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Miss Universe has a little secret...

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    #422
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    Links234 wrote: »
    yeah, I can think that, 'cos there's plenty of things where trans women can enter contests/competitions/whatever and nobody bats an eyelid. I had been invited to play women's roller derby before. *shrug*

    and so what if she happened to know this would cause a stir? are people supposed to shy away from doing anything that might cause a stir? I don't understand that mentality at all!

    you said in the post i quoted that she didn't think anything would be made of the fact she entered.

    what else was likely to happen?


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    #423
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    EGAR wrote: »
    Do you know her to jump to that conclusion?

    A *stir* should not have happened, and that is the whole point.

    how can you not see that this would get media attention/cause a stir or whatever


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    #424
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    did i say anything was wrong with it in that post; stop trying to see arguments about whether its wrong/right in posts where there not any

    the post i quoted seems to think that the person involved thought nothing would be made of the fact that entering a miss universe contest after being born male would not be an issue

    she knew trying to enter would cause a stir & gain a lot of media attention - anyone in their right mind would realise this - for whatever reason, her only personal vanity or maybe trying to bring more media to tg people

    Isn't that what a lot of people do who are perhaps trying to get a media career, cause a stir, gather an interest. I don't condemn that, just because she is TG that does not mean she is not entitled to gather her opportunity if that is her intention.

    Otherwise i misinterpreted your post apologies.


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    #425
    xsiborg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭xsiborg


    Links234 wrote: »
    then why dedicate so much time to a thread like this?

    this isn't about any sort of "personal agenda" or anything, and of course everyone else has their own problems, that goes without saying. it's an issue of when people are coming into a thread like this, and spewing all kinds of utterly wrong nonsense about how trans people are sick or freaks or mentally ill, and of course I'm going to counter that.

    I think it's pretty ridiculous for someone to say "oh well I've got my own issues/agenda/whatever" when they're repeatedly concerning themselves with trans issues. you don't go into a thread you're not interested in, just to say you're not interested, do you?

    really now Links, and when was the last time you posted in After Hours when there wasnt a thread on transgendered people? how would you like it if i said "off back to the LGBT forum with you, you have no business here!!".

    i said it wasnt high on my list of priorities, but that list can change depending on how my interests or even my interest in something changes. in just the same way as i respect your right to counter what you see as utter nonsense, am i not deserving of the same respect when i try to counter your painting of me as a bigot or transphobic?

    but just so we're absolutely clear and let there be no doubt about it, you alluded earlier to my "barely masked contempt" for this girl. i hadnt meant for it to be barely masked. i have nothing but contempt for her.

    but i am not outraged, nor do i expect you to share what outrage? i dont expect that just because you are transgendered you're going to share my opinion either, you assumed that too.

    and as for the "how dare that uppity tranny try to do anything" comment, thats not what i said either, but yet you still manage to alienate me and label me a bigot even though you have completely twisted everything i said.

    i've said it before and i'll say it again, some posters need to get over themselves and realise that just because they have experience of something does not make them an almighty enlightened authority on the subject.


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    #426
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    Links234 wrote: »
    I don't think I've ever seen any extreme feminists* on boards, and besides, there's a big difference in saying that people aren't hard-wired from birth for certain aptitudes and behaviors, and saying that there's no difference in male and female brains from birth.

    *though what After Hours considered an extreme feminist is probably very different to what I'd consider one.

    I agree, I have seen non of it, but people seem to want to argue about things I'm fine with that let them or discuss things with them, and my apologies on this, cause I know you our doing good,

    I do understand the idea of equal rights for everyone, but I was thought that from early on, nor do I believe someone, should agree with me, if they have a fine line, that is life, nor do I agree with transgendered people making it the major part of their lives, it shouldn't be.

    I agree she should be allowed to enter the competition for what it's worth, but I disagree with the thinking of some people that she's a freak, that's a no no.

    Some of these people (I hope to god their one of their children dosen't feel the same way I did from 4) I just never had the courage.

