Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 (End of March 2012 onwards)

In fairness to Roy today in his interview saying Liverpool were clearly the better side and that they were lucky hate the way some managers come on after a lucky win saying how well they defended and deserved their victory.

Theres been plenty of games where we havent created chances, whats the common denominator? We dont win.

Gbear is spot on in his analysis imo. I think he is reading my mind or recording my conversations with people on Liverpool.

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IF only we had a clinical finisher this season but if me aunt had balls....

Caroll, who has been impressive lately like the first half today is struggling with the headers in the box, hes gotten a few goals from em but alot of easy headers have sailed wide. Its frustrating as thats his main thing but in fairness hes gotten such a grilling this year god knows what hes going through.
Id like to see him stay next season tbh he does really try. Im sure the first thing he thought when he signed was "great im playing for liverpool, one of the biggest clubs around" and secondly, oh sh*t they dropped 35mill on me how do i make a return on that. They guys been under pressure from day one hopefully the summer will see a turn around, likeable guy really bar the newcastle incident.

Gbear wrote: »

Not really. The same thing happened against Sunderland on the first game of the season. The next game we battered the ever loving **** out of Arsenal and eventually got the breakthrough through a poxy own goal.

3 games later we annihilated Stoke. We had 73% possession away, had 24 shots, 7 on target, 3 times as many passes. We lost that in similar circumstances to today. It's read this way all season long.

I would argue that we've dipped below a further threshold since Xmas because of the loss of Lucas and Suarez (wins -> draws, draws -> losses).

There's been a few stinkers this season - bolton away, spurs away (even without losing 2 players to red cards we were still crap and deserved losers) but the overriding pattern has been dominant possession, dominant chances, on and off target, having 10 times as many corners and failing to score from the easiest of chances or making **** decisions in the box (like Suarez today on a couple of occasions).

I'd give our finishing a 0/10 this season but i'd give the average of everything else at about 8/10. The 0 is catastrophic though. Our scoring (not so much our attack in general) has been so **** as to invalidate the quality of everything else we've done.

7 points out of 39 says otherwise, we were on target for a top 4 finish before that. Something isn't right, we've players who have consistent records of scoring either with us or other PL teams and somehow it hasn't been fixed.

I go a long with the Lucas and Suarez line but a partner for Lucas and a clinical finisher is the priority for a top 4 challenge. Adam nor any alternative is top 4 standard. When we've everybody fit and you can't plan for a season like that, we are very light in CM. Ideally a playmaker who can fill in for Lucas if required.

Striker is the obvious and I'd say a RW.

K-9 wrote: »

7 points out of 39 says otherwise, we were on target for a top 4 finish before that. Something isn't right, we've players who have consistent records of scoring either with us or other PL teams and somehow it hasn't been fixed.

I go a long with the Lucas and Suarez line but a partner for Lucas and a clinical finisher is the priority for a top 4 challenge. Adam nor any alternative is top 4 standard. When we've everybody fit and you can't plan for a season like that, we are very light in CM. Ideally a playmaker who can fill in for Lucas if required.

Striker is the obvious and I'd say a RW.

The point is that we started throwing points away on day 1 against sunderland.
I think that the team was stretched and at the slightest sign of adversity (losing lucas, suarez) we crumbled. The media always lark on about the "stuff of champions" when teams can score and win when they're not playing well. That's just about quality in the final 3rd and clinical finishing in my book. It's not some intangible x-factor.

If you look at teams without the money cheat on, Henderson and Spearing (particularly the former given he has lots of room to improve and probably will) would be fine as squad players. That's all Spearing will ever be. Hopefully in time Henderson can become more.
Despite that supposed frailty, we've still created enough to win and our throwing of points away can not possibly be blamed on Spearing not giving enough quality going forward or Henderson sometimes going missing.

That's not to say world class midfielders wouldn't make us better and even would earn us a few extra points, but I don't think in terms of value for money, that would be the best solution.

I'd rather spend 5-10m on a Granero and get a a striker for 20m+ than compromising 50/50.

