge den boy racer seo ar fáil.

Tá file iontach ar an mbord seo!

Cognitive Cascade

What is the purpose of this thread op? People should stop wasting the time of the Gardai with their stupid, immature unneccessarily provocative behaviour, our law enforcement have better things to do than to amuse children or teenagers who think they are too big for their boots.

couch_dweller

Cognitive Cascade wrote: »

What is the purpose of this thread op? People should stop wasting the time of the Gardai with their stupid, immature unneccessarily provocative behaviour, our law enforcement have better things to do than to amuse children or teenagers who think they are too big for their boots.

you,d think that but no , guards love an easy challenge

DonQuay1

MagicSean wrote: »

......................
Secondly, you are wrong in that you say we are all equal. Gardaí are vested with powers that you don't have such as powers of arrest and search. They are also granted a power of discretion, a power they will likely not use with someone filming them. .................... You can go on about your rights til the birds come home, but rights carry with them responsabilities and consequences too and you must be prepared to accept these.

Yeah.
Let's talk rights, responsibilities and equality - Garda wise.

Rights:
Not allowed to strike. They did. Broke Constitutional law - Blue Flu.
Way to show an example!

Responsibilities.
May day 'riots'? RoboCop!?!! 30 /40 Garda in court saying they saw none of their fellow Gardai do 'nuthin'!! Or no- one was even there! (Rioters rioted amonst themselves!). No Gardai was seen with or without proper ID on. No Garda could identify anyone else. The Judge said 'disgraceful'!
Way to show an example!

Equality:
If an ordinary punter conspired to break laws like that, they'd be fed their equality over a pretty long time in the Klink with resulting reverberations for employment prospects, social stigma and criminal record. But not the Guards!!
Yep - a definite example.

wexcap

Those days are well and truly gones if a guard pulls you over you are guaranteed a ticket in the post as they need to get so many out a month now

C3PO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122002000#Comment_122002000

Yes, well gone I’d say …. given that you replied to a 12 year old post!!

Killinator

Juat going to.a different point of the OPs post regarding filming Gardaí on a mobile.

Nothing wrong with that at all.....unless you are the driver, that's a damn good way of opening yourself up to a free fixed charge notice and points on your licence!

The offence is holding a mobile phone while driving and according to the principal act (RTA 1961) “driving” includes managing and controlling.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/78308692#Comment_78308692

Depends on the member of AGS, if they happend to be fluent in the language, they might actually like the opportunity for a "Cúpla Focail" on duty, but if it transpire that one does not actually have an Irish, then it will might not go well.