    Think what you think of us, think what you need to think to keep you safe, but we are your friends and family, if you will only acknowledge us :) as being transgendered :)


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    #427
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    44leto wrote: »
    Isn't that what a lot of people do who are perhaps trying to get a media career, cause a stir, gather an interest. I don't condemn that, just because she is TG that does not mean she is not entitled to gather her opportunity if that is her intention.

    Otherwise i misinterpreted your post apologies.

    I'm not saying she not entitled to do that, if she wants some sort of celebrity status

    what I'm saying is in her case i don't think anyone could be naive enough to think that entering that competition would have just been a case of filling out a form or whatever it is - do you not have to win your countries miss competition first to get to miss universe? slightly OT - but you'd know full well what to expect


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    #428
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    I'm not saying she not entitled to do that, if she wants some sort of celebrity status

    what I'm saying is in her case i don't think anyone could be naive enough to think that entering that competition would have just been a case of filling out a form or whatever it is - do you not have to win your countries miss competition first to get to miss universe? slightly OT - but you'd know full well what to expect

    True but does it matter, this idea that she was cheating them out of honesty to create a name for herself, is a little bit crazy!!!! how many real girls in the competition lied about taking illegal drugs, I would estimate at least 25%, so she lied and was caught out, she is a good looking girl of "23 years of age" yep I would argue my case if I looked as good as her and was that age, I think most girls would of her age, so the problem is what exactly? :confused:


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    #429
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    BlueSmoker wrote: »
    True but does it matter, this idea that she was cheating them out of honesty to create a name for herself, is a little bit crazy!!!! how many real girls in the competition lied about taking illegal drugs, I would estimate at least 25%, so she lied and was caught out, she is a good looking girl of "23 years of age" yep I would argue my case if I looked as good as her and was that age, I think most girls would of her age, so the problem is what exactly? :confused:

    jesus christ is anyone saying there's a problem

    she would have known this would get attention, either for herself so she could be a celebrity of sorts or else to get people aware of tg people

    and if she was trying to get to be a celebrity, this is a great way of doing it, probably the easiest root for her tbh.

    if that was the case theirs not one one thing crazy about it, do you not realise the lengths people will go to so the can be famous/stay famous.

    I suppose you think its just a weird coincidence that georgia salpa is nearly always wearing low cut tops & makeup when out doing mundane things, not the fact that she'll be photographed and her títs/looks are what she's famous for


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    #430
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    I have to say, can must guys think outside the "box" I would ask this question if you where having the most amazing sex life with a person ( you know thicking all of your spots) would you throw that person aside :confused: ????? I'm curious now if you based that idea on a gender rather than your own sexuality. The biggest people I know place it on their sexuality, "they know what the want" smaller insecure people base it on their gender, security in there believe system, it seems to a certain degree that is what people want. You see throwen the insanity card out there (would make me believe your insane) I can deal with life as a transgendered person better by accepting who I am, most people deal with life by accepting who they our (with no one dictating to them why they are that way) I hope everyone has a idea of what reality is, because they may need it after this post :)


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    #431
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,460 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    BlueSmoker wrote: »
    I have to say, can must guys think outside the "box" (if any of use had sex with a trangendered person you would probably not know (unlesss you looked at my comments) I would ask this question if you where having the most amazing sex life with a person ( you know thicking all of your spots) would you throw that person aside :confused: ?????
    I personally wouldn't view that person the same as before and it would probably be the end of any relationship I had with them on that level.

    Sorry if that's harsh but it's the truth.

    I may be in the minority there though!