Just look at other teams.
Despite Utd having a midfield that's easy to shut down, despite Barca having no recognisable defence, despite blablabla.
If you've got goalscorers you can get away with varying levels of weaknesses.
Incidentally I don't think Spearing or Henderson are weaknesses. I think they're both useful assets - Spearing as a willing, competent worker who'll probably be happy to play a bit-part role in the long term for fairly low wages and Henderson as a very bright prospect.

For all that has been said on the subject, i really dont think that Carroll is the problem.

In Maxi and Bellamy, we have two players that have largely produced the goods when given any sort of game time. Kuyt less so but we know he needs a run in the team. All 3 have not been picked for the majority of the seaon.

Instead, 2 big money signings have been consistently played instead. Neithet have produced the goods yet are still selected.

Then you have Suarez who causes absolute havoc in tge oppositions box. He unfortunately makes the wrong decision too often though and could even be accused of being greedy - to the overall detriment of the team. He isnt the problem though.

The problem is down to tge wrong wingers veing selected and the lack of a creative player in the centre of midfield that can set the pace of the match, pick passes and actually create chances. Gerrard gives the vast majority of that but someone else needs to be bought to take over that responsibility. That and pick players with intelligence and the willingness to push up and support the strikers.

5starpool wrote: »

This is quite a few transfer windows in a row we've been saying this exact same thing. Hopefully this summer will be the one we can stop. Just home now after a long day trip over. Depressing indeed.

really feel for ya man...

trips are suppose to be fun. and right now its like booking a trip to somewhere you know has bad service and its gonna rain.

Gbear wrote: »

The point is that we started throwing points away on day 1 against sunderland.
I think that the team was stretched and at the slightest sign of adversity (losing lucas, suarez) we crumbled. The media always lark on about the "stuff of champions" when teams can score and win when they're not playing well. That's just about quality in the final 3rd and clinical finishing in my book. It's not some intangible x-factor.

If you look at teams without the money cheat on, Henderson and Spearing (particularly the former given he has lots of room to improve and probably will) would be fine as squad players. That's all Spearing will ever be. Hopefully in time Henderson can become more.
Despite that supposed frailty, we've still created enough to win and our throwing of points away can not possibly be blamed on Spearing not giving enough quality going forward or Henderson sometimes going missing.

That's not to say world class midfielders wouldn't make us better and even would earn us a few extra points, but I don't think in terms of value for money, that would be the best solution.

I'd rather spend 5-10m on a Granero and get a a striker for 20m+ than compromising 50/50.

Just look at other teams.
Despite Utd having a midfield that's easy to shut down, despite Barca having no recognisable defence, despite blablabla.
If you've got goalscorers you can get away with varying levels of weaknesses.
Incidentally I don't think Spearing or Henderson are weaknesses. I think they're both useful assets - Spearing as a willing, competent worker who'll probably be happy to play a bit-part role in the long term for fairly low wages and Henderson as a very bright prospect.

I don't really see why you are pointing at the very first League match against Sunderland or the Arsenal match. Something like 34 appearances between 6 players was the stat for the Sunderland match. I was happy enougfh with us up to Christmas, on course for 4th and expecting the team to move on.

How a team of a good few new signings could show CL qualification form for half a season, when it's nearly half a new team, and show relegation form for the rest................

And I don't think it is just Lucas or Suarez.

K-9 wrote: »

I don't really see why you are pointing at the very first League match against Sunderland or the Arsenal match. Something like 34 appearances between 6 players was the stat for the Sunderland match. I was happy enougfh with us up to Christmas, on course for 4th and expecting the team to move on.

How a team of a good few new signings could show CL qualification form for half a season, when it's nearly half a new team, and show relegation form for the rest................

And I don't think it is just Lucas or Suarez.

We've been **** at scoring throughout, no?
My point is that with the two mentioned above, we could sortof just about get away with it but without them we can't.
Also I think having all the pressure on non-reliable goalscorers has made them even worse at scoring then they were. Some of the misses don't look like they're from players with the skill, confidence or both to put even easy chances away.

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

I am not really suggesting half a new squad though, am I?

I have advocated selecting players from the existing based based on their effectiveness and not their transfer fee.

That and buying a quality attack minded midfielder.

That's what I was suggesting it would require to make Carroll score enough to justify his place as our main striker.

Shelvey's in a bit of bother with a few fans, apparently he was throwing bottles around tonight at a concert and hit a few people with them.