Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Foxtrol wrote: »

You’re not at all comparing like with like there.

I know there have been recent media reports stating that Munster are making a loss this year (after IFRU funding), does anyone know if that sort of information is available for the other provinces?

the finances usually get a mention around annual report time. McNaughton mentioned that the IRFU pumped money into Ulster as they didn't have the same revenue streams as Leinster & Munster and I seem to recall blue murder a few years ago about Leinster writing off losses over the failure to get planning permission to develop donnybrook.

edit here is a link to the newspaper article about the leinster loss.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/magners-league/leinster-debt-shock-2196169.html

Lelantos wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd love to see all three in there. Penney with his head coaching experience, Foley continuing with the defense and pack and learning and Tana taking the backs on. Hopefully that's what they're looking at as well.

That would scare me, as a leinster fan.

It seems these are the only 3 names we can attract. Why? Best guess is that the money isn't there to attract all the big name coaches. Can't see them shelling out for 3 positions in total, just not going to happen imo

Money not being there is just a guess on your part though.

Can't see Penney demanding more than McGahan, so the only person they'd have to "shell out" extra for is Umaga. And how much more than Holland would he really cost? They're not even increasing the head count.

Top coaches want big pay, none of the names thatwere mentioned at the start gave materialized, its a known fact Munster lose money every year, belts gave to be tightened now

Rob Penney was mentioned from the beginning, so was Foley. Umaga is the only surprise.

Realistically I see no financial barrier to bringing these guys in.

Penney was never a name the fans bandied around or the papers for that matter at the v start Kirwan, Smith even EOS said he was interested, none of these were interviewed, maybe none were considered. As I said before, Munster lose money every year, now we have to cut our cloth to suit the economic climate.

Penneys name surfaced very early. I heard about him from a Munster fan directly after McGahan announced he was moving on and Corcoran tweeted he was being considered shortly after. Smith was never interested by all accounts, Kirwan has done nothing to show he'd be better than Penney. EOS would be a jokeshop appointment.

As for finances, Munster are continuously under budget. This is the first year they havent been in the black and even if it mattered its a small loss. The IRFU know well that investing in quality coaching would be worth every Penney.

Foxtrol wrote: »

As per the Quinlan article today all provinces would be making a loss without the IRFU funding. Including the general IRFU assistance they're still coming out with a loss this year.

Ulster might not have the same revenues but they also do not benefit as much from central contracts as Munster or Leinster so I don't think they can be begrudged a bit of extra funding.

That article doesn't mention writing off losses at all. It says that they were in deficit but that they were planing to reduce it over the next few years (which I presume is exactly what is happening). There's a massive difference.

I indicated that I had a hazy memory of losses. That article was pre AGM. This is the report of the deficit for the year 09-10 was €342,000.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/leinster-reveal-financial-deficit-to-tune-of-350000-2198166.html

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I didn't like that set of accounts since it left out the semi and final monies completly

Year end is probably end of april so couldn't be included, though, does the gate of the final not go to the running of the league (with the league paying for the hire of the stadium) and would the semi not be split between the two team competing?

Foxtrol wrote: »

That still doesn't say they wrote off any debt. Yes they had a deficit but if anything that article further backs up my original point (before it got dragged off topic) as through Leinster taking Rocky and CJ off their wage bill they reduced their cost base rather than increasing it as some earlier posters believe that Munster can, despite their deteriorating finances.

Look, I said I had a hazy memory of losses when I first posted the comment. I since found the article and posted it which cleared up the point.

I do remember though there being an issue about Leinster losing a lot of money over not getting planning permission to deveop donnybrook. the money was meant to pay for the development of the stand in donnybrook which cost about 6/7 million which the leinster branch would have had to pay provide for.

From that article it would seem that all players were in for a wage cut anyway - a lot of that will depend on when players were renewing their contracts as to how much they can reduce their wage bill.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Lelantos wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I'd love to see all three in there. Penney with his head coaching experience, Foley continuing with the defense and pack and learning and Tana taking the backs on. Hopefully that's what they're looking at as well.

That would scare me, as a leinster fan.

