Getting stopped by the guards.

_pure_mule_

(1)Does anyone here know can you video the guards( with your mobile phone) when stopped in you car? I know in America you can but does anyone know if it is legal to do so in Ireland? (2)Also, what would happen if you spoke to a guard in Irish( as it is your right to do so) and they could not understand you? Would or could you be detained, even if you had not broken any laws. (3) Can a guard just make up something and arrest you on reasonable suspiscion? After all how can it be proven in a court of law that they did not have reasonable suspiscion? Thanks in advance guys:)

MagicSean

1. It depends. Usually there is no problem but your phone can be seized if it is evidence of a crime. It will most likely piss the Garda off if you stick a camera in his face so be prepared to deal with the consequences.

2.Most Gardaí will know how to arrest someone in Irish. Once you get to the station an Irish speaker will deal with you.

3. The reasonable suspicion could be challenged in court were the Garda would have to outline it.

nuac

Lookit, I have many years working in the District Courts.

Most Gardaí are just trying to get thru their shift.

Don't try to be smart - real lawyers they respect but hob-lawyers piss them off

_pure_mule_

MagicSean wrote: »

1. It depends. Usually there is no problem but your phone can be seized if it is evidence of a crime. It will most likely piss the Garda off if you stick a camera in his face so be prepared to deal with the consequences.

2.Most Gardaí will know how to arrest someone in Irish. Once you get to the station an Irish speaker will deal with you.

3. The reasonable suspicion could be challenged in court were the Garda would have to outline it.

thanks for your response. But surely you cant be arrested for exercising a right just because the guard is unable to deal with it? Its not an offence speak Irish so how could you be arrested?

MagicSean

I'm gonna guess that this was someone who was stopped for a minor traffic offence and ended up in a cell as a result of thinking they could get off a fine with some derivative of freeman bull****.

i take it your details were demanded and you refused to supply them unless they were demanded in Irish?

_pure_mule_

MagicSean wrote: »

I'm gonna guess that this was someone who was stopped for a minor traffic offence and ended up in a cell as a result of thinking they could get off a fine with some derivative of freeman bull****.

i take it your details were demanded and you refused to supply them unless they were demanded in Irish?

No thats not it at all, Im just curious as to know. I'm not going to try and piss any guards off but I do think it would be quite humerous to speak to a guard in Irish. Anyway its not against the law to piss a guard off is it?

Indricotherium

MagicSean wrote: »

I'm gonna guess that this was someone who was stopped for a minor traffic offence and ended up in a cell as a result of thinking they could get off a fine with some derivative of freeman bull****.

i take it your details were demanded and you refused to supply them unless they were demanded in Irish?

Did the Garda produce his oath?

_pure_mule_

Indricotherium wrote: »

Did the Garda produce his oath?

this didnt happen. It was only an assumption made by the person above me. I was just curious to know the answers to the above questions in the event of a future encounter with the gardai.

tfitzgerald

It's nit against the law to piss a Garda off . But it would be fair foolish

MagicSean

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

No thats not it at all, Im just curious as to know. I'm not going to try and piss any guards off but I do think it would be quite humerous to speak to a guard in Irish. Anyway its not against the law to piss a guard off is it?

No it's not against the law to piss one off but it will often end badly. Gardaí have what's called a power of discretion. This means they can let the small things slide. You will find that their willingness to use this power evaporates in direct proportion to their level of annoyance.

cursai

Indricotherium wrote: »

Did the Garda produce his oath?

What????

CharlieCroker

1. You are allowed to video a guard with your mobile phone but if you're the driver then you're also liable to be prosecuted for holding the phone while in control of a vehicle.

2. A Garda is entitled ( under S.109, Road Traffic Act) to stop a vehicle, and demand that vehicle remain stopped, until such time that he is finished in his duties. (this is generally agreed to be 1 hour)

3. A garda isn't going to arrest you because he can't deal with you in Irish but if you're acting the maggot and being obstructive, then it's a different issue.

