Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

Benny Cake · 09-04-2012 01:46PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah you're right. HEC level players like Damien Browne, Dominic Ryan, Rhys Ruddock, Fionn Carr and Dave Kearney would definitely have outshone him if they had played.

What Heineken Cup level players? None of the guys you listed were even in the Leinster 23 this weekend

09-04-2012 01:50PM

Benny Cake wrote: »

What Heineken Cup level players? None of the guys you listed were even in the Leinster 23 this weekend

That old nugget. Do you honestly believe that there are only 23 "HEC" level players at Leinster?

Are there only 22 "International quality" players available for Ireland?

irishbucsfan · 09-04-2012 01:53PM

Benny Cake wrote: »

What Heineken Cup level players? None of the guys you listed were even in the Leinster 23 this weekend

They have all played HEC level for Leinster this season, except for Ryan.

Benny Cake · 09-04-2012 01:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That old nugget. Do you honestly believe that there are only 23 "HEC" level players at Leinster?

Are there only 22 "International quality" players available for Ireland?

And do you honestly believe Deasy has what it takes to start at 10 for Munster in the Heineken cup? This is, after all, what we were discussing.

09-04-2012 01:55PM

Benny Cake wrote: »

And do you honestly believe Deasy has what it takes to start at 10 for Munster in the Heineken cup? This is, after all, what we were discussing.

No idea, wasn't at the game he shone at.

Would prefer to be silent on the matter than wrong.

Benny Cake · 09-04-2012 01:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

No idea, wasn't at the game he shone at.

Would prefer to be silent on the matter than wrong.

Well I've seen plenty of him, none of which gives me confidence he will ever be anything more than a bit-part player.

yimrsg · 09-04-2012 02:09PM

Benny Cake wrote: »

Well I've seen plenty of him, none of which gives me confidence he will ever be anything more than a bit-part player.

Players like Dave Kearney, Ryan and Ruddock looked like they were out of their depth in that match, only Auva'a really shone for Leinster. Deasy didn't ignite his backline but he nailed most of his kicks and I can't think of many things he did wrong. Granted I haven't seen that much of him but on the evidence I saw in the semi-final he could come good. He mightn't ever reach the standard for international selection but I wouldn't discount him totally for making the bench in the HC. If Munster get a top quality backs coach to improve their youngsters in the back division then I'd be far more confident in him (and others) making HC squads.

irishbucsfan · 09-04-2012 02:30PM

Benny Cake wrote: »

And do you honestly believe Deasy has what it takes to start at 10 for Munster in the Heineken cup? This is, after all, what we were discussing.

I think he should be givena chance. So should Keatley. They need to start somewhere.

Benny Cake · 09-04-2012 02:35PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think he should be givena chance. So should Keatley. They need to start somewhere.

I agree on Keatley, Deasy however, has been with us since 2009, played close to 40 times, and has never looked worthy of consistent starts.

dougieruggie · 09-04-2012 03:05PM

Some harsh realities. You can call me biased or disregard any or all of this but its the truth.

Munster are in serious trouble.

Outside of their foreign imports in the front row Munster are severely lacking. Archer can't scrummage and Ryan is distinctively average and injury prone. Kilcoyne is an uncertainity.

In the second row Munster have depth with POC,DOC and Ryan. This is probably their strongest area to be honest.

Munster are in serious trouble in the backrow. Coughlan is good but one dimensional. POM is showing a lot of promise but is very overrated, hes a hard grafter without being exceptional. TOD is struggling to be at even ML level in my opinion and is going on 26. Paddy Butler is still hyped to the heavens over two U20 6 Nations performances two years ago but he hasn't shown anything to suggest hes going to be class. If Munster's future backrow is 6.TOD 7.POM 8.Coughlan/Butler then they simply won't be able to compete in europe. Going forward I think if Munster are relying on POM then they're in trouble because in my opinion hes not that good that he can offset the lack of quality in a backrow containing TOD and Coughlan.

Scrum-half is another problem for Munster. I'll be derided for this but Connor Murray is a poor player. Hes TOL.2 and makes a number of mistakes in most of the games he plays in. Slow, poor decision making and gets distracted. TOL is leaving but in his place is Peter Stringer who is probably worse. Williams has shown nothing to suggest hes even at Rabo level.