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    #432
    xsiborg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭xsiborg


    BlueSmoker wrote: »
    I have to say, can must guys think outside the "box" (if any of use had sex with a trangendered person you would probably not know (unlesss you looked at my comments) I would ask this question if you where having the most amazing sex life with a person ( you know thicking all of your spots) would you throw that person aside :confused: ?????

    i'd like to answer your question BlueSmoker- i'd never "throw someone aside", but it would give me considerable pause for thought, in the same way as they would expect me to be honest in a relationship, i would expect the same honesty from them.

    if it was only on a one night stand basis, and as you say if i wasnt aware of it, then i couldnt see any problem tbh, but if we were talking about a relationship, then surely you could see the long term implications of that, and i'd sooner be aware of it than find out later on down the line that we would never have children by natural means (that being just one of the issues that would present itself).


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    #433
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    jesus christ is anyone saying there's a problem

    she would have known this would get attention, either for herself so she could be a celebrity of sorts or else to get people aware of tg people

    and if she was trying to get to be a celebrity, this is a great way of doing it, probably the easiest root for her tbh.

    if that was the case theirs not one one thing crazy about it, do you not realise the lengths people will go to so the can be famous/stay famous.

    I suppose you think its just a weird coincidence that georgia salpa is nearly always wearing low cut tops & makeup when out doing mundane things, not the fact that she'll be photographed and her títs/looks are what she's famous for


    Nope I never mention what she did was crazy, other posters did though, you being one of them, I just explained it was very natural for a beautiful girl of 23 years of age to argue why she couldn't be in the Miss Universe Competition, on grounds of the rules that she suggested where wrong. I believe in to days society most girls would actually argue the same case, so really she is being completely female, and as most posters point out, generally people have a problem with her being born/judged male, before she could even talk or communicate how she felt, so well done society lets life by this binary system that most seem to agree on, particularly doctors.

    Get a grip


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    #434
    G.K.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭G.K.


    As a transgender person myself, I'm disappointed with lots of the views expressed in this thread. To think so much of this could be solved with simple education - the information isn't hard to find that would disprove lots of what has been said about us.. Sigh.


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    #435
    Dimithy
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Dimithy


    xsiborg wrote: »
    i hadnt meant for it to be barely masked. i have nothing but contempt for her.

    I really dont get this. Why do you have such contempt for her?


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    #436
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    Dimithy wrote: »
    I really dont get this. Why do you have such contempt for her?

    Neither do I, but some people do, why ??? I can only guess:confused:


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    #437
    xsiborg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭xsiborg


    BlueSmoker wrote: »
    Nope I never mention what she did was crazy, other posters did though, you being one of them, I just explained it was very natural for a beautiful girl of 23 years of age to argue why she couldn't be in the Miss Universe Competition, on grounds of the rules that she suggested where wrong. I believe in to days society most girls would actually argue the same case, so really she is being completely female, and as most posters point out, generally people have a problem with her being born/judged male, before she could even talk or communicate how she felt, so well done society lets life by this binary system that most seem to agree on, particularly doctors.

    Get a grip

    she would have to abide by the rules just like anyone else though BlueSmoker, why did she not ask for the rules to be changed so she COULD enter?

    because that wouldn't have gotten her half as much attention. and did you not read the way that had the rules not been changed, she had a celebrity lawyer on standby just to promote herself even more.

    the idea of her being only interested in self promotion is not as crazy as it sounds really when you think about the amount of media attention she's getting. that's like saying samantha brick didnt know the shítstorm SHE was going to kick up when she wrote that article.

    these women are not stupid, and it would be stupid to think that they could be that naive.
    G.K. wrote: »
    As a transgender person myself, I'm disappointed with lots of the views expressed in this thread. To think so much of this could be solved with simple education - the information isn't hard to find that would disprove lots of what has been said about us.. Sigh.

    with respect though G.K., it shouldnt be a "us against them" argument, and people that are interested in finding out more about what it is to be transgender will certainly at least go looking for the information, but the simple fact of the matter is that most people don't care enough to want to know more.
    Dimithy wrote: »
    I really dont get this. Why do you have such contempt for her?

    because of the way she went about publicising herself under the guise of highlighting the issue of transgendered people. i neither believe she is a role model for transgendered people, nor women in general.

    the kind of people i would consider role models for transgendered people are that girl isis that was on america's next top model, or chastity bono, who appeared on dancing with the stars, who generated far more interest in the issues of transgendered people, than the idiots who go for the shock and sensationalism factor, purely to get their own 15 seconds of fame.