Procrastastudy

Pure Mule you are the MAN! Dont bow down! Get into court make sure you have a solicitor, JC, SC and fight it man! Make sure you are heard in Irish. The legal profession needs people like you to keep it going. Fight on man. Just be sure to sell your house and car before you start so you can pay the nice cousel.

Hopefully someone will be having the sh*t kicked out of them somewhere while you mess about annoying the guy who is just trying to do his job. Much better he's arresting you than delaing with serious assults, rapes etc.

nuac

and btw check that the Garda is wearing his/her own hat. Sometimes in leaving the patrol car they get their hats mixed up. That would fatally affect the validity of any evidence gathered. Make sure all the Gardai present fit on their hats to make sure the garda dealing with you has the correct one.

BornToKill

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

what would happen if you spoke to a guard in Irish( as it is your right to do so) and they could not understand you?

Is it that they couldn't understand you or couldn't stand under you?

Indricotherium

BornToKill wrote: »

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

what would happen if you spoke to a guard in Irish( as it is your right to do so) and they could not understand you?

Is it that they couldn't understand you or couldn't stand under you?

Make sure he speaks IRISH and not Irish as well.

_pure_mule_

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Pure Mule you are the MAN! Dont bow down! Get into court make sure you have a solicitor, JC, SC and fight it man! Make sure you are heard in Irish. The legal profession needs people like you to keep it going. Fight on man. Just be sure to sell your house and car before you start so you can pay the nice cousel.

Hopefully someone will be having the sh*t kicked out of them somewhere while you mess about annoying the guy who is just trying to do his job. Much better he's arresting you than delaing with serious assults, rapes etc.

I will again point out that I'm not trying to annoy any garda as I have outlined already. I am just curious as I have already stated. I am interested to see what actually would happen? But thanks for your input all the same. Much appreciated!

_pure_mule_

tfitzgerald wrote: »

It's nit against the law to piss a Garda off . But it would be fair foolish

Agreed.

cursai

'You'll be receiving a bill for this' said Mr Sludds as he left Wexford courthouse for a holiday in custody.

Procrastastudy

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

this didnt happen. It was only an assumption made by the person above me. I was just curious to know the answers to the above questions in the event of a future encounter with the gardai.

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

I will again point out that I'm not trying to annoy any garda as I have outlined already. I am just curious as I have already stated. I am interested to see what actually would happen? But thanks for your input all the same. Much appreciated!

I think you can see my confusion. Might I suggest that if you get pulled by the Gardai they probably have a reason for doing it and you should ensure that time is not wasted on either side. You are of course entitled to speak Irish to the Garda as it is the First offcial language of the state. May I suggest that if the Garda does not speak Irish very well and you have a firm grasp of the second official language; you use it.

Personally I can see no reason why a garda would have any issue with you filming him as he goes about his job. Might think you're a but of a wierdo... If I was the garda in question I would make sure I did everything by the book and gave you every ticket you needed rather than exercising any discresion though.

Also you might want to rethink your driving if you are being frequently pulled over - I'm not suggesting you are. I have yet to be pulled over and I am a terrible driver - I just don't act like a muppet.

source

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

(1)Does anyone here know can you video the guards( with your mobile phone) when stopped in you car? I know in America you can but does anyone know if it is legal to do so in Ireland?

You can film anyone or anything in a public place, just don't piss the Garda off while doing so.

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

(2)Also, what would happen if you spoke to a guard in Irish( as it is your right to do so) and they could not understand you? Would or could you be detained, even if you had not broken any laws.

You can insist on talking Irish to the Garda if you wish, but if the Garda cannot speak Irish well, expect him to hold you until he can get an Irish speaking Garda to deal with you. Also be sure you have a sufficient level of Irish to deal with the types of legal matters the Gardai will be dealing with. Otherwise you could find yourself getting very lost, very fast.