Outhalf is anothr massive problem for Munster. ROG has been past it for the last 18 months and needs to be ruthlessly culled by Munster. Hes playing so badly right now that there is literally no harm in giving Keatley a run of games to see if he is up to it. Munster management need to step up and tell ROG that hes surplus to requirements. I don't think Keatley is ever going to amount to anything and think Munster might need to look elsewhere. Still though, he should be given a run of games to prove himself, he cant possibly be worse than ROG.

Munster have problems in the back three as well in my opinion. No one knows how Howlett will return from injury and its uncertain. Hurley is patently not HC level, Zebo for all his tries has serious deficiencies in defense and for all the hype of Felix Jones, my personal opinion is that hes not that good at all. Johnne Murphy is Rabo level in my opinion. Moving Earls back to wing will solve some of these problems but Zebo needs to be read the riot act in regards to his tackling and positioning. Hes very good outside of that but unless he addresses those problems I can't see him ever being a HC performer. His attempted tackle today was shocking. Once again a back three of Earls-Jones-Zebo looks exciting but just isn't solid and only Earls so far looks to be HC class.

The centre situation for Munster is also in dire straits. There is no 13 outside of Keith Earls whose best position is quite obviously 11. At 12 Munster have Downey coming in who in my opinion is completely one dimensional. JJ Hanrahahn looks decent but like Macken he just doesn't look like he'll be another D'arcy in his prime. Munster have papered over the cracks by bringing in a NIQ and Downey but they need to start producing centres. And quickly.

I would make the following suggestions for Munster:
1. Sign Kevin McLaughlin and one of Dominic Ryan or Rhys Ruddock
2. Sign John Andreas and Loughney
3. Sign a scrum-half, possibly Boss
4. Try to get Ian Madigan ASAP
5. A double signing of Fergus McFadden and Eoin O'Malley
6. Try get Fionn Carr

Obviously Munster won't be able to achieve all of these but even if they got 2 out of the 6 they'd be immensely stronger for it.

CiaranMT · 09-04-2012 03:15PM

Sign half of the Leinster squad... Right.

Fishooks12 · 09-04-2012 03:16PM

dougieruggie wrote: »

Some harsh realities. You can call me biased or disregard any or all of this but its the truth.

Munster are in serious trouble.

Outside of their foreign imports in the front row Munster are severely lacking. Archer can't scrummage and Ryan is distinctively average and injury prone. Kilcoyne is an uncertainity.

In the second row Munster have depth with POC,DOC and Ryan. This is probably their strongest area to be honest.

Munster are in serious trouble in the backrow. Coughlan is good but one dimensional. POM is showing a lot of promise but is very overrated, hes a hard grafter without being exceptional. TOD is struggling to be at even ML level in my opinion and is going on 26. Paddy Butler is still hyped to the heavens over two U20 6 Nations performances two years ago but he hasn't shown anything to suggest hes going to be class. If Munster's future backrow is 6.TOD 7.POM 8.Coughlan/Butler then they simply won't be able to compete in europe. Going forward I think if Munster are relying on POM then they're in trouble because in my opinion hes not that good that he can offset the lack of quality in a backrow containing TOD and Coughlan.

Scrum-half is another problem for Munster. I'll be derided for this but Connor Murray is a poor player. Hes TOL.2 and makes a number of mistakes in most of the games he plays in. Slow, poor decision making and gets distracted. TOL is leaving but in his place is Peter Stringer who is probably worse. Williams has shown nothing to suggest hes even at Rabo level.

Outhalf is anothr massive problem for Munster. ROG has been past it for the last 18 months and needs to be ruthlessly culled by Munster. Hes playing so badly right now that there is literally no harm in giving Keatley a run of games to see if he is up to it. Munster management need to step up and tell ROG that hes surplus to requirements. I don't think Keatley is ever going to amount to anything and think Munster might need to look elsewhere. Still though, he should be given a run of games to prove himself, he cant possibly be worse than ROG.

Munster have problems in the back three as well in my opinion. No one knows how Howlett will return from injury and its uncertain. Hurley is patently not HC level, Zebo for all his tries has serious deficiencies in defense and for all the hype of Felix Jones, my personal opinion is that hes not that good at all. Johnne Murphy is Rabo level in my opinion. Moving Earls back to wing will solve some of these problems but Zebo needs to be read the riot act in regards to his tackling and positioning. Hes very good outside of that but unless he addresses those problems I can't see him ever being a HC performer. His attempted tackle today was shocking. Once again a back three of Earls-Jones-Zebo looks exciting but just isn't solid and only Earls so far looks to be HC class.