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    #438
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    xsiborg wrote: »
    she would have to abide by the rules just like anyone else though BlueSmoker, why did she not ask for the rules to be changed so she COULD enter?

    because that wouldn't have gotten her half as much attention. and did you not read the way that had the rules not been changed, she had a celebrity lawyer on standby just to promote herself even more.

    the idea of her being only interested in self promotion is not as crazy as it sounds really when you think about the amount of media attention she's getting. that's like saying samantha brick didnt know the shítstorm SHE was going to kick up when she wrote that article.

    these women are not stupid, and it would be stupid to think that they could be that naive.



    with respect though G.K., it shouldnt be a "us against them" argument, and people that are interested in finding out more about what it is to be transgender will certainly at least go looking for the information, but the simple fact of the matter is that most people don't care enough to want to know more.



    because of the way she went about publicising herself under the guise of highlighting the issue of transgendered people. i neither believe she is a role model for transgendered people, nor women in general.

    the kind of people i would consider role models for transgendered people are that girl isis that was on america's next top model, or chastity bono, who appeared on dancing with the stars, who generated far more interest in the issues of transgendered people, than the idiots who go for the shock and sensationalism factor, purely to get their own 15 seconds of fame.

    The point is she didn't ask for the rules to be changed, she did exactly what most girls did on the appilication, she lied, are you telling that at least 50 % didn't lie on their application ???


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    #439
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    batistuta9 wrote: »
    you cannot seriously think that she went and entered the competition with the thought that no one would bat an eyelid

    she knew rightly what was going to happen & that it would cause a stir
    While we're in the realm of making assumptions, maybe she just always wanted to be Miss Universe, took a deep breath and went for it. Maybe she hoped nobody would notice, or care, or would just understand. Maybe being from what is legislatively a quite accepting country she was just naive. Maybe she did want to cause a stir, kill off a few old stereotypes, increase awareness, at any rate I don't understand the point in making such assumptions, or for that matter, the point you were trying to make in raising yours, could you clarify this for me?


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    #440
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    BlueSmoker wrote: »
    The point is she didn't ask for the rules to be changed, she did exactly what most girls did on the appilication, she lied, are you telling that at least 50 % didn't lie on their application ???

    And how often where the "beauties" asked these question?

    1) when did you eat meat?

    Last week don't worry it be fine

    2) when did you last think of peace

    3 months ago (don't worry we will sort that out)

    3) When did you last take an illegal drug

    About 3 months ago

    4) When did you last make love to somone

    About 3 months ago,

    Hold on I'm not a self proclaimed hippy here

    ..... We know but you disqualified from entering the pageant, you basically haven't take enough drugs, sorry good luck next time :)


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    #441
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    xsiborg wrote: »
    really now Links, and when was the last time you posted in After Hours when there wasnt a thread on transgendered people? how would you like it if i said "off back to the LGBT forum with you, you have no business here!!".

    i said it wasnt high on my list of priorities, but that list can change depending on how my interests or even my interest in something changes. in just the same way as i respect your right to counter what you see as utter nonsense, am i not deserving of the same respect when i try to counter your painting of me as a bigot or transphobic?

    you were the one who started on about having priorities and not bothering listening to people's "agendas", my point is why bother do that if you're continuing to spend so much time and effort posting in this thread. I post in threads like this because they concern me, and broadly they are about me and people like me. most of your recent posts on this thread seem to be about how little interest you have in the trans issues, so what I'm trying to ask here is, why are you so concerned about this?

    and no, I didn't say you were a bigot or transphobic, those are your words.
    xsiborg wrote: »
    but just so we're absolutely clear and let there be no doubt about it, you alluded earlier to my "barely masked contempt" for this girl. i hadnt meant for it to be barely masked. i have nothing but contempt for her.