It seems these are the only 3 names we can attract. Why? Best guess is that the money isn't there to attract all the big name coaches. Can't see them shelling out for 3 positions in total, just not going to happen imo

Money not being there is just a guess on your part though.

Can't see Penney demanding more than McGahan, so the only person they'd have to "shell out" extra for is Umaga. And how much more than Holland would he really cost? They're not even increasing the head count.

The New Zealand fans don't want Penney to move to NH rugby and seem to rate him at a similar level to Schmidt and Cotter. They also can't understand how he has been passed over for apparently inferior options at Super15 level. To me of those mentioned he is the stand out candidate for the Head Coach role. Axel to continue as forwards coach - will surely pick up a thing or two from Penney. They would clearly need to bring in a backs coach, but on the basis of his past I'd trust Penney to get that right, whether or not that is Tana remains to be seen...

at this point i'd be surprised if its not Foley with Umaga as backs coach.

Foxtrol wrote: »

If you read my post again I never said that Munster needed to reduce their cost base, though getting rid of some of the dead weight in their squad wouldn’t be a bad thing. I however don’t believe that Munster will be able to afford hiring two new coaches which will clearly cost more than the current set up. This lack of money has already been evidenced by the fact they could not attract one of the high profile names which have been bandied about when news first broke of a vacancy (either that or even with big money being offered none of the big names were interested in the job (which I find doubtful)).

Do you have any evidence to support your conclusion that the IRFU will sit idly by and allow Munster to run up an even larger loss through increasing their expenditure further? The IRFU are not a Saudi Sheikh with a blank chequebook who will allow a province to throw money around and only to see them having to foot the bill.

I don’t know why you keep harping back to Ulster when it comes to IRFU support as if you add in the additional help Munster get via their centrally contracted players I can’t imagine how over the last decade Ulster would have gotton so much (if any) extra support from the IRFU.

Boring Boring Very Boring, please set up a new thread for this so that I can avoid it!:(

Otacon wrote: »

But if they are hiring two new coaches [Penney and Umaga], these people would be replacing two current coaches [McGahan and Holland], not adding two extras to the wage bill so I don't see how it would be much more if at all.

I’m quite aware that they will be replacing the others and I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that I wasn’t. Personally I think Penney and Umaga will cost more as firstly they aren’t internal appointments like those they are replacing and as Umaga is going for the head coach role I doubt he’ll be willing to accept the backs position without some sort of monetary compensation. If you disagree don’t go asking for evidence as you won’t be able to offer any to support your opinion either.

Names bandied about by the media. There was no indication that Munster even contacted these people.

Can you honestly say that you think out of all the possible coaching options out there Penney and Umaga were the cream of the crop and as such were the highest level options hoped for by the Munster Blazers? Due to the interview process it seems like it was an open process, where they looked for applications rather than knowing who they wanted and going after them. I don’t believe these two are exactly what was hoped for as they don’t even fit into the type of coach that would make the most sense to the setup, an experienced backs orientated coach.

Do you have any evidence that coaches were not interested because of a 'rumoured' lower salary than normal?

Just as there is no evidence that Munster were offering top level pay there is also no evidence to support the lower salary. I am however working off the logic that if Munster is seen as a top job in rugby and if they are offering top wages then you would expect top level coaches to apply. They haven’t so one (or both) of those must not be correct and I’m think the latter.

There is no evidence at all that Munster need to increase their expenditure. Care to provide evidence of this need?

If you read back you can see I was responding to Amazotheamazing’s comment that Munster can increase their expenditure as “We'll always have the IRFU to bail us out regardless.”

There were rumours about Wayne Smith - but he declined to interview for the England head coach job saying that he didn't want to be a Head Coach as he couldn't stand all the admin work and preferred to just coach.

On Munster's finances foxy - Munster have revenue streams outside of rugby such as hiring out Thomond Park for games that other provinces don't have such as holding the Ireland A match in the AIs. There have been soccer matches there in the past like sunderland on pre-season tour, special olympics events, Ireland played australia, and rugby league world cup this year.

One of these events should cover the cost of a 2 year contract for the coaching staff.

Good point Amazotheamazing about the Ireland squad in Munster. The IRFU pay top dollar to keep POC & co there and then skimp on the coaching.