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Miss Universe has a little secret...

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    #362
    KittyeeTrix
    Registered Users Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭KittyeeTrix


    Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »
    one things for sure these transgenders have some balls , oh no wait ....
    Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »
    boo! how dare you have your own point of view , c'mon lets get him!!!

    how dare you not accept women made in a surgery , they have a gap and no balls , that makes them women ! :rolleyes:
    Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »
    I want to have an operation to become a Ford Fiesta and enter into a car show. oh wait.... I was born a man , ah crap :(
    Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »
    I think this is polital correctness or liberal socialist bullsh1t gone mad,

    theres a dog show in England called crufts as you may all know , and the aim of the competition is to give great examples of the breed of dog.

    thats all these pagents really are , good looking WOMEN !, ...and the only difference is they talk about world peace, and god and bla bla bla.

    no cats in crufts ! no men in Miss Universe!
    Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »
    Im sorry if I hurt your feelings , your here! your q.... etc .
    so please dont get you're frilly knickers in a bunch. x
    Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »
    Transformers,

    hairy men in disguise!
    Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »
    wonder if paddy power will take bets on spot the ball carriers ?

    My problem with your posts on this topic is not so much that your view differs from mine but rather in the way that you choose to get that point of view across.
    If I were a transgender person I would be saddened at how you've repeatedly been so flippant towards their plight with remarks such as those above!!:(


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    #363
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    KittyeeTrix wrote: »
    My problem with your posts on this topic is not so much that your view differs from mine but rather in the way that you choose to get that point of view across.
    If I were a transgender person I would be saddened at how you've repeatedly been so flippant towards their plight with remarks such as those above!!:(

    Crikes I only seen one of his "jokes" this guy is a natural comedian, he plays the idiot so well.

    Could you imagine sharing a house with this hilarious guy, those long winter evenings would just fly, but the downside would be all the visits to the hospital from your side splitting with the mirth of his super original jokes.

    This is a sincere post:)


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    #364
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    KittyeeTrix wrote: »
    My problem with your posts on this topic is not so much that your view differs from mine but rather in the way that you choose to get that point of view across.
    If I were a transgender person I would be saddened at how you've repeatedly been so flippant towards their plight with remarks such as those above!!:(

    When you read them as you quoted them it's kinda funny to read.


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    #365
    Paulie Gualtieri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭Paulie Gualtieri


    KittyeeTrix wrote: »
    My problem with your posts on this topic is not so much that your view differs from mine but rather in the way that you choose to get that point of view across.
    If I were a transgender person I would be saddened at how you've repeatedly been so flippant towards their plight with remarks such as those above!!:(

    yes I was acting the mickey at first , so sorry god. I wont do it again !


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    #366
    KittyeeTrix
    Registered Users Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭KittyeeTrix


    hondasam wrote: »
    When you read them as you quoted them it's kinda funny to read.

    Oh I agree, but then I remember that some of the boardsies on here that we know well from posting are essentially the butt of these humour attempts and that definitely knocks the comedy shine off it for me......:(

    I now its AH and all that jazz but ya know, that's just me:)


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    #367
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »
    I dont agree with transgenders entering a miss universe contest in the same way I wouldnt agree with a straight man entering a Mr. gay universe. because one is a competition for women and the other is a competition for gay men.

    It's a Miss Universe competion! Who gives a fúck? I couldn't care less if a shaved chimp entered.
    Legally being called a woman is ok, but entering Miss Universe, now, that's just going to far.

    You might find a man attractive and you'll think your masculinity is threatened. That's the only way this can effect you.


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    #368
    KittyeeTrix
    Registered Users Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭KittyeeTrix


    Paulie Gualtieri wrote: »
    yes I was acting the mickey at first , so sorry god. I wont do it again !

    Not god..............just a regular poster who is pointing out that possibly your views may be taken more seriously and your posts not hopped upon if they were not an endless attempt to get a laugh out of a situation which for many is a living hell...............That's all:)


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    #369
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    KittyeeTrix wrote: »
    Oh I agree, but then I remember that some of the boardsies on here that we know well from posting are essentially the butt of these humour attempts and that definitely knocks the comedy shine off it for me......:(

    I now its AH and all that jazz but ya know, that's just me:)

    No one wants to me made fun of but it happens. That poster might in another thread find something serious and we could laugh at it, it's just the way it is.