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

(3) Can a guard just make up something and arrest you on reasonable suspiscion? After all how can it be proven in a court of law that they did not have reasonable suspiscion? Thanks in advance guys:)

A Garda will not just stop you for no reason, so chances are, if they've stopped you then you've already done something worthy of their attention, and they will know whether there is a power of arrest for the offence or not.

_pure_mule_

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

I think you can see my confusion. Might I suggest that if you get pulled by the Gardai they probably have a reason for doing it and you should ensure that time is not wasted on either side. You are of course entitled to speak Irish to the Garda as it is the First offcial language of the state. May I suggest that if the Garda does not speak Irish very well and you have a firm grasp of the second official language; you use it.

Personally I can see no reason why a garda would have any issue with you filming him as he goes about his job. Might think you're a but of a wierdo... If I was the garda in question I would make sure I did everything by the book and gave you every ticket you needed rather than exercising any discresion though.

Also you might want to rethink your driving if you are being frequently pulled over - I'm not suggesting you are. I have yet to be pulled over and I am a terrible driver - I just don't act like a muppet.

Firstly, no I don't see where your confusion is coming from. As a law student I didn't think you would get confused so easily. Yes I did say that I would like to know the answers to these questions in the event of a future encounter with the guards, that does not necessarily mean that I am going to try and piss off a garda while he is simply trying to do his job. It means I am trying to educate myself so I know my rights and I know the law. Why would you suggest I speak in the second official language of my country just because the guard is so uneducated to speak in a language he is supposed to be able to speak? That's his problem not mine!

Secondly, you talk about the garda doing everything by the book just because he is being filmed? Is that not what he should be doing anyway, after all if your not going by the book your making it up, aren't you? Might I add, why would I care if the guard thinks I am a weirdo? I know people whose rights have been abused by gardai who felt superior. We are all equal and no being is superior until an offence has been committed. Am I right? Correct me if not. Therefore I feel it is an excellent idea to film gardai for both my protection and theirs.

Thirdly, You sound like you would make a great road safety officer. Thanks for the advice on my driving but I'm pretty sure my driving is law abiding and I have yet to have any driving offences.

Procrastastudy

You strike me as the kind of person who will suceed in this without trying. Good on you!

Thank you ref the road safety officer. Given the number of people killed on the roads by idiots I personaly applaud the efforts of the gardai.

_pure_mule_

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

You strike me as the kind of person who will suceed in this without trying. Good on you!

Thank you ref the road safety officer. Given the number of people killed on the roads by idiots I personaly applaud the efforts of the gardai.

Why thanks you very much! And I too applaud the gardai.

Procrastastudy

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

Why would you suggest I speak in the second official language of my country just because the guard is so uneducated to speak in a language he is supposed to be able to speak? That's his problem not mine!

Dealing with this in isolation as it's a fairly interesting point.

Why is a garda supposed to speak Irish? In even the 1937 Constitution the framers put in that English was an official langauge. Move this up to the current day many people who are not Irish serve in the AGS. Are you suggesting that all these people should be excluded because they don't speak Irish?

If someone only speaks Irish then of course provisions should be made. Speaking Irish when the garda doesn't and refusing to speak English is just being obstructive. If you feel that strongly about it you should look at geting the policy of AGS changed or perhaps putting forward a constitutional amendment.

EDIT: Incidently people doing this and then tripping over their Irish once it gets complicated - have they committed any type of offence such as obstruction? If not in Irish, if I sit there saying parlez-vous francais when its clear from even those three words I have no french is there an offence?

CharlieCroker

Foreign born members of AGS are required to study Irish in the Garda College.

It happens me at least once a week (especially on nights) where some moron with 3 sentences of Irish tries to be a smartass with me. They shutup quicksmart when they realise that I'll stay there all night speaking Irish to them.

MagicSean

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

Firstly, no I don't see where your confusion is coming from. As a law student I didn't think you would get confused so easily. Yes I did say that I would like to know the answers to these questions in the event of a future encounter with the guards, that does not necessarily mean that I am going to try and piss off a garda while he is simply trying to do his job. It means I am trying to educate myself so I know my rights and I know the law. Why would you suggest I speak in the second official language of my country just because the guard is so uneducated to speak in a language he is supposed to be able to speak? That's his problem not mine!