    but... WHY?!

    why is it such an issue? that's what I'm trying to figure out here, you seem to be so against her, so agitated by the fact that she's challenged her disqualification, you said you think she shouldn't have even entered the competition in the first place, why? what is so damned wrong with what she's doing with her life that makes you hold nothing but contempt for her?!
    xsiborg wrote: »
    but i am not outraged, nor do i expect you to share what outrage? i dont expect that just because you are transgendered you're going to share my opinion either, you assumed that too.

    well you certainly seem outraged. saying that you have "nothing but contempt" for a person who has done nothing wrong is very, very strong words. not to mention how many times you've called her an idiot over the course of this thread.
    xsiborg wrote: »
    and as for the "how dare that uppity tranny try to do anything" comment, thats not what i said either, but yet you still manage to alienate me and label me a bigot even though you have completely twisted everything i said.

    yeah, well you're pretty much dancing around the issue of why exactly you think all of this is so very wrong, and I certainly haven't labeled you as anything, all I'm doing is asking what exactly is the issue here?

    and yes, I stand by my "uppity" comment, because from your first post on the thread when you were under the impression that she was the one who brought up the fact she's transgender, you've been complaining about her "attention seeking". when informed that she didn't bring it up, you were complaining about her, implying that she intentionally tried to cause a stir anyway. you seem to have thought it was wrong of her to have even entered the contest in the first place, you've ranted that "it's the people who make an issue of their own differences that annoy me."

    so yes, you seem to have taken serious issue with her having done... well, anything! how DARE she! she should've just kept her head down, never done anything, and never ever brought up that she was transgender!
    xsiborg wrote: »
    i've said it before and i'll say it again, some posters need to get over themselves and realise that just because they have experience of something does not make them an almighty enlightened authority on the subject.

    uh-huh. I don't get to speak about something that directly effects me, eh? I should "get over myself" and just stfu and not rock the boat. gotcha. ;)


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    #442
    xsiborg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭xsiborg


    Links with respect, you've taken me up completely wrong, and i have tried and tried and tried yet again to try and explain myself. im exhausted at this point as i think you are being purposely obtuse.

    i know what im thinking in my head, but it's harder to convey it in written form, you're going to believe what you want anyway and what i think isnt really relevant any more obviously.

    christ from a person who wants to be shown understanding, you dont display a whole lot of it yourself, you could have at least tried to see where i was coming from, but congratulations anyway, you win the internets, well done, hope you're happy.


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    #443
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    BlueSmoker wrote: »
    The point is she didn't ask for the rules to be changed, she did exactly what most girls did on the appilication, she lied, are you telling that at least 50 % didn't lie on their application ???

    Yes if I know girls, who enter this world yep at least 50 % of them did lie, to make themselves look better, why not sit down and ask them, I would gladly give them the benifit of 45 % have lied and that would be in a big way, to the terms and conditions, the point we have here, is no one was lying it wasn't in there terms and conditions, but a person get disqualified on the grounds that she wasn't born female, Do we really need to take a look at the females within the show, cause I would suggested most of them our YYX chromosomes ( if they decided 1/100 males our, I assume 1:100 females are XYX, or XXY, or YXX)and some of the n they belief they areew girls are XXY chromosomes, but sure we can't see that with the human eye, both are what we see as basically female. :)

    What I'm trieing to say most people aren't the chromosomes that they belief they are XY/XX most people are a bastardisation of that :)


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    #444
    BlueSmoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 328 ✭✭BlueSmoker


    Links234 wrote: »
    you were the one who started on about having priorities and not bothering listening to people's "agendas", my point is why bother do that if you're continuing to spend so much time and effort posting in this thread. I post in threads like this because they concern me, and broadly they are about me and people like me. most of your recent posts on this thread seem to be about how little interest you have in the trans issues, so what I'm trying to ask here is, why are you so concerned about this?

    and no, I didn't say you were a bigot or transphobic, those are your words.



    but... WHY?!