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    #370
    xsiborg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭xsiborg


    Dimithy wrote: »
    She was disqualified because she was transgender, thats kinda the point of the whole thing.
    Im not really sure any of what you wrote has any relevance to.........anything, really.

    my point is-

    would she have been disqualified if she hadnt chosen to make it known to the judges? my point here is that the girl went on a publicity hunt, and chose the perfect platform to do it too. i believe they call it trolling, and the media lapped it up.

    what if she had just not said anything about her transformation and had entered like any other contestant? she wouldnt have gotten any publicity when she'd be eliminated is why!

    my point is that this story had less to do with what it is to be transgendered, and more to do with her own craving for publicity and fame. there are many transgendered people who live with their condition on a daily basis and who qiute rightly, before you say it, need a role model to look up to.

    i think however on this occasion, this girl falls a long way short of what a role model should be when time and time again it has been pointed out in this thread that being transgender is a hell of a lot more than just "pack em with silicone and invert the penis- now at least she "looks" like a woman", because that is all one sees when they enter a pageant that is based on one's physical appearance alone, and why i said that all this girl has done is said to young girls that if you dont feel beautiful on the inside, get surgery, then at least you'll look beautiful, and the more appealing you appear on the outside, the more you'll be accepted by society, oh dont mind all that stuff about using your intelligence to make a good career for yourself, it's better to be "accepted", you feel better.

    i wonder whats going to happen to her when she's 50, having based how she feels solely on her looks, because i can't find any articles that give us any insight into her as a person!


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    #371
    KittyeeTrix
    Registered Users Posts: 7,239 ✭✭✭KittyeeTrix


    hondasam wrote: »
    No one wants to me made fun of but it happens. That poster might in another thread find something serious and we could laugh at it, it's just the way it is.

    I understand that hondasam, really I do............However, personally I thought I'd let yer man know what sort of effect his posts had on me personally.

    I'm obviously not speaking for all of Boards AH users, just little ole me:)


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    #372
    Kev_2012
    Closed Accounts Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Kev_2012


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q8OPRTU-O4


    haha reminds me of this! But on another note, people can do whatever they want, but as a straight guy, I would be emotionally scarred if I had "relations" with someone and I found out they used to be male!!! :eek:


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    #373
    Paulie Gualtieri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭Paulie Gualtieri


    44leto wrote: »
    Crikes I only seen one of his "jokes" this guy is a natural comedian, he plays the idiot so well.

    Could you imagine sharing a house with this hilarious guy, those long winter evenings would just fly, but the downside would be all the visits to the hospital from your side splitting with the mirth of his super original jokes.

    This is a sincere post:)

    you just broke my sarc-o-metre :( it just couldnt handle it , does this mean we're not besties anymore? :(


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    #374
    Dimithy
    Registered Users Posts: 351 ✭✭Dimithy


    xsiborg wrote: »
    and why i said that all this girl has done is said to young girls that if you dont feel beautiful on the inside, get surgery, then at least you'll look beautiful, and the more appealing you appear on the outside, the more you'll be accepted by society, oh dont mind all that stuff about using your intelligence to make a good career for yourself, it's better to be "accepted", you feel better.

    i wonder whats going to happen to her when she's 50, having based how she feels solely on her looks, because i can't find any articles that give us any insight into her as a person!

    She's said nothing to young girls. She's said that she is transgender and is not ashamed of it. If she wanted to be accepted, surely the most obvious thing to do would be not to say anything?

    Going by some of the reactions in this thread, people who are different should keep quiet, and make sure us white, heterosexuals, dont have to hear about their problems.


  • Options
    #375
    Mickey H
    Registered Users Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭Mickey H


    Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »
    Balls.

    Cock. :cool:


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    #376
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    Mickey H wrote: »
    Cock. :cool:

    and bull.

    Testcard
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/52/Testcard_F.jpg/240px-Testcard_F.jpg


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    #377
    Flaker
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭Flaker


    Hamhide wrote: »
    I'm transgendered and full time felame.i think this is a great idea and its about time.for anyone who thinks its a little odd and trans girls arnt real women,i suggest you goggle image search ''Bailey Jay'' ^_^

    Felame!! You're insulting a whole gender! I ain't lame I can assure you!


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    #378
    Davyhal
    Registered Users Posts: 455 ✭✭Davyhal


    There are people on here saying that allowing Transgender people into Miss Universe is LGBT rights gone too far.... But looking through what comments are being said on here, I can't help but think that it has still got a very long way to go... Nobody posting on this forum would have a bloody chance with any contestant in the competition, so stop being so offended by this... If you didn't know that the contestant was transgender, would it have affected you in any way at all?