Secondly, you talk about the garda doing everything by the book just because he is being filmed? Is that not what he should be doing anyway, after all if your not going by the book your making it up, aren't you? Might I add, why would I care if the guard thinks I am a weirdo? I know people whose rights have been abused by gardai who felt superior. We are all equal and no being is superior until an offence has been committed. Am I right? Correct me if not. Therefore I feel it is an excellent idea to film gardai for both my protection and theirs.

Thirdly, You sound like you would make a great road safety officer. Thanks for the advice on my driving but I'm pretty sure my driving is law abiding and I have yet to have any driving offences.

If i might address some points. A Garda not knowing Irish does not make them uneducated. Gardaí are recruited from different nationalities and only those educated in Ireland would have been educated in Irish.

Secondly, you are wrong in that you say we are all equal. Gardaí are vested with powers that you don't have such as powers of arrest and search. They are also granted a power of discretion, a power they will likely not use with someone filming them. Like it or not most people consider being filmed as an unnecessary invasion of their privacy and will not want to do you any favours. The poster didn't mean "by the book" in the everything correct way he meant it in the way that they wouldn't let you off with anything.

You can go on about your rights til the birds come home, but rights carry with them responsabilities and consequences too and you must be prepared to accept these.

MagicSean

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

EDIT: Incidently people doing this and then tripping over their Irish once it gets complicated - have they committed any type of offence such as obstruction? If not in Irish, if I sit there saying parlez-vous francais when its clear from even those three words I have no french is there an offence?

No offence for only having a few words of irish but you'll use up any goodwill you had for being a smartass. No offence for speaking french if you don't understand English or Irish. Otherwise it's a fail/refusal.

ieoinu

Sure you can record your interaction with a Garda and be dealt with through Irish, French, Somali etc. whatever language you speak. If the Garda is so 'uneducated' that s/he doesn't feel competent to fully deal with you through Irish, I can guarantee there'll be a colleague can deftly complete tickets trí gaeilge. In relation to arresting you 'on suspicion' on suspicion of what exactly? If you're totally law abiding you've nowt to worry about have you....

@OP I'm sensing that you are looking for some sort of personal validation by inquiring about the reprocussions about acting in a lawful but somewhat antagonistic manner when interacting with a person of authority.

Your questions and subsequent remarks/replies suggest it is something you have fantasized 'put a lot of thought into' we'll say. The tone of certain comments would suggest that you have a somewhat confrontational personality. The fact that you seem most enthusiastic about speaking our native tongue, yet use English here to pose your question. Is it that you fear you may not receive an adequate response, as not that many people will be fluent in Irish? Are they (fellow Board Users, the people who's opinion you seek) deemed by you to be 'uneducated' too?

My advice to you would be; grow a pair, go out, get in your car and try it! What have you got to lose? Maybe a few quid, what have you got to gain, maybe a few points! (You will find that even though the Garda may not be a fluent Irish speaker, s/he will know a shed load more about law, RTA offences etc than you do, so be mindful of that)

We here in Ireland are lucky that our police force have retained a power of discretion, sure they're not perfect and polished but they do a good job and are invariably fair. I have a feeling that you may miss out on benefiting of that grace if you transgress some minor law of the land and dealt with by a Garda.

Failing that! I, that is if I, were you, would be a bit more introspective and I'd ask myself why?, Why exactly would I want to stick a video camera in somebody's face when they are dealing with me through their course of work? Would I do it in a shop/pub? Would I like it done to me, when I do my job? Do I really need to use Irish, is it so important to me, that I'll invariably end up delaying myself and possibly others. ( I'll re-iterate my point, you're not using it here) And what would I have to fear about being arrested for? Last I heard being an a$$.... wasn't illegal.

Bon chance!