The centre situation for Munster is also in dire straits. There is no 13 outside of Keith Earls whose best position is quite obviously 11. At 12 Munster have Downey coming in who in my opinion is completely one dimensional. JJ Hanrahahn looks decent but like Macken he just doesn't look like he'll be another D'arcy in his prime. Munster have papered over the cracks by bringing in a NIQ and Downey but they need to start producing centres. And quickly.

I would make the following suggestions for Munster:
1. Sign Kevin McLaughlin and one of Dominic Ryan or Rhys Ruddock
2. Sign John Andreas and Loughney
3. Sign a scrum-half, possibly Boss
4. Try to get Ian Madigan ASAP
5. A double signing of Fergus McFadden and Eoin O'Malley
6. Try get Fionn Carr

Obviously Munster won't be able to achieve all of these but even if they got 2 out of the 6 they'd be immensely stronger for it.

I've decided to put everything that is inaccurate, ill-informed or just plain idiotic in bold

Congrats Douggie, your veiled attacks at everything Munster have culminated in one of the worst posts/veiled flame I've read on this forum

Some of that rubbish is laughable tbh

Clegg · 09-04-2012 03:18PM

Munster have signed Casey Laulala, a 13 who is better than Mc Fadden and O'Malley. And Macken is in no way an inside centre, he is a 13 who has been played at 12 due to injuries. He'll be Leinsters 13 in a few years time, if he fulfills his vast potential.

Ruddock has signed a new contract with Leinster and there is no way that Madigan or Ryan will be leaving any time soon. Mc Fadden is now a regular in the 22 and Munster have signed a new 12, so he won't be leaving either. You could do with looking some things up before you start posting.

Fishooks12 · 09-04-2012 03:21PM

Clegg wrote: »

Munster have signed Casey Laulala, a 13 who is better than Mc Fadden and O'Malley. And Macken is in no way an inside centre, he is a 13 who has been played at 12 due to injuries. He'll be Leinsters 13 in a few years time, if he fulfills his vast potential.

Ruddock has signed a new contract with Leinster and there is no way that Madigan or Ryan will be leaving any time soon. Mc Fadden is now a regular in the 22 and Munster have signed a new 12, so he won't be leaving either. You could do with looking some things up before you start posting.

Or just not posting at all!

Calling for the signature of Fionn Carr was loltastic

Podge_irl · 09-04-2012 03:23PM

Munster need a new coach and a new fly half.

They are certainly not in dire straits though it will take a good coach to get them playing to their full potential. They certainly don't need to replace half the team.

dougieruggie · 09-04-2012 03:23PM

Fionn Carr has shown lots of promise. I think he is certainly preferable to Hurley for example.

Fishooks12 · 09-04-2012 03:27PM

dougieruggie wrote: »

Fionn Carr has shown lots of promise. I think he is certainly preferable to Hurley for example.

Fionn Carr is nearly 28, which is funny because your views on TOD suggest that at 26 he won't get any better so why do you think Carr will?

He's a good finisher but has a defensive game that I don't see him remedying at this stage of his career

But that's beside the point considering the last thing Munster need to sign is a winger

dougieruggie · 09-04-2012 03:29PM

Because Carr has already shown hes better than Hurley and J.Murphy.

Hagz · 09-04-2012 03:29PM

dougieruggie wrote: »

Fionn Carr has shown lots of promise. I think he is certainly preferable to Hurley for example.

Earls and Howlett are fantastic players to have on the wing. Backed up by Zebo and O'Dea who both have a lot of potential based on their performances this year.

Compare it with a team like Ulster who will have Trimble and Bowe backed up by Gilroy there is not that much of difference if at all in terms of quality.

CiaranMT · 09-04-2012 03:29PM

dougieruggie wrote: »

Fionn Carr has shown lots of promise. I think he is certainly preferable to Hurley for example.

Why's that?

I don't see why Munster wouldn't prefer a wing/full-back who has experience winning the HEC, who is strong in defence and has developed a great offloading game in the last season, over someone who's been warming the bench for Leinster, has little big-game experience, is exclusively a wing, and who is only effective in one area of his game, ie in attack? He certainly isn't anywhere near Hurley in defence or in terms of awareness going back.

CiaranMT · 09-04-2012 03:30PM

dougieruggie wrote: »

Because Carr has already shown hes better than Hurley and J.Murphy.

In one facet of the game alone.