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    #379
    xsiborg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭xsiborg


    Dimithy wrote: »
    She's said nothing to young girls. She's said that she is transgender and is not ashamed of it. If she wanted to be accepted, surely the most obvious thing to do would be not to say anything?

    are you purposely trying to be obtuse? or is it that im conveying my point clearly enough for you?

    pageants and people like this DO influence young girls, and this girl purporting herself to be a role model, goes out of her way to make her point in the most blatant way possible. i have to wonder is there more to the story that we're not seeing, because it seems to me that the fact she is transgender is all she has going for her, and that's the only reason the world's media took any notice of her, because she wanted the attention. its not a giant leap to say that if young girls want attention, then get surgery and then you too can be judged to be beautiful on just your looks alone.

    Dimithy wrote: »
    Going by some of the reactions in this thread, people who are different should keep quiet, and make sure us white, heterosexuals, dont have to hear about their problems.

    i cant speak for others in this thread, i can only speak for myself, and only give my opinion on this issue, which for all i can see has done nothing to further the understanding of what it is to be transgendered, but only served as a tid-bit sniggering piece at how the organisers of the miss universe pageant got trolled by a woman that used to be a man. hilarious, isnt it?

    as for people who are different keeping quiet? well that's not what i meant and you cannnot on the one hand say that transgendered people are no different to the rest of us, and then say that they are different. i was saying that there was no need to make it an issue. we do not live in an ideal world and yes, there are those out there who will judge and point the finger, but if you hold yourself up for that, what do you expect?

    most people couldnt give a fiddlers tbh, but as i said, it's the people who make an issue of their own differences that annoy me. i call it attention seeking, and just because someone is transgendered does not make them the enlightened almighty, they can still be just as much an ass-hat as the next person, and someone can dislike them for being an attention seeking ass-hat, nothing whatsoever to do with them being transgendered. but to the person that is transgendered, they wont see it that way, they'll see the person as an intolerant, ignorant bigot, because it suits them to be just as closed minded!


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    #380
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    xsiborg wrote: »
    my point is-

    would she have been disqualified if she hadnt chosen to make it known to the judges? my point here is that the girl went on a publicity hunt, and chose the perfect platform to do it too. i believe they call it trolling, and the media lapped it up.

    She DIDN'T bring it up though, the organizers found out she was transgender and disquialified her! it's all there in the original articles when she was disqualified, she made no mention of it until after they disqualified her.

    and it's great that she did speak up and challenge this decision, because now the rules have been changed


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    #381
    hondasam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,418 ✭✭✭✭hondasam


    http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=transgender%20miss%20world&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDsQqQIwAw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hindustantimes.com%2FEntertainment%2FFashion%2FIs-the-world-finally-ready-for-a-transgender-Miss-Universe%2FArticle1-839082.aspx&ei=i6aFT7joBNSGhQfC8cmpCA&usg=AFQjCNFyWdJHfr-iLyGI96rqZLmyOZQgYA

    Here is another link for us.


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    #382
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    xsiborg wrote: »
    are you purposely trying to be obtuse? or is it that im conveying my point clearly enough for you?

    pageants and people like this DO influence young girls, and this girl purporting herself to be a role model, goes out of her way to make her point in the most blatant way possible. i have to wonder is there more to the story that we're not seeing, because it seems to me that the fact she is transgender is all she has going for her, and that's the only reason the world's media took any notice of her, because she wanted the attention. its not a giant leap to say that if young girls want attention, then get surgery and then you too can be judged to be beautiful on just your looks alone.




    i cant speak for others in this thread, i can only speak for myself, and only give my opinion on this issue, which for all i can see has done nothing to further the understanding of what it is to be transgendered, but only served as a tid-bit sniggering piece at how the organisers of the miss universe pageant got trolled by a woman that used to be a man. hilarious, isnt it?

    as for people who are different keeping quiet? well that's not what i meant and you cannnot on the one hand say that transgendered people are no different to the rest of us, and then say that they are different. i was saying that there was no need to make it an issue. we do not live in an ideal world and yes, there are those out there who will judge and point the finger, but if you hold yourself up for that, what do you expect?

    most people couldnt give a fiddlers tbh, but as i said, it's the people who make an issue of their own differences that annoy me. i call it attention seeking, and just because someone is transgendered does not make them the enlightened almighty, they can still be just as much an ass-hat as the next person, and someone can dislike them for being an attention seeking ass-hat, nothing whatsoever to do with them being transgendered. but to the person that is transgendered, they wont see it that way, they'll see the person as an intolerant, ignorant bigot, because it suits them to be just as closed minded!