Milk & Honey

I have been stopped by the guards several times over the last few years. Sometimes I have not been doing anything wrong, sometimes I have. I have always been let off. I have a friend who has been stopped several times over the last few years. Sometimes he has been doing something wrong, sometimes not. He has frequently been arrested or summonsed and almost never let go. The reason is that he starts challenging the guard with "why are you stopping ME?".

Zambia

What is the piont of this ? What possible purpose could it serve?

Indricotherium

Zambia wrote: »

What is the piont of this ? What possible purpose could it serve?

I think the op expected this thread to be a Garda bashing love in and has now gone on the defensive as its turned out differently.

I suspect he gets stopped by Garda traffic units quite often.

I think it's safe enough to assume this is because of the car he drives. I'm going to go out on a limb and say late ninties Honda civic. Loads of go faster bits stuck on it.

Sin cad is doigh liom ar aon nós

Zambia

I was thinking it was an effort to somehow get out of a infringement by having a defence of I did not know what the garda was talking about.

Jesus Shaves

Milk & Honey wrote: »

The reason is that he starts challenging the guard with "why are you stopping ME?".

He has every right to ask why they are stopping him
I've been searched twice for no reason at all, The first time i let them search me, the second time i said no because they had no valid grounds, they knew this and left me alone.
There are some power tripping guards out there who do this constantly, it gives a bad name to the decent ones.

Indricotherium

darokane wrote: »

Milk & Honey wrote: »

The reason is that he starts challenging the guard with "why are you stopping ME?".

He has every right to ask why they are stopping him
I've been searched twice for no reason at all, The first time i let them search me, the second time i said no because they had no valid grounds, they knew this and left me alone.
There are some power tripping guards out there who do this constantly, it gives a bad name to the decent ones.

He has that right.

However the op seems to be looking for a way to deliberately delay and obstruct gardaí going about their job.

I speak reasonable Irish, but I am totally fluent in English.

I think I'd prefer to interact with the law in English.

I wonder if the op was calling an ambulance or a fire brigade, applying for social welfare or a medical card, would he be so quick to insist an organ of the state deal with him I'm his native tongue.

nuac

Forgot to mention that you should check that the paper in the Garda's notebook carries an Irish made watermark.

Cant trace the authority for this at the mom, but it used to be a big issue in the GAA, and many Gardaí are in the GAA. I am sure they would appreciate you asking

beetlefan

GCDLawstudent wrote: »

Dealing with this in isolation as it's a fairly interesting point.

Why is a garda supposed to speak Irish? In even the 1937 Constitution the framers put in that English was an official langauge. Move this up to the current day many people who are not Irish serve in the AGS. Are you suggesting that all these people should be excluded because they don't speak Irish?

If someone only speaks Irish then of course provisions should be made. Speaking Irish when the garda doesn't and refusing to speak English is just being obstructive. If you feel that strongly about it you should look at geting the policy of AGS changed or perhaps putting forward a constitutional amendment.

EDIT: Incidently people doing this and then tripping over their Irish once it gets complicated - have they committed any type of offence such as obstruction? If not in Irish, if I sit there saying parlez-vous francais when its clear from even those three words I have no french is there an offence?

Why should the garda have to speak irish when english is the most used language in Ireland. Surely the garda has a right to speak english only if he chooses, just like the other person has the right to speak irish. I wish that in the forthcoming referendum, one more question could be put to the people i.e should irish be removed from the life support that it currently enjoys from the state. If irish cant survive without a special position, grants, extra marks in exams etc, then it should be unplugged from the life support and let die with dignity.

Grolschevik

Indricotherium wrote: »

Did the Garda produce his oath?

nuac wrote: »

and btw check that the Garda is wearing his/her own hat. Sometimes in leaving the patrol car they get their hats mixed up. That would fatally affect the validity of any evidence gathered. Make sure all the Gardai present fit on their hats to make sure the garda dealing with you has the correct one.

BornToKill wrote: »

Is it that they couldn't understand you or couldn't stand under you?