Foxtrol · 09-04-2012 03:31PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Fionn Carr is nearly 28, which is funny because your views on TOD suggest that at 26 he won't get any better so why do you think Carr will?

He's a good finisher but has a defensive game that I don't see him remedying at this stage of his career

But that's beside the point considering the last thing Munster need to sign is a winger

Ironic that you are moaning about inaccuracies, Fionn Carr is 26 and wont be 27 until December.

CiaranMT · 09-04-2012 03:31PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Munster need a new coach and a new fly half.

They are certainly not in dire straits though it will take a good coach to get them playing to their full potential. They certainly don't need to replace half the team.

We need a new backs coach. Dutchy clearly isn't doing the business.

Fishooks12 · 09-04-2012 03:31PM

dougieruggie wrote: »

Because Carr has already shown hes better than Hurley and J.Murphy.

When was this exactly?

Anything to back up the rubbish?

Clegg · 09-04-2012 03:32PM

Fionn Carr is 26. He was released by Leinster a few years ago because they felt he wouldn't be good enough for the highest level, and they have been proven right. He isn't considered good enough to be a regular in the HEC squad.

He is great to watch in attack but he is a very poor defender. He is prone to drifting out of defence and he positioning is awful. You don't see it on TV but when youre at the match you can see Nacewa constantly shouting at him to get back into position.

Podge_irl · 09-04-2012 03:38PM

CiaranMT wrote: »

We need a new backs coach. Dutchy clearly isn't doing the business.

Are Munster getting a new backs coach next year or is Holland staying on?

CiaranMT wrote: »

Why's that?

I don't see why Munster wouldn't prefer a wing/full-back who has experience winning the HEC, who is strong in defence and has developed a great offloading game in the last season, over someone who's been warming the bench for Leinster

He's not even doing that.

CiaranMT · 09-04-2012 03:40PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

Are Munster getting a new backs coach next year or is Holland staying on?

Afaik he's contracted to stay on.

Fishooks12 · 09-04-2012 03:44PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Ironic that you are moaning about inaccuracies, Fionn Carr is 26 and wont be 27 until December.

TBH I thought he was 27

I was responding to a post that was nothing but another in a series of attacks by an anti Munster poster looking for trouble

I never get on my high horse over inaccuracy, everyone is human, including myself obviously

dougieruggie · 09-04-2012 03:54PM

Fishooks12 wrote: »

TBH I thought he was 27

I was responding to a post that was nothing but another in a series of attacks by an anti Munster poster looking for trouble

It's not a 'series of attacks' its the truth. Munster are crashing out of the QF and have been very lucky to qualify in the first place. Last year they didn't make it past the group stages and were even dumped out of the Amlin.

There are serious problems. Outside of the starting props Munster have no one. A signing is needed and in my opinion Loughney and Andreas would be perfect.

I think they are very lightweight in the backrow and that they need another top quality player. I mentioned McLaughlin/Ryan/Ruddock because they all can play 6 and one of them is not needed by Leinster so it makes sense to mention them.

The only decent Irish scrumhalf right now outside of Reddan is Boss. Thats why I mentioned him. Since Leinster have Reddan they could depart with Boss. In hindsight though I should have mentioned Marshall as well who I completely forgot about.

I mentioned McFadden and O'Malley because 1. They are IQ 2.They are not starters for Leinster and could conceivably go to get gametime and 3.They are very promising players. While Munster have made 2 great signings I am looking to McFadden and O'Malley as Munster's future. I mentioned JJ Hanrahan but I don't see him as being better than McFadden.

Then I mentioned Carr because I feel Munster are a little bit bare in the back 3 IF Howlett does not recover from injury. Carr is a proven try scoring machine at Rabo Direct and his defence is no worse than Zebos. In my opinion he could be alot more effective than Hurley or Murphy. Its a gamble but one I think should be pursued.

But yeah, see what you want. My post was about POSSIBLE signings for Munster of IRISH players. Those players are the ones that I deemed to be possible to acquire. 5 of them happen to be Leinster players and 2 of them are not. Thats just the way it is. I wasnt trying to push an agenda.

Podge_irl · 09-04-2012 03:59PM

CiaranMT wrote: »

Afaik he's contracted to stay on.

Well hopefully the new coach goes over his head somewhat to sort out that mess. Having that much possession and territory and creating so little is pretty damning.

Munster's halfbacks are a serious problem. I think Murray has the potential and raw skills to become a very good player with good coaching (which he is clearly not getting) but Munster need to bite the bullet on ROG.

Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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