    But what if doing so brings about positive change and helps to end discrimination? If the contestant hadn't protested her disqualification, the contest's rules wouldn't have been changed.

    If gay people hadn't made an issue of their differences, we wouldn't have seen the big changes in gay rights and acceptance of homosexuality that we have now.

    Going by this thread, there's still a lot of unfounded prejudice against transgender people, so if some transgender individuals do make an issue of their identity in order to raise awareness and effect change, is that so bad?


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    #383
    Paulie Gualtieri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 420 ✭✭Paulie Gualtieri


    KittyeeTrix wrote: »
    I understand that hondasam, really I do............However, personally I thought I'd let yer man know what sort of effect his posts had on me personally.

    I'm obviously not speaking for all of Boards AH users, just little ole me:)

    just saying , I didnt set out to upset or annoy and if I did , then apologies.


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    #384
    xsiborg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭xsiborg


    Links234 wrote: »
    She DIDN'T bring it up though, the organizers found out she was transgender and disquialified her! it's all there in the original articles when she was disqualified, she made no mention of it until after they disqualified her.

    and it's great that she did speak up and challenge this decision, because now the rules have been changed

    "but to what end though Links?" is my point. was it to see the rules changed, or was it to get attention for herself, thats all where im coming from. i cant help but be skeptical because of the way in which it was done- "transgender person enters a well known and well established beauty contest where it's all about the contestants physical appearance (swimsuit contest anyone?), knowing full well that she'll cause controversy and attract the world's media", hardly shocking news there.

    now contrast that with a person who is living with this condition on a daily basis who isnt in the world's eye and who as you pointed out yourself is subjected to bullying and torment and insults. not once in any of the media reports do we read about these people's stories. i hope somehow you can understand what im saying? im trying to say that transgender people could do with a better role model, one that shows us that its NOT all thats on the outside that counts, and that there is a person inside the exterior appearance.
    The King of Moo wrote: »
    But what if doing so brings about positive change and helps to end discrimination? If the contestant hadn't protested her disqualification, the contest's rules wouldn't have been changed.

    i just dont think Moo this farcical media circus is going to do anything positive in helping people understand what it is to be transgendered. i think its just a titilating puff piece for the tabloid media to point and laugh at how the organisers of a beauty pageant got egg on their faces and now to quieten the media and deflect the attention, they changed the rules to allow transgendered persons to enter the pageant. i dont see this as in any way a "victory" for transgendered persons, i see it as a step backward for ALL women, that they should let themselves be judged on their physical attributes and have their self worth equated to their physical appearance.
    The King of Moo wrote: »
    If gay people hadn't made an issue of their differences, we wouldn't have seen the big changes in gay rights and acceptance of homosexuality that we have now.

    Moo in my honest opinion, gay rights activists confuse me, i dont know a whole lot of gay people, but those that i do know, dont make an issue of their sexuality in the same way that others seem to want to put it out there as if that all they have going for them. gay rights activists see THEMSELVES as different, and it's almost like they want the world to revolve around them, and everyone else should change to suit them, "why should we need to understand straight people, they need to understand US", so to speak. the world doesnt work like that, and half the reason why there is so much intolerance of gay people is not because of their sexual preference, it's because some of them choose to make a point of it, again- as if thats all they have going for them.
    The King of Moo wrote: »
    Going by this thread, there's still a lot of unfounded prejudice against transgender people, so if some transgender individuals do make an issue of their identity in order to raise awareness and effect change, is that so bad?

    going by this thread Moo i would say that perceived prejudice stems half from misunderstanding, and half from not caring and just ripping the píss. this is After Hours after all, and if the OP had wanted a serious discussion they should have posted this in the LGBT forum, instead of having half the LGBT forum who rarely ever post on other issues in After Hours come in here and start laying it out like we're all the intolerant, ignorant and unwashed knuckle draggers in After Hours.

    theres raising awareness Moo, and then there's just getting up people's noses, now which do you think people respond better to, that wont bring out the trolls and the one post wonders hoping to get up other posters backs in return and spoiling the thread for everybody so that they leave, and another thread that could have been good, goes to waste.