Indricotherium wrote: »

Make sure he speaks IRISH and not Irish as well.

nuac wrote: »

Forgot to mention that you should check that the paper in the Garda's notepaper carries an Irish made watermark.

Cant trace the authority for this at the mom, but it used to be a big issue in the GAA, and many Gardaí are in the GAA. I am sure they would appreciate you asking

While people who frequent this forum know these are jokes, many people just don't get sarcasm and/or are gullible and/or take what's written on this forum as truth. It worries me a bit to think that someone, somewhere, might walk away from this thread believing any of this.

Perhaps we should not jokingly offer Freeman-type "advice". Also, I don't think the OP was out to try Freeman-like stuff, and maybe we shouldn't have automatically jumped to the conclusion that he was...

McCrack

Can anybody say from their own experience or knowledge what happens in a situation where a drunk driver for example is fluent and pulls up to a MAT checkpoint and just point blank refuses to engage with the Garda unless he/she speaks in Irish to him/her?

I would imagine it would be risky to arrest for failing to provide a breath specimen there and then unless requested in Irish?

I would say there is no getting around an inability to speak to the person in Irish if they insist on conversing through Irish?

If the person is obviously intoxicated and arrested which is legitimate but what happens when being processed at the station? Typically would there be a member fluent enough within easy reach to be called to process the arrested person? At what about the MIC reading the rights and the Garda operating the intoxilizer? or can one fluent Garda step in and do all three?

source

McCrack wrote: »

Can anybody say from their own experience or knowledge what happens in a situation where a drunk driver for example is fluent and pulls up to a MAT checkpoint and just point blank refuses to engage with the Garda unless he/she speaks in Irish to him/her?

I would imagine it would be risky to arrest for failing to provide a breath specimen there and then unless requested in Irish?

I would say there is no getting around an inability to speak to the person in Irish if they insist on conversing through Irish?

If the person is obviously intoxicated and arrested which is legitimate but what happens when being processed at the station? Typically would there be a member fluent enough within easy reach to be called to process the arrested person? At what about the MIC reading the rights and the Garda operating the intoxilizer? or can one fluent Garda step in and do all three?

Anyone not fluent in English gets a copy of the notice of rights in their own language, they can then read the notice in their own language while the member in charge reads out the English version.

ieoinu

McCrack wrote: »

Can anybody say from their own experience or knowledge what happens in a situation where a drunk driver for example is fluent and pulls up to a MAT checkpoint and just point blank refuses to engage with the Garda unless he/she speaks in Irish to him/her?

I would imagine it would be risky to arrest for failing to provide a breath specimen there and then unless requested in Irish?

I would say there is no getting around an inability to speak to the person in Irish if they insist on conversing through Irish?

If the person is obviously intoxicated and arrested which is legitimate but what happens when being processed at the station? Typically would there be a member fluent enough within easy reach to be called to process the arrested person? At what about the MIC reading the rights and the Garda operating the intoxilizer? or can one fluent Garda step in and do all three?

One of the main parts of the Irish training in Templemore is dealing with drunk drivers through Irish (as that is when you come across educated idiots breaking teh law and trying to outsmart the system with pisógs). I have used it, not at a MAT but in the course of dealing with a DD. After realising that I'd not problem processing him as gaeilge he recanted and asked to be dealt with in English. I'm no gaeilgóir either, plenty of my colleagues are though.
There would be no issue with obtaining a translator to process and deal with the DD if none of the Gardaí had a word of Irish as is done with every other language difference. The Constitutional provision of Irish doesn't mean that the exact Garda/other Government agent/body has to they-themselves converse with you directly through Irish. It is an entitlement that can be provided via an interpreter.

I saw a case where the whole lot was dealt with through Irish even the court case was, and the Gardaí prosecuting's level of Irish wiped the floor with that of the accused. Be careful what you wish for as they say...