    why is it such an issue? that's what I'm trying to figure out here, you seem to be so against her, so agitated by the fact that she's challenged her disqualification, you said you think she shouldn't have even entered the competition in the first place, why? what is so damned wrong with what she's doing with her life that makes you hold nothing but contempt for her?!



    well you certainly seem outraged. saying that you have "nothing but contempt" for a person who has done nothing wrong is very, very strong words. not to mention how many times you've called her an idiot over the course of this thread.



    yeah, well you're pretty much dancing around the issue of why exactly you think all of this is so very wrong, and I certainly haven't labeled you as anything, all I'm doing is asking what exactly is the issue here?

    and yes, I stand by my "uppity" comment, because from your first post on the thread when you were under the impression that she was the one who brought up the fact she's transgender, you've been complaining about her "attention seeking". when informed that she didn't bring it up, you were complaining about her, implying that she intentionally tried to cause a stir anyway. you seem to have thought it was wrong of her to have even entered the contest in the first place, you've ranted that "it's the people who make an issue of their own differences that annoy me."

    so yes, you seem to have taken serious issue with her having done... well, anything! how DARE she! she should've just kept her head down, never done anything, and never ever brought up that she was transgender!



    uh-huh. I don't get to speak about something that directly effects me, eh? I should "get over myself" and just stfu and not rock the boat. gotcha. ;)

    Links although I appreciate what you did, some people weren't actually arguing a case, they where pointing it out how they saw it, don't kill the messagner, rather maybe understand the message:)


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    #445
    xsiborg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭xsiborg


    thank you BloeSmoker for at least making an attempt at understanding what i was trying to say.

    i'll try once more to explain why i think she shouldn't have entered the contest and why i think what she did was wrong, and it is for these reasons i have such contempt for her and i am cynical of her motives.

    first off, she chose to enter a long established beauty pageant that she knew would give her the most exposure, knowing that once her background was investigated, she would bring the pageant into disrepute. (i dont make the rules! i dont go on boards saying what i like either because the rules of boards say i cant do that!). those ARE the rules, and you can either abide by them, or just dont enter the pageant!

    i also happen to disagree with a pageant that promotes the ideal of a woman's "beauty" equating it simply to their physical attributes. so that was my second reason for my particular distaste of this girl. she wanted to be seen as a role model, but yet entered a frivolous beauty contest to do so, when far more would have seen her as a role model had she used her brains to communicate to people what it is to be transgendered.

    thirdly, she went straight to the media and had a celebrity lawyer lined up to fight her case, before she ever went near a court. now donald trump and his organisation are more media savvy than this girl or the organisations that back her will ever be, so he decided she would be allowed back into the competiton. not a word about it since from her, from a girl who claimed she wanted to highlight the issue of discrimination against transgendered people.

    she got her 15 seconds of fame, and THAT is why this girl disgusts me. it was her whole attitude and the way she went about getting attention for herself when she could have actually used her brain to further peoples understanding of transgender issues, and to help people as i said earlier, understand that there is a person inside just what they see on the outside.

    as to why do i keep posting on this issue? it's an issue that interests me. it may not be an issue that i regard highly enough to campaign for it, but that doesnt mean i cant be curious about it, nor have an opinion on it, and while granted, some people might be given to think that i am dancing around issues and so on, i really dont know where they want me to go with what i am saying, so i dont think its me is doing the dancing, as i think i have been doing my best on this thread to be as explicitly clear as possible.


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    #446
    wonderfulname
    Registered Users Posts: 3,943 ✭✭✭wonderfulname


    xsiborg, I can't help but feel that whilst your conclusion makes sense, it's based on an awful lot of other conclusions that don't.