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    #385
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    xsiborg wrote: »

    i just dont think Moo this farcical media circus is going to do anything positive in helping people understand what it is to be transgendered. i think its just a titilating puff piece for the tabloid media to point and laugh at how the organisers of a beauty pageant got egg on their faces and now to quieten the media and deflect the attention, they changed the rules to allow transgendered persons to enter the pageant. i dont see this as in any way a "victory" for transgendered persons, i see it as a step backward for ALL women, that they should let themselves be judged on their physical attributes and have their self worth equated to their physical appearance.

    She may not be the best role model in some senses, I agree, but at least she's shown herself willing to stand up for herself and her rights. It might only be a beauty contest, but at least it's a high-profile one which has got people talking about transgender issues, which don't tend to get too much mainstream attention.
    xsiborg wrote: »
    Moo in my honest opinion, gay rights activists confuse me, i dont know a whole lot of gay people, but those that i do know, dont make an issue of their sexuality in the same way that others seem to want to put it out there as if that all they have going for them. gay rights activists see THEMSELVES as different, and it's almost like they want the world to revolve around them, and everyone else should change to suit them, "why should we need to understand straight people, they need to understand US", so to speak. the world doesnt work like that, and half the reason why there is so much intolerance of gay people is not because of their sexual preference, it's because some of them choose to make a point of it, again- as if thats all they have going for them.

    Well I don't think that's so much the case nowadays, but you will still get some extremists.
    But I think in the past, a lot of gay rights activists probably did play up their identity in a stereotypical fashion, as they needed to draw the public's attention.
    That's not so important now, but there is still a lot of anti-gay prejudice in the West, especially in the States. I do think though, that some of the more anti-gay people would only get more entrenched in their prejudice at the sight of things like gay pride parades, so it's probably a vicious circle in some cases.
    xsiborg wrote: »
    going by this thread Moo i would say that perceived prejudice stems half from misunderstanding, and half from not caring and just ripping the píss. this is After Hours after all, and if the OP had wanted a serious discussion they should have posted this in the LGBT forum, instead of having half the LGBT forum who rarely ever post on other issues in After Hours come in here and start laying it out like we're all the intolerant, ignorant and unwashed knuckle draggers in After Hours.

    theres raising awareness Moo, and then there's just getting up people's noses, now which do you think people respond better to, that wont bring out the trolls and the one post wonders hoping to get up other posters backs in return and spoiling the thread for everybody so that they leave, and another thread that could have been good, goes to waste.

    I have to say that there's been a lot of shocking hatred of transgender people in this thread, beyond just typical AH jokes, from two or three posters in particular. I'm not really sure how to deal with people like that except responding strongly and with well-reasoned arguments and facts. That might get up their nose, but sadly I think some of the more extreme cases might be beyond convincing anyway.
    Though it has to be said, the most emotional responses have been from the people opposed to transgender individuals, and the most measured, well-reasoned, fact-filled posts have come from the other side, particularly from some of the transgender people posting.

    As for posting it in the LGBT forum, I see what you mean but I don't think it'd reach as big an audience as it would by posting it here. It's led to a lot of anger, hatred and stupidity by being here, but I think it's best that it's here overall as a lot of people will read it and hopefully have their minds changed or at least become more aware of transgender issues.


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    #386
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    xsiborg wrote: »
    "but to what end though Links?" is my point. was it to see the rules changed, or was it to get attention for herself, thats all where im coming from. i cant help but be skeptical because of the way in which it was done- "transgender person enters a well known and well established beauty contest where it's all about the contestants physical appearance (swimsuit contest anyone?), knowing full well that she'll cause controversy and attract the world's media", hardly shocking news there.

    now contrast that with a person who is living with this condition on a daily basis who isnt in the world's eye and who as you pointed out yourself is subjected to bullying and torment and insults. not once in any of the media reports do we read about these people's stories. i hope somehow you can understand what im saying? im trying to say that transgender people could do with a better role model, one that shows us that its NOT all thats on the outside that counts, and that there is a person inside the exterior appearance.