McCrack

I appreciate that but as you know there are many proofs to be satisfied with DD. One of them is that the accused was told in ordinary language the reason for his arrest. Also how can a failure to provide a breath sample at a MAT checkpoint be preferred if the accused insisted on Irish being used?

Now at the side of the road would you just wait (I believe up to an hour is permitted) until a fluent Garda attends or a translator? or would you just arrest the person anyway and deal with it at the station?

This can go I suppose to any person non-national not just a person wanting to speak through Irish.

The reason I am using DD as an example is because obviously time is of the essence in processing these offences and delays because of language issues can make or break bringing a prosecution or not.

battle_hardend

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

thanks for your response. But surely you cant be arrested for exercising a right just because the guard is unable to deal with it? Its not an offence speak Irish so how could you be arrested?

it depends how much hassle you are willing to tollerate , no judge will punish you for answering a guard in irish as that is your right , its irrelevant whether its awkward for the guard , thier is no reason and certainly no obligation to make an effort to make life easier for the guards in the eyes of the law , you really have to ask yourself whether annoying the guard is something you are prepared to put up with , guards can arrest you on any number of spurious allegations and often do , you might spend a few hours in a cell , you might get roughed around a bit in the interview room ( metaphorically speaking ) but its unlikely any charges will be brought and even they are , the judge will toss them , guards have a degree of licence to bully people and do , as long as you know the rules of the game , you have little to fear

Kosseegan

McCrack wrote: »

I appreciate that but as you know there are many proofs to be satisfied with DD. One of them is that the accused was told in ordinary language the reason for his arrest. Also how can a failure to provide a breath sample at a MAT checkpoint be preferred if the accused insisted on Irish being used?

Now at the side of the road would you just wait (I believe up to an hour is permitted) until a fluent Garda attends or a translator? or would you just arrest the person anyway and deal with it at the station?

This can go I suppose to any person non-national not just a person wanting to speak through Irish.

The reason I am using DD as an example is because obviously time is of the essence in processing these offences and delays because of language issues can make or break bringing a prosecution or not.

It would be the same as an person who does not speak English. Many foreign nationals with little or no English are arrested on suspicion of Dd. The guard will inform the person in English that he is arresting them under whatever section and also ibn ordinary languauge that he is arresting them for whatever. When the person gets to a station an interpreter can be sourced. It doesn't have to be another guard.
Someone trying to allege an unlawful arrest would have a mountain to climb.
1. They would have to show they couldn't understand English and didn't know the reason for their arrest.
2. They would ahve to show that some other right was infringed when they were processed at the station.
They would have to show that as a result some evidence against them was unconstitutionally obtained or that they couldn't get a fair trial.

Good luck with that.

Kosseegan

darokane wrote: »

He has every right to ask why they are stopping him
I've been searched twice for no reason at all, The first time i let them search me, the second time i said no because they had no valid grounds, they knew this and left me alone.
There are some power tripping guards out there who do this constantly, it gives a bad name to the decent ones.

There is a difference between stopping and searching. Stopping is reasonably routine and can be for the purpose of giving a warning. Light bulb missing, check tax, check tyres etc. It is stupid getting on one's dignity about it.
The end result is often a decision to teach the motorist a lesson. Demand licence and insurance be produced. Not find a record of the production and request a summons. Put the idiot driver to the trouble of going to court to show his documents and insist he did produce them. It is invariably impossible to prove that it was deliberate.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

battle_hardend

Aquila wrote: »

I know some of ye think the Gardai are horrible to deal with,however try dealing with certain members of the police force in Ukraine..there is no comparison,I found the Gardai always helpful and highly professional in my dealings with them.

thats been your experience and im happy for you but dont assume its a perfect reflection

i would be slow to compare with police forces in less developed countries

_pure_mule_

Grolschevik wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

Did the Garda produce his oath?

nuac wrote: »

and btw check that the Garda is wearing his/her own hat. Sometimes in leaving the patrol car they get their hats mixed up. That would fatally affect the validity of any evidence gathered. Make sure all the Gardai present fit on their hats to make sure the garda dealing with you has the correct one.