    These pageants start on a lower scale, you don't just walk up and enter Miss Universe, she had already progressed through lower stages, I find it an odd conclusion to draw that she walked into one of these low ranking competitions to take on Donald Trump.
    I find it a strange conclusion that she would expect to answer a question as to whether she was "born naturally female", before this story would you have thought a contestant would have to do so?
    Given that she made effort to conceal her background why does it make sense she expect her effort to fail?
    Why do you assume entering a beauty contest does no benefit for trans women? Might she have wanted to show that trans women have every bit as much capability as others to be beautiful? Surely it is evident from this thread alone that some people believe different.
    Would you not hire a lawyer over a legal matter before it reached court? Would you not hire one relevant to the matter at hand? One that would actually have some chance at working near the level of those in the employment of a billionaire?
    Can you prove she has made no further attempt to contact the media or raise awareness? Can you show she will not do so in future? Given that she can now progress in the competition as any other might it actually be wise of her to lay low if she is actually serious about competing?
    Could you highlight what exactly you mean by her "attitude"?

    Now I don't personally believe all I've suggested, but it is just a matter of belief, we really don't know beyond what has been reported and I do think you're reading into it in a biased manner, and drawing very heavy, concrete conclusions (beyond what is normal, in other words).


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    #447
    tripe man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37 ✭tripe man


    A man being allowed into the Miss Universe competition is insanity, nothing less. This just goes to show how malleable people's minds really are. Could you imagine someone purposed this even 20 years ago? they'd be put in a mental home. But now, everything has to be politically correct towards anyone that could possibly be perceived as a minority, in order to push the liberal fascist agenda in the Western world and do away with any traditional values people have left in them.

    I wonder what kind of sick and twisted **** will be pushed into the mainstream 20 years from now? Pedophilia? Zoophilia? It wouldn't surprise me..


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    #448
    Pdfile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭Pdfile


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    Miss traniverse


    also known as miss thailand


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    #449
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    wonderfulname wrote: »
    While we're in the realm of making assumptions, maybe she just always wanted to be Miss Universe, took a deep breath and went for it. Maybe she hoped nobody would notice, or care, or would just understand. Maybe being from what is legislatively a quite accepting country she was just naive. Maybe she did want to cause a stir, kill off a few old stereotypes, increase awareness, at any rate I don't understand the point in making such assumptions, or for that matter, the point you were trying to make in raising yours, could you clarify this for me?

    clarify the point, it couldn't have been any clearer

    if a person born male turns female by whatever means, tries to enter a miss universe competition they couldn't possibly think that it'll not get any attention.

    there's a number of reasons why this could get such attention, a few that immediately spring to mind are
    1. they say she can't enter. she publicises this fact
    2. some knows she use to be a male & leaks it to the media
    3. another contestant finds out, might also leak it to media


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    #450
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    her entrance music's also been announced
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7auzP9RhCY


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    #451
    batistuta9
    Registered Users Posts: 8,104 ✭✭✭batistuta9


    BlueSmoker wrote: »
    Nope I never mention what she did was crazy, other posters did though, you being one of them, I just explained it was very natural for a beautiful girl of 23 years of age to argue why she couldn't be in the Miss Universe Competition, on grounds of the rules that she suggested where wrong. I believe in to days society most girls would actually argue the same case, so really she is being completely female, and as most posters point out, generally people have a problem with her being born/judged male, before she could even talk or communicate how she felt, so well done society lets life by this binary system that most seem to agree on, particularly doctors.

    Get a grip

    i didn't say you did say it was crazy and i never mentioned what she did as being crazy either- could you read the posts please instead of getting all worked up and posting something like a rant.

    the bit in bold in your post below was what i was replying to, you think the idea of someone manipulating a situation to become famous is crazy. I replied that its not one bit crazy and numerous people do it to get famous/stay famous, even gave you an example
    BlueSmoker wrote: »
    True but does it matter, this idea that she was cheating them out of honesty to create a name for herself, is a little bit crazy!!!! how many real girls in the competition lied about taking illegal drugs, I would estimate at least 25%, so she lied and was caught out, she is a good looking girl of "23 years of age" yep I would argue my case if I looked as good as her and was that age, I think most girls would of her age, so the problem is what exactly? :confused:


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