    *sigh*

    are you seriously entertaining the idea that she somehow masterminded a situation where she knew she was going to get disqualified, just so she could cause a media stir? or as you put it earlier, just to troll? I don't even know how to respond to that on a serious level...

    and you know, I really hate this "don't rock the boat" attitude. what do you think she should have done, just shut up about it?

    and I think it's extremely low of you to make some kind of appeal to me along the lines of "aren't you embarrassed by her being in the spotlight?" well shock horror, I'm not. I think it's a fantastic thing that she's done, and the outcome is going to make things a hell of a lot easier for the next transgender woman who may want to compete in this contest in future. is she a good role model? it doesn't matter.

    this is how change is enacted. just like when Lana Lawless challenged the LPGA over her disqualification. or when Vandy Beth Glenn took her employers to court. or when Liouse Hannon did the same here in Ireland. that's how things are done, and if people didn't get up and challenge things and fight for their rights, we'd be nowhere.


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    #387
    Links234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,944 ✭✭✭✭Links234


    oh, and some of you might find this interesting, 2 years ago, a transgender man won the "Mr. Leather" competition


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    #388
    44leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,137 ✭✭✭44leto


    xsiborg wrote: »
    "but to what end though Links?" is my point. was it to see the rules changed, or was it to get attention for herself, thats all where im coming from. i cant help but be skeptical because of the way in which it was done- "transgender person enters a well known and well established beauty contest where it's all about the contestants physical appearance (swimsuit contest anyone?), knowing full well that she'll cause controversy and attract the world's media", hardly shocking news there.
    Is that a reason why she shouldn't, so she is breaking down barriers, do you know black people also had to breakdown those same barrier.

    now contrast that with a person who is living with this condition on a daily basis who isnt in the world's eye and who as you pointed out yourself is subjected to bullying and torment and insults. not once in any of the media reports do we read about these people's stories. i hope somehow you can understand what im saying? im trying to say that transgender people could do with a better role model, one that shows us that its NOT all thats on the outside that counts, and that there is a person inside the exterior appearance.
    Yes they do and I could link a lot of stories but wasn;t there a recent film Boys don't cry, the one Hiliary swank wonn the oscar for.



    i just dont think Moo this farcical media circus is going to do anything positive in helping people understand what it is to be transgendered. i think its just a titilating puff piece for the tabloid media to point and laugh at how the organisers of a beauty pageant got egg on their faces and now to quieten the media and deflect the attention, they changed the rules to allow transgendered persons to enter the pageant. i dont see this as in any way a "victory" for transgendered persons, i see it as a step backward for ALL women, that they should let themselves be judged on their physical attributes and have their self worth equated to their physical appearance.
    Maybe but it gets a debate going which is good and yes those competitions are pathetic, I agree.



    Moo in my honest opinion, gay rights activists confuse me, i dont know a whole lot of gay people, but those that i do know, dont make an issue of their sexuality in the same way that others seem to want to put it out there as if that all they have going for them. gay rights activists see THEMSELVES as different, and it's almost like they want the world to revolve around them, and everyone else should change to suit them, "why should we need to understand straight people, they need to understand US", so to speak. the world doesnt work like that, and half the reason why there is so much intolerance of gay people is not because of their sexual preference, it's because some of them choose to make a point of it, again- as if thats all they have going for them.
    On the contrary there is a lot of tolerance to gay people now, most don't give a sh!t, this state of affairs is because of these gay activists, they have done incredible work. Remember it was only decriminalised in Ireland in 1993, they still have a bit to go and I support them.



    going by this thread Moo i would say that perceived prejudice stems half from misunderstanding, and half from not caring and just ripping the píss. this is After Hours after all, and if the OP had wanted a serious discussion they should have posted this in the LGBT forum, instead of having half the LGBT forum who rarely ever post on other issues in After Hours come in here and start laying it out like we're all the intolerant, ignorant and unwashed knuckle draggers in After Hours.
    True, but that doesn't mean that we all have to put up with the hate and transphobia without at least answering back.


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    #389
    stephen_n
    Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    And if you graft a tail on to them can they enter Crufts ?

    Let's choose common sense over ridiculous political correctness.

    And if they graft a brain on to you would you be able to enter school? clearly you need an education.


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    #390
    Jimoslimos
    Registered Users Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Jimoslimos


    I was going to hold my opinions for fear of offending some here but well....

    1) I have no problem with Trans people entering/winning Miss Universe, since it's just a subjective popularity contest, no different to X-factor et al.