BornToKill wrote: »

Is it that they couldn't understand you or couldn't stand under you?

Indricotherium wrote: »

Make sure he speaks IRISH and not Irish as well.

nuac wrote: »

Forgot to mention that you should check that the paper in the Garda's notepaper carries an Irish made watermark.

Cant trace the authority for this at the mom, but it used to be a big issue in the GAA, and many Gardaí are in the GAA. I am sure they would appreciate you asking

While people who frequent this forum know these are jokes, many people just don't get sarcasm and/or are gullible and/or take what's written on this forum as truth. It worries me a bit to think that someone, somewhere, might walk away from this thread believing any of this.

Perhaps we should not jokingly offer Freeman-type "advice". Also, I don't think the OP was out to try Freeman-like stuff, and maybe we shouldn't have automatically jumped to the conclusion that he was...

Finally someone who thinks rationally about things, and dosent jump to conclusion on what sort of personality I have, what car I drive, what language I speak?! What relevance has any of that got to do with the questions posed? It amuses me that you cannot ask a question on here without someone getting all sarcastic or defensive. Chill people!!!!

_pure_mule_

Indricotherium wrote: »

Zambia wrote: »

What is the piont of this ? What possible purpose could it serve?

I think the op expected this thread to be a Garda bashing love in and has now gone on the defensive as its turned out differently.

I suspect he gets stopped by Garda traffic units quite often.

I think it's safe enough to assume this is because of the car he drives. I'm going to go out on a limb and say late ninties Honda civic. Loads of go faster bits stuck on it.

Sin cad is doigh liom ar aon nós

You got it spot on;) Your a clever one!

Procrastastudy

OP I know from personal experiance people on this board treat you in line with your tone and subject matter. While I realise this post will illicit another smart remark from you, which is fine I'm pretty cheeky in my responces, you may want to evaluate how you put yourself across if you don't want people to jump to conclusions.

Indricotherium

_pure_mule_ wrote: »

Grolschevik wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

Did the Garda produce his oath?

nuac wrote: »

and btw check that the Garda is wearing his/her own hat. Sometimes in leaving the patrol car they get their hats mixed up. That would fatally affect the validity of any evidence gathered. Make sure all the Gardai present fit on their hats to make sure the garda dealing with you has the correct one.

BornToKill wrote: »

Is it that they couldn't understand you or couldn't stand under you?

Indricotherium wrote: »

Make sure he speaks IRISH and not Irish as well.

nuac wrote: »

Forgot to mention that you should check that the paper in the Garda's notepaper carries an Irish made watermark.

Cant trace the authority for this at the mom, but it used to be a big issue in the GAA, and many Gardaí are in the GAA. I am sure they would appreciate you asking

While people who frequent this forum know these are jokes, many people just don't get sarcasm and/or are gullible and/or take what's written on this forum as truth. It worries me a bit to think that someone, somewhere, might walk away from this thread believing any of this.

Perhaps we should not jokingly offer Freeman-type "advice". Also, I don't think the OP was out to try Freeman-like stuff, and maybe we shouldn't have automatically jumped to the conclusion that he was...

Finally someone who thinks rationally about things, and dosent jump to conclusion on what sort of personality I have, what car I drive, what language I speak?! What relevance has any of that got to do with the questions posed? It amuses me that you cannot ask a question on here without someone getting all sarcastic or defensive. Chill people!!!!

While the op may not be a freman there is a ring of fremanism about his original question; can you deliberately delay a Garda by insisting to be dealt with in Irish?

The answer to can you is yes.

Should you, is a different question.

IMO no you shouldn't. If the op is innocent as he claims, he will be deliberately prolonging his interaction with the Garda in question.

If he is not then he is needlessly antagonising a man doing his job and creating potential problems for himself down the road.

I'm open to correction here, but I assume there is a much smaller and therefore more expensive pool of barristers/solicitors with the required competence in Irish to defend a case.