    2) I don't think Transgendered people should be allowed to compete in the Olympics or any other athletic sporting competition. Why? It's difficult to quantify the exact advantage a M2F transgender person would have by living with 10 times the normal female testosterone level for many years (an anabolic steroid) before starting on female hormones. Plus the differently shaped body to begin with, especially hip width.

    But non-athletic games, snooker, darts, etc. No problem, in fact I can't see why these are segregated in the first place.

    3) Surgery: To a point I can understand why breast augmentation, whether that is by hormones or implants, is important to TGs.....but should the state pay for my GF to have breast surgery if she feels low self-esteem because she has small breasts?

    As for genital realignment surgery, I'm confused by posters here stating that gender is hardwired into the brain, whereas sex is physical. Surely then it is a minor issue whether a woman has a penis or vagina in her pants. Also given that 99.9% of her interactions as a woman with other people will be clothed (and I don't go sticking my hand in peoples crotches when I meet them!).


    As for finding them attractive, yeah superficially they can look as hot as most other females, although the usual lack of curvy hips is missing. At the end of the day I'd still prefer a genetically born female (XX), one perhaps the reproductive angle (subconciously even if I don't want kids it is always there) and two a proper vagina; (and apologies for being crude) I think I'd prefer the smell/taste/feel of a real one - don't think this can be adequately recreated by surgery.


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    #391
    xsiborg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,635 ✭✭✭xsiborg


    Links234 wrote: »
    *sigh*

    are you seriously entertaining the idea that she somehow masterminded a situation where she knew she was going to get disqualified, just so she could cause a media stir? or as you put it earlier, just to troll? I don't even know how to respond to that on a serious level...

    fair enough then Links, i'll accept that you might think she might not be clever enough, although to be be honest, it wouldn't have neeeded a whole lot of brains to enter a beauty contest that solely concentrates on one's physical appearance, not to mention the fact that she instantly had a celebrity lawyer on hand to take her case.
    Links234 wrote: »
    and you know, I really hate this "don't rock the boat" attitude. what do you think she should have done, just shut up about it?

    she shouldn't have tried entering in the first place. all she rocked was a few pages in the tabloids, she'll be forgotten about again in a week as soon as this thread dies down too.
    Links234 wrote: »
    and I think it's extremely low of you to make some kind of appeal to me along the lines of "aren't you embarrassed by her being in the spotlight?" well shock horror, I'm not. I think it's a fantastic thing that she's done, and the outcome is going to make things a hell of a lot easier for the next transgender woman who may want to compete in this contest in future. is she a good role model? it doesn't matter.

    i never made any such appeal Links, much less asked you were you embarrassed, so where you got that from i really dont know!

    now, how is the outcome going to make it any easier for any transgender woman to compete in this contest? it's not, and stop kidding yourself, the media are only interested in pointing and laughing and exhibiting "the freak". they couldn't give a monkeys for the rights or feelings or otherwise of transexual people.

    and is she a good role model? it matters a HELL of a lot, because people are influenced by her behaviour, and to get attention for yourself by parading how you see YOURSELF as diffferent, is telling people that if you want people to notice you- get in their faces! its the same as that stupid brick woman saying how women are afraid of her because she's too beautiful! i'd call it deluded, and i'd suggest there are far better ways of changing the world than kicking up a hissy fit because you are disqualified from a contest that judges you solely based on your appearance.

    or perhaps did you miss the part where i said transgendered and transexual people all over this thread have pointed out time and again how there's more to being female than just the external appearance?
    Links234 wrote: »
    this is how change is enacted. just like when Lana Lawless challenged the LPGA over her disqualification. or when Vandy Beth Glenn took her employers to court. or when Liouse Hannon did the same here in Ireland. that's how things are done, and if people didn't get up and challenge things and fight for their rights, we'd be nowhere.

    i hate to burst your bubble Links, but you still ARE nowhere, not least in terms of how trans people are viewed in the media and by society anyway. and you wont BE anywhere for a very long time either if you continue to hold this idiot up as a role model for trans people. you only have to look at mainstream media to see that the media still considers trans people "freaks", and not only that Links, but now not only have they moved on from reporting about trans adults, but these days it's all about the trans kids, you'll no doubt have seen headlines and programmes like "my seven year old is transgender", and then you hear about how they want to trans from M2F and so on.

    do you REALLY think Links the media are doing your cause any favors? they're not, and neither has this attention seeking idiot. she may be trans, but that doesnt exempt her from being an idiot at the same